Are Republicans the "Small Government" Party?

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lilburtonboy7489

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#1  Edited By lilburtonboy7489

I don't get it. So many people claim to favor the Republicans because they don't want the government to run their lives. A lot of libertarians lean towards Republican and vote Republican because of this. They call the Democrats a bunch of socialists and say that they will raise taxes.


Really?

I'm in no way defending the Democrats, which are just as bad, but come on. George Bush is responsible for the largest government in our history. No one has ever used the executive power like he has. The Patriot Act was one of the most massive government expansions we have ever had. The spending in Iraq was insane, and all he did was increase our deficit. Sure he cut taxes by a whole 1%, but he increased spending which means it will have to be paid some time anyways. Homeland Security alone enough to label the Republicans as a massive government party.

And yea, I know that Bush isn't president anymore, but even so, the Republicans have supported the stimulus just like the Democrats. They support government roads, government schools, massive regulation, monetary inflation, military expansion, domestic spying, bailouts, and extremely high taxes, just like the Democrats. 

So next time a Republican makes some smartass comment about "big government liberals", don't concede that without pointing out these facts. 
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NathHaw

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#2  Edited By NathHaw

In recent years, I've grown more cynical about politics.  I finally concluded that defending republicans is about as smart as defending democrats...well, political leaders of each, I should clarify.  Nearly all of the major players are corrupt.  I've given up.

Republicans are as much swindlers as the dems...well, maybe not as much, but close enough, so w/e.  I don't really even care that much anymore.

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Fei

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#3  Edited By Fei

No Republicans are not the small government party. Neo-conservatism is their banner now. Neither are. Unfortunately there are very few Libertarian politicians.

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Snipzor

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#4  Edited By Snipzor

I can't wait for that blasted party to split already.

I want my Whigs dammit.

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lilburtonboy7489

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#5  Edited By lilburtonboy7489
Snipzor said:
I can't wait for that blasted party to split already.I want my Whigs dammit.
Why are you waiting? Let's do it.

lilburtonbboy7489/Snipzor 2012
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Gunner

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#6  Edited By Gunner
lilburtonboy7489 said:
Snipzor said: I can't wait for that blasted party to split already.I want my Whigs dammit. Why are you waiting? ... [more]
I support this action.
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KingBroly

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#7  Edited By KingBroly

The politicians in the Republican party (at least the ones you hear from) are not for small Government.  And neither are Democrats.

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daniel_beck_90

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#8  Edited By daniel_beck_90
lilburtonboy7489 said:
I don't get it. So many people claim to favor the Republicans because they don't want the government to run ... [more]

 I agree with your point , After attempting to accuse the Obama administration of wrong tax policies and holding absurd TEA parties among people who actually received tax cuts , Republicans are now trying to bring upon the issue of liberalisms VS socialism  and change the public opinion regarding Democrats and the government .

First I should mention that Socialism is not a bad thing in its nature specially if you are a religious conservative !!!!  , because socialism ‘s main code is equality for every one and as we know that is what Jesus always talked about : equal opportunity for every one .

Nevertheless , GOP union will not get anywhere with its current strategy .



By the way I should mention that Stimulus plan was merely approved by two Republicans, one of which recently has changed his party and became a Democrat .

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thedj93

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#9  Edited By thedj93

I think that no one should be exploited at the expense of others. This is why my views tend to lean towards the socialistic ideal envisioned in utopic landscapes. You may say that it is unrealistic to dream of an economic world where every one is equal, but to you I say, "Why not?"

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Alex_Murphy

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#10  Edited By Alex_Murphy

Fuck the republicans and fuck the Democrats too. Libertarian is the way to go.

But to answer your question about the Republicans being for small government, I guess they sort of are if you compare them to the socialist democrats that have the government taking over banks and car companies and such.

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NathHaw

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#11  Edited By NathHaw
thedj93 said:
I think that no one should be exploited at the expense of others. This is why my views tend to ... [more]
I'd like that too for the most part, and maybe someday that will happen.  Today, that's not likely.   I would love to see that day though.  In the meantime, let's not get carried away with John Lennon songs.  ;)
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Alex_Murphy

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#12  Edited By Alex_Murphy
thedj93 said:
I think that no one should be exploited at the expense of others. This is why my views tend to ... [more]
When they take money from rich people to give it to the welfare queens isn't that exploitation?
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Keyser_Soze

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#13  Edited By Keyser_Soze

LMFAO neo-cons.

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NathHaw

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#14  Edited By NathHaw
Alex_Murphy said:
thedj93 said: I think that no one should be exploited at the expense of others. This is why my views ... [more]
Yeah, but didn't you get his point?  He's has the idealistic view, wrong or right.  BTW, I agree with you and like his sentiment.  Both have merit.  Damn, I'm getting into this again.  I'm leaving.   /stageleft
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SwedishSkinJer

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#15  Edited By SwedishSkinJer

What about social conservatism?  Republicans warn about regulating our lives, and yet they don't care about attempting to enact bans on social issues that they disagree with.  Former Republican Senator Rick Santorum has even said birth control is evil.

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SwedishSkinJer

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#16  Edited By SwedishSkinJer

I also agree about forming a viable third party.  Here's my observation:  Republicans and Democrats both favor expanded government, but they only speak out against expanding government when it concerns issues that contradict their party platform.  They never talk about issues that they want government expansion on without twisting the facts, such as social issues.  Many Republicans even want to regulate online gambling, which is none of the government's business.

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Fei

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#17  Edited By Fei
SwedishSkinJer said:
What about social conservatism?  Republicans warn about regulating our lives, and yet they don't care about attempting to enact bans ... [more]

What about it? It doesnt exist in Neo-conservatives. Only one political affiliation supports true social conservatism and thats Libertarians. "The government has no right to dictate how you live your life or what you do so long as it does not harm or encroach the rights of others." Neither Democrat or Republican support the true American foundations of liberty. Im afraid it is washed away in the tides of time and power.
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SwedishSkinJer

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#18  Edited By SwedishSkinJer

Social conservatism in the sense that they want to control the lives of others, including law-abiding gay citizens that, as you said, don't encroach on the liberties of others.  They like to speak about religious freedom, but some religions are having their freedoms violated when same-sex marriage is not legal, so it's bad logic.  They simply revert to the slippy slope argument, which could apply to MANY things that are legal today.  Both parties also favor the PATRIOT Act and regulating some online activities.

This is why I'm a Libertarian.

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SwedishSkinJer

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#19  Edited By SwedishSkinJer

It also infuriates me greatly when Republicans hide behind THEIR definition of "family values" to pass their restrictive agenda.

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Fei

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#20  Edited By Fei

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I was impling social conservatism as in perserving liberty and not enforcing xernophobia, as its become associated with.

Biggest problem with marriage is it should have no legality at all. It is a religious bond, not a government dictation.

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SwedishSkinJer

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#21  Edited By SwedishSkinJer
Fei said:
Yeah, I see what you're saying. I was impling social conservatism as in perserving liberty and not enforcing xernophobia, as ... [more]
Not necessarily.  I'm an atheist, so marriage has no religious significance to me.  It is a personal relationship that can have many motivations behind it, including a love between individuals that can involve many things, but not solely spiritualty.  I can marry in my backyard, city hall, etc.  Are you implying that only religious individuals should marry?  I simply think that we should allow any law-abiding citizen to obtain a civil contract, and THEN churches can bless any marriage.  However, civil contracts outside of the church should also be acknowledged as marriage, but there are no religious ties.
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Fei

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#22  Edited By Fei

I to am non-religious. I mean that government shouldnt even need civil contract. I have a 3 year old and met my ex-girlfriend 7 years ago. We never married. The only practical reason to get married was for a tax break. I dont necessarily think marriage should be a part of law at all.

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SwedishSkinJer

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#23  Edited By SwedishSkinJer

I see what you mean.  There are a few complexities.  If you live together with your partner, and there are deaths or a divorce, a settlement must be made to sort out who receives what.  How would the legality behind this hold up if we didn't have some sort of legal contract to confirm that the two individuals did indeed have a relationship that would qualify them for a piece of the settlement?  There are other situations where not establishing some civil contract would be tricky.  However, I do agree that the government is way too involved in marriage.

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lilburtonboy7489

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#24  Edited By lilburtonboy7489
daniel_beck_90 said:
lilburtonboy7489 said: I don't get it. So many people claim to favor the Republicans because they don't want the government ... [more]
I disagree. There is a difference between making everyone materially equal, and treating people equal. I believe socialism is completely evil in theory and in practice.

And you're right, I think it was the banking bailout that the Republicans supported. I have gotten all the bailouts and stimuli (is tat plural for stimulus?) mixed up. 
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SwedishSkinJer

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#25  Edited By SwedishSkinJer

I think the Republicans didn't do enough when they had Bush and Congress before 2006.  I simply believe that it will become a power game between the two parties.  One party wins, the other party demonizes them until the next election, and it continues.  We need a viable third party.

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lilburtonboy7489

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#26  Edited By lilburtonboy7489
Fei said:
I to am non-religious. I mean that government shouldnt even need civil contract. I have a 3 year old and ... [more]
Correct. I actually oppose homosexuality very strongly for religious reasons. However, as a Christian I believe that God created us to choose the right choices, not be prohibited by law. The government should not be legislating morality, especially when other people have different moral views. Marriage and the state should be completely separate. 
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SwedishSkinJer

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#27  Edited By SwedishSkinJer
lilburtonboy7489 said:
Fei said: I to am non-religious. I mean that government shouldnt even need civil contract. I have a 3 year ... [more]
I respect you for stating this.  Legislating morality is wrong.  I oppose many things that are law, but I acknowledge that my personal views cannot dictate the entire legal system.  I can personally oppose something, but, like the Libertarian platform says, we can't let our personal views precede legality and the reality of the matter.  I have a gay brother who pays his taxes, volunteers in his community, etc, but, according to some Republicans, he's a pedophile who should be controlled by the government's views.
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SwedishSkinJer

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#28  Edited By SwedishSkinJer

Also, has anyone ever noticed that government-sanctioned prohibition on a social level generally fails, and in fact succeeds in increasing support for certain social issues?  The Prohibitions of the past only encouraged finding new ways to bypass the social dictation of a hungry government.

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Amorfati

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#29  Edited By Amorfati
nrh79 said:
In recent years, I've grown more cynical about politics.  I finally concluded that defending republicans is about as smart as ... [more]
"Nearly all of the major players are corrupt."

What do you mean by this?
They exploit other for their own benefits? What is wrong with that? If they have the power to exploit others and the will to do so then they are entitled to any benefits they gain from such activities.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
Do you believe in this aphorism?

Great men create their own sentiment and values; lesser men react to their oppressors values: villanize their masters, undermine their sentiment with their own resentment.
Thus, a new aphorism:
Servants claim their master's power has corrupted them, slaves claim their masters are corrupted abseloutely. Weak men are always jealous men.
-----
I know I have a been presumptuous on your behalf in this post but I address it not at you distinctly but at the stereotypical person who believes "major players are corrupt."

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Jayge_

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#30  Edited By Jayge_

Republicans are now the "Moral" Government party. Like everything religious fanatics are allowed to integrate with, its core has withered and died.

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Amorfati

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#31  Edited By Amorfati
Jayge said:
Republicans are now the "Moral" Government party. Like everything religious fanatics are allowed to integrate with, its core has withered ... [more]
Yeah, that's the problem with democracy. Political parties have to dumb-down and cut-short their ideals and goals in order to become more appealing to the majority of voters; It's a popularity contest rather than a superiority contest. If the majority of voters want a centralist-goverment then parties have to adapt their views accordingly.

After all, you could have all the ideas in the world and it doesn't mean a thing if your not elected. We are governed by popular ideas, not great ones.