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#1 Posted by Grimhild (722 posts) -


#2 Posted by Grimhild (722 posts) -

So, I don't hate Batman, but it's always come across as being kind of hilarious to me. The Adam West and Tim Burton renditions were extremely stylized, so I didn't really think about it much. More of a "Teehee... thats fun," kind of thing. But with each new iteration of /gravellyvoice "The Dark Knight" it keeps getting more and more hilarious for me. Where most people see a "gritty" and dark vigilante justice movie, I see a guy running around in a cape, and bat ears, with little bat-themed contraptions and such... called Batman. It's friggin' adorable! And it's also not unlike the absurdity of "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" for me. But I also can't really get into the whole capes and tights thing in general, so that might be part of it. It's also kind of funny that there's this quasi, meta PR campaign to get people to call him /gravellvoice "The Dark Knight" instead of "BATMAAAAAN!"

My circles of friends that are into these types of things are pretty zealous about it, and tend to get a little annoyed when I can't restrain a giggle here and there if they happen to be watching one of the movies when I'm over at their house. Am I really being unreasonable in this?

Also, seriously, I think the whole Batman phenom is great. I'm not trying to bash on people's interests at all, I just find the notion that I'm supposed to take all these new, dark, gritty versions of BATMAAAN seriously incredibly funny. I know that I'm most likely the minority within this community that feels this way, but I can't be the only one, right? RIGHT? Hello?

#3 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

I retain that the animated version of Batman and the Joker from the awesome tv cartoon series and the newest video games are the best Batman things ever... I will fight to defend that opinion!

#4 Posted by Venatio (4493 posts) -

I love the movies and I take them pretty seriously, well the Nolan ones, but I see where you're coming from

#5 Posted by cmblasko (1354 posts) -

Do you have this issue with comic books in general, or is it just Batman? I don't see how you could enjoy any comic book (or movie tie-in) if you can't get past the silly costumes, sans stuff like Deadpool.

#6 Edited by pyromagnestir (4339 posts) -

It's impossible for me not to select "I like bacon" It's always the right answer.

That being said I like Batman most of all the comic characters who've crossed into mainstream, and I can take the movies reasonably seriously, I think. The thing that bothers me a bit about Batman is his "I don't kill people" policy. All those movies have crazy scenes with insane amounts of collateral damage that could easily kill someone like Batman driving on rooftops knocking through shit and sending it crashing to the streets below, and that bugs me about them.

But I can see where you're coming from. The point of suspension of disbelief differs from person to person, after all.

#7 Posted by notdavid (842 posts) -

I see what your saying, but the Nolan flicks still work for me. If the absurdity of a man dressed like a bat fighting a man dressed like a clown wasn't there, it would probably feel like another generic thriller.

#8 Posted by Hunter5024 (5982 posts) -

I think Year One and Batman Begins go to great lengths to defend the whole Bat motif and that they are successful in this defense. Yes it's silly when taken out of context, but that's only a problem for us because we get to see all of the characters exploits and are witnesses to Bruce Wayne's personal life. Imagine your a street thug in gotham city and the idea of some guy all in black going around masterfully beating the shit out of any and all criminals is probably pretty terrifying. It's a mind game, he's trying to make a symbol of fear. He's like The Undertaker!

#9 Posted by Vodun (2370 posts) -
#10 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8607 posts) -
 
But seriously, Batman is a fun series to follow on any medium because it usually has some complexity to it besides the standard capes.
The Joker is just the best villian ever and the 'gritty' movies were a nice change of pace from other super hero movies, which I found too bland.
Doesn't mean I can watch them twice however, his voice and silly masked charade is making sure of that.
#11 Posted by Lukeweizer (2771 posts) -

I didn't really like "The Dark Knight". So I'm going into the new one with somewhat lower expectations. And I'm getting a real "The 1% is the enemy! VIVA LA 99%!" vibe from it too. Worried it's just going to be some big political message.

#12 Edited by Grimhild (722 posts) -

@cmblasko:

They're not really my type of comic, so I don't read them. I tend to stick to things like 100 Bullets, Preacher, Crossed, and Hack/Slash, when I want a guilty pleasure. And It's not that I have issues with them really, I just find the concept of taking it seriously almost impossible. It would be like talking to someone at a party, lamenting their trials and tribulations while wearing one of those umbrella hats and giant novelty glasses.

And, yes, the comic-book movie tie-ins in general are a bit of a hurdle for me, but not as much as "The Dark Night," since they're still kind of self-aware of being about superheros. Case in point, Deadpool is one of the few "tights/Marvel" characters I can kind of get into since he's consistently breaking the 4th wall.

@TaliciaDragonsong:

I specifically said "am I alone in thinking" nyah nyah nyah :P

#13 Edited by TheJohn (552 posts) -

The Bale gravelvoice broke "The Dark Knight" for me

Edit for clarity: I agree with OP. "Dark" knight is silly. I like Batman, but I like the kind of Batman that acknowledges that he is silly

#14 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8607 posts) -
@Grimhild: Gah, I expected you would do that. Curse you for ruining the image relevance! ^^
#15 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@Grimhild: The problem with Batman is that he doesn't fucking kill people. I've never liked batman that much because he's a one dimensional character, at least in the moral aspect. The villains were always awesome though.

#16 Posted by Grimhild (722 posts) -

@Vodun said:

@Grimhild: Yeah, this "new" phenomenon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Knight_Returns

I didn't say "new phenom," silly goose. I said "the whole Batman phenom," meaning all of it. I was referring to the newer Nolan movies that are pushing for a decidedly darker, grittier, realistic vibe, which is just hard for me to take seriously. That's all. Sheesh.

The first iteration where he was a detective he did. And I forgot which Nolan one it is, but he totally sticks dynamite down some thug's pants with the fuse burning and walks away. Totally a murderer. ;)

#17 Posted by IAmNotBatman (656 posts) -

Bacon's PRETTY FUCKING AWESOME.

#18 Posted by stryker1121 (1592 posts) -

I like the Batman mythos very much, but yeah i suppose it's a tad silly (though i picked the bacon response). Don't love Bale as hay fever-suffering Bats, either. But TDKR is a definite must-see this summer, as long as some a-hole doesn't ruin the ending.

#19 Posted by Vodun (2370 posts) -

@Grimhild: Yep, was just pointing out that the dark n' gritty version isn't new.

#20 Edited by Ares42 (2800 posts) -

After having gone on somewhat of a superhero movie spree I've come to one conclusion, the hero is inconsequential to the movie. For a superhero movie to be good there needs to be a good villain. All of the heroes are kinda silly and one trick ponies, it's the villains however that can be interesting. A good villain is sorta like a more complex hero as they've got all the same stuff going for them but also play off the constant of the hero.

#21 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4860 posts) -

Nice flamebait.

#22 Posted by bvilleneuve (266 posts) -

The absurdity of Batman is inseparable from the character itself. It's like Grant Morrison said in a Playboy interview once, about how at his basis Batman is this rich guy who goes out at night and beats up junkies. It's ridiculous, but that doesn't mean really good, really serious stories can't be told about it.

All that said, I lovee the Nolan movies and I take them seriously because they're really well-conceived, well-made movies all around. I wouldn't want them to cause the exclusion of all other interpretations of the Bat-Man, but they are one of many valid takes.

#23 Posted by Grimhild (722 posts) -

@GunslingerPanda:

Nah, flamebait would be if I said "You're an idiot if you like Batman," which I didn't. Clearly said that I think the whole Batman thing is fun, but that I find the dark and gritty portrayal funny, wanted to see if that's really so weird since I'm the black sheep amongst most of my friends.

#24 Posted by alternate (2720 posts) -

There are bits like the voice that are a bit silly but generally they have - the first 2 at least - been pretty damn good films. All movies like this are silly is you over analyse them.

#25 Edited by DoctorWelch (2765 posts) -

I don't want to offend you, but the way you say "BATMAAN!" a bunch, and then call it "adorable" makes you sound like a 10 year old girl interested in barbie dolls and Justin Bieber rather than someone who understands fiction in any detailed way.

The ridiculousness of Batman is one of the strengths of Batman. No one takes him seriously until he fucks your shit up. You see it all the time int the movies, games, and comics for most super heroes. There are always thugs or everyday people saying things like, "Did you hear? There's some crazy person dressing up as a (insert super hero costume here) while stopping criminals." The interesting dichotomy of many comic-book super heroes is their ridiculous choice look out of place while being called some insane, laughably stupid name while then proceeding to be complete bad asses.

There is a HUGE difference between Batman and Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. Where Abraham Lincoln is over the top for the sake of being over the top, Batman has a purposeful play on the seeming insanity of his costume and name. In the same way, the Joker uses that same principal of seeming insane (in fact, he actually probably is insane) to his advantage by being unpredictable and all the more dangerous than any "normal" "sane" villain would be.

Even with all this, there are some parts of the whole super hero thing that are sort of odd and laughable, but that's why we suspend our disbelief when watching fiction of all kinds.

#26 Posted by Grimhild (722 posts) -

@Ares42 said:

After having gone on somewhat of a superhero movie spree I've come to one conclusion. The hero is inconsequential to the movie. For a superhero movie to be good there needs to be a good villian. All of the heroes are kinda silly and one trick ponies, it's the villians however that can be interesting.

Totally agree, and I think they demonstrated that brilliantly with the Joker, who even touches on the subject I'm talking about, with how crazy Batman actually look running around dressed up as he is. A hero is only as good as the villain.

#27 Edited by PenguinDust (12642 posts) -

Of course, it's silly. It's guys and gals in costumes beating up other guys and gals in costumes. That doesn't mean it can't be fun, though. I'm still pretty much a kid at heart so I like these ridiculous fantasies. Be it Batman, Luke Skywalker or Godzilla, it's all pretty much the same. Good escapist entertainment.

#28 Posted by Snipper138 (351 posts) -

Batman Beyond is my favorite incarnation of Batman. So no I suppose you're not alone?

#29 Posted by AlexW00d (6451 posts) -

I don't like the new shitty Batman films. Not campy enough. Not enough nipple suits.

Online
#30 Posted by Zella (837 posts) -

@Vodun said:

@Grimhild: Yep, was just pointing out that the dark n' gritty version isn't new.

Yeah neither is the gravel voice, I'm reading Knightfall in preparation for the new movie and it's mentioned he uses a rough coarse voice when talking to Gordon.

#31 Posted by flindip (534 posts) -

I think the problem is that the tone of newer films is not really conducive to any superhero type of character. I think the Burton films initially had the right tone with Batman, kinda of an exaggerated reality.

But doing "realistic" portrayals of superhero is kinda silly. I think what it boils down to is that you have a ton of thirty or 40 somethings who can't come to terms with liking something that is essentially for children. So they try to make it "gritty", "adult", or whatever.

This is a problem that goes beyond Batman, and is an issue with comics in general today.

#32 Posted by Animasta (14731 posts) -

@Snipper138 said:

Batman Beyond is my favorite incarnation of Batman. So no I suppose you're not alone?

that was the cartoon one with the mcginnis guy, right? i always liked it too.

#33 Posted by Grimhild (722 posts) -

@flindip said:

I think the problem is that the tone of newer films is not really conducive to any superhero type of character. I think the Burton films initially had the right tone with Batman, kinda of an exaggerated reality.

But doing "realistic" portrayals of superhero is kinda silly. I think what it boils down to is that you have a ton of thirty or 40 somethings who can't come to terms with liking something that is essentially for children. So they try to make it "gritty", "adult", or whatever.

This is a problem that goes beyond Batman, and is an issue with comics in general today.

Yes. Thank you for putting it more succinctly. I love the Burton film, just because of how stylized it is. And Jack.

#34 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7100 posts) -

Batman has been a gritty and dark character for a while now. The Dark Knight Returns has some super dark sequences.

#35 Posted by Arbie (1437 posts) -

I think a bunch of fiction stuff can be seen as silly if interpreted as non-ficton. Like when that guy made the news because he was actually going out at night trying to stop crime dressed as a superhero! But in fiction, almost anything rolls. So as long as it's believable within its world I don't tend to laugh much at the bits I'm not supposed to, well unless there is something in the background like that guy hanging by his ankle for an hour or so in Titanic. That being said I kind of don't get along with Superman very well, so I guess you need to be able to click with the character as well. You said you like the joker, who is non-serious, but find Batman silly because of the whole seriousness yet dressed as a bat thing. Do you get along with wai so seriuz people in real life? Or do they kind of make you giggle a bit too? The voice thing I think most people get a kick out of imitating at least because it's something people can come together on common ground with. But I guess it's also something most people recognize, like: "Bond, James Bond". Oh shucks, I know what I'm getting at here but I'm hungry. Reading back what I've written, what am I doing? It looks like I'm giving you a trip to a psychologist's office. Next time I'll remember my manners and offer you a chair first! Haha.

#36 Posted by Cube (4366 posts) -

Didn't like Batman Begins, but loved The Dark Knight. It's cool, and it's fun to watch.

#37 Posted by Grimhild (722 posts) -

@Erzs said:

You said you like the joker, who is non-serious, but find Batman silly because of the whole seriousness yet dressed as a bat thing. Do you get along with wai so seriuz people in real life? Or do they kind of make you giggle a bit too?

As in do I get along with crazy people in real life? Absolutely, we're all mad here.

But I guess the Joker is easier to take a face value since absurdity is an inherent part of his character. Whereas Batman has this cold, stoic, professional demeanor that implies that "God damn it... I mean business. Take me seriously." To which my eyes slowly climb up to the bat ears.

I was telling one of my friends that I wouldn't hit this wall with the character if he still had all his trappings of sweet-ass techno vigilantism and street justice, but didn't have a cape, bat ears and the whole bat theme in general, as far as the "serious" settings are concerned.

#38 Posted by kgb0515 (405 posts) -

I think the only thing that really bothers me about the films is that Bale's Batman fails to emphasize the whole "detective" element of the caped crusader. Sure, he uses gadgets, and he relies on his allies to improve his odds against his foes, but he doesn't seem overly intellegent. I don't follow the comics, but Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, and the various animated series really focused on how Bruce Wayne outsmarted foes who had superior strength or numbers. He is the world's greatest detective after all.

#39 Posted by McGhee (6075 posts) -

All superhero stories are silly.

#40 Posted by Giefcookie (611 posts) -

I've never had bacon.

#41 Posted by bybeach (5009 posts) -

I do not know much about the movies. I traditionally (Adam West) do not take Batman seriously in the slightest. But the 2 Arkham videogames convinced me to put it aside, and I am very much behind their version of the Batman personnae and his extremly dark gothic world.

#42 Posted by kindone (2843 posts) -

I think the Dark knight versions of Batman are some of the deepest and "mature" version of film we have had in a long while. It really gets under your skin while taking a step back as to not offend you. Too often directors take their ideas in one direction and never look back. I think the Dark Knight is sitting right there in the middle, perfectly balanced.

Also, this is all relevant to "Super Hero" movies, not the industry in general.

#43 Posted by Fattony12000 (7587 posts) -
#44 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3999 posts) -

@Vodun said:

@Grimhild: Yeah, this "new" phenomenon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Knight_Returns

This. There are many interpretations of Batman that vary wildly. There is room for all of them.

Nolan's is the most "realistic" I've seen and it's certainly my favorite Batman on film. I still enjoy the more lighthearted Batman interpretations though. I hope the next reboot of Batman goes that route a bit actually.

#45 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7100 posts) -

@Fattony12000 said:

That's such a lighthearted romp of a book. If only Nolan wasn't so self serious and followed that a bit. Right? No?

#46 Edited by flindip (534 posts) -

I personally feel the best interpretation of Batman is one that has borderline supernatural elements to it. Much of the stories in the late 70's had magical elements to them with characters like Rah Al Ghul.

I remember a GREAT Batman story was one where he fought Dracula. That is the right tone for Batman imo.

But trying to turn him into a realistic character is off putting to me. Btw, realistic or gritty are two different things. The Dark Knight returns was not realistic at all nor did it try to be. However, it did have adult or gritty subject matter.

#47 Posted by Arker101 (1472 posts) -

I don't find anything whimsical in the new gritty batman movies. I did find The Hunger Games to be incredibly shallow and pandering which garnered a lot of hate from my friends. I'm all good with having differing opinions, but if you actually laughed at the movie while watching it with your friends, who took it seriously, that'd be a jerk move.

@DoctorWelch said:

I don't want to offend you, but the way you say "BATMAAN!" a bunch, and then call it "adorable" makes you sound like a 10 year old girl interested in barbie dolls and Justin Bieber rather than someone who understands fiction in any detailed way.

The ridiculousness of Batman is one of the strengths of Batman. No one takes him seriously until he fucks your shit up. You see it all the time int the movies, games, and comics for most super heroes. There are always thugs or everyday people saying things like, "Did you hear? There's some crazy person dressing up as a (insert super hero costume here) while stopping criminals." The interesting dichotomy of many comic-book super heroes is their ridiculous choice look out of place while being called some insane, laughably stupid name while then proceeding to be complete bad asses.

There is a HUGE difference between Batman and Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. Where Abraham Lincoln is over the top for the sake of being over the top, Batman has a purposeful play on the seeming insanity of his costume and name. In the same way, the Joker uses that same principal of seeming insane (in fact, he actually probably is insane) to his advantage by being unpredictable and all the more dangerous than any "normal" "sane" villain would be.

Even with all this, there are some parts of the whole super hero thing that are sort of odd and laughable, but that's why we suspend our disbelief when watching fiction of all kinds.

This is accurate.

#48 Posted by Toxeia (725 posts) -

Sorry, this is all that's going through my head right now.

#49 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (1191 posts) -
@Grimhild: Batman being dark isn't new in the least 
#50 Posted by DukesT3 (1945 posts) -

It is a superhero stuff and they are just pretty silly, I mean.. tights.. why?