ABC turns programming over to Obama!?

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chrissedoff

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#51  Edited By chrissedoff
@Suicrat said:
" @chrissedoff: America is not strictly privatized. If it were, healthcare would be more affordable in the U.S.And I simply made the point that the government is rationing the supply of healthcare. This is not intellectually dishonest, it's a statement of fact. "
your first sentence is an outrageous claim, which runs directly contrary to even the most rudimentary understanding of how insurance companies work.
the rest shows that you have no understanding whatsoever of what the term "intellectually dishonest" means.

is it time to stop taking you seriously now?
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Suicrat

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#52  Edited By Suicrat
@chrissedoff:O come now, Chris, you're being a fool.

Just because private insurance companies exist, does not mean a system is completely privatized. If that were the case, healthcare in Canada would be 'Private' too with the existence of the supplemental health insurance companies.
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WilliamRLBaker

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#53  Edited By WilliamRLBaker
@MB said:
" @Out_On_Bail: Health care in America is so bad, people from all over the world come here to receive the absolute best when their own shitty socialized medicine programs put them on months or years long waiting lists. "
and yet nearly every other first world country outranks us in standard of living, and lower mortality rates...isn't that odd? with america being one of the last vestitages of unethical doctors who want money more then to follow their hypocratic oath....maybe if we do go socialized healthcare more of those countries will finally get more doctors so people don't gotta wait in line.

America's health system is far more currupt then any other countries with lobbyist and pill pushers in every doctors office saying hey doctor you need to carry this medicene cause it cures this and only gives 100 or so side affects, Americas health system is no longer built upon curing people, or preventing sickness its built upon if someones sick keep them sick as long as possible so we can wring them dry...no insurance? lol fuck them.
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kitsune_conundrum

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@Suicrat said:
@chrissedoff said:

How would you deal with profiteering in this? From what I can discern, privatized healthcare seems to be an oligopoly in the states. With that, bargaining power would be on the side of the industry rather than the recipient. Legislation controls the executive, but does it work with the corporate? Wonder what if every planholder is considered a shareholder?



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RsistncE

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#55  Edited By RsistncE
@PercyChuggs said:
"
@Out_On_Bail said:
" @MB: So your implying that our health care system is good in America, MB?  Because I think your the minority on that.  Health care in this country is an industry, which is wrong.  I agree with you, people do come here from all over to get help, but they have money.  If you dont have money: good luck.  Health care should be a service, not an industry.  
Yeah, and people are supposed to PAY for services. Sorry, I don't want to pay another $30 every paycheck so that Sally Crack Whore can get her VD cleared up so she can go back on the street and turn some more tricks. "
Wow. It's no wonder the world is so fucked. People like you exist.
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Capitalism

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#56  Edited By Capitalism

most lobbyists push for regulations. for example, GE pushed for environmental regulations. Why? So its harder for new companies to come from nothing. Funny thing is, the interior design field tried a similar thing a while back, trying to get a central body to regulate everything despite the fact that there was no problem.

our medicine problems comes from our copyright and patent laws. if i made advil, tylonal has to be a little different otherwise i can sue. this is why we have so many drugs with so many different side effects, its the government.....

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Suicrat

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#57  Edited By Suicrat
@kitsune_conundrum: I personally wouldn't try to stamp out profiteering. Profit is what drives people to make an industry out of providing value to others.

Also, it's an oligopoly because of the way healthcare is divided by state lines, and the way health insurance providers get paid from both ends. By government subsidies and by premium payments.

I don't pretend that the world's best healthcare would suddenly become available to even the poorest citizen in the U.S. if it were fully privatized, I just know that the value of bringing 300 000 000 people under the same umbrella is not equal to the value-generating potential of people left to solve problems without the assistance (or penalty, depending on what your role is) of state-based coercion.
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kitsune_conundrum

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@Suicrat said:
" @kitsune_conundrum: I personally w..........
I don't know, that would require alot of faith for people to do the right thing or at least what they are supposed to do. People are scum when I last checked.
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Capitalism

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#59  Edited By Capitalism

i dont think people are scum

people are stupid, thats for sure. but scum? i dont think so.

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Suicrat

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#60  Edited By Suicrat
@kitsune_conundrum: Yeah, but they also need other people. If the highest-quality healthcare providers neglected to offer a stripped down, more affordable plan for the working classes, that would just create a market opportunity for another enterprising set of individuals.
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kitsune_conundrum

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@Suicrat said:
" @kitsune_conundrum: Yeah, but they also need .....
But it's an oligopoly, barriers of entry would prevent this. A perfect capitalist world depends on a competitive market. Real world economics are a bummer in most theories.
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Suicrat

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#62  Edited By Suicrat

Real world economics also has the reality of governments in the back pockets of corporations, lobby groups that get the government to help prevent competitors from entering the market.

A free market requires a government whose role is the deterrence of the initiation of force and the use of fraud. Under 'democracy' (as we have come to know it: i.e., an alphabet soup of special interests) it is indeed quite difficult.

But that does not justify further expansion of government power, and further expansion of government involvement in economics



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kitsune_conundrum

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@Suicrat said:
 deterrence of the initiation of force and the use of fraud.
This term has been spunned and misled by both corporates and executives I doubt the common civilian/citizen can do anything about it anymore.

All systems will fail and have failed because at the end of the day, have a common foundation. They are run by people. That is why it is vital that the law is always above all man but even so, that system is still run by people and laws are still just twisted by the fattest counsels. Ugh, I hated my internship at the firm.

"The world is not mine to change, but it has certainly changed me."


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Suicrat

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#64  Edited By Suicrat

That's my whole point. In a system of economics that isn't just a backdoor handshake between two sets of suits (one representing the 'private sector' the other representing the 'public sector') you would be free to do something about it. If you were to fail in your endeavours, no one would be forced to help you, but the privatization of risk is worth the privatization of reward. The opposite is not true, in my humble opinion.

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kitsune_conundrum

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@Suicrat said:

1. So what do you think about all the bailout stuff in your economy these days? AIG, GM..etc

2. Moore's Sicko - comment?

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Suicrat

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#66  Edited By Suicrat

1) Waste of money, shameful abrogation of contract rights, and further evidence that government intervention in the economy makes the government beholden to the largest economic actors in a society.

2) Never saw it

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kitsune_conundrum

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1. What about all the post bailout AIG fiasco?

2. You should, its interesting at least.

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Suicrat

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#68  Edited By Suicrat

1) Well, considering that governments around the world are still acting on the 'too big to fail' policy, the notion that we're in a post-bailout period is somewhat specious.

2) I saw Bowling for Columbine and I saw Roger and Me, and I liked neither. How much different is Sicko anyway?

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kitsune_conundrum

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1. But the people expect governments to intervene when such huge risks are involved. Sometimes its just a rock and a hard place.

2. Same old Moore stuff, just at a different industry this time.

3. Did Giantbomb just die for a few seconds?

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salcliff

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#70  Edited By salcliff

WAKE UP!!!!!  You need to come out of this Obama induced stupor. The" All Barrack Channel "(ABC) are playing you for fools. This whole white house broadcast is nothing but a staged scam. Do you honestly think that Obama is not going to know every question that will be asked and the person who is going to ask it? He will also know every answer before hand because it will be on his teleprompter to read. The true apponents of this so called health care plan are not going to be allowed to be there. You won't hear the other side of the story and there is always another side of the story. Obama doesn't care about your health care or even if you  live or die. He just wants to have control of every facet of your life. To make you dependant on the Government.  He's going to tell you that you can keep your insurance if you want to  and then undercut your insurance companies by providing a lower price at first . Much like Walmart did when they moved into a town and undercut mom and pop businesses and offering lower prices until they ran them out of business and then raised there prices back up again. How long has it been since you have seen the rolling back prices sign at Walmart. If Obama gets his socialized medicine passed then at first the prices will be so low that the private insurance companies won't be able to compete. then when they have everyone on the government plan. the quality of service will go down. But, the price will not go down because just like in England it will be illigal to get your own insurance or see the doctor of your choice and just like England, Canada and all the other socialized plans out there, you will have to be on a waiting list to get treated. You need to wake up and see what is really going on.