#1 Posted by Legion_ (1555 posts) -

What up duders.

I'm a avid fan of Community, and as so, I've seen and heard a lot of hate for season four. People all over the place are saying that the show sucks now that Dan Harmon is out. And I have to say, that is CRAZY TALK.

First, Harmon was a fucking dick. The way he treated Chevy Chase is so disrespectful that I have basically no goodwill for that man. Even the rest of the cast have stated that they support Chase in his position against Harmon.

And to adress the people saying season four is bad just because Harmon is gone; have you forgotten all the terrible episodes he made? Video game episode, Troy's birthday, D&D, first christmas episode, and basically the entire back half of season three. The Chang empire stuff was so fucking stupid.

What do you guys think? Is the hate justified, or is it just hipsters who spawn mandatory hate? Here's a hint; it's the latter.

#2 Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw (6506 posts) -

It's still a great show. But it's a show in a definite state of transition, as it feels like they're trying to tone down the completely bonkers way Dan Harmon took season 3 off the rails. I think people are forgetting just how head-scratchingly bizarre season 3 became. The show is definitely still in a period of hit-and-miss episodes, but it's a damn sight better than just about every other generic comedy out there and about roughly 2.5 kajillion times better than the latest Biggest Celebrity Island Idol Cabbage Loser Bidding War Tuna Fish Hunter. That's a thing, right?

Moderator
#3 Edited by Wrighteous86 (3824 posts) -

The show isn't the same, and it is in a rough patch, but it can still be good. We'll see.

Harmon is a a pushy director, by most accounts, yes. But Chevy Chase is a LEGENDARY dick, and it's a well-known secret that everyone that works with him hates him - from way back in the SNL days to now. Respect is a two-way street, and Chevy Chase has bashed Harmon, and the show that is making him relevant again, many times. He refused to do scenes at the last possible second, he was constantly not showing up to set, and he complained that the show was too "deep" and "sentimental", the things that made it a cult favorite.

The rest of the cast hasn't supported Chase, by most accounts, they seem to hint that they support Harmon. They try to avoid talking about Chase any chance they can because they don't want to call him out. And, he's such a dick, after chasing off Harmon, he wound up quitting the show anyway.

Granted, Harmon's work wasn't perfect, but it made Community what it was, and it's not the same now. Some of the changed perception might be psychological due to knowing that Harmon's gone, but it does feel different. It might be a coincidence that these episodes were just a bad streak, and cheesy obvious pandering plots, or it may be that you can't capture someone else's essence as hard as you try.

Of the two, Harmon had a greater effect on Community's success. It's not awful now, but it's not the same. Let's hope that changes.

#4 Posted by Andorski (5393 posts) -

The Dungeons and Dragons episode is bad? What the fuck am I reading here?!?

#5 Posted by MentalDisruption (1677 posts) -

@andorski said:

The Dungeons and Dragons episode is bad? What the fuck am I reading here?!?

My thoughts exactly.

#6 Posted by wjb (1718 posts) -

I'll still watch the show until it's over -- watching this week's episode right now, actually -- but it's been slightly downhill since season 2, I think. The characters have stagnated lately, or worse, like with Annie, revert back to how they used to be. She had grown so much, but now she's back to constantly obsessing over Winger. As much as I loved Community, I wouldn't have been too bummed if it never came back.

And say what you will about Harmon, but he made the show what it was (is). As far as the Harmon/Chase "feud", it sounded like they were both awful. Much like Harmon, Chase has always been perceived as a dickhead.

#7 Posted by ArbitraryWater (12244 posts) -

@andorski said:

The Dungeons and Dragons episode is bad? What the fuck am I reading here?!?

This. Exactly. That episode is fantastic.

For what it's worth, I found the German episode to be pretty great, but I do feel like this season has been underwhelming thus far. Not too familiar with the behind the scenes stuff, but it all sounds messy and definitley part of why the show is the way it is, though it probably doesn't help that Harmon's departure is so keenly noted. Either way, I hope this season will get back on its feet so the show can be cancelled with dignity. Because there is no way the show isn't getting cancelled at the end of the season.

#8 Edited by NegativeCero (3050 posts) -

I missed the last episode, but I'm not too thrilled about the episodes I did see. I'll still watch, though.

And while I'm sure it isn't applicable to all people, being demanding isn't exactly a bad quality. Especially in a director. I've been watching some panels and interviews after finishing watching Buffy and Angel, and people consistently described Joss Whedon as "demanding" and "genius." I just think it means you know what you want, and you expect people to work hard for you.

#9 Posted by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

@andorski said:

The Dungeons and Dragons episode is bad? What the fuck am I reading here?!?

My thoughts exactly.

Yeah, pretty much every episode he named except for maybe the christmas one was great.

#10 Posted by TheFreeMan (2712 posts) -

I haven't been watching season four, but Chevy Chase's reputation as a huge asshole is widespread in the industry and, like, man, all those episodes were great so i disagree. I'll admit that season 3 was kind of hit-and-miss but still, damn, man.

#11 Posted by TurboMan (7816 posts) -

Episodes 2 and 5 this season have been great. The show is still capable of doing great things without Harmon around.

#12 Edited by Legion_ (1555 posts) -

@andorski said:

The Dungeons and Dragons episode is bad? What the fuck am I reading here?!?

This. Exactly. That episode is fantastic.

For what it's worth, I found the German episode to be pretty great, but I do feel like this season has been underwhelming thus far. Not too familiar with the behind the scenes stuff, but it all sounds messy and definitley part of why the show is the way it is, though it probably doesn't help that Harmon's departure is so keenly noted. Either way, I hope this season will get back on its feet so the show can be cancelled with dignity. Because there is no way the show isn't getting cancelled at the end of the season.

That's probably true. I can't see any way it's going to stay on the air. I just hope they wrap up the story lines, and don't leave them hanging to strong arm the network.

#13 Edited by GS_Dan (1398 posts) -

@andorski said:

The Dungeons and Dragons episode is bad? What the fuck am I reading here?!?

My thoughts exactly.

Same here, that episode was my favourite of all of them.

#14 Posted by AiurFlux (903 posts) -

Most people I've heard, Gillian Jacobs and Joel McHale spring to mind, seem to hint that Chevy Chase is a real asshole to work with. Actually a lot of people that have worked with him in the past say that he's a real asshole to work with. So I doubt that "the rest of the cast" support Chase.

I remember watching the US Open a few years ago and Chase was in the crowd being his usual dickish self. Just from seeing him in the crowd sitting there, through a television screen no less, you can get a sense that he's a fucking prick.

#15 Posted by killacam (1278 posts) -
@gs_dan said:

@mentaldisruption said:

@andorski said:

The Dungeons and Dragons episode is bad? What the fuck am I reading here?!?

My thoughts exactly.

Same here, that episode was my favourite of all of them.

troll thread

#16 Edited by Legion_ (1555 posts) -

@killacam said:
@gs_dan said:

@mentaldisruption said:

@andorski said:

The Dungeons and Dragons episode is bad? What the fuck am I reading here?!?

My thoughts exactly.

Same here, that episode was my favourite of all of them.

troll thread

I don't understand what you see in that episode. It doesn't have a single funny bit, except for the part where Chang is a dark elf. Maybe if you're a huge fan of D&D, you might get a hard on for the episode, but that's just because D&D being used in popular culture, and not because it's funny on it's own. That's my thoughts at least. Found the video game episode to be equally bad.

#17 Posted by ShaggE (6814 posts) -

I couldn't disagree more with most of what you posted, but the important bit I agree with completely: Season 4 is a different show in a way, but it's still a damn good one. The only episode that I found truly terrible so far was the season opener. That was actually painful to sit through, and may be the worst in the entire series. But after that, it's been solid, if nothing amazing.

#18 Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw (6506 posts) -

I just watched season 4's Thanksgiving episode and thought it was fantastic. One particular little moment, when Joel McHale is talking to his dad and mentions texting, really got to me. I'd argue that's one of the best episodes to date. Maybe not THE best, but it's definitely up there.

Moderator
#19 Posted by Aegon (5909 posts) -

I just watched season 4's Thanksgiving episode and thought it was fantastic. One particular little moment, when Joel McHale is talking to his dad and mentions texting, really got to me. I'd argue that's one of the best episodes to date. Maybe not THE best, but it's definitely up there.

It got to you why? Because you type texts to no-one?

#20 Edited by myketuna (1770 posts) -

I find the fourth season to be ok so far. I don't think it's terrible, but nothing has really grabbed me so far. Hopefully they pick it up before this season ends. Why?

@arbitrarywater said:

Because there is no way the show isn't getting cancelled at the end of the season.

That's why.

#21 Posted by pyromagnestir (4344 posts) -

@myketuna said:

I find the fourth season to be ok so far. I don't think it's terrible, but nothing has really grabbed me so far. Hopefully they pick it up before this season ends. Why?

@arbitrarywater said:

Because there is no way the show isn't getting cancelled at the end of the season.

That's why.

You guys might underestimate just how shitty NBC is doing. There's an okay chance Community will be back. Whether I want it to be back? I haven't liked these first 5 episodes much at all, so I'm not sure.

And yeah all the specific episodes mentioned in this thread are among my favorites of the series, minus the Christmas one. And I don't like D&D either, so that's not it.

#22 Posted by mtcantor (951 posts) -

Love the show. Don't care about the drama. New season has been good, but it definitely feels different. Getting wackier and wackier. They need to find their new voice.

I hope the show comes back, but I will be OK with it if it doesn't. There's a LOT of great Community out there already.

Also, Chevy Chase is an asshole. It is known.

#23 Posted by MarkWahlberg (4610 posts) -

I mean, it's been kinda crap after season 1. There've been good episodes, more so in season 3, but it's been nowhere near as consistently good as it was the first season.

#24 Posted by ReCkLeSs_X (461 posts) -

People that want to hate the show will hate the show. Season 1 will forever be the best, but the current season certainly isn't unwatchable.

#25 Posted by spiceninja (3075 posts) -

All the episodes you listed as bad are some of the best episodes in the series. The fuck, duder?

#26 Edited by strikeAG (14 posts) -

@legion_ said:

And to adress the people saying season four is bad just because Harmon is gone; have you forgotten all the terrible episodes he made? Video game episode, Troy's birthday, D&D, first christmas episode, and basically the entire back half of season three. The Chang empire stuff was so fucking stupid.

lolwut.

This was a great sitcom and while I'll be disappointed when it's eventually (inevitably?) cancelled I do look forward to removing ratings, scheduling drama and fuck, network TV in general from my circle of interest. Because that shit is the fucking worst and thanks to Community, I've spent way too much of my thought processes on NBC. Ugh.

#27 Edited by Legion_ (1555 posts) -

All the episodes you listed as bad are some of the best episodes in the series. The fuck, duder?

Best episodes include the pilot, alternate timelines, paintball episodes, pool, chicken finger goodfelleas, and of course, law and order.

#28 Edited by EkajArmstro (398 posts) -

OP is so wrong it hurts.

#29 Posted by Legion_ (1555 posts) -
#30 Edited by oldenglishC (1024 posts) -

The main problem is they've dove so far down the crazy hole that the characters aren't even people anymore. It's turned into a show about space aliens trying to act human by imitating you tube videos.

#31 Posted by Legion_ (1555 posts) -

The main problem is they've dove so far down the crazy hole that the characters aren't even people anymore. It's turned into a show about space aliens trying to act human by imitating you tube videos.

Yeah, I just revisited the first season. That season is just so much better than the rest of them. It's truly a masterpiece.

#32 Edited by Royce_McCutcheon (224 posts) -

Dan Harmon does seem like a giant cock, while Chevy Chase thinks he's a modern day Peter Sellers and comedic genius. But all he seems to ever want is to do Clark Griswold or Fletch or a composite of the two. When assholes collide I guess, now none of them are on the show.

As for the show itself, every show ebbs and flows and characters change all the time, but on Community it all seems for the worse. Like Britta going from the voice of reason to a borderline retarded stoner who can barely remember her own name, Chang going from the sarcastic, angry dude to a manic depressive (and again, borderline retarded) lunatic, and Pierce having no character whatsoever, just showing up every five minutes to say something mildly racist/sexist/homophobic. And things overall just morphed into this Esoteric Abed Show, that was completely done to death, and the show just disappeared up Dan Harman and the writing staff's own asses.

I understand they thought for all money the show was about to be cancelled, and threw all caution to wind in that third season, but man, what a wreck it became.