Can someone explain the appeal of Nier?

Seeing the announcement of the new Nier game, I always wanted actually know what's the deal? I've played the original and always thought it was the definition of a 5/10 game. I enjoyed the story and music, but found the actual playing of the game is super mediocre to poor. So when I hear people give glowing praise, I'm super confused! Without trying to be rude, what gives?

BTW, I'm actually interest in the new one as Platinum is handling the playing part and I love me some Platinum.

because some people find story more important than gameplay? I loved Persona 2 but I fucking hated playing it, but the story was so good that I didn't care all that much.

(and Nier is my favorite game of all time, fwiw)

Plus, to call Nier's gameplay poor is stretching it, imo. It's not great to be sure, but it's not bad.

I don't know, I didn't think it did well enough to merit another one so... should be interesting to see what comes of this one

I never had any interest in playing it myself, but I've seen some weird and crazy stuff from this game. If I didn't have an insane backlog I'd end up checking it out. Maybe in the future, we'll see.

I've never heard of Nier before but that teaser for the new one has peeked my interest.

@viewtiful: Bullet hell character action is pretty unique and fun. Wasn't used nearly enough in the game but whatever.

Also people like insane nonsensical Japanese stories. Just look at kingdom hearts.

Also the soundtrack was really good

I dunno, they did a lot of fun stuff with the gameplay/how you played. The main gameplay was basically just Dynasty Warriors but without the flashy stuff, and that was obviously pretty dull, but then there was that mansion where it was basically Resident Evil, under the mansion where it went into an isometric RPG viewpoint, the tree quests that were like text-only RPGs, that minecart level where it became a top-down shooter, that desert temple than plays with Zelda stuff, and when they started turning the boss battles into what was essentially a 3rd-person bullet hell shooter was all great stuff. And you can drift on a boar!

Plus that soundtrack is playing the whole time so it didn't really matter when, say, there was that really boring section in the factory where you had to grind items, because that dungeon had amazing music.

The story is pretty unique, goes to some very interesting places (especially in NG+ onwards) and I've never played a game (well, aside from the director's other stuff) that had a story/cast of characters quite like this one.

And goddamn that soundtrack is fantastic.

From what I understand, Nier basically contains Metal Gear Solid 2 amounts of crazy in its story and gameplay and some people were way into that.

I personally really enjoyed a lot of Nier, but then I died off and stopped playing at a certain point once the constant fetch quests just became too damn much for me to deal with.

The story is incredible

It does some really awesome and unique stuff with it's story, and the music is amazing. The gameplay was just so "bleh".

The next game, with the help of Platinum, should be a banger.

I definitely agree with you; playing the actual game was what made me put off finishing Nier for years on end. It's boring, repetitive, easy, and forces you into a lot of combat situations in order to do the things you need to get the final endings. My experience with that first (somewhat rough) game is exactly what makes me so excited, though. The world of Nier--from its characters to its FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC soundtrack--is incredibly strong, with plenty of neat tricks to keep players guessing throughout. Its main weakness? The gameplay, something that Platinum is really solid on.

While I think that Drakengard 3 (another game from many of the people who worked on Nier) managed to bring about "better" gameplay, it was still hindered by a bunch of issues like framerate and depth of its systems. Looking back at older Drakengard games as well, none of them have ever played great but all have crazy worlds and storylines. The idea of a Nier sequel that manages to have some fun combat, along with the fantastic world of a Cavia title, is an extremely exciting one. That allows the game director to hopefully focus entirely on the things that make his titles unique, while also managing to bring about a game that plays really solidly as well.

It's also important to realize that Cavia was essentially dead, and the poor sales of Drakengard 3 pretty much seemed to guarantee another title from them would never get made. It's a complete surprise, rivaling some of the fanservicey announcements found at Sony's conference in impact, if not in general relevance.

@top8gamer: "piqued"

The Insanity of Nier makes MGS2 look like a fly on the wall. For example Nier actually ends up erasing all of the player's save data if they see the "best" ending. Said "best" ending leads to a character fucking a corpse of a young boy who resembles the MC.

Uhhhhhhh...

@spunkyhepanda: That's not even the most fucked up thing that happens.

Nier has layers that aren't apparent at all until New Game+ stuff but it isn't a great game, its really interesting though.

@bocam: Uh, you sure about that last part? I've never encountered anything about that, even reading up on that Grimoire Nier thing.

story was pretty interesting yeah.

NIER has a really great story, one of the all-time best soundtracks, and stunningly mediocre combat. It's not especially long for an RPG, so it's definitely worth playing for the good aspects of the game.

A game with clunky and mediocre gameplay, a fantastic story, and hands down the most ambitious and amazing ending to be found anywhere.

To understand the insanity of Nier, you need to stard with the fact that this game is the canonical sequel to one of the endings in the game Drakenguard where the protagonist and his dragon gets transported to the modern day, fights an End of Evangelion boss with singing, and is then shot down by JSDF fighter jets.

You then need to end with the fact that the moment you 100% the game is the moment the story progresses in a way that causes all your saves to be erased, and you are prevented from creating another game file under the same name.

I wish Roger Ebert got to play Nier so he could see how games can be art

OST filled with great pieces like this and an AMAZING story. Nier is the most flawed gaming masterpiece I have ever seen. If Nier had bayonetta combat, it might have been the best game I have ever played.

Pretty sure that spoilery bit didn't happen... at least not in the NA version of Nier. Or maybe it did, but it was something you had to read in between the lines to get. But I'm pretttttyyyyy sure that didn't happen.

Nier is such a tragedy. It's got a great sound track, a decent story and some super-interesting game play ideas. I really want a 3D bullet hell game done right some time!

Then there are the awful graphics, boring-ass repetitive, poorly implemented game play and an ending that makes you jump through some seriously tedious hoops to get it all. The final-final-final-final ending is pretty fucking awesome, but fuck playing through the second half of the game four times to get there.

The idea of a sequel with Platinum handling the game play sounds pretty fucking great. Though, I'm not sure how well Cavia - who makes games with intentionally impenetrable game play - and Platinum - who makes games with the most intentionally fun game play ever - are going to work together...

Cavia's been dead for half a decade. I don't think you have much to worry about.

@esrever: @teddie:Track 2 of the canon Nier Drama CD

Sure the gameplay was mediocre but they did enough interesting things with the levels and the boss fights to hold my attention, and everything else about it was fucking awesome.

@teddie said:

Presumably whatever remains of Cavia would also be working on it. Unless Platinum straight-up bought the IP.

It spawned Moon man.

It's a game that I wanted to play, but couldn't find a copy. I was hoping they would bring it to PSN....

@viewtiful: As most people said, it had a really good story if you were willing to put the time into it. The gameplay was mediocre but I did appreciate that they tried fun things with camera angles - in that one instance the game literally transforms into a sidescroller.

I would say overall it's like a 7/10 but it has a ton of heart and some pretty crazy stuff going for it that despite the flawed gameplay makes a lot of people think back on it fondly. I definitely have positive feelings about it looking back, but I also remember thinking large portions of the game were a slog to get through - and I did actually beat it multiple times for the different endings.

Platinum are developing it, but Square's the one publishing it (Square owns the IP). But here's probably the answer you want for the original question:

"For this new Nier, we kept an action RPG mindset and thought, this time we want to hit out a great, high-level JRPG, so we're going to stick to one character design," Saito added.

"Platinum is great at creating action games, and we've asked them to make things a little more simplified, slightly. At first I thought it was going to be a battle-heavy action game, but luckily for us, a lot of Platinum Games' staff members really respect Nier and took it to heart, and understand the project.

"We're really fortunate in that they essentially took the battle system and the game design of the original Nier and added Platinum Games-type elements on top of it to make this hybrid if you will. It's not like it's a completely new game, they really have respect for the previous game."

More here.

And as far as I can find, Cavia got scattered into the wind, with the majority going freelance or merging with other studios. Even the guy directing this new game is just freelancing now.

Sorry to OP for getting off topic with this.

Nier is a game that doesn't play very well, but has a really interesting story, world and characters and a whole payload of gameplay ideas, very few of which are executed very well. It's a really neat mishmash of those ideas, though. Amazing soundtrack, too (like, one of the best ever). It's the kind of game you love for those things it did do well, for its ambition and what it could have been.

But as a game you play moment to moment? It's not super good. But damn, Nier is fucking cool.

The idea of a Nier game from the same director, developed by a team who make games that play great? That's fucking exciting.

To me the game had appealing aesthetics, an original premise, an interesting, intriguing and surprising story, and varied and functional gameplay. Plus the beginning was insane and intense.

Also the opening cinematic was crazy!

It's not a very good game mechanically - it's not abysmal, it's just kinda mediocre, with cool ideas (switching perspective, the way magic works) being kinda wasted. But it has a fantastic narrative filled with colorful, well-realized and atypical characters and it does some amazing stuff with the nature of video games and how the mechanics, or even technical traits of games, can be used to tell a story. It's among those few games the like of Metal Gear Solid, Planescape Torment, Mother or a selection of indies which really try to use the unique aspects of games (like player agency or again, the way we even interact with them on a physical level) to tell a story, and a story that's just damn good to boot.

Hell, I'd say it's worth it just for the character of Kaine, one of the best female characters in video games - and not just because Laura Bailey delivers the best performance of her career.

People got excited for a Nier 2 because it promises to marry Yoko Taro's/Cavia's direction, script and ideas with the polished, smart, dynamic gameplay of Platinum.

Any game that you have to reply like 5 times to get the whole story can do naughty things to itself. Especially when it's not fun to play. Maybe this one will fix that 2nd point, who knows.

@alexw00d: Yah but in this case not only did the subsequent playthroughs really quick but all the boss fights and encounters added a lot more to the narrative. It was actually kind of exciting to see the same scenarios again with the added "twist" of the plot.

Yeah, someone totally can

/shameless self-promotion

(also spoilers)

Nier is such an odd fucking game and it does things with its story that I've not seen any other developer try do. It isn't necessarily fun, but it fucking crawls under your skin and fucks with your mind in ways you would never think possible. It's so damn bizarre and out there that it's a really unforgettable and magical experience.......and now I want to play the original Drakengard....or maybe I shouldn't. Maybe someone will put a gun to my head and just make me watch a good LP of it. Oh and the soundtrack. Best soundtrack in a video game I have probably ever heard.

Also, I really need to play Drakengard 3.

I never played Nier, but based solely on the quick look I thought it looked boring as hell. Reading some of these comments makes it seem like there might be a decent game in there, but none of that was apparent in the quick look. People need to learn how to make game intros fun.

Because they molded the game around the soundtrack, not the other way around. You can definitely say the gameplay took a hit, but it's a more than fair trade for the touching story and beautiful, made-up-language soundtrack.

PS the English lyrics to Ashes of Dreams are depressing as fuck and, much like Nier itself, reminded me of the ending of Enslaved. I wasn't entranced by Enslaved as others were, but goddamn Trip's last line of dialog was more human than the entirety of other games.

@cubidog1 Come on, dude, the last few years have given us a bounty of "not fun" games. Stuff like Papers Please and Cart Life aren't "fun" from a gameplay perspective, but it's worth it for the immersive experience that inspire legitimate emotional responses.

Well...I never finished all the playthoughs needed to get that ending. I might just have to now.

I would disagree about Papers Please. One of the crazy things about it is that it's a fun game.

It's basically the definition of a flawed game with great ideas and ambition. I like to think about Nier a lot more than I like playing it, but to me that's totally fine, because thinking about it is just that interesting. From a design standpoint, thematic standpoint and narrative standpoint Nier just has a lot of pondering to offer. Definitely not something I'd recommend for everyone, but it appeals to me.

As for playing the game itself. Just chill out and listen to the soundtrack, feel the atmosphere and try to be in the world of Nier. That's the only thing it does well (aside from the best execution of story in NG+ I can think of). I really do enjoy the melancholy and quiet somber tone of the game, and it does stick to it very well. Say what you want about Nier, but it is what it is and it does what it does. I do respect that.

If you have any decent standard for platforming, puzzling or action Nier will fail to surprise or excite you around every corner and sometimes even piss you off. There are easy ways to break the game and make it stupid easy, but that only turns frustrating into tedious and won't change the bullshit puzzles or navigation. For as much praise as the story gets (and I liked it a fair bit) it's maaaybe not the greatest thing since sliced bread. The plot on it's own just plain isn't that great. What is great however is the smaller interactions between characters and the way the plot affects them, the world as a whole and to some extent even the player.

Anyone who knows they have the time and know they can tolerate a fair bit of bullshit and tedium, I think should put in the 10-15h and get ending B. The journey through NG+ really is something else.

I would agree with you, but I'm sure there's a strong contingent that a) hates that it's art, and b) hates that there's no reticle and no killstreaks.

I've been playing video/computer games since the 1970s and this is the first one that made me cry. To me, that says a lot.

Unique cast of characters (much more interesting than the Androids in Automata), music is great like you said and the gameplay is serviceable but it’s pretty fun and surreal once it starts switching genres, like a survival horror etc.