A career in films in a foreign country?

Hey Giantbombers! In all the time on these forums I've learnt that you guys are quite well informed about a variety of topics, plus I'm quite comfortable posting personal questions/ thoughts here, so I decided to get your views on a dilemma I'm currently in.

So I'm about to join a film school (having just finished with my 5 years of Architecture college while making many short films along side), but I'm not a big fan of the film industry in my country.

I live in India (the industry being Bollywood) and so the "foreign countries" that I mentioned in the title here includes US (and therefore - Hollywood.)

The thing is, I love films but hate what Bollywood puts out. The problem here is a bit complex and I'm not sure whether I can or should write an analysis of why here. Dance, music and absurd stunts are all that the audience cares about. It's hard for me to watch any film without face - palming or getting thoroughly depressed due to the trash that gets released.The handful of good films (maybe one every year or two) that do come out disappear into the unknown after a few weeks. So here are some reasons:

• But it's not just why I don't like Bollywood, more than that it's why I'd prefer working somewhere else - Hollywood films (and some other foreign films- mostly east Asian) are what made me fall in love with films in the first place. You can check my all - time favorites here to get an idea of what kind of films I like. There are some mainstream greats, but also other critically... disliked (?) films that I just find beautiful (The last samurai, Secret life of Walter mitty, Oblivion) In Bruges is probably my all time favorite, along with the Intouchables. These films have inspired me, and in many ways, changed my life. No Bollywood film ever did that. (Also I love the way Hollywood uses soundtrack. I'm a soundtrack lover. Hate how Bollywood does it)
• Also, I'm a big fan of historical/ fantasy films (I even watch the ones that are cliched and don't receive much critical acclaim)
  I LOVED the atmosphere and soundtrack in The Last Samurai (and actually loved the film as well) That kind of stuff just doesn't get made or asked for in Bollywood. It'd be a dream to be involved in a project like LoTR or something. (Also, my favorite genre in games is RPG - Fable, Oblivion, Witcher, DA:O, Mass Effect etc being my favorites)
  The reason I started making films is because of films (and games) like those. TV is pretty great too (GoT, Lost, Twin Peaks).
  Don't get me started on TV in India. It's almost criminal that they make what they do here.

Here are my questions/ concerns:

• I assume that migrating for a career such as films would obviously be very different from say, migrating for a career in the IT industry or something. In IT you'd probably have placement and a checklist of qualifications that your resume would probably have to fulfill, what about films though?
• Knowing the (pop?) culture of the country I work in would probably be important. All I know about the culture of US is what I've learnt from films, TV, video games and the internet. Still, that is ALL that I've watched all my life. Also, I'm not very familiar with Indian media/ pop culture because I've mostly avoided it. If I watch as many films, games and TV as any average American guy, I'm I still far behind? Does not being born (and brought up) in the country become a major hurdle if I eventually want to become a director in films or TV in that country?
• In short - I really want to be involved in the type of films that have inspired me all my life - historical, fantasy and even the little feel good ones etc at least at some point of my career (I love making and watching all types of films now, but I still love my original inspirations)
  Also, I don't want to be involved in these Bollywood films that, when I watch them, suck out all my inspiration and make me question my career choice.

I know this is a somewhat vague question (maybe it's the way that I put it across) but hopefully I was able to convey the gist of it, and you guys can give me some good information on which I can make further decisions.

Thanks duders!

Aren't, like, half of our films directed by someone from a different country anyway?

I don't have a whole lot of advice for you. However, I will note that Ridley Scott is British and he's directed a lot of successful films here. Roland Emmerich is German. Luc Besson is French. Gareth Evans is Welsh and he makes movies in Indonesia, of all places - if these people can travel as far as they have to make movies, then surely you can.

One of the biggest hurdles would be learning English and you seem to know that pretty well, although definitely practice making your accent as clear as possible. Just because you can read and write English and can understand it when spoken doesn't mean that an English speaker can necessarily understand you - finding someone with whom you can have entire conversations in English would help a lot.

EDIT: Also, even if you don't like them, if you can get some experience making a Bollywood film, do that. Getting some experience is never a bad thing.

Coming from an outsider point of view, my biggest advice is to try to get your work out there. I got from a country were the movie industry is pretty much non-existent. As such, the only success cases I have (the guy that made Panic Attack ended up directing Evil Dead, and the guy that made La Casa Muda) are from people that had an interesting idea and put them out there, and tried to sell themselves after that, as a portfolio.

Regardless of what you want to achieve, the best way is to make it. You may not getting it the first time (or the tenth), and you may need to make projects you are not proud of (like Bollywood movies), but every project you work on is a learning experience.

I've dealt with migrating and immigration issues/processes for a couple of years now (not the US though), and all I can say is that it all boils down to being a pretty good candidate for a specific role within a company (regardless of the industry). So it depends heavily on your potential employer (and all the bureaucracy it entails).

The creative industries hiring process doesn't differ too much from other kind of jobs in the fact that you need credentials, just add a good portfolio to the mix. Companies nor immigration officers know/care about who you are (or you say you are), what you've done or anything that can't be deduced from a diploma/credential/paperwork. Have in mind that you are competing against local-born candidates, which companies usually prefer because they are cheaper/safer, so being familiar with the culture is kind of irrelevant in that case.

If you haven't started the film program yet I suggest that you look into studying in the US instead, going from an international student to a foreign worker is way easier than trying to find a job overseas. If not, look for "working holiday" visa programs and such, those are usually pretty good when it comes to avoiding a lot of the immigration barriers that companies have when hiring foreign workers.

From my experience, migrating to another country is not easy in the least, you'll have to deal with a lot of barriers. There are a lot of bureaucratic barriers in place to deter employers from hiring foreign workers and, on top of that add some dehumanization and biases to the mix. In most cases you will be just a name on a paper for the companies/officers.

All in all, do your best, keep looking and don't give up! Prove to them that you are really passionate about it and work hard!

@armaan8014: Are you going to film school in India or are you trying to go to one in another country?

Making a career in filmmaking is already difficult no matter what country you are in, so I can't imagine moving to another one and then trying to get into the industry. If your goal is Hollywood, I would start making preparations for a long road ahead, because once you are there you become a small fish in a very overpopulated pond. It'll take a lot of hard work for little or no pay, along with some luck. I don't want to discourage you, but yeah, it's rough.

One possible option if you are looking for film work in the US is to start in a city with a strong indie market. Look for cities that are thriving because of the tax incentives given to films that shoot in them. I live and work in Texas, and there are some nearby states that have fairly strong markets right now like Georgia and Louisiana. It would mainly be freelance work, where you are filing out payment and identification forms as an independent contractor, so I don't know how well that meshes with any temporary or permanent immigration type issues you might have to deal with. I have no experience with that.

In terms of qualifications for working on feature films, there's no real standard for what you need to have. It's usually both a combination of what you know, and more importantly who you know. The main way you keep working (if you aren't just funding and making your own stuff) is by growing yourself a network of people and production companies that trust and want to keep working with you. If you don't have a lot of experience you can always start out as a production assistant. You should have a resume, but I've only really needed it when I was contacting someone I have never met through email and wanted them to be able to see what I have worked on recently.

Is there anything in particular that you want to do? There are a lot of departments that people specialize in and make their living by, even if they are wanting to eventually write or direct (or both) their own stuff. Things like editing, camera assisting/operating, lighting, DIT, sound recording/editing/mixing, costume/set design, makeup, hair, tons of departments with very skilled people.

I'm no expert, but I think it's important to know as much as I can about the industry I work in as I make my way into it, so feel free to ask me any questions. Any answer I give probably won't be as good as a well thought out Google search. A lot of the non hands-on information you would learn in film school is already free on the internet.

@cmpltnoob: I'm planning to join a school in India, but have only given the entrance exams as of now (while also giving my final exams for architecture at the same time) Yup, getting into the industry would definitely be tough. Thanks for the tip about choosing the location to work in according to the kind of market it supports, that's the kind of thing that might help me ease into the industry proper.
Also, it's funny that I do know some established directors back here in India. If I chose to work here, it'd probably be less of a rough start and I'd be earning steadily sooner. But that's the choice I've got to make - taking a risk of moving to another country for more creative freedom or playing it (comparatively) safe and staying here.
As for the departments involved in film making, I enjoy cinematography and editing (Of course, I have to do everything when I make my short films/ music videos, but those two processes are my favorite) I'm not very good (yet) at writing scripts. Also, from what I read it looks like you're involved in the industry. Is that correct?

@demokk: Hmm, that's interesting. So you'd suggest starting a film course in, say, US itself?

The reason I wanted to do it in India is, first of all, that it's much cheaper here. From what I've looked up so far, it's apparently so expensive in US that many people suggest skipping film school and just working directly on making a good portfolio (through reels and short films). But I really want to get first hand experience with and understand the equipment and process involved, which I'd be able to do for much lesser money here.

But from what you've pointed out, maybe I should re - look at the option of studying in US and check it's practicality.

@hermes: Thanks for the advice! Yeah, hopefully in my (upcoming) 3 years of film school (which is here in India), I'll be able to build a solid portfolio. I'm not really sure what I'll do once I pass out, but I do have some contacts here who would involve me in their projects. So maybe gaining experience with them before thinking of moving out would be a better idea.

@believer258: Thanks. That's exactly the kind of thing I wanted to know more about.

Paperwork (I.E job exp and school diplomas/certificates) are a big deal with trying to land a job here. It also helps to have connections within the industry. Before moving I would try and reach out and attempt to make some contacts within the industry state side. Not only will it come in handy with the job side of things but it could also help when trying to get a work visa/citizenship. Sorry that I couldn't be much more help, but I wish you the best dude! =D Shoot for the moon, even if you miss you'll land among the stars.

@armaan8014: If you are able to then definitely! Make sure you do your research well and are actually interested and motivated to join that school too.

Unfortunately tuition tends to be super expensive for this kind of courses and I'd say it is not entirely worth it in some cases, but as an international it will help you immensely in building your contact list and could add a lot to your paperwork/resume. I am not familiar with the US immigration streams, but in most cases having studied in the country helps a lot when applying for visas/permanent residency/green card not to mention that it gives you a much better perspective on how the industry and all that works in the US.

Do your research and examine your options in detail. You will be essentially trying to achieve two different and pretty big milestones at the same time, so you have to think thoroughly about how to best approach both. Immigrating is a pretty big commitment, so have that in mind as well.

Have a look at this link too: http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english.html

@armaan8014: Here's some unorganized pieces of advice that have helped me in production:

• Film school is cool and all, but no one gives a fuck about your credentials if you don't have a solid reel. To get an even entry-level position you need to build a strong portfolio. I'm not sure how things work in India, but that's the case in the States at least. I would recommend you invest in a low-midgrade DSLR (T3i-5D range) which should be fine for film or a camcorder if you're looking to do TV. Get a good shotgun mic (about 100) and a low-end Tascam recorder, and a pair of studio headphones (don't skimp on sound). And obviously a (good!) fluid-head tripod. You can obviously go deep down the gear rabbit hole, but that's about all you need to film professional-looking stuff and will run you somewhere around 1200, if I have to throw an estimate out there without actually calculating prices. Don't know how shipping is on that stuff for international. And then just start filming. Anything. Dumb script ideas you have, interviews that you can nab (even non-film stuff will help build your reel), etc. You'll obviously start doing this a lot more once you get to film school, but having the drop on how to operate equipment prior to going will put you ahead of your peer group and will save you time down the line (when you'll need more of it).
• If you have the time, take any kind of internship you can get. You want to be a director? Great, so does everybody else. ANY job that you can get within the industry will help you make connections and rub elbows with the people who will offer you jobs down the line.
• Bollywood may not be the pinnacle of fine art, but you're not trying to be a writer, right? And you won't get a directing gig or even an AD gig right off of the bat. So your job isn't to make a grand statement or to make the next LOTR. Your job will be to make professional quality video, and any technical experience that you gain by doing any kind of film/TV job you can will help you learn the ropes so that when you DO get that opportunity to be the captain, so to speak, you know how everything works and can do so competently.
• You might end up in a position that's not at all what you want to do - maybe you're an editor, or a camera operator, or a 1AC. Some solid advice that was given at this year's PAX production panel by Gamespot/GB was that even if you find yourself in that position, try to find a way to leave your own personal imprint on the project - do every job, even the ones you don't want to do, to the best of your ability and with the utmost professionalism and add a personal flourish. You don't like the way India handles its film/TV? If you get a job in the industry, impart your own personal touch (obviously not interfering with the directorial vision) to try to help change that and bring it in line with what you feel is quality.
• Above all, work your ass off, try harder than your peers, and if it's really what you want to do, good things will come your way. Just stay humble and don't look down on any opportunity that you're offered. Maybe you're Orson Welles reborn, but no one knows that until you've proven yourself, so you don't really have a place to criticize others' work until you've put in the time yourself. Not saying that it isn't bad, just saying that it's probably made that way for a reason.
• Last but not least, have a Plan B. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Have some other marketable skills that you can fall back on in case you hit a dry spell and can't find a job right after school. Certainly don't do anything drastic like moving out of the country unless you're absolutely sure that your decision is sustainable in the long term without guaranteed employment.

Hope some of these help you out, and best of luck.

I worked at a film studio in Mumbai for a couple of months (As oppose to my regular studio in London, where I live) and one of the things I learned is that everyone wants to leave India and work in London. It seems to be a very common dream, and unfortunately the chances of it happening are very, very small. If anything, film companies are trying to relocate people to India and Canada because it's a lot cheaper for them to do that - they can pay the same artists at a fraction of the price.

I work in VFX, incidentally, so if you're going the acting/directing/editing route then I don't know if any of this applies. I think the important difference here is how self sufficient you plan on being. You should not be waiting for someone to go "Oh hey man, here's a million bucks, go make a film" - you should scrape whatever money you have and do it yourself right now. In that sense, it doesn't really matter where you're based on the planet. Also, Here's an article you should read.

@sweep: Thanks for the article link :) Yeah you're right,I don't plan on doing VFX. But I also don't expect to start my own project right off the bat. I would probably start as an assistant in cinematography, editing or even directing - and I'm pretty excited for that too. Also, how was your experience of working in Mumbai?

@infamousbig: Thanks! That's a lot of unorganized but really useful information. About the "just start filming" part, I've been trying to do that at every opportunity during my 5 years at architecture. Now that I can focus on film, I'm sure I'll be able to devote all my time to it. If I join a film school, then it'll add to it (Plus free equipment!) (Also, architecture acts as my second basket for my backup eggs :))

From everything else you said, you think it would be a better idea to grab any opportunity I get in India itself, make a name for myself and rise a bit, and then think of moving on to opportunities elsewhere? Or do you think moving out immediately and studying film outside, then transitioning to a career in that same country would be more preferable? (I realize there might not be a "right" answer for this, but I'd like to know your opinion all the same)

@demokk: Thanks, you've given me plenty to think about :) Also I hear it's easier to move to Canada. Maybe I should try working my way through there? (Even though Canada's the butt of all jokes for some reason, don't really know why :P)

@naoiko: Thanks for the advice :) Every bit is useful.

@armaan8014: It was... interesting. Crowded, sweaty, dirty and prone to collapse at any minute? I spent most of it being ill as well, as I remember :D I met loads of decent people though, lots of good food (Even if it nearly killed me) and just seeing the city is pretty crazy. The second month started to drag a lot, but that was probably more to do with the work I was doing than because of the location.

If you're planning on moving to the US to start life as an assistant I can tell you right now that's going to be rough to sort out, as getting a visa for that place is, in my experience, a total nightmare. You'd need the company in question to effectively sponsor you and prove that they can't hire for your position internally - which in the case of an assistant or low level editor is obviously going to be problematic. Having said that, millions of people manage to get over there and find work every year, so I'm sure you could find a loophole somewhere if that's what you really wanted to do.

@armaan8014: I went to film school in NYC, and have worked in the film and TV industry. I currently work as a producer on a TV show. I agree a lot with what InfamousBIG said. I think a really good course of action for you is to go out and just make a film. I know it sounds daunting and difficult, but its getting easier and easier to make a real film with a small budget. Sure, a DSLR is only 1080p, but if you make something really fantastic it won't matter..festivals will eat it up and it could get bought and released digitally and on different marketplaces. The easiest way to become a filmmaker is to just become one. If you go out and make a film, even with a shoestring budget nothing will ever take away the fact that you are a filmmaker. If you have the talent and drive you will get somewhere with it.

@counterclockwork87: Well I've been making short films and music videos for a band of ours, but haven't done much with them except add them to my portfolio. (Architecture kept me busy) Now that I'm almost out, I'll be devoting all my time to doing just that. Joining a film school should give me plenty of time to do that as well :)

@sweep: Ah that's interesting. I live just south of Mumbai in an equally sweaty state called Goa :D

Wow, getting a company to sponsor me etc sounds quite tough. As I asked someone else above, what would you say about trying to route in through Canada (as moving there is apparently much easier?) And then establish myself in that industry therefore making it easier to move from there?

Someone else suggested joining a school in the US to make the process easier. There's also the option of studying and gaining experience in India and then try moving out as an already established filmmaker (Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions, but I'll be joining a school in a few months so I want to confirm this is a step in the right direction :P)

@armaan8014: I don't know where you heard that, but it is pretty similar to the US as far as I know. You need to have a "purpose" for being there for both (and pretty much any other country). As I said, that could be studying or working (through sponsorship in most cases), but there is definitely no free pass to Canada or an easy way. In my opinion, you should stick to the US if that is where you want migrate to, it doesn't make much sense to migrate to a country just so you can then repeat almost the same process again and migrate to another one.

US immigration is a bitch. Be prepared for huge headaches.

I encourage anybody to come to the US and bring their art. I think that's pretty much my most fundamental expectation for this country. We're not always the best at that, unfortunately. But that's a pretty political thing to bring up, and I don't really feel like having an immigration debate.

I wish you luck, though. Film is hard enough to break into when you're not also relocating. The great thing about technology today is that you don't have to relocate to share your art. Start by making some short films that subvert the culture you're not a fan of. If your tastes are as different from the majority of your peers as you say, then it will be easy for you to stick out. Throw those movies online. You're not going to make anything at first, but if you're good you'll get noticed. I know for a fact there's a lot of folks on this site who would love to watch what you create. I'm sure this is all stuff other people say all the time. Anyway, follow what you love and don't give up! It took me over ten years just to break into the industry I've wanted to be in since I was a kid, but it's just about the most rewarding, proud accomplishment I've ever done.

Also, I always appreciate seeing some PTA respect. Magnolia is an incredible film, and also one of my personal all-time favorites.

@hatking: Thanks for the encouragement! :)
I think I'll go ahead with the film school in India, and get noticed / make a name for myself in this country first (which might be a hard few first years, considering the content and kind of films I'll probably have to start with). As you and some others said, I'll put my short films and early efforts online (and later submit to festivals) in an attempt to get noticed. If all goes well, I'll be involved in making the kind of films that I actually enjoy, and hopefully that'll be soon :)

Its all about your reel. No one cares where you are from or what school you went too or if you didn't go to school at all. All they want is proof you finish projects and you execute them well.

To me the question is do you start filming in India or America to make that reel. Once you have it and if it good you'll get work. Not saying you'll get $100 million projects but you'll get work. Getting a good reel is easier said than done though.

I never went to film school but I had the befit of growing up in NYC where work is aplenty. I've been in the buisness almost 20 years now. It's a fical buisness but I love it.

Just make stuff all the time. Hone your craft. Get a Reel. They rest will take care of itself. Just never stop making stuff on your own till other people hire you.

@docwattson: Thanks. After reading your post I spent the entire morning checking out reels on Vimeo.

Yeah, that's the question to me as well, where do I work to make my reels/ short films etc. As in that early stage I might not be earning much either, so another question might be where would it be easier to survive with an unsteady income (and where would I be able to use that early stage with maximum efficiency)

Maybe since the competition in India is less (as compared to US), or since the kind of work usually done here is different, i'd be able to make an impression here quicker. Maybe I'd be able to get a job here while I make my reel too (as I have some contacts in films here, none in US)

Most of this is guesswork, but I think I might just have to take a calculated risk and go ahead with that