#1 Edited by Commando (1878 posts) -

Haven't seen a thread on it yet, but it's turned into something pretty controversial. They're definitely the strictest immigration laws in the country. They were passed when republicans reclaimed the super-majority for the first time since Alabama's reconstruction after the Civil War.

I've even seen some reporters from MSNBC and USA Today comparing it to the Jim Crow laws during the Civil Rights movement(Jim Crow laws were the 'separate but equal' thing in the south). I think that's pretty naive of them though; we're just enforcing the laws that the federal government has failed to enforce by cracking down on the illegal immigrant problem in our country.

To summarize the new laws, it requires law enforcement to check peoples immigration status. This includes routine traffic stops. So if you were pulled over for speeding, the police officer will check your immigration status if he suspects you're in this country illegally. The school laws haven't been passed yet, but when they are passed they'll require public schools to check the immigration status of ALL students, not just students with certain skin colors. Same with the worker laws, which will require businesses to check the immigration status of all workers.

I've lived in Alabama my entire life. And to be honest it hasn't really been a very popular place for illegal immigrants(compared to Texas, Arizona, etc). Most of their jobs were farm workers doing hard labor. Roofers, construction, and landscapers mostly look like your typical legal citizens to me.

But since the new law was passed, the illegal aliens have almost completely fled the state out of fear. Now there's thousands vacancies on farms and the farms are starting to hire legal citizens. In my opinion this is a good thing. Unemployed legal citizens seeking employment can now be hired on farms doing hard labor. My cousin actually got one of the jobs on a cotton farm.

I'm just wondering what the rest of you think about it. Since I know there's a lot of liberals on these forums, I'm curious to see how they react since my state is one of the most conservative states in the nation.

#2 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

I hope your cousin is willing to do the same hard work for the same pay, because if he isnt, and no one else in your state is, then the farms in your state are not going to be able to compete with farms from other states.

#3 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

Guess legal citizens are going to have to do the labor no one else wants to do now.

#4 Posted by myketuna (1655 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

I hope your cousin is willing to do the same hard work for the same pay, because if he isnt, and no one else in your state is, then the farms in your state are not going to be able to compete with farms from other states.

Being a first-gen Mexican-American, I am split between worlds. I see the point of illegal immigration being "illegal" and thus "send those Mexican back", but I also see the biggest problem with that which is Dag's point here. No one wants to do the shit that illegals do. That's the sole reason my dad got his first job here when he hopped the line. The work/job pays shit anyway, but it's usually better than what the same work pays in Mexico and if it isn't, there's still the glimmer of hope that one day their future kids might go to college. *ahem* Like me.

But I don't know, it's whatever. I don't like the "solution" being used in AL or AZ, but I see their point. In the end, immigrants will do what they've done in both of those states and spread. THE DARKNESS IS SPREADING! lol.

#5 Posted by yinstarrunner (1182 posts) -

I think that comparing the act of checking people's immigration status to the induction of heinous Jim Crow laws is completely asinine.

That's all i really have to add to the conversation.

#6 Posted by xdaknightx69 (448 posts) -

whats funny about this is that America was founded by immigrants

Online
#7 Posted by bybeach (4732 posts) -

@Commando: I'm usually a flaming liberal, and time will tell how it all shakes out. Personally the immigration situation does bother me, because ppl do come into this country illegally, and are not committed to anything except to make a buck. But in my mind, they may, if the situation could be actually regulated, be of service to themselves and this country. Again, we will see how the job bit really unfolds. My immediate fear isn't these ppl. who I bet are for the main, but not always, decent. That is, besides identity theft. It is the cartels and such that are (mostly) still on the other side. Already law enforcement individuals here though are falling to bribes and such, and we cannot have this in our country. If the US in some part or form becomes corrupt, we lose. I personally would decriminalize weed, and offer help to addicts. But it is insane to legalize meth(one of the worst drugs in the world), or even to be too slack about cocaine or heroin. So a problem, no matter if were are the big draw for this or whatever.

That said, I wish the feds would take the enforcement side seriously instead of politically. Yet I do favor such things as the dream act..we have to figure out where to rationally and again decently, draw the line. Also, this immigration issue build-up and cut loose, it is not at all new in our history. Laws and such were passed previously in big enactments, that were supposed to square this situation, and they have not.

#8 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

@xdaknightx69 said:

whats funny about this is that America was founded by immigrants

That's pretty hilarious.

#9 Posted by SSully (4129 posts) -

@xdaknightx69 said:

whats funny about this is that America was founded by immigrants

Yeah but we stole the land from the Indians fair and square, the illegals are just stealing out jobs. (Note, this post was 100% sarcasm)

#10 Posted by Gilbert64 (61 posts) -

I swear the US is the only country in the world were stopping illegal immigration is actually a controversial issue. Extra points for the doublespeak of 'undocumented workers'.

#11 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

So many Americans seem to be freaking out over immigrants and terrorists that they forgot what certain laws to restrict and attack those groups might do to their own rights.

America, the Land of the Free, the Home of the Brave, as long as you can show the cops your papers.

#12 Posted by golguin (3849 posts) -

I've heard that the state is going to have a problem with construction and farming jobs. I guess we'll see if people are really willing to do the shit jobs for the shit pay. My guess is they wont.

#13 Edited by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@Gilbert64 said:

I swear the US is the only country in the world were stopping illegal immigration is actually a controversial issue. Extra points for the doublespeak of 'undocumented workers'.

I know a few dutch/german people complaining about turkish people ALL THE TIME, so not especially? though it's not as bad there, obviously.

also this is a terrible law, but I guess you guys couldn't let Arizona beat you so...

#14 Posted by PSNgamesun (396 posts) -

I will compare this to the Jim crow laws in the sense that not all immigrants r mexicans or latin decent n let's face it this law is made for them. Yes this country has a big f ing problem with immigrants n they should fix it but us that r Americans that r Hispanics r bing cornered here if u don't see that u must be blind or just don't want to see it. N the part of who is going to work those shitty jobs...well people Americans will work those jobs I will compare it to a new toy. If the toy is too expensive no one will buy it...what happens then they lower the price. If no one works these jobs they will raise pay n then someone especially now a days will get this job. I just really feel even if most immigrants r from latin decent that Hispanics are being cornered n treated like immigrants this is not right at all

#15 Posted by TheHBK (5466 posts) -

@bybeach: Well you say making a buck as if they were working on Wallstreet. making a buck for them means being able to feed themselves and their families. Illegal or not, you can't really criticize someone for wanting to do that.

Online
#16 Posted by Turambar (6677 posts) -

Unlawful search and seizure is a thing.  I'm just sayin'.

#17 Posted by mikey87144 (1670 posts) -

These immigration laws are proving to mainstream Americans what most savvy Americans have known for years. Illegal immigrants are doing jobs most Americans are unwilling to do. How many people do you know who are willing to work in the hot sun for a couple of hours for shitty pay picking fruit? How many people do your friends know? Acquaintances? I don't know anyone.

#18 Posted by Turambar (6677 posts) -
@Gilbert64 said:

I swear the US is the only country in the world were stopping illegal immigration is actually a controversial issue. Extra points for the doublespeak of 'undocumented workers'.

Both China and Japan constantly complain about illegal immigrants from other East and South East Asian countries.  There's a reason why Turkey still isn't part of the EU.  And am I the only one that remembers that moment during the last British PM election where someone was demanding to know where all these poor undocumented East European workers were coming from?  
 
It's definitely not an America only issue.
#19 Posted by TheHBK (5466 posts) -

As much as we hate to admit it, the fact that they are illegal immigrants allows farmers to pay them low, and give us cheap food on the table.

With that said and this helpful video, I will say this.

Alabama sucks. Who wants to live there? Nobody. What is there? Nothing. Who even likes Alabama? Nobody. If a nuke went off tomorrow, the US would be pissed that we let it happen, but not really miss it.

Online
#20 Posted by DeanoXD (608 posts) -

i guess all the sister wives are safe now, lol i kid, i joke..... but seriously though

i truly believe if portions of the american public spent as much time and money worrying about health care, their economy, human rights, poverty, race relations they could get some real work done.

and by no means do i think i live in a perfect nation but i know i wouldn't want to live in the states.

#21 Posted by Gilbert64 (61 posts) -
@Animasta In europe they complain about legal immigration.
#22 Posted by benson (318 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Gilbert64 said:

I swear the US is the only country in the world were stopping illegal immigration is actually a controversial issue. Extra points for the doublespeak of 'undocumented workers'.

I know a few dutch/german people complaining about turkish people ALL THE TIME, so not especially? though it's not as bad there, obviously.

I don't know, I would argue that xenophobia towards illegal immigrants may be even worse in Europe since Islamophobia is thrown into the mix. The rethoric of racists around here is not just "their takkin ur jubs an' rappin our wumen", it's also "their gunna impose der muslamic sharia, soon we will be forced to praize to Hallamuahammet!".

#23 Posted by Turambar (6677 posts) -
@Gilbert64 said:
@Animasta In europe they complain about legal immigration.
But it stems from the same "they are coming over and stealing our jobs" mentality, which is at the source of these laws more so than the legal status of the immigrants themselves.
#24 Posted by xdaknightx69 (448 posts) -

@SSully said:

@xdaknightx69 said:

whats funny about this is that America was founded by immigrants

Yeah but we stole the land from the Indians fair and square, the illegals are just stealing out jobs. (Note, this post was 100% sarcasm)

one ill turn deserves another

Online
#25 Posted by Nightriff (4925 posts) -

@yinstarrunner said:

I think that comparing the act of checking people's immigration status to the induction of heinous Jim Crow laws is completely asinine. That's all i really have to add to the conversation.

I agree with yinstarrunner, comparing the laws to Jim Crow is crazy, those laws were created in separating people that, assumably, have the same rights. Not people who technically don't have rights at all.

#26 Posted by Marz (5646 posts) -

i've worked in the fields before during summer time in arizona, when i was a teenager... it's not easy and definately do not get paid alot.  So yeah it opens jobs but you really must be desperate if you want to work the fields.

#27 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@Commando: Its all good in theory, until the farmer have to realize the legal immigrants (or workers that want a job) will not work at the same pay as the illegals. Not only that, most of them, just simply cannot do the menial jobs at the same rate as the illegal immigrants. So while, some of it is indeed just a tough transition (like, people not used to the working conditions), They sure ain't gonna do it at the same pay especially when there is more demand for the job than there are qualified applicants.  
 
     
 
I'm not totally against the idea of cracking down on immigration, but it really seems the people that passed the bill did it without understanding what role illegal immigrants play. 
#28 Edited by sopranosfan (1935 posts) -

When I hear this argument I am always reminded of when somebody on TV said most people feel we should send them all home...... except the ones I know because they are OK. The Hispanic people that I have interacted with are some of the best people I have met with most being funny, hard working, and for the most part some of the friendliest people I have met bar none. I also don't know if any that I have met are illegal or not because in all honesty I don't personally care. I do however understand the illegal aspect of rewarding people that are technically breaking the law and therein lies the problem. I also recognize that some are involved in other illegal activities as well but I doubt it is much if any higher than the rest of America. I don't know if there is a good solution.

#29 Posted by canucks23 (1087 posts) -

lol... Alabama.

#30 Edited by Hellstrom (199 posts) -

Good.

All America should have similiar strict immigration laws to Canada. Noone should come to this nation illegaly bringing their shit to it. How much it cost states like Texas & California a year for medical care, incarceration, & education because of illegals is ridiculous. I can't stand people who act like nothing is happening because this nation is still not over its whole "white guilt" bs.

#31 Posted by Evilsbane (4544 posts) -

Hey the whole world is a fucked up place so we should all just--Oooh BF3 pretty!

#32 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@sopranosfan: a good solution is making it easier to legally immigrate to this country; have you seen the test they require you to take? it's fucking hard as shit and I wouldn't be able to do it.

#33 Edited by Hellstrom (199 posts) -

@xdaknightx69 said:

whats funny about this is that America was founded by immigrants

Study history.

Thats most present countries in the world. You think the modern English or Italians are the same ones who were there in ancient times? No they are the result of all the people who conquered/settled in these two nations over hundreds of years. Not even The Romans were always in Italy. Nor were the Swedes & Norwegians the first in Norway & Sweden. Nor were the Japanese the first in Japan. I could on about most nations.

#34 Posted by benson (318 posts) -

@Nightriff said:

@yinstarrunner said:

I think that comparing the act of checking people's immigration status to the induction of heinous Jim Crow laws is completely asinine. That's all i really have to add to the conversation.

I agree with yinstarrunner, comparing the laws to Jim Crow is crazy, those laws were created in separating people that, assumably, have the same rights. Not people who technically don't have rights at all.

Illegals HAVE rights.

#35 Posted by NTM (7286 posts) -

@xdaknightx69 said:

whats funny about this is that America was founded by immigrants

It's a bit different. This isn't the past when laws weren't set. Although I guess if you look at it in a naive way, it would seem a bit stupid. Unfortunately it's not as simple as that now.

#36 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

@Nightriff said:

@yinstarrunner said:

I think that comparing the act of checking people's immigration status to the induction of heinous Jim Crow laws is completely asinine. That's all i really have to add to the conversation.

I agree with yinstarrunner, comparing the laws to Jim Crow is crazy, those laws were created in separating people that, assumably, have the same rights. Not people who technically don't have rights at all.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

...all men are created equal...

...all men...

#37 Edited by Hellstrom (199 posts) -

@NTM said:

@xdaknightx69 said:

whats funny about this is that America was founded by immigrants

It's a bit different. This isn't the past when laws weren't set. Although I guess if you look at it in a naive way, it would seem a bit stupid. Unfortunately it's not as simple as that now.

I don't know why people always use the immigrant line. I can't understand it even as a non colonial (i am first generation). American citizens aren't immigrants their ancestors maybe but they aren't. Most Americans are also so uber mixed up that they can no longer fit into any specific nation phenotypicaly as a whole. Infact i'd say Americans are more distinct than either Canadians or Australians who could still pretty much fit in England.

The way i see it. If your family has been here since the colonial days and you're like 10% this 20% that 40% this too. Then you should start calling yourself American as you are something entirely distinct and unique to America.

#38 Edited by Commando (1878 posts) -

Here's a question for the people saying illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay:

Why should they get to enjoy more rights than a legal, tax-paying citizen? Like highways, schools, etc.

For example: I pay income taxes, and a portion of my taxes goes to fund my local public schools so that my kids can get a decent education. Why should they get to send their kids to public schools when they don't pay their share?

And the ones that do pay taxes usually steal the identity of a legal citizen. Like my aunt applied for a new job last year. She didn't get it because the records showed a woman in wisconsin using the SS#. An illegal alien had been using her social security number for the past 5 years. She went through hell getting it resolved, and it cost her a good job at a bank.

#41 Posted by NTM (7286 posts) -

@Hellstrom said:

@xdaknightx69 said:

whats funny about this is that America was founded by immigrants

Study history.

Thats most present countries in the world. You think the modern English or Italians are the same ones who were there in ancient times? No they are the result of all the people who conquered/settled in these two nations over hundreds of years. Not even The Romans were always in Italy. Nor were the Swedes & Norwegians the first in Norway & Sweden. Nor were the Japanese the first in Japan. I could on about most nations.

Exactly.

#42 Posted by sopranosfan (1935 posts) -

Also before this turns ugly and gets locked I have to post this.....

#43 Posted by Commando (1878 posts) -

@tfsteefs said:

They are paying taxes in the form of payroll taxes, income tax, sales tax etc. Saying they don't pay taxes (or steal the identity of somebody who does? What the fuck, this is BS) is absolutely wrong.

They steal thousands of identities every year. And the number grows every year.

#45 Posted by bybeach (4732 posts) -

@TheHBK said:

@bybeach: Well you say making a buck as if they were working on Wallstreet. making a buck for them means being able to feed themselves and their families. Illegal or not, you can't really criticize someone for wanting to do that.

No, I was thinking and expressing their loyalty to this country, and it's laws, more and conventions. I was also speaking of economic loyalty. The answer to me is they don't want to be busted for anything, if nothing else (unless for a sub-group of illegal immigrants the money is worth the risk) and except for necessities and to some extant services, the money they earn goes back to Mexico and Latin America, predominantly. In fact I do not see the correlation to both the ppl. and pigs on wall street. At all.

As far as I am concerned, the Immigration issue is not an easy not to crack. Justified fear of uncontrolled illegal immigration does not have to be the reserve of the bigoted, though I can see bigots flocking there, justified or not. But I think it naive to try to reduce this to a race or culture issue, in and of itself. The problem more in my mind is that the bigots and the prejudiced may make difficult a stance that this situation may truly not be a good one for the US. I see it in the same light I see the fact Mexican trucking firms may now compete for long distance hauling business in the US. Once again our working man takes it in the shorts, and the hiring will go for those willing to work for way less. Nor will the money spent be predominantly in the US, where we need it.

No easy answers. And we have ppl. here desperate for themselves and their families, ppl. who have lost their jobs. Charity begins at home..which is where my last donations at least have gone.

#46 Posted by eagles_band (159 posts) -

What!? States trying to do something the Federal government won't? Don't worry, Obama's got it covered, he's gonna sue Alabama! Such a problem solver.

#48 Posted by Commando (1878 posts) -

@eagles_band said:

What!? States trying to do something the Federal government won't? Don't worry, Obama's got it covered, he's gonna sue Alabama! Such a problem solver.

I know I did get a laugh when that was reported!