#1 Posted by Turambar (6888 posts) -

What the fuck. What the fucking fuck. (And no, lets not turn this into a gun control argument thread. For one thing, we barely know any details about it.)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/24/webster-new-york-firefighter-shot/1788917/

Fires allowed to spread while gunman remains at large

A gunman shot and killed at least two firefighters responding to a house fire at a Rochester suburb early Monday.

Two other firefighters were in guarded condition at Strong Memorial Hospital with gunshot wounds, according to a hospital spokeswoman, The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported.

Fire Marshal Rob Boutillier said the blaze was allowed to spread to two other houses until the area is secured.

Webster police Chief Gerald Pickering said "one or more shooters" fired at the firefighters when they arrived at the scene near the shore of Lake Ontario. The attacker was still at large at mid-morning.

WHEC-TV reported that by midmorning firefighters were attacking the blaze, which had spread to three homes and a vehicle.

The gunman open fire on the first firefighters to respond to the call around 5:45 a.m. ET, striking one in the backside.

A SWAT team escorted some residents to a bus that took them from the neighborhood.

Boutillier advised those residents who chose to remain in their homes to stay away from windows and doors.

"I'm not aware of anything like this happening in Webster, obviously not a firefighter being fired upon," Boutillier said.

Webster resident Michael Damico was among those neighbors who were evacuated.

"The whole strip's been evacuated," Damico said. "They're evacuating all of the houses and going through them."

Damico's son woke him up around 8 a.m. to tell him about the fire that was burning down the street.

"We looked out the window and we saw the SWAT team and everyone around," he said.

"Some people on this bus already watched their houses burn," Damico said. "They're not happy."

Webster, with a population of 5,000, is located northeast of Rochester and is bordered on the north by Lake Ontario.

WHEC-TV reported that one of the injured firefighters was able to drive his vehicle away from the scene.

#2 Posted by Demoskinos (15131 posts) -

Good lord. This is awful.

#3 Posted by wolf_blitzer85 (5293 posts) -

Humans are the worst.

#4 Posted by Aegon (5821 posts) -

On the surface it would seem like someone started a fire and didn't want it to go out.

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#5 Posted by natetodamax (19219 posts) -

Ban fire.

#6 Posted by Ravenlight (8011 posts) -

Messed up. I wonder if there are more shootings recently or if the media is just more zealous about reporting on them.

#7 Posted by BBAlpert (1581 posts) -

For crying out loud, what is wrong with people?!

#8 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

I have to imagine in normal countries getting shot at is the least of any fire-fighters worries.

#9 Posted by TobbRobb (4840 posts) -

Sounds like someone really didn't want that fire to be put out. Mysterious.

#10 Posted by Andorski (5365 posts) -

My guess: The gunman killed someone and created a fire to destroy all the evidence. Firefighters show up and gunman kills them for fear of either seeing him or for putting out the fire before all the evidence is destroyed.

#11 Posted by elessarLOTR (58 posts) -

... What the hell is wrong with people.

#12 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4878 posts) -

@Andorski said:

My guess: The gunman killed someone and created a fire to destroy all the evidence. Firefighters show up and gunman kills them for fear of either seeing him or for putting out the fire before all the evidence is destroyed.

A little bit conspiracy theorist, but it does make sense given what we know about the situation so far.

Also, who the fuck shoots at firemen? I mean really. That's just counterproductive.

#13 Posted by Phatmac (5726 posts) -

Jesus.. Poor family that probably won't have a father for Christmas...

#14 Posted by OmegaPirate (5522 posts) -

We can be fucking scum at times

#15 Posted by zyn (2591 posts) -

What. The. Fuck?!

#16 Posted by Andorski (5365 posts) -

Don't worry guys. The NRA has come out with a statement saying that the solution is to have men with firearms at all fires.

#17 Posted by Andorski (5365 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Andorski said:

My guess: The gunman killed someone and created a fire to destroy all the evidence. Firefighters show up and gunman kills them for fear of either seeing him or for putting out the fire before all the evidence is destroyed.

A little bit conspiracy theorist, but it does make sense given what we know about the situation so far.

Also, who the fuck shoots at firemen? I mean really. That's just counterproductive.

Unless you want the fire to keep going.

Puts on tin foil hat.

#18 Posted by golguin (4040 posts) -

@Andorski said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Andorski said:

My guess: The gunman killed someone and created a fire to destroy all the evidence. Firefighters show up and gunman kills them for fear of either seeing him or for putting out the fire before all the evidence is destroyed.

A little bit conspiracy theorist, but it does make sense given what we know about the situation so far.

Also, who the fuck shoots at firemen? I mean really. That's just counterproductive.

Unless you want the fire to keep going.

Puts on tin foil hat.

I feel like I've heard that scenario carried out successfully, but I don't know if it was from the news or a tv show. Fire is a great way to destroy the evidence of a murder.

#19 Posted by MarkWahlberg (4606 posts) -

Some men just want to watch etc.

Also, fuck that guy.

#20 Posted by JasonR86 (9723 posts) -

I don't want to sound like I'm trivializing these shootings but the acts and people's reactions to the acts reminds me of No Country for Old Men.

#21 Posted by RollingZeppelin (2104 posts) -

How to one-up shooting children, shoot people who's only goal is to put their lives in danger to help others. I wonder what the next media-sponsored atrocity will involve? Shooting up a maternity ward?

#22 Posted by CornBREDX (5973 posts) -

It would seem someone didn't want the fire to go out.  
Should just shoot to injure in that case- they cant fight the fire with a gun shot wound.  
Sorry, I know that is a bit tasteless but I'm just saying how doubly weird this is. 
 
Is that Rochester, NY? I get calls from that area in my job. There is a lot of assholes in Rochester, NY. 
 
Also theres an update here: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20121224/NEWS01/312240026/2-firefighters-dead-2-injured-in-Webster-shooter-found-dead

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#23 Posted by Ghostiet (5307 posts) -

In Poland, a group of hooligans deliberately set fire to a dumpster, called the firemen and then beat them all up.

Sad news. No matter the motif, pointless deaths.

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#24 Posted by Imsorrymsjackson (850 posts) -

A job well done American Government and the NRA, a job well done.

#25 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5818 posts) -

and on the day before Christmas, no less :(

this is a really depressing holiday season

#26 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7099 posts) -

But no guys, it's cool we don't need more gun control. Right? We just need more guns...right? Assault rifles should be legal...right?

#27 Posted by TheHT (11768 posts) -

@golguin said:

Fire is a great way to destroy the evidence of a murder.

I'll just be leaving now.

And this is totally fucked up.

@Ghostiet said:

In Poland, a group of hooligans deliberately set fire to a dumpster, called the firemen and then beat them all up.

Sad news. No matter the motif, pointless deaths.

Geez. Don't firemen have axes? That seems like a good time to get Resident Evil.

#28 Posted by Jimbo (9983 posts) -

I'm pretty sure I had nothing to do with it.

#29 Posted by BD_Mr_Bubbles (1702 posts) -

As if I needed to lose any more faith in humanity.

#30 Posted by Brodehouse (10127 posts) -
@Andorski
My guess: The gunman killed someone and created a fire to destroy all the evidence. Firefighters show up and gunman kills them for fear of either seeing him or for putting out the fire before all the evidence is destroyed.
I see it more likely someone wanted to shoot some people, preferably public employees, and created a situation to which they would've responded and lay in ambush.
#31 Posted by murisan (1119 posts) -

@Andorski said:

Don't worry guys. The NRA has come out with a statement saying that the solution is to have men with firearms at all fires.

I laughed real hard at this, but man... I can see them saying "firemen should carry arms."

#32 Posted by Godlyawesomeguy (6402 posts) -

I have a sneaking suspicion that the media is just ALL OVER any and all gun-related homicides after the story of the year (Sandy) was such a big hit. Tragic news in all aspects of this event.

#33 Posted by LaszloKovacs (1210 posts) -

... Boy, that makes me proud to live in Rochester.

Good going, Webster guy. Fucking scumbag.

Merry Christmas, folks!

#34 Posted by NeVeRMoRe666 (268 posts) -

@Ravenlight: Either way, this can't be acceptable.

#35 Posted by Draxyle (1894 posts) -

@Godlyawesomeguy said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that the media is just ALL OVER any and all gun-related homicides after the story of the year (Sandy) was such a big hit. Tragic news in all aspects of this event.

I wouldn't doubt that for a moment, though they have been so commonplace in this country that there's not even enough 24 hour news time to cover them all in the first place, but now it's the big "thing" so they have shifted focus in accordance.

Which is half of the problem; after every mass shooting comes waves of copy/cats due to the media inundation of the subject in some sort of sick spiral.

#36 Posted by DonutFever (3536 posts) -

Perhaps it's like American History X, and the building burning down was a drug den.

#37 Posted by mlarrabee (3057 posts) -

Sickening people.

@Imsorrymsjackson said:

A job well done American Government and the NRA, a job well done.

Your leaps of logic are staggering. If I were to stab someone with my kitchen knife it would be my fault entirely, not the government's, the manufacturer's, or the store's. Blaming the NRA is as silly as the NRA blaming video games. The NRA promotes gun ownership. Gun ownership is only dangerous in the hands of the evil or disturbed. Video games are filled with virtual violence. Video game violence is only dangerous when it ignites ambitions in the evil or disturbed.

#38 Edited by DonutFever (3536 posts) -
@mlarrabee said:

Sickening people.

@Imsorrymsjackson said:

A job well done American Government and the NRA, a job well done.

Your leaps of logic are staggering. If I were to stab someone with my kitchen knife it would be my fault entirely, not the government's, the manufacturer's, or the store's. Blaming the NRA is as silly as the NRA blaming video games. The NRA promotes gun ownership. Gun ownership is only dangerous in the hands of the evil or disturbed. Video games are filled with virtual violence. Video game violence is only dangerous when it ignites ambitions in the evil or disturbed.

I mostly agree with you, however, NRA promotes the accessibility of guns, also. Which means they fight to make them accessible to the evil or disturbed. 
#39 Posted by Kidavenger (3626 posts) -

They didn't catch the shooter? How is that possible?

#40 Posted by Godlyawesomeguy (6402 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

I don't want to sound like I'm trivializing these shootings but the acts and people's reactions to the acts reminds me of No Country for Old Men.

How so?

@OmegaPirate said:

We can be fucking scum at times

To be fair, statistically, it's a trivial percent of the population that would ever do something like this. I may be stating the obvious, but it's good to keep perspective on tragedies such as this.

#41 Posted by JasonR86 (9723 posts) -

@Godlyawesomeguy:

It's specifically Tommy Lee Jones' character and how he feels overwhelmed by what the US has become. How he wishes for the old days because back then at least things made sense. Violence wasn't pointless if it even occurred at all. And then he talks to an old deputy who gives him some perspective telling him that the world has always been fucked and tragedy and pointlessness aren't new concepts.

#42 Posted by Turambar (6888 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

They didn't catch the shooter? How is that possible?

An updated article someone posted a few posts above you mentioned the shooter was found dead, I think.

#43 Posted by jakob187 (21755 posts) -

They are sure it was a shooter and not just ammunition going off from the location of the fire?

If it's a shooter, then fuuuuuuuuuck.

If it's the example I laid out, that's a hazard of the job itself.

#44 Posted by Turambar (6888 posts) -

@jakob187 said:

They are sure it was a shooter and not just ammunition going off from the location of the fire?

If it's a shooter, then fuuuuuuuuuck.

If it's the example I laid out, that's a hazard of the job itself.

They stated that the firefighters were shot in the back as they approached the house. It wouldn't be possible for it to be live ammunition being heated up.

#45 Edited by John1912 (1961 posts) -

This says shooter is dead. Witnesses saw him shooting.

Two firefighters — Lt. Mike Chiapperini and Tomasz Kacowka — died when William Spengler, 62, opened fire with what eyewitnesses described as either an assault rifle or a hunting rifle when their trucks approached the scene of the blaze.

Spengler, who found dead due to a self-inflicted gunshot wound, had served 17 years behind bars for killing his grandmother with a hammer.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/listen-webster-firefighter-emergency-call-article-1.1227006#ixzz2G2HCNdNq

#46 Posted by Sticky_Pennies (2019 posts) -

What the fuck is wrong with people?

#47 Posted by Apparatus_Unearth (3243 posts) -

Outlaw fire.