#1 Edited by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

So after Smallville ended there has been a gap in super hero's on TV. At least of the live action variety. Enter Arrow, a darker more Nolan esque interpretation of Green Arrow. The pilot just aired, and I have to say, it was a pretty awesome start. There is no build up to him being Arrow though as it's not much of an origin story. At least not like Smallville was. The back story will be doled out through flash backs and stuff. A bunch of DC villians have already been announced to make appearences as well, such as Death Stroke and so on. Like I said, I really liked the pilot. Any one else catch it? And if so, what were your thoughts?

#2 Posted by Happenstance (459 posts) -

I thought it was a pretty good start for the show, a few dodgy lines stood out here and there but it seems good. I would like to know though why they felt the need to rename Star City as Starling City.

#3 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (887 posts) -

I havent watched it yet but Im glad its good

#4 Posted by runnah555 (148 posts) -

I must have watched a different show because I thought it was terrible.

#5 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

@Happenstance said:

I thought it was a pretty good start for the show, a few dodgy lines stood out here and there but it seems good. I would like to know though why they felt the need to rename Star City as Starling City.

Yeah that pissed me off as well. So unnecessary.

@runnah555 said:

I must have watched a different show because I thought it was terrible.

What about it was terrible exactly?

#6 Posted by betterboulder (190 posts) -

I liked it. It was alot better than I thought it'd be. Definitely gripped me more than Smallville did.

Their Green Arrow is alot more ruthless than I expected. I guess we won't be seeing any boxing glove arrows in this show.

#7 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

Episode three was great. Really gripping. My cousin said he thought the show looked real cinematic, which is a great compliment to give to TV shows I think. All of them try to be cinematic, but very few I think truly succeed. Also, they aren't holding anything back it seems. The reveal at the end came much sooner then I thought it would.

#8 Edited by Solh0und (1753 posts) -

From the two episodes I've watched(Haven't watched episode 3 yet), It doesn't seem that bad. I have however watched worse superhero shows personally.
 
By the way, I hear that Deadshot is in episode 3. Confirm/deny?

#9 Posted by GunstarRed (4997 posts) -

The first episode aired on monday here in the UK and I really enjoyed it. I was scared it would be another Smallville, but it was pretty entertaining and had good action sequences. I was surprised with how many dudes that he killed.

#10 Posted by UlquioKani (1018 posts) -

This is awesome. They need to work on some of the dialogue to make it seem less cheesy but a really strong debut.

Also, really frustrated by some of the decisions the main character makes in episode 2.

#11 Posted by 42manZ (105 posts) -

Man, I had no idea this was a thing. But I guess, you know, year of the bow! I'll have to check it out when it reaches Netflix or iTunes.

#12 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

@Solh0und said:

From the two episodes I've watched(Haven't watched episode 3 yet), It doesn't seem that bad. I have however watched worse superhero shows personally. By the way, I hear that Deadshot is in episode 3. Confirm/deny?

Confirmed.

#13 Edited by Landon (4127 posts) -

I only watched the first episode and I liked it ok. I think I'll wait out the season and see if it gets any better. Don't want to get invested with slightly above average TV right now.

#14 Posted by project343 (2810 posts) -

First episode was more Smallville (read: hot guy, terrible acting, superhero, cheesy as fuck, poorly written) mixed with some Batman-ey stuff. Maybe I'll keep going, but if you want good--nay, great--TV super-hero content, Misfits is the way to go.

#15 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

@project343 said:

First episode was more Smallville (read: hot guy, terrible acting, superhero, cheesy as fuck, poorly written) mixed with some Batman-ey stuff. Maybe I'll keep going, but if you want good--nay, great--TV super-hero content, Misfits is the way to go.

As someone who adored Smallville and found it very entertaining, I don't agree with your sentiment. It felt nothing like Smallville which at least initially was more High School drama-esque. Arrow feels more Batman-ey as you put it. Also, I'm really liking the cast, especially Katie Cassidy. She's purty.

#16 Posted by JJWeatherman (14557 posts) -

You can't say "and so on" after listing only one name. Well, I mean, you just did, but...

Who is Death Stroke, anyway?

I don't think I'm the target demographic for this.

#17 Posted by WarlordPayne (694 posts) -

I have no Green Arrow knowledge so I don't know how far they're veering from the comic but so far I've enjoyed it. It's not the greatest thing ever but it's interesting.

Although, for me, anything that isn't a cop/lawyer/doctor/reality show already has a huge leg up on nearly everything on TV.

#18 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

@JJWeatherman said:

You can't say "and so on" after listing only one name. Well, I mean, you just did, but...

Who is Death Stroke, anyway?

I don't think I'm the target demographic for this.

You don't really need to know much or be in the "target demographic" to enjoy it. Also, Deathstroke, Huntress, Deadshot and so on... Better? =)

All you need to know is that the show is starting off with a bang, dropping really big named DC characters into the world straight from the get go. It took Smallville a couple of years before they started throwing in other big name DC comic characters.

#19 Posted by BabyChooChoo (4252 posts) -

I really like the show so far. I feel like the pacing is kind of fast, but that may be due in part to them starting the story "in the middle," so to speak, while working their way forward and backward at the same time. I dunno, but it just feels "off." Other than that, there's a few cheesy lines and weird choices here and there, but nothing that breaks the show for me.

#20 Posted by I_Stay_Puft (2955 posts) -

He sleeps with his girlfriends sister before she drowns. That's so Batman.

#21 Edited by project343 (2810 posts) -

@LiquidPrince: My comparisons to Smallville were mostly with regard to the quality and 'feeling.' It just feels like a low-quality super-hero-themed TV romp. Tonally and narratively, you're not wrong: it's a lot closer to Batman and that's pretty cool.

I guess my standards for quality TV serial dramas is a bit high. I mostly watch Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Sherlock, and Misfits--all of which have a tendency to make me forget that I'm watching the "lesser" (read: lower budget/consumer-manipulative) medium of television (as compared to film). The pilot for Arrow just reminded me that yup, I'm watching some television-ass-TV.

#22 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

@project343 said:

@LiquidPrince: My comparisons to Smallville were mostly with regard to the quality and 'feeling.' It just feels like a low-quality super-hero-themed TV romp. Tonally and narratively, you're not wrong: it's a lot closer to Batman and that's pretty cool.

I guess my standards for quality TV serial dramas is a bit high. I mostly watch Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Sherlock, and Misfits--all of which have a tendency to make me forget that I'm watching the "lesser" (read: lower budget/consumer-manipulative) medium of television (as compared to film). The pilot for Arrow just reminded me that yup, I'm watching some television-ass-TV.

Really? There are only a few series I have ever watched that really gave me that "this show is cinematic" feeling:

  • Smallville - Especially in the later seasons, had some of the best visual effects around.
  • Supernatural - This show is shot very well. Very cinematic, and the monster gore and decapitations and general monster mutilations look fantastic.
  • Walking Dead - Really high movie quality make up and visual effects work.
  • Chuck - This show felt intentionally campy, yet still managed to bring the globe trotting and adventure feel week to week.

There are more, and I'm not trying to convince your or anything, but Arrow I feel falls under the cinematic category. The way it's shot(camera work), the locations, the editing, the visual filters etc... all feel top notch to me. There were some pacing issues in episodes 1 and 2, but 3 was excellent.

#23 Edited by project343 (2810 posts) -

@LiquidPrince: I'll be honest and say that I haven't seen an episode of Smallville in years. I'll take your word for it, but it isn't just about being on-par with film from a technical standpoint. Shows like Breaking Bad, Mad Men and Boardwalk Empire have an artistry to them that you just don't see in television. A lot of it is cinematic flair, but a lot of it is quality writing. And I don't think Walking Dead is particularly well written at all (it's the only series in your list that I've given enough of a fuck about to keep going). Tonally, they set a pace that I just don't think the cinematography justifiably earns, and the whole things feels like it's being constrained by a very set-in-stone budget.

Quiet character moments are fine if your writing and cinematography can make the moment special, but so much of The Walking Dead is a series of poorly-executed character reactions to particular events or conflicts. Girl gets lost? Okay, now lets go around the group for the next 2 episodes and see what everyone has to say on the matter. If you compare that to the S05E02 intro of Breaking Bad, which is a similar off-the-beaten-path narrative interlude to add a bit of character and context to events in the world... it's staggering to see how successfully the series pulls it off. And to make the comparison that much more unjustifiably similar, the whole matter revolves around a character and portion of the world that you meet for only those couple of minutes.

Throughout this same episode, you're introduced to a brand new character, and her life is put on the line by the episode's conclusion: roughly 40 minutes later. Within those 40 minutes (she spends less than 10 minutes on screen throughout), they really hit a homerun on making you care about whether or not this character dies regardless of the fact that she's a paranoid scumbag. I've watched every episode released of Walking Dead thus far, and I can name the number of characters I care about on a single hand (Maggie, Daryl, Glenn--and I had to look up their names on the wiki because I couldn't even be bothered to remember them). Everyone else could die in the next episode and I couldn't give any less of a fuck because they're completely forgettable characters or have lost their way from a writing standpoint (Hershel).

I don't know. To each their own, but time is fucking precious in this modern age of media bombardment. As many others have reflected in this thread, there's no room in our lives for average television, and that pilot just screamed average to me. I'll catch up when I'm through my midterms, but my expectations are on the floor for Arrow.

*edit: also, Chuck is also a comedy. I think it's a bit unfair to compare more comedy-oriented titles with the intensity of a really compelling and dark serial drama. I'm sure it's plenty good and watchable.

#24 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

@project343: I feel like you're comparing darker shows with more light hearted ones. Meaning you're comparing HBO shows with shows of any other TV station. HBO is sort of a genre of it's own at this point. Arrow is "dark" but in a fantasy superhero sort of way. Very different then Breaking Bad, which is fantastic and Game of Thrones which is one of my personal favorites. So you're unfairly comparing tone between two very different types genres. What I'm comparing is pure technical cinematic quality. There is a way that things are framed, shot, revealed that makes things feel cinematic. Focal point, variety of sets and locations, props etc...

A lot of the other things you were talking about are subjective. I care for the entirety of the remaining cast on the Walking Dead. That's what makes the deaths feel so gruesome and overwhelming.

#25 Posted by RazielCuts (2911 posts) -

@I_Stay_Puft said:

He sleeps with his girlfriends sister before she drowns. That's so Batman.

It's all so Batman :P He's a rich dude who has a secret lair that knows martial arts and his best friend is going to betray him and become his arch nemesis.

I think it's been pretty good so far, some good actiony bits and little flashs from the island to keep it going. My only gripe with the show so far is after 3 episodes they still feel the need to remind the viewer the history of what's happened, it's like they're going through a recap checklist each episode of 'things to mention.'

  • been stranded on an island - check
  • for 5 years - check
  • dads dead - check
  • new CEO married to my mum - check
  • slept with my girlfriends sister - check
  • best friend slept with my girlfriend whilst on the island - check

'Okay, now on with this episodes plot'

I feel like Laurel, or someone else, is constantly reminding the audience Oli slept with Laurel's sister (and that wasn't cool man), it's getting quite annoying and feels like padding.

#26 Posted by project343 (2810 posts) -

@LiquidPrince: I've taken the time to watch the other two released episodes thus far. It seems pretty solid now that they've taken the time to really elaborate on some of the characters in some meaningful ways. My biggest complaint is that a lot of the writing and acting feels really ham-fisted like a bad soap. There are a few too many moments where you'll get two characters on screen and they'll turn on their overly dramatic tone, cue in some sappy soap music, and spit out some truly bewildering and unnatural dialogue at one another. It just lacks the subtlety and nuance of naturalistic writing. If you want an example, just watch any particularly dramatic moment with his mother--it's usually distracting enough to make me pause the show to have a laugh.

@RazielCuts said:

I think it's been pretty good so far, some good actiony bits and little flashs from the island to keep it going. My only gripe with the show so far is after 3 episodes they still feel the need to remind the viewer the history of what's happened, it's like they're going through a recap checklist each episode of 'things to mention.'

I couldn't agree more. From a dramatic standpoint, there is way too much hitting the audience over the head. It was my same issue with Smallville: it just feels like the writers are uncomfortable with the dramatic serial format--particularly when compared to AMC or HBO. But its got a bit of a budget, and it's pretty fun to watch so who's complaining?

#27 Posted by Sauson (560 posts) -

I've never really liked DC characters, I've always been a bigger fan of Marvel but I gave this a shot and it's actually pretty good. It certainly has its share of flaws but I'll keep watching it.

#28 Posted by I_Stay_Puft (2955 posts) -

@RazielCuts said:

@I_Stay_Puft said:

He sleeps with his girlfriends sister before she drowns. That's so Batman.

It's all so Batman :P He's a rich dude who has a secret lair that knows martial arts and his best friend is going to betray him and become his arch nemesis.

I think it's been pretty good so far, some good actiony bits and little flashs from the island to keep it going. My only gripe with the show so far is after 3 episodes they still feel the need to remind the viewer the history of what's happened, it's like they're going through a recap checklist each episode of 'things to mention.'

  • been stranded on an island - check
  • for 5 years - check
  • dads dead - check
  • new CEO married to my mum - check
  • slept with my girlfriends sister - check
  • best friend slept with my girlfriend whilst on the island - check

'Okay, now on with this episodes plot'

I feel like Laurel, or someone else, is constantly reminding the audience Oli slept with Laurel's sister (and that wasn't cool man), it's getting quite annoying and feels like padding.

Also can't forget that playboy Oliver Queen has long flocks of hair and no goatee, while dark, brooding, hero of justice Oliver Queen has a buzzcut and facial hair. We all know where this is going, Brad Shoemaker is San Fransisco's Green Arrow.

#29 Posted by ahgunsillyo (443 posts) -

@LiquidPrince: I watched the first three episodes of Arrow, and I like it and think it's rather well done. It's a very different type of show than Smallville, and I think it serves as a nice change of pace after 10 years of that show. The difference in tone and realism does also help to set Arrow apart from what has been done before, especially since a lot of the characters (Green Arrow, Black Canary, Deadshot, Deathstroke, etc.) already showed up in Smallville.

I have to say that they seem to be injecting just a bit too much of Nolan's Batman into this version of Oliver Queen (which makes a certain amount of sense, given how immensely successful that franchise has become and how much of the original fundamentals of the Green Arrow character was obviously and perhaps shamelessly cribbed from Batman), so a lot of it does seem a bit familiar. For example, the first time you see Arrow in costume is on top of a car in a shadowy area as he is threatening a frightened mob boss after taking out his entire posse, which is exactly how you see Batman in his costume for the first time in Batman Begins. However, Arrow still does manage to provide a different story and world, thanks largely to a diverse cast of likable characters and an engaging mystery surrounding Oliver's five years on the island.

I think the show is pretty well-cast, with Stephen Amell doing a great job at being both dickish and frighteningly cold. However, I do think that Paul Blackthorne's Detective Lance is a bit too hammy for the rest of the show, and his character feels a bit like a caricature.

Overall, I think it's a pretty cool show. I think the action and acrobatics are pretty visceral and the drama is engaging and makes me want to watch more.

However, why don't they just give him a physical domino mask? Is that somehow any less realistic than putting on makeup to make it look like a domino mask?

#30 Posted by UlquioKani (1018 posts) -

The third episode made me hate every character apart from Oliver and his bodyguard.

#31 Posted by mordukai (7129 posts) -

Watched the pilot, got bored out of my mind. The show, much like Smallville, just doesn't click with me. I don't think I'll explore it any further.

#32 Posted by Solh0und (1753 posts) -

Hmm seems like this week's episode isn't airing until Saturday here.

Bummer....

#33 Posted by UlquioKani (1018 posts) -

Every time someone gives Oliver shit for not caring makes me want to punch the TV. Goddamn it. Batman had it as well but they are dragging it out more with this and I hate it. ARRGGGGHHHH

#34 Posted by Solh0und (1753 posts) -

Bringing this thread back from the dead with this:

Deathstroke appearance!

#35 Posted by UlquioKani (1018 posts) -

@Solh0und: He looked kinda dumb

#36 Edited by Krisstyna (1 posts) -

........

#37 Posted by Xerxes8933A (226 posts) -

@Sauson said:

I've never really liked DC characters, I've always been a bigger fan of Marvel but I gave this a shot and it's actually pretty good. It certainly has its share of flaws but I'll keep watching it.

Aye, Green Arrow is one of the few good DC characters IMO. It's the flaws that make a good character, and most DC characters are pretty flawless compared to the Marvel ones.

#38 Posted by Clonedzero (4059 posts) -

i'll admit the show isn't great, but its entertaining and ive been enjoying it so fuck you lol lots of corny stuff, but the action is well done

#39 Posted by I_Stay_Puft (2955 posts) -

I'm caught up with the show cause of Hulu Plus and for the most part I enjoy it. I just don't know if the actor who plays Green Arrow is a good fit, in the back of my mind I know I shouldn't but I'm always comparing him with Green Arrow in the comics, which he isn't. Anybody else getting a Lost vibe going with this whole "stuck on an island for 5 years" thing.

#40 Posted by Sauson (560 posts) -

@Xerxes8933A said:

@Sauson said:

I've never really liked DC characters, I've always been a bigger fan of Marvel but I gave this a shot and it's actually pretty good. It certainly has its share of flaws but I'll keep watching it.

Aye, Green Arrow is one of the few good DC characters IMO. It's the flaws that make a good character, and most DC characters are pretty flawless compared to the Marvel ones.

I meant the show has flaws not the character but I disagree that "DC characters are pretty flawless compared Marvel's". I'm not going to get into a debate over this because this isn't comicvine.