Posted by JasonR86 (9729 posts) -

Psychologytoday is a website that in theory is kind of cool. My blogs where I offer FAQs regarding mental health therapy and the process of it is in a similar category. Basically it provides a resource for clients and those interested in psychology to learn about what is happening in psychology currently (today some might say).

But because this is geared towards a more casual audience I get a little irritated when writers on there do really gross things. Like this blog, linked from an article on the FRONT PAGE OF THE SITE!!!!, where the very important but apparently amazingly out of touch Philip Zimbardo (he created the Stanford Prison Experiment) writes that men and boys are no longer turning into 'guys' or adult men.

So first he's defining what a 'guy/adult male' is. Which is gross. There is no definition. There is no ideal. People can be whatever they want to be. Putting one's own definition of anything relating to another is mistake #1 in working with clients. You don't do that shit. Ever. It's disgusting. People are whoever they wish to be period the end.

Then he explains that men aren't men anymore because of excessive porn and online games. Basically men are falling behind women in regard to social skills, leadership capabilities, emotional availability, you name it men are lacking. So excessive porn use could be an issue in regards to social ability. Though it's probably waaaaay less often then he thinks. But online games? Really? Offline games maybe you could make a case. But online games? Nah son.

Also, just in the nit and gritty of his blog and the article on the front page, he cites none of the sources he claims are scientific fact, claims research conclusions are the same thing as absolute truth which is nonsense, and basically any symposium, which his blog is an overview of his symposium (and a book he's selling), tends to ignore research that disagrees with the point of the symposium/book.

So, just keep in mind, if someone claims to have some sort psychological fact behind it is often biased as shit and often are doing some gross, fucked up shit and using their name and credentials.

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#1 Edited by TyCobb (1975 posts) -

Am I allowed to say "psychobabble"? In any case, I couldn't make it past the 2nd paragraph of that article. You can't become a man if you are "in a gang" and "flaming out academically".

#2 Posted by JasonR86 (9729 posts) -

@tycobb said:

Am I allowed to say "psychobabble"? In any case, I couldn't make it past the 2nd paragraph of that article. You can't become a man if you are "in a gang" and "flaming out academically".

Isn't it disgusting?

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#3 Posted by TyCobb (1975 posts) -

@jasonr86: I no longer think its disgusting. I find it quite humorous now after reading more: "The high-definition 3-D porn wave may also be coming (pun intended). "

You're right, it is. =)

#4 Edited by mlarrabee (3064 posts) -

He's reasonably accurate with his premise that young men are staying kids for far too long.

You're right, people can be whatever they want to be. But people should consider what's best for themselves, their families, and their communities, and most people don't. It's pretty common these days for young men and women to move back in with mom and dad after college and to not move out until they're into their late twenties. Acceptance of personal responsibility is a rare quality.

Are porn and video games to blame for immaturity? I'm not qualified to say but I don't think they are inherently (I wouldn't play games if I did). Though I believe that both are often used in excess, and that intemperance exacerbates immaturity.

#5 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

It's pretty common these days for young men and women to move back in with mom and dad after college and to not move out until they're into their late twenties. Acceptance of personal responsibility is a rare quality.

Maybe because of the job market or college debt or something else that makes moving out more difficult than it was in the past?

#6 Posted by DarthOrange (3908 posts) -

Wait! You mean there are other factors not being considered, correlation does not equal causation, and Philip Zimbardo is full of shit?

Mind = Blown

#7 Posted by mlarrabee (3064 posts) -

@mlarrabee said:

It's pretty common these days for young men and women to move back in with mom and dad after college and to not move out until they're into their late twenties. Acceptance of personal responsibility is a rare quality.

Maybe because of the job market or college debt or something else that makes moving out more difficult than it was in the past?

This has been the case for much longer than this current economic trouble. And even if lack of work is the issue (as it has been for me for several months), that's little excuse for sitting on one's parents' couch browsing Facebook rather than working in whatever ways one can. Motivated people find ways to help themselves and others even when the ways aren't obvious.

#8 Edited by JasonR86 (9729 posts) -

@mlarrabee said:

He's reasonably accurate with his premise that young men are staying kids far too long.

You're right, people can be whatever they want to be. But people should consider what's best for themselves, their families, and their communities, and most people don't. It's pretty common these days for young men and women to move back in with mom and dad after college and to not move out until they're into their late twenties. Acceptance of personal responsibility is a rare quality.

Are porn and video games to blame for immaturity? I'm not qualified to say but I don't think they are inherently (I wouldn't play games if I did). Though I believe that both are often used in excess, and that intemperance exacerbates immaturity.

I feel my job as a therapist is to help people live as happy and fulfilling lives as they can. Not to make them just like everyone else. That's why I find it really gross for a professional to feel they have the place and the right to stipulate what is 'normal and appropriate' and what isn't. And any, single, solitary thing used in excess is bad. He points out 'porn' and 'games'. I could point out 'caffeine' or 'sleep' or God knows what else. It's a dumb endeavor to generalize a singular activity as the downfall of a group of people. As dumb as defining a group of people as only being held to one standard.

Also, just another thing, his perception of a 'man' ignores culture and environment. It just assumes all men are given equal opportunities, in the same environment, and should grow to be the same 'type' of man. UGH.

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#9 Posted by DarthOrange (3908 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:


Also, just another thing, he's perception of a 'man' ignores culture and environment. It just assumes all men are given equal opportunities, in the same environment, and should grow to be the same 'type' of man. UGH.

If you ain't white, you ain't right.

#10 Posted by JasonR86 (9729 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:


Also, just another thing, he's perception of a 'man' ignores culture and environment. It just assumes all men are given equal opportunities, in the same environment, and should grow to be the same 'type' of man. UGH.

If you ain't white, you ain't right.

Yeah, that's what Philip seems to think.

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#11 Posted by Aetheldod (3736 posts) -

Tho I couldnt open the link ... I see it quite comical what people thinks what a "grown men" is , and I havent seen any indication of any sorth of difference with a mans age and our idiotic behavior. Both old and young get drunk for stupid reasons , old and young celebrate teams of people that do what they cant ... so on and so forth. I never met what they call a mature adult in my life. (if such a thing even exists)

#12 Posted by TheHT (11820 posts) -

Created the Stanford Prison Experiment and is railing against video games and porn?

Sounds like a fun guy.

#13 Posted by audioBusting (1649 posts) -

Do you have any recommendations for good blogs/websites/books about psychology and psychiatry, then? Other writers who talk about psychology without being gross? All I read is your blog and The Last Psychiatrist, and I could use some more reading on the topic.

#14 Edited by JasonR86 (9729 posts) -

Do you have any recommendations for good blogs/websites/books about psychology and psychiatry, then? Other writers who talk about psychology without being gross? All I read is your blog and The Last Psychiatrist, and I could use some more reading on the topic.

I unfortunately don't have many resources. A good writer to read from though is Irvin Yalom. He's written a few really good books about psychotherapy from his perspective and they are really well done. Just remember that, like with my blogs, he's writing from his own perspective with his own biases.

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#15 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

I've just now realized that you're essentially paid to Social Link from 9-5. How many Persona evolutions have you witnessed?

#16 Posted by JasonR86 (9729 posts) -

I've just now realized that you're essentially paid to Social Link from 9-5. How many Persona evolutions have you witnessed?

I get to S-Link of about 8 most of the time. 9 and 10 are done by the clients after therapy is done so it's a little unfortunate for me. I have to assume they reached 9 and 10 on their own.

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#17 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

@video_game_king said:

I've just now realized that you're essentially paid to Social Link from 9-5. How many Persona evolutions have you witnessed?

I get to S-Link of about 8 most of the time. 9 and 10 are done by the clients after therapy is done so it's a little unfortunate for me. I have to assume they reached 9 and 10 on their own.

Wait, they Social Link on their own? How's that even work? Don't most characters live an independent life after you've maxed their shit and gotten their sentimental pacifier that can apparently summon Norse demons or some shit?

#18 Edited by JasonR86 (9729 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

@video_game_king said:

I've just now realized that you're essentially paid to Social Link from 9-5. How many Persona evolutions have you witnessed?

I get to S-Link of about 8 most of the time. 9 and 10 are done by the clients after therapy is done so it's a little unfortunate for me. I have to assume they reached 9 and 10 on their own.

Wait, they Social Link on their own? How's that even work? Don't most characters live an independent life after you've maxed their shit and gotten their sentimental pacifier that can apparently summon Norse demons or some shit?

Because the impact of the relationship we cultivated together continues even if we don't work together anymore.

/video_game_king realizes something new within himself.

*ching!*

"Thou art thou and whatnot..."

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#19 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

Because the impact of the relationship we cultivated together continues even if we don't work together anymore.

/video_game_king realizes something new within himself.

*ching!*

"Thou art thou and whatnot..."

My Persona has evolved from Shin to Zanza.

#20 Edited by Brodehouse (10134 posts) -

Sounds like a typical traditional doucher who wants men back in the coal mine, slaving away at unsatisfying, unfulfilling labor in order to meet society's idea of what it is to be male, adopting the virtues of self-sacrifice and stoicism in place of any personal development.

Men back in the coal mine, women back in the kitchen. Fuck him.

#21 Posted by joshwent (2353 posts) -

So back in nomadic and tribal times (a.k.a. almost the entire history of human civilization up to a few centuries ago) when a boy would live with his parents for his whole life, they were all unmotivated little pansy wimpy men? That neolithic porn was pretty hot...

Seriously though, that reads like a manifesto the FBI would have found hidden in some serial killer's stash of baby bones. It's horrifying that because this guy has a Ph. d. after his name, anyone out there might take him seriously.

Oh well, at least someone scared of "The Jackass Series" makes me feel nice and young again.

#22 Posted by TruthTellah (9481 posts) -

Shown once again, intelligence has little to do with wisdom. It was a mistake for him to express flawed personal opinion as scientifically-supported fact.

#23 Edited by Yummylee (22576 posts) -

Huh, weird coincidence as I'm currently reading through his book detailing that very Stanford Project Experiment (which in itself was a weird coincidence because i bought the book after seeing The Experiment, which is sorta based upon its events, without initially realising the connection). #CONSPIRACY

And er, yeah, with the stuff that happens in the book and now this, Zimbardo now seems like all the more of a crazy nut.

#24 Posted by joshwent (2353 posts) -

@yummylee said:

Huh, weird coincidence as I'm currently reading through his book detailing that very Stanford Project Experiment ...

Fascinating stuff, but best taken with a large spoonful of skepticism.

#25 Edited by Sanity (1951 posts) -

Ugh, its not the baby boom anymore, not everyone wants to settle down and have a family these days and between rising costs and lack of jobs its no wonder so many people still are stuck with there parents, women included. Besides, every situation is different, you cant just draw circles around a age group and say x reason is causing the problem, its just speculation at best. I dont think theirs ever been a period in history where the generation gap was so different, we basically advanced more in a span of 20 years technologically speaking then we did in the entire history of our species, i think theirs going to be some growing pains.

#26 Posted by spraynardtatum (3728 posts) -
So first he's defining what a 'guy/adult male' is. Which is gross. There is no definition. There is no ideal. People can be whatever they want to be. Putting one's own definition of anything relating to another is mistake #1 in working with clients. You don't do that shit. Ever. It's disgusting. People are whoever they wish to be period the end.

I like your style.

#27 Edited by Scampbell (501 posts) -

I recently watched Das Experiment ("The Experiment" in case you haven't guessed).

I haven't watched the American version, though I've heard it is inferior. The movie is only based on the Stanford Prison Experiment, which makes sense to me as in hindsight, as the actions of the characters seemed circumstantially a bit extreme. Still, It was a really gripping story especially due to an excellent performance by lead Moritz Bleibtreu.

After reading your summary I didn't feel like reading his blog for the sake of sanity. Though I'm still gonna add my own two cent nonetheless, just because I feel like.

It seems to me if it true (not that that I would base this on the same factors as Philip Zimbardo) that men are maturing more slowly, though I think this is the case for humans in general. Humans are after all, Superaltricial. Meaning we mature relatively slowly allowing us be able to learn new "tricks" long past childhood. Compared this to Superprecocial, where an animal can do pretty much do everything an adult would be able to pretty much as soon as it is born.

It would make sense as we are able to live longer and longer, and have no need to hunt for food, that we would also mature more slowly. Obviously evolution doesn't work as quickly as that, but it makes sense that is the tendency.

Of course our governments and cooperations wants us to to finish our education and get working as soon as possible. Which is probably the greatest threat to our planet. I'll leave it at that as not to get too sidetracked.