It's true that most animals in nature only live to breed and survive. Humans and a few other species actually have the intelligence to enjoy a lot of different things - sports, drama, tv, Internet, jokes... the list could go on forever. For most animals and for most life on this planet, hunting and surviving is an enjoyment in its own right.
Have you ever thought how much humans waste just because our brain is so advanced that it needs constant stimulation? A bear can sleep for the whole winter, just doing nothing, without feeling mentally ill. A human needs to do something all the time in order for the brain to stay fit. Look at elderly people who don't have anything to do - they die in Alzeimers because their brains become understimulated.
So while our brain is super advanced, does it mean we're super smart? I think not. We see intelligence as creating the car or the light bulb, to make our lives easier and more comfortable. But while we do that, we wrestle with lots of diseases that have to do with obesity because our modern lifestyle is so comfortable. If we want food we don't need to risk our lives in a hunt, we just go to the nearest shop.
Humans are wasting the resources of the earth. I mean, EXTREME wasting. But we have to do that, because our brain would not feel good if we didn't stimulated it a lot. Humans also have a very weird concept that weak and sick people should live with artificial help. In nature, weak animals becomes pray of predators, or if parents discovers that there's something wrong with their baby, they usually kill it to keep the genes strong.
Because weak people with serious diseases live on and create offspring, the human race has a lot of weaknesses that are inherit in our genes. Bad vision means we need glasses. Bad hearts mean we need to take medicine every day. And so on. This is not a problem in nature where weak or sick offspring is killed off to make room for the strong.
Of course, this is because our unique emotional feelings that separates us from most other animals. But I'm starting to think that emotions are actually a weakness. That our "supreme" intelligence is just an evolutional malfunction that causes wars, destruction and waste.
You often hear that mankind has conqured the earth. What? 70% of the earth are oceans, and no humans live in oceans.
I think people should waste and consume less. Compare it to the evolution of video games:
Games in the 80s were just as fun as games are today. I mean back then, they were just as fun. But then we heightened the standard. Not content with all the great fun, we wanted more and more and more and more... it's in our flawed nature.
Are humans intelligent or just dumb?
@oskar_det said:What is intelligence to you? Is it to invent the car or to make sure to create strong offspring?@No0b0rAmA said:Bad vision is bad intelligence?None of this is relevant to human intelligence.I think it is, because it depends on how you define intelligence. Do you look at Wikipedia or do you philosophy to make your own definition?
That sounds a bit risky. I vote that we just nuke the oceans again.@TheSeductiveMoose said:
So we should nuke the oceans?Nah we already did that, we should nuke space!
How about humans are intelligent, because we are capable of higher cognition. However, because we are capable of higher cognition, the concept of waste is a very real possibility- I say that meaning that in the mind of an animal 'waste' (ie over hunting, eating, fishing, etc) is a non-concept. They simply cannot consider this. So because humans are capable of higher reason, we are capable of conceptualizing using more than we need. And we follow through on this concept. And we reap the consequences of a more complex existence. That doesn't make us just dumb, it makes us capable of creating a more complex reality than we can handle ourselves. Animals can't do this. They cannot conceptualize a reality that is more complex than what exists for them, making them less intelligent than humans but also making them 'seem' more intelligent because they can handle the reality they act in.
Someone who would have died in a natural setting who would now survive Is an extreme display of conquering our environment -- something every other species strives to do. A testament to human adaptability and intelligence.
You're trying so hard to think outside of the box that you've ended up outside of reality.
@theguy said:
@TheSeductiveMoose said:@Yanngc33 said:We could nuke them both? Then everyone's happy.That sounds a bit risky. I vote that we just nuke the oceans again.@TheSeductiveMoose said:
So we should nuke the oceans?Nah we already did that, we should nuke space!
How is nuking space not cooler than nuking the ocean????
Goddamnit, man! We're too late!@theguy said:
@TheSeductiveMoose said:@Yanngc33 said:We could nuke them both? Then everyone's happy.That sounds a bit risky. I vote that we just nuke the oceans again.@TheSeductiveMoose said:
So we should nuke the oceans?Nah we already did that, we should nuke space!
How is nuking space not cooler than nuking the ocean????
@No0b0rAmA said:Strong Offspring are not worth killing babies. I don't think it's "dumb" that I'd rather my grandchildren occasionally have to take medication than not have them, or my children at all.@oskar_det said:What is intelligence to you? Is it to invent the car or to make sure to create strong offspring?@No0b0rAmA said:Bad vision is bad intelligence?None of this is relevant to human intelligence.I think it is, because it depends on how you define intelligence. Do you look at Wikipedia or do you philosophy to make your own definition?
@oskar_det said:
"our brain would not feel good"That, on the other hand, is really fucking dumb.
We're the most intelligent species in universe, as far as we know. Just think about what you're doing right now. You're having conversation with people thousands of miles away from each other on a device made of gold, silicon, aluminum and copper. All this is housed in a bi-product of 230 million year-old dinosaur remains. All of this information is traveling at or near the speed of light to it's destination, a hard drive in San Francisco. Here are our stupid little conversation will live on forever in the form of a dipole on a magnetic surface.
We're not stupid. Everyone has the capacity to be as smart as they want to, but some people chose to do nothing and just speculate why they're not smarter.
Also, we have conquered the oceans. We can hunt anything to near extinction and sometimes get too close.
@Yanngc33 said:Oh shit! Call up the Pentagon- THE RUSSIANS HAVE NUKE-CAPABLE WHALES NOW!!!Goddamnit, man! We're too late!@theguy said:
@TheSeductiveMoose said:@Yanngc33 said:We could nuke them both? Then everyone's happy.That sounds a bit risky. I vote that we just nuke the oceans again.@TheSeductiveMoose said:
So we should nuke the oceans?Nah we already did that, we should nuke space!
How is nuking space not cooler than nuking the ocean????
@No0b0rAmA said:Inventing the god damn car, what's wrong with you?!@oskar_det said:What is intelligence to you? Is it to invent the car or to make sure to create strong offspring?@No0b0rAmA said:Bad vision is bad intelligence?None of this is relevant to human intelligence.I think it is, because it depends on how you define intelligence. Do you look at Wikipedia or do you philosophy to make your own definition?
Survival fitness is not intelligence. Cockroaches are a strong species, but they aren't a smart species. They don't even have a proper brain.
Yes, I think most humans are pretty stupid, but I dont really agree with the things you are saying in the post.
@ryanrulez said:
So, you'd say Stephen Hawking isn't intelligent?
Yes. Almost all of Stephen Hawking's "work" is theoretical bull shit that really means nothing. String theory, for instance, is the most extreme example of "smart" people being extremely stupid and disregarding logic for no other reason than wanting science to explain all things. Logic rules life, logic rules science, logic is the basis or all reality and there is no escaping it but for some reason pathetic little self righteous humans like that dude try to act like they know everything when in fact, all of us know very little. Over the entire history of humans, things we have believed and thought to be true have been proven wrong over and over and over again, not using science, but using logic, because logic is what dictates anything to be true or false. But for some reason at every moment in human history there are people that deem themselves, or have been deemed, geniuses that are wrong about tons and tons of things in life but apparently NOW we know everything right. We have never even been to another planet but we know everything about black holes. There are so many theories that people seem to hold as truth, and people gravitate to those that come up with the theories when in fact, all they did was think up a bunch of shit that may or may not have some basis in reality and can not be proven correct or wrong which is why it stays a theory. I am not trying to say I know everything because I dont and I may not be the most intelligent person in the world in one way or another. But when I sit back and look at all the idiocy that goes on when people obsess themselves with science and then defy logic, or when humans are arrogant enough to actually think that what they know must be true because we are the mighty human race, or when people try to think so "deeply" (like the guy who created this topic) that logic and reasoning are all thrown out the window for some "deeper understanding" that in the end actually means nothing and has no value in dwelling upon, it sickens me and it makes me embarrassed to be considered a similar life form as these arrogant, self righteous, and childish people.
Now, commence the flame war from all those who think they know the truth and want to "prove" everything I just said crazy and wrong, as well as all the snarky, short, witty, useless comments from those trying to be "funny" on an internet forum.
u mad?Yes, I think most humans are pretty stupid, but I dont really agree with the things you are saying in the post.
@ryanrulez said:
So, you'd say Stephen Hawking isn't intelligent?
Yes. Almost all of Stephen Hawking's "work" is theoretical bull shit that really means nothing. String theory, for instance, is the most extreme example of "smart" people being extremely stupid and disregarding logic for no other reason than wanting science to explain all things. Logic rules life, logic rules science, logic is the basis or all reality and there is no escaping it but for some reason pathetic little self righteous humans like that dude try to act like they know everything when in fact, all of us know very little. Over the entire history of humans, things we have believed and thought to be true have been proven wrong over and over and over again, not using science, but using logic, because logic is what dictates anything to be true or false. But for some reason at every moment in human history there are people that deem themselves, or have been deemed, geniuses that are wrong about tons and tons of things in life but apparently NOW we know everything right. We have never even been to another planet but we know everything about black holes. There are so many theories that people seem to hold as truth, and people gravitate to those that come up with the theories when in fact, all they did was think up a bunch of shit that may or may not have some basis in reality and can not be proven correct or wrong which is why it stays a theory. I am not trying to say I know everything because I dont and I may not be the most intelligent person in the world in one way or another. But when I sit back and look at all the idiocy that goes on when people obsess themselves with science and then defy logic, or when humans are arrogant enough to actually think that what they know must be true because we are the mighty human race, or when people try to think so "deeply" (like the guy who created this topic) that logic and reasoning are all thrown out the window for some "deeper understanding" that in the end actually means nothing and has no value in dwelling upon, it sickens me and it makes me embarrassed to be considered a similar life form as these arrogant, self righteous, and childish people.
Now, commence the flame war from all those who think they know the truth and want to "prove" everything I just said crazy and wrong, as well as all the snarky, short, witty, useless comments from those trying to be "funny" on an internet forum.
@Meowshi: Pissed or crazy? Cause if I'm crazy I'd like you to make an attempt at explaining why. If you're asking if I'm pissed than yes, humans infuriate me with their idiocy. If you think im wrong, go on and "prove" me wrong.
You say "humans" like you're not one of us. Yes a lot of science is based on theories and sometimes they're wrong but does that mean we should stop trying? Sometimes we're right and I don't think anyone's under the illusion that we know everything.. Also the word "theory" means more than "something some guy made up" that's a hypothesis. Google the definition of a theory.Yes, I think most humans are pretty stupid, but I dont really agree with the things you are saying in the post.
@ryanrulez said:
So, you'd say Stephen Hawking isn't intelligent?
Yes. Almost all of Stephen Hawking's "work" is theoretical bull shit that really means nothing. String theory, for instance, is the most extreme example of "smart" people being extremely stupid and disregarding logic for no other reason than wanting science to explain all things. Logic rules life, logic rules science, logic is the basis or all reality and there is no escaping it but for some reason pathetic little self righteous humans like that dude try to act like they know everything when in fact, all of us know very little. Over the entire history of humans, things we have believed and thought to be true have been proven wrong over and over and over again, not using science, but using logic, because logic is what dictates anything to be true or false. But for some reason at every moment in human history there are people that deem themselves, or have been deemed, geniuses that are wrong about tons and tons of things in life but apparently NOW we know everything right. We have never even been to another planet but we know everything about black holes. There are so many theories that people seem to hold as truth, and people gravitate to those that come up with the theories when in fact, all they did was think up a bunch of shit that may or may not have some basis in reality and can not be proven correct or wrong which is why it stays a theory. I am not trying to say I know everything because I dont and I may not be the most intelligent person in the world in one way or another. But when I sit back and look at all the idiocy that goes on when people obsess themselves with science and then defy logic, or when humans are arrogant enough to actually think that what they know must be true because we are the mighty human race, or when people try to think so "deeply" (like the guy who created this topic) that logic and reasoning are all thrown out the window for some "deeper understanding" that in the end actually means nothing and has no value in dwelling upon, it sickens me and it makes me embarrassed to be considered a similar life form as these arrogant, self righteous, and childish people.
Now, commence the flame war from all those who think they know the truth and want to "prove" everything I just said crazy and wrong, as well as all the snarky, short, witty, useless comments from those trying to be "funny" on an internet forum.
You know nothing of biology, sociology, psychology, economics, or basic fucking logic and I would appreciate it if you stopped vomiting pseudo-intellectual bull shit all over my screen.
If we were to purge the population of unnecessary individuals you are the first one I would push into the furnace.
Anyway, the OP sounds to me like he is trying to debate the merits of selective breeding more then anything else. I think it should be incentived as a way to make humanity as a whole better, but there are so many negative uses of it in history that even mentioning it makes people go crazy.
@oskar_det said:
do you philosophy to make your own definition?
Philosophize? Think? Utilize your brain? Stretch some intellectual muscles?
Anyway, yes we are very intelligent. We are just shitty at global scale team dynamics.
This is a question of perspective.
Humans have created remarkable devices, have improved 'the human condition' and are making new scientific leaps in a very short amount of time.
Humans are also vicious creatures who can destroy at a much faster rate that they can build. Humans also have to spend their lives working shit jobs just to survive.
Animals eat, fuck a whole bunch and sleep.
I think the animals are more intelligent than humans. :)
Humans are intelligent, we just do dumb things. It doesn't really matter though. You may think that 'most life' exists to reproduce but you're wrong. It's all life. You may think there is a higher meaning to life, and that we're wasting our brains but we're not. Life has one golden rule, reproduce. That's it. If you've had a child and got it to the age where it can look after itself then well done, you served your only purpose in life. You can die now. You might have a great theory on how the universe came about, but life doesn't care. Thinking about having another baby? Great, life wants you to do that. Don't worry if you're too old and the baby is unhealthy, life didn't need that set of DNA to continue, it was too weak. Anyone on this planet who dies without reproducing has wasted their genes, as far as life is concerned. If you wrote a great novel then guess what, life doesn't care - you still failed.
@theguy said:
@DoctorWelch said:You say "humans" like you're not one of us. Yes a lot of science is based on theories and sometimes they're wrong but does that mean we should stop trying? Sometimes we're right and I don't think anyone's under the illusion that we know everything.. Also the word "theory" means more than "something some guy made up" that's a hypothesis. Google the definition of a theory.Yes, I think most humans are pretty stupid, but I dont really agree with the things you are saying in the post.
@ryanrulez said:
So, you'd say Stephen Hawking isn't intelligent?
Yes. Almost all of Stephen Hawking's "work" is theoretical bull shit that really means nothing. String theory, for instance, is the most extreme example of "smart" people being extremely stupid and disregarding logic for no other reason than wanting science to explain all things. Logic rules life, logic rules science, logic is the basis or all reality and there is no escaping it but for some reason pathetic little self righteous humans like that dude try to act like they know everything when in fact, all of us know very little. Over the entire history of humans, things we have believed and thought to be true have been proven wrong over and over and over again, not using science, but using logic, because logic is what dictates anything to be true or false. But for some reason at every moment in human history there are people that deem themselves, or have been deemed, geniuses that are wrong about tons and tons of things in life but apparently NOW we know everything right. We have never even been to another planet but we know everything about black holes. There are so many theories that people seem to hold as truth, and people gravitate to those that come up with the theories when in fact, all they did was think up a bunch of shit that may or may not have some basis in reality and can not be proven correct or wrong which is why it stays a theory. I am not trying to say I know everything because I dont and I may not be the most intelligent person in the world in one way or another. But when I sit back and look at all the idiocy that goes on when people obsess themselves with science and then defy logic, or when humans are arrogant enough to actually think that what they know must be true because we are the mighty human race, or when people try to think so "deeply" (like the guy who created this topic) that logic and reasoning are all thrown out the window for some "deeper understanding" that in the end actually means nothing and has no value in dwelling upon, it sickens me and it makes me embarrassed to be considered a similar life form as these arrogant, self righteous, and childish people.
Now, commence the flame war from all those who think they know the truth and want to "prove" everything I just said crazy and wrong, as well as all the snarky, short, witty, useless comments from those trying to be "funny" on an internet forum.
I just said at the end that I am ashamed to be considered a human so I dont really know what you're pointing out in the first sentence. As for the rest, I know what the difference between a theory and a hypothesis is. If you actually read all I wrote I said a theory is "a bunch of shit that may or may not have some basis in reality and can not be proven correct or wrong" which is 100% true. Yes they may have some reasons to believe that this may be true but it is still only a theory because there is no way of proving it true or false which makes theories completely stupid and pointless. Anyone could come up with a theory that is somewhat based in reality but can not be proven true or false, but has "evidence" to be true. Also string theory basically sets a precedent that I can say anything, call it a theory, and it is just as true as any other theory out there because string theory has no basis in reality and no actual evidence to be true or not, it is just a bunch of ideas thought up by people deemed to be "smart".
Oh and no we should not stop trying, but we should stop acting as if we know more than we do because although you're right and we dont act like we know everything, half the time we act as if what we think we know has to be true because we thought it up.
You should really look into what goes into these theories. Scientific theories are based observations and data collection over years of study. The people who conceptualize these theories are people with years of expertise, and their theories are always reviewed by other scientists in their field. The beauty of all these theories is that they can be proven wrong, and scientists love that because it means they have learned something new about the world around them. Scientists have every right to be sententious because they're the one's most qualified to speak about the world as we know it.Yes, I think most humans are pretty stupid, but I dont really agree with the things you are saying in the post.
@ryanrulez said:
So, you'd say Stephen Hawking isn't intelligent?
Yes. Almost all of Stephen Hawking's "work" is theoretical bull shit that really means nothing. String theory, for instance, is the most extreme example of "smart" people being extremely stupid and disregarding logic for no other reason than wanting science to explain all things. Logic rules life, logic rules science, logic is the basis or all reality and there is no escaping it but for some reason pathetic little self righteous humans like that dude try to act like they know everything when in fact, all of us know very little. Over the entire history of humans, things we have believed and thought to be true have been proven wrong over and over and over again, not using science, but using logic, because logic is what dictates anything to be true or false. But for some reason at every moment in human history there are people that deem themselves, or have been deemed, geniuses that are wrong about tons and tons of things in life but apparently NOW we know everything right. We have never even been to another planet but we know everything about black holes. There are so many theories that people seem to hold as truth, and people gravitate to those that come up with the theories when in fact, all they did was think up a bunch of shit that may or may not have some basis in reality and can not be proven correct or wrong which is why it stays a theory. I am not trying to say I know everything because I dont and I may not be the most intelligent person in the world in one way or another. But when I sit back and look at all the idiocy that goes on when people obsess themselves with science and then defy logic, or when humans are arrogant enough to actually think that what they know must be true because we are the mighty human race, or when people try to think so "deeply" (like the guy who created this topic) that logic and reasoning are all thrown out the window for some "deeper understanding" that in the end actually means nothing and has no value in dwelling upon, it sickens me and it makes me embarrassed to be considered a similar life form as these arrogant, self righteous, and childish people.
Now, commence the flame war from all those who think they know the truth and want to "prove" everything I just said crazy and wrong, as well as all the snarky, short, witty, useless comments from those trying to be "funny" on an internet forum.
You keep speaking about how logic dictates all this, when in fact science gives the tools to base our logic on. Through scientific methods and proofs we obtain our since of what logic is. Experiments and observations helps give credence to what we think is true.
While we'll never know everything, don't discredit people who trying to understand the world we live in. They are the only ones who care enough to try and make the world a bette, more informed place.
We're the most intelligent species in universe, as far as we know. Just think about what you're doing right now. You're having conversation with people thousands of miles away from each other on a device made of gold, silicon, aluminum and copper. All this is housed in a bi-product of 230 million year-old dinosaur remains. All of this information is traveling at or near the speed of light to it's destination, a hard drive in San Francisco. Here are our stupid little conversation will live on forever in the form of a dipole on a magnetic surface. We're not stupid. Everyone has the capacity to be as smart as they want to, but some people chose to do nothing and just speculate why they're not smarter. Also, we have conquered the oceans. We can hunt anything to near extinction and sometimes get too close.This.
@Surkov: I know exactly what goes into theories I'm not stupid, I wouldnt just say these things without knowing about what a theory is. You still are just stating facts about how theories are made that dont contradict anything I'm saying in any way.
Scientists have no right to be self righteous, they only observe and use logic to determine what may or may not be true but then in turn anyone can look at that information and from their own ideas, so just because they did the research doesnt mean they have more right than anyone else to observe it and give an opinion on it.
Also logic is first and foremost in everything. Logic is what makes us humans and what makes us more intelligent than other creatures. Science is simply the product of logic and its how we use logic to further our knowledge and understanding. Scientists are constantly defying logic for no other reason than to make themselves seem smart and try to understand things they have no right to even try to understand because chances are everything they think in these areas is false because we dont have access to get the adequate way to achieve enough accurate information to even assume the most basic of things.
Yeah, that`s why 90% of earths species are either extinct or endangered, but humans continue to thrive.
Don`t worry, as with all nature, eventually our time will come and the weak will die off but the number of survivors will dwindle and in the end we will be gone, making room for the next creatures that will evolve and take over. This is how it works, we have been on earth for what, 0.003% of it`s history? We won't destroy the planet, far from it, we will be long gone before we can actually hurt it.
Japanese, Chinese, Asians in general all top IQ tests on average. Intellectual and scientific progress was hampered for centuries by the church so I say we can, and must take action:
1) Nuke God.
2) Nuke Christians and other people of faith.
3) Nuke the black, the white, but especially the Welsh. Chips and cheese is not a proper dinner.
4) Nuke the science haters. They're clearly chronically illogical.
5) Nuke anyone who likes mucking about, or looks a bit daft.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment