#1 Posted by Jackel2072 (2238 posts) -

It's only 300 bucks that's not too bad. Really it was Patrick on this weeks bombcast that has sent me over the edge of wanting one. I want to be part of that community figuring all the cool dumb stuff that can be done with this. Also Mirrors Edge. Anyone out there have one of these bad boys?

#2 Posted by StarFoxA (5140 posts) -

Hold on until the consumer model comes out. Right now it's just for developers.

#3 Posted by StarvingGamer (8032 posts) -

Yeah, unless you actually plan on developing for this thing or don't mind throwing $300 at this thing twice within a short time span, I'd say wait until the bigger, better, faster consumer model comes out.

#4 Edited by Zaccheus (1788 posts) -

Unless $300 is just pocket money for you I'd seriously consider waiting for the actual product that will come out. Also there is a huge queue for the dev kits at the moment so at least wait till they get all of those out of the way first.

#6 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

It's only 300 bucks that's not too bad. Really it was Patrick on this weeks bombcast that has sent me over the edge of wanting one. I want to be part of that community figuring all the cool dumb stuff that can be done with this. Also Mirrors Edge. Anyone out there have one of these bad boys?

I don't know if there's a lot the average person can do to "figure" the unit.

I understand if you're decent as using Unity, you can put together some basic stuff pretty quickly. But other than that you, you actually have be a programmer to work with it. I guess you could just download what other people have done and use that to follow along. I think that's what patrick was talking about.

I agree that it's a steal at 300 dollars though. It already runs TF2, so, it's not like you wouldn't have anything to use it with right out of the box.

#7 Posted by Jackel2072 (2238 posts) -

im still kind of going back and forth in my mind. i mean there is some stuff that has been "patched" to work with it ,Mirror's Edge, Skyrim etc. but god only knows how hard it is to get that stuff to working right. also i do have a good feeling about this thing taking off and i kind of want to own a piece of video game history.

#8 Edited by Krakn3Dfx (2485 posts) -

Apparently there's no positional tracking in the initial run. It's not a deal killer, but by broaching the subject, it tells me it'll be added in later revisions of the hardware. I was going to pony up $300 for one, but I think I'm going to hold off for now.

But yeah, I'm super fucking excited about the possibilities of this thing.

#9 Edited by Jams (2959 posts) -

im still kind of going back and forth in my mind. i mean there is some stuff that has been "patched" to work with it ,Mirror's Edge, Skyrim etc. but god only knows how hard it is to get that stuff to working right. also i do have a good feeling about this thing taking off and i kind of want to own a piece of video game history.

Just wait for the consumer version . It's supposed to add extra stuff like stereo cameras and less weight. Unless you want to buy it twice, wait. I know it's hard (i reeaaallly know) be we must be patient.

#10 Posted by RollingZeppelin (1919 posts) -

Man, I'm way more excited about this thing than any of the new consoles!

#11 Posted by Jackel2072 (2238 posts) -

I should also point out I'm the guy who bought a Japanese PSP at launch...

#12 Posted by tourgen (4432 posts) -

My dev kit arrived today. Head tracking is perfect and appears to be only 1 frame behind but I haven't measured that accurately yet.

First impressions is yeah, this is going to be a game changer for a slice of the hardcore game crowd. But, the screen resolution needs to get 2x+ better and/or better use of the screen area needs to happen. Also people need to start building games and environments with it in mind to really make it "pop". Both of these are underway so, good news.

It's definitely a dev unit. You aren't going to be reading a lot of text with it. The pixels are clearly visible. It could look cool at this low of a resolution for certain art styles - like a grungy, glowy cyberpunk world.

#13 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (947 posts) -

@tourgen: Does the image quality look like this mock-up that has been floating around:

?

#14 Edited by Rattle618 (1463 posts) -

I was not thinking about getting one, now Im thinking about not getting one.

:D

#15 Edited by onarum (2021 posts) -

@charlie_victor_bravo said:

@tourgen: Does the image quality look like this mock-up that has been floating around:

?

Yeah, apparently the resolution is REALLY low on the dev units, I watched a video from tested where they spend quite some time with it and they were virtually unable to read any text in games, consumer version will be 1080p though.

You guys recon the final version will be much more expensive than the dev kit? I can only imagine it will, since it will have better everything basically; I'm thinking maybe 500 bucks, I'm going to get one regardless though, may wait a few months after release for any imminent initial problems to be ironed out.

#16 Posted by mordukai (7140 posts) -

@starfoxa said:

Hold on until the consumer model comes out. Right now it's just for developers.

Pretty much that. Unless you are a developer then the WOW factor will die down really fast once you realize it has no other functionality.

#17 Posted by Andorski (5204 posts) -

Wait for the games you want to play with it to have Oculus support before even thinking about buying one. It also wouldn't hurt to wait a little while more and see if future games start to have support for the peripheral as a standard feature.

#18 Posted by Hasuto (15 posts) -

@onarum said:

Yeah, apparently the resolution is REALLY low on the dev units, I watched a video from tested where they spend quite some time with it and they were virtually unable to read any text in games, consumer version will be 1080p though.

You guys recon the final version will be much more expensive than the dev kit? I can only imagine it will, since it will have better everything basically; I'm thinking maybe 500 bucks, I'm going to get one regardless though, may wait a few months after release for any imminent initial problems to be ironed out.

I believe Palmer Luckey (the original guy behind it) has said that they are aiming for $300 for the consumer version as well. But it's naturally impossible to say right now.

The resolution is very low (it looks kind of like what you see in the previous image, but you have a larger FOV) but the reason text is hard to read has more to do with it not being centered properly on the screen and not being suited for the limitations of a low resolution screen. I had problems reading the text in HL2 even on my normal screen (which has the same warping as in the Oculus when you run the system).

And the low resolution isn't quite as noticeable as on a normal screen since when you turn your head the screen moves with you. So it doesn't feel so much as you're looking at a very low resolution screen; it's more like you are looking at the world but you have a big screen door attached to your head that makes everything look strange.

But unless you have $300 around and you were just going to drink it up otherwise I think it's a better option to wait. (You might be able to find some garage dev community around where you live where someone has one if you just want to try it out.)

#19 Edited by Hugh_Jazz (336 posts) -

@onarum said:

@charlie_victor_bravo said:

@tourgen: Does the image quality look like this mock-up that has been floating around:

?

Yeah, apparently the resolution is REALLY low on the dev units, I watched a video from tested where they spend quite some time with it and they were virtually unable to read any text in games, consumer version will be 1080p though.

You guys recon the final version will be much more expensive than the dev kit? I can only imagine it will, since it will have better everything basically; I'm thinking maybe 500 bucks, I'm going to get one regardless though, may wait a few months after release for any imminent initial problems to be ironed out.

I just got mine today(FINALLY) and yeah, the effective resolution is pretty shit. Keep in mind I don't think 1080p will be anywhere near good enough either, since you're still losing huge areas of the display real-estate with the way they're outputting stuff. I'm not entirely sure the reasoning behind it, but it seems to be like one could get a bit more fidelity out of the current displays as well. Might be a pixel density thing causing issues, I'm unsure.

I'm completely stoked about having this thing, but I'm planning on doing some development for it, and that's my primary reason for getting one anyway. I'm downloading TF2 and tested a bit of HL2, which was pretty cool, but I couldn't see myself playing any game not specifically made for this. I guess I'll give Mirror's Edge a whirl, and maybe Skyrim at some point, but mostly just tests. Physically speaking it works just fine, but it does strain the eyes quite a bit, I noticed.

Anyway, I'd be happy to answer more specific questions in case I'm the first guy around here to get one of these.

#20 Posted by Hasuto (15 posts) -

@hugh_jazz said:

I just got mine today(FINALLY) and yeah, the effective resolution is pretty shit. Keep in mind I don't think 1080p will be anywhere near good enough either, since you're still losing huge areas of the display real-estate with the way they're outputting stuff. I'm not entirely sure the reasoning behind it, but it seems to be like one could get a bit more fidelity out of the current displays as well. Might be a pixel density thing causing issues, I'm unsure.

I'm completely stoked about having this thing, but I'm planning on doing some development for it, and that's my primary reason for getting one anyway. I'm downloading TF2 and tested a bit of HL2, which was pretty cool, but I couldn't see myself playing any game not specifically made for this. I guess I'll give Mirror's Edge a whirl, and maybe Skyrim at some point, but mostly just tests. Physically speaking it works just fine, but it does strain the eyes quite a bit, I noticed.

Anyway, I'd be happy to answer more specific questions in case I'm the first guy around here to get one of these.

I got mine last week, so I just managed to beat you. :-) But I don't really hang around on these forums much.

BTW, if you are going to try HL2 I recommend that you use TF2 to calibrate the Oculus first. Then move those settings over to HL2 (you may have to write protect the config file in HL2 or manually enter the values in the console otherwise they will be overwritten). The default settings in HL2 were horrible for me, my eyes hurt and it took a few minutes after I took the Oculus off before my eyes adjusted back. (My eyes hurt because the settings made me look at things cross eyed.) I didn't have this problem on any of the other demos I've tried.

But I do find HL2 to be a pretty intense demo of what it can do. I spend a lot of time just walking around the railway station in the beginning looking at stuff, things look so extremely real that it's almost uncanny. (I was staring at a guard until he started beating me up in the game. :-) )

Anyways, the reason the screen is not completely used in the Rift is because the 7" screen is really too large. You can't use all of the size because you can't separate the two visible circles enough (the positions of those are determined by the distance between your pupils). IIRC a 6" screen would be more optimal.

#21 Edited by RockyRaccoon37 (426 posts) -

im still kind of going back and forth in my mind. i mean there is some stuff that has been "patched" to work with it ,Mirror's Edge, Skyrim etc. but god only knows how hard it is to get that stuff to working right. also i do have a good feeling about this thing taking off and i kind of want to own a piece of video game history.

I think you might be jumping the gun by calling this a "piece of video game history".

I'm still not convinced that this thing really has any mass market appeal, and more importantly that it could be used in a meaningful way for the majority of video games.

It just seems like a really silly toy for people who have too much money.

#22 Posted by Scrawnto (2435 posts) -

I will definitely get an Oculus Rift once the consumer model comes out. I'm in the fringe that actually really likes stereoscopic 3D. Hell, I played Garry's Mod with a mod that split the image that worked with the eye-crossing variant of stereoscopy. It was pretty awkward, but a lot of fun for me.

Stereoscopy + headtracking + increased FOV sounds awesome. It should be a lot of fun for flight simulators and immersive first person games like Deus Ex or Dishonored. I will not be playing horror games with it, though. I can hardly play those during the day time with my blinds way open.

#23 Posted by tourgen (4432 posts) -

@charlie_victor_bravo: Sorry for not responding sooner - Yes, that's about right. It's hard to explain though because that image would nearly fill the entire field of view of one of your eyes. The image is shaped that way to counteract the pincushion distortion the lenses introduce (they are "fisheye" lenses) to give you the wide field of view.

@hugh_jazz:What tools are you planning to use to develop? I'm using VC 2010 and the Oculus SDK with OpenGL (3.3+ context profile). I've got sensor data and stereo rendering working with a basic scene. It was actually pretty simple. Essentially the same stuff the Oculus Rift samples do but I'm using OpenGL instead of DirectX because that's what I know.

I think something like Memory of a Broken Dimension could be extremely awesome with the rift. That dirty digital look with full immersion and head tracking would be a trip.

#24 Posted by Reisz (1461 posts) -

Do it, I would if I was willing to spend the money.

#25 Posted by Sin4profit (2910 posts) -

I've been following the rift pretty closely. Some material to check out that i'd recommend is Cynamic Bruce's videos on YouTube. He's also been doing a live streams on Twitch where you can ask him questions directly. Bruce's Twitch feed. I like the way he articulates what he's seeing and he points out some modern technology flaws that have to be addressed throughout his videos (such as the issues with reflection and shadow maps when tilting your head)

A site you may want to look through that's featuring the Rift Tech demos and the "retrofitted game" compatibility list is http://www.riftenabled.com/ it features a spread sheet with the games (and apps) and details the various compatabilities with those, (native/retrofitted support, hydra support, that kinda thing)

Also the first impressions video that i've seen so far that comes across as somewhat negative was from Dslyecxi who mostly has a huge problem with the monitor resolution and suggests he doesn't see the Rift being great with competitive games. Either way it's good to take the negative with the positive if you're really thinking about picking one up.

#26 Edited by Jackel2072 (2238 posts) -

@jackel2072 said:

im still kind of going back and forth in my mind. i mean there is some stuff that has been "patched" to work with it ,Mirror's Edge, Skyrim etc. but god only knows how hard it is to get that stuff to working right. also i do have a good feeling about this thing taking off and i kind of want to own a piece of video game history.

I think you might be jumping the gun by calling this a "piece of video game history".

I'm still not convinced that this thing really has any mass market appeal, and more importantly that it could be used in a meaningful way for the majority of video games.

It just seems like a really silly toy for people who have too much money.

i dont know. the virtual boy is part of video game history. granted a terrible part of video game history, but none the less a part of that history. I think this is still the beginnings of this type of interaction. i feel once its consumer version hits the market it will get some mass market appeal (maybe nothing crazy but some) i am also a person who suffers from early adopters syndrome so i have that going against me. i dont know fella's i dont think i will pick one up at this time. mainly due to money. no i dont just have 300 to burn

#27 Edited by Max_Cherry (1131 posts) -

@jackel2072 said:

It's only 300 bucks that's not too bad. Really it was Patrick on this weeks bombcast that has sent me over the edge of wanting one. I want to be part of that community figuring all the cool dumb stuff that can be done with this. Also Mirrors Edge. Anyone out there have one of these bad boys?

Yeah. I have one. It is crazy cool. Yes, the resolution is bad, but not near as bad as that picture makes it out to be. I would recommend it, especially if you want to get involved in the community. You also get access to the developer forums with it. I'll be happy to answer any questions if you like.

#28 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Of course the image quality is going to be kind of sub-par, go and put your face to a 720P or 1080P screen to simulate how the pixels are going to look.

It's going to need something like 2560x1600 + to not look pixelated, and even then it's probably going to be quite easy to spot some pixels.

With this thing the image quality isn't what you're buying it for, and even then I'm sure a 1080P kit will look pretty serviceable and certainly worth the added immersion at the cost of reduced image quality.

Wait until the consumer version hits, otherwise you'll end up being annoyed when it does come out and it's much better than the one you have now. Unless of course you really do have some disposable money, I'm tempted myself but I'm going to invest in a PS4 instead and then a Rift when the 'real' one is out with some more title support.

This thing is truly more exciting than any of these new consoles. (or should I say mid-range AMD PCs)

#29 Posted by Max_Cherry (1131 posts) -

@sooty said:

Of course the image quality is going to be kind of sub-par, go and put your face to a 720P or 1080P screen to simulate how the pixels are going to look.

It's going to need something like 2560x1600 + to not look pixelated, and even then it's probably going to be quite easy to spot some pixels.

With this thing the image quality isn't what you're buying it for, and even then I'm sure a 1080P kit will look pretty serviceable and certainly worth the added immersion at the cost of reduced image quality.

Wait until the consumer version hits, otherwise you'll end up being annoyed when it does come out and it's much better than the one you have now. Unless of course you really do have some disposable money, I'm tempted myself but I'm going to invest in a PS4 instead and then a Rift when the 'real' one is out with some more title support.

This thing is truly more exciting than any of these new consoles. (or should I say mid-range AMD PCs)

He's not getting it instead of the consumer version. He wants to get it to be involved in the first true "VR" community. Also, 1080p will be an exponential improvement over 720p due to the way they distribute the image on the screen. I have one and it is not like putting your face to a flat 720p TV screen. It's much better than that; it's just a little rough around the edges (figuratively).

#30 Edited by Hugh_Jazz (336 posts) -

@hasuto: Yeah, I assumed the reason was the physical screen size. It's kind of a bummer really, and doesn't bode well if the consumer version is meant to be a higher resolution(1080p might be fine for a first, but I do believe an even higher resolution will be needed before long), with a 6" display running at 120Hz(which I also can understand is completely needed, otherwise it be blurry as shit all up in here).

[EDIT] And yeah, I did end up downloading TF2 just to get to the IPD test, but I don't think it had much of an effect for me. I tried a bit of Dishonored also, but I can see I won't be playing any games that don't natively support the Rift, since in those you basically just have two mice and it's hell of confusing. In HL2, though, the small touches are fantastic. I'm playing with viewmode 1(the one where you aim independently of your movement, causes a bit of drift), and how Gordon holds the gun differently when aiming to the left or right of himself was pretty sweet. Also, I had a bit of a trip when I first put the HEV suit on and his arms came out of my torso. :)

@tourgen: I'll be using Unity at first, because I'm a big lazy fuck. I work with Objective C all day, and do web development work for a second job on my free time, so I don't really have much motivation to start building these things from scratch, cool though it may be. As another user of these forums once told me, it's more important to get ideas working inside of an engine than having to build an engine to know you're ideas are even any good.

#31 Posted by mrfluke (5102 posts) -

@max_cherry: @hugh_jazz: @tourgen:

i have a question for you folks that have the oculus rift, what happens if you plug in that thing to a console through hdmi, does it even register/work?

im kind of curious to know if you can use it as essentially like a HMD, the 3d and the head tracking is cool, but for me the massive field of view is what makes the rift so appealing for me.

#32 Posted by TheHT (10930 posts) -

after the bombcast, i really want one of these. mostly for left 4 dead and skyrim. that would be pretty fucking intense.

#33 Posted by Hugh_Jazz (336 posts) -

@mrfluke:

Well, it might if you set your output to 720p, but it'd be more or less unusable given how the segmentation of the view for right eye and left eye. Just look at how Jeff reacts to navigating the Windows desktop with that thing on last friday's Unprofessional Fridays.

@theht: I see where you're coming from, but I don't think it'd really do much for either game because of the low resolution impairing graphical fidelity and(at least in Skyrim's case, I assume) the non-implemented separate head tracking from directional control. The point being that, with an Oculus, the mouse/right stick should control your characters direction while the Oculus only controls the head. That, at least, is when my experience is at its best.

I might give L4D a try, though, see how it looks.

#34 Posted by Hasuto (15 posts) -

I'm also a developer who intent to use Unity to try out some ideas, at least to start with. (Considering we get 4 months trial with the Rift on top of the 1st month it seems like a good plan to at least try it out some.) I mainly want to try out some UI and concept ideas and it's not really something I will make any money on.

For HL2 I can recommend setting the disparity setting to 0, it makes the 3D "pop" more if it's set to "2" which it is in HL2 by default but it also strains the eyes more. It's almost scary how real things become when you walk around in a "real" environment like HL2 though. And I feel it is a lot easier to track multiple enemies when you can let your instincts help you out with tracking things.

If anyone is considering getting one (and not as a developer) I would say though that the ONLY games you should consider getting it for are those that have native VR support. Besides that I still get simulator sick in HL2 (and not in any of the other demos, even the roller coaster one) I still want to play through that game again in VR mode. Only because the experience is so profound. While I haven't tried the special drivers yet I really don't see that playing through games like Skyrim or L4D is going to be any fun in the long run. (It can be fun to jump in and play for 15-30 minutes, but not something you want to play through.)

Other things to try are the small demos people have been releasing. I recommend "Proton pulse" which is a breakout style puzzle game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhOi8CQ5_ns) and "First law" which is a space arcade sim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1FdhTE-16U). I have also heard good things about "Space walk" but I haven't tried that yet.

BTW I also have both the Razer Hydra and a Novint Falcon which I have played around with in VR. The Hydra sure has a lot of potential for intuitive world manipulation and the Falcon is pretty cool too. (Both have native support in HL2 as well, but the Hydra didn't work well in the VR mode I tried. I did play with the Falcon though, and the integration there was good.) The Hydras are quite cheap now and worth getting if you want to play around with VR development. (And the included Portal 2 levels are also quite fun.)

#35 Edited by Max_Cherry (1131 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

@max_cherry: @hugh_jazz: @tourgen:

i have a question for you folks that have the oculus rift, what happens if you plug in that thing to a console through hdmi, does it even register/work?

im kind of curious to know if you can use it as essentially like a HMD, the 3d and the head tracking is cool, but for me the massive field of view is what makes the rift so appealing for me.

If you plug it into a console you will get two jumbled up images of two small parts of the screen in each eye that will give you an instant headache, Yes. Do I consider that working? No. In response two your second question: Absolutely Yes. The Rift will take up your entire field of view. That's what makes it so amazing. However, I have been motion sick just twice in my life, and the second time was with the Oculus Rift.

#36 Posted by tourgen (4432 posts) -

@hugh_jazz: That's awesome, blog your prototypes here or message me with links. No need to explain why you chose Unity, Unity is amazing. Use the tools you know. I have no experience with mono/c# but am at home C and raw OpenGL so that's what I tend to prototype with.

#37 Edited by Deranged (1837 posts) -

Isn't it still in a developmental phase with basically only developers getting their hands on the product? Still, $300 is a shitload of money for a product that doesn't seem consumer friendly yet.

#38 Edited by Hugh_Jazz (336 posts) -

@tourgen: For me, I'd be totally happy working in C++, as that's what I learned programming on, and it's kind of sad to realize you'd not need much programming experience at all to make Unity work for you, but it's all a matter of resources, and time is fucking scarce right now.

I've got a few ideas for stuff that I'll be testing out, hopefully, this weekend. Maybe I'll do some blogging about it.

On another note, do you have any good resources for usage of OpenGL? It's been a while since I looked at it last, would be interesting to have another look.

Back to the topic at hand, I played a bit more of HL2 when I got home from work, and that game might be the single best display of the uses of the Rift. Probably just a product of Valve's game design practices of never taking control away etc. I did end up feeling nauseus after a short while. Also what felt like cold sweats, but that might be because of the completely messed up weather in Finland right now. Either way my body isn't completely agreeing with the Rift.

#39 Posted by chilibean_3 (1625 posts) -

I'm going to wait until the consumer version comes out but, dang it, it's getting harder to be patient.

#40 Posted by tourgen (4432 posts) -

@hugh_jazz: Great! I still need to check out HL2 with the Rift. I'm looking forward to that, but I want to clear a few hours so I can really have fun with it. Maybe this weekend. I'm a little bummed that Doom3 BFG doesn't support the rift yet. I used my kickstarter credit to get it on Steam and wow, pretty fun hallway shooter that still looks very good today. The shadow effects are still very good.OpenGL 3.3+ tutorials is one of the clearest, most concise intro to "modern" openGL - the fixed function pipeline obsoleted out. everything is done with shaders. similar to modern directx. and of course, The Red Book. It's the definitive go-to resource. The eighth edition came out earlier this year and it's pretty good. They cut away all the older nonsense.

Here's a raw screenshot of my ogl 3.3+ prototype with Rift support. It's amazing how easy they made supporting it. Their SDK is pretty solid for still being under development.