" People saying he went too far with it clearly have never been bullied. "
This, pretty much. In fact those people are probably the bullies to begin with. I remember back when I was a fat slob when I was 10. If only I had done that move instead of just kicking the kid in the balls back then. "
I've been bullied. That's still some crazy shit. See that corner on the floor? If the bully's head had gone there, that's no more bully. I got picked on and punched and whatnot. I some times put up a bit of a fight, sometimes I didn't. From experience, the times I didn't ended better for everybody. You know what? I hate that attitude. "I don't condone violence, unless it suits *me*". Bullshit. You either get into the cycle of fighting and then you'd better hope you're the strongest one there is or you don't and you prove your point in a different way. The kid went too far and a suspension is right, moral high ground or not. You may choose to fight back but then accept the consequences. "
I saw that corner perfectly when it cracked his ankel instead of his head. Sadly... And the attitude: "I don't condone violence, unless it suits me" is pretty dumb, I agree. I do however condone violence when it suits me. I got picked up and punched a lot I decided to fight back one day instead of "ignoring" it as people always told me to do. Bullying stopped all of a sudden... weird huh? "
Oh, come on. Bullied stopped for me when it stopped. Which is when we all got old enough to realize how stupid the whole thing was. It also got noticeably better when I got some friends and I started walking around with them. But I never fought a bully back and didn't regret it later.
But hey, if you do condone violence when it suits you that's fine.
But it *does* make you a bully. I don't like bullies.
@Wrighteous86 said:
Exactly my point. You know what? I'm against torture. However, I understand that in some instances, torturing a suspect is the quickest and only option we have in order to save lives. I don't think our country should support it. If an agent resorts to torture to get answers, I will understand completely. I also think that agent should be punished to the full extent of the law. The way I see it, the agent knows his actions will have repercussions, so he'll only resort to those actions if they are entirely necessary. I'd respect the agent to do what he felt necessary and accept the consequences. What I wouldn't respect is if the agent tortured his suspect, and was then let off the hook because of the situation, or because the definition of torture was "changed" to get out of punishing him. If we don't stick to the rules when they're inconvenient, we can't rely on them when they are. The bloodlust from some of the nerds on this board is disturbing, and makes me think that if situations were reversed, they would totally be bullies. "
You know what? I don't disagree with anything you just said, even though the hypothetical "24" scenario is used more often than not to justify organized torture, so I'd rather avoid it. Otherwise, yeah, I agree with the underlying point.
"The bloodlust from some of the nerds on this board is disturbing, and makes me think that if situations were reversed, they would totally be bullies. "
That is exactly what bullying does though. It turns innocent kids into sadists because no one will help them. Schools should be better about this stuff. I think they are better now but that Zero tolerance policy is still bullshit. Learn more about a situation and fix things accordingly. The kid went to far but only because the school, the bully's parents, and the bully let this go unchecked.
" What did that retarded kid expect when he's taking on someone larger than himself? Brutal piledriver, hopefully he did enough damage to make that kid think twice. And those of you trying to defend the bully ... disgusting. "
He thought he could do it because most people don't fight back which is really a shame.
" People saying he went too far with it clearly have never been bullied. "
This, pretty much. In fact those people are probably the bullies to begin with. I remember back when I was a fat slob when I was 10. If only I had done that move instead of just kicking the kid in the balls back then. "
I've been bullied. That's still some crazy shit. See that corner on the floor? If the bully's head had gone there, that's no more bully. I got picked on and punched and whatnot. I some times put up a bit of a fight, sometimes I didn't. From experience, the times I didn't ended better for everybody. You know what? I hate that attitude. "I don't condone violence, unless it suits *me*". Bullshit. You either get into the cycle of fighting and then you'd better hope you're the strongest one there is or you don't and you prove your point in a different way. The kid went too far and a suspension is right, moral high ground or not. You may choose to fight back but then accept the consequences. "
Exactly my point. You know what? I'm against torture. However, I understand that in some instances, torturing a suspect is the quickest and only option we have in order to save lives. I don't think our country should support it. If an agent resorts to torture to get answers, I will understand completely. I also think that agent should be punished to the full extent of the law. The way I see it, the agent knows his actions will have repercussions, so he'll only resort to those actions if they are entirely necessary. I'd respect the agent to do what he felt necessary and accept the consequences. What I wouldn't respect is if the agent tortured his suspect, and was then let off the hook because of the situation, or because the definition of torture was "changed" to get out of punishing him. If we don't stick to the rules when they're inconvenient, we can't rely on them when they are. The bloodlust from some of the nerds on this board is disturbing, and makes me think that if situations were reversed, they would totally be bullies. "
As someone that was bullied frequently while growing up, the only two kids I managed to stop bullying me happened to be the two kids I fought back against and won. One was a punch to the nose. The other was a clothesline. I don't regret performing either, and in retrospect wish I could have done more damage to some of the other kids, because I was seriously the school punching bag back in the day and it aggravates me to no end when school authorities react to bullying in the most wishy-washy, mild-mannered ways possible.
"What did that retarded kid expect when he's taking on someone larger than himself? Brutal piledriver, hopefully he did enough damage to make that kid think twice. And those of you trying to defend the bully ... disgusting. "
there's a difference between defending a bully and saying that that kid could've killed him. standing your ground against a bully is good almost killing said bully is not good it's why it's a moral dilemma and all sides must be taken into account
" People saying he went too far with it clearly have never been bullied. "
This, pretty much. In fact those people are probably the bullies to begin with. I remember back when I was a fat slob when I was 10. If only I had done that move instead of just kicking the kid in the balls back then. "
I've been bullied. That's still some crazy shit. See that corner on the floor? If the bully's head had gone there, that's no more bully. I got picked on and punched and whatnot. I some times put up a bit of a fight, sometimes I didn't. From experience, the times I didn't ended better for everybody. You know what? I hate that attitude. "I don't condone violence, unless it suits *me*". Bullshit. You either get into the cycle of fighting and then you'd better hope you're the strongest one there is or you don't and you prove your point in a different way. The kid went too far and a suspension is right, moral high ground or not. You may choose to fight back but then accept the consequences. "
Exactly my point. You know what? I'm against torture. However, I understand that in some instances, torturing a suspect is the quickest and only option we have in order to save lives. I don't think our country should support it. If an agent resorts to torture to get answers, I will understand completely. I also think that agent should be punished to the full extent of the law. The way I see it, the agent knows his actions will have repercussions, so he'll only resort to those actions if they are entirely necessary. I'd respect the agent to do what he felt necessary and accept the consequences. What I wouldn't respect is if the agent tortured his suspect, and was then let off the hook because of the situation, or because the definition of torture was "changed" to get out of punishing him. If we don't stick to the rules when they're inconvenient, we can't rely on them when they are. The bloodlust from some of the nerds on this board is disturbing, and makes me think that if situations were reversed, they would totally be bullies. "
As someone that was bullied frequently while growing up, the only two kids I managed to stop bullying me happened to be the two kids I fought back against and won. One was a punch to the nose. The other was a clothesline. I don't regret performing either, and in retrospect wish I could have done more damage to some of the other kids, because I was seriously the school punching bag back in the day and it aggravates me to no end when school authorities react to bullying in the most wishy-washy, mild-mannered ways possible. "
Right, but if you did that in front of a principal (or in this case, on camera), you would expect to be suspended, correct?
If it were me, I'd do it, knowing that there would be repercussions and accepting the fact. I wouldn't be morally outraged that the school punished me for injuring another student. The same thing happens all the time in "the real world". If I go home to find someone fucking my wife, that doesn't give me free reign to respond physically to either of the people fucking in my bed. I'd still probably beat the shit out of the guy, but I wouldn't be pissed off at the cops that hauled me away.
@Wrighteous86: You keep making references that are not at all related.
The poor kid was being bullied for a while and he let them know he won't take it anymore. You can't fault the kid being bullied for that. Ya the punishment he gave to the bully was extreme, but hes a kid, untrained, he doesnt know any better. He was the big man and when he saw he did damage he walked away.
I would expect nothing less. I know its not popular opinion, but i think he did the right thing in his situation. He does need to learn to fight to more aptly handle himself and not kill his opponent he just wants to back off, but in the terms of being a kid standing up for himself I see no fault.
This has nothing to do with columbine or Hiroshima. Those are awful examples meant to make your argument have weight. They have no baring on this incident.
As for the school punishing both kids, that is unavoidable. If they don't they are liable for damages. Sometimes thats just how it is. I just hope the kid being bullied knows he did the right thing. My only issue with your comments are your relating this to completely unrelated historic events in order to make your point more dramatic. It doesn't fit and is unnecessary.
"The bloodlust from some of the nerds on this board is disturbing, and makes me think that if situations were reversed, they would totally be bullies. "
That is exactly what bullying does though. It turns innocent kids into sadists because no one will help them. Schools should be better about this stuff. I think they are better now but that Zero tolerance policy is still bullshit. Learn more about a situation and fix things accordingly. The kid went to far but only because the school, the bully's parents, and the bully let this go unchecked. "
to be fair i don't think we know the school knew about this, most of the time the kids know but not the teachers. also if the school was enforcing zero tolerance they would've both been expelled, i think the fact that the kid only got suspended for 4 days and the bully got suspended for 21 days shows the school knew who was to blame.
"The bloodlust from some of the nerds on this board is disturbing, and makes me think that if situations were reversed, they would totally be bullies. "
That is exactly what bullying does though. It turns innocent kids into sadists because no one will help them. Schools should be better about this stuff. I think they are better now but that Zero tolerance policy is still bullshit. Learn more about a situation and fix things accordingly. The kid went to far but only because the school, the bully's parents, and the bully let this go unchecked. "
Yeah, there are definite issues with bullying in schools. They need to find a better way to address them, but not punishing a student for injuring another student on camera, no matter who instigated, is not the way to do that. I'm glad the kid stood up for himself, but it's unreasonable and inappropriate to not have the school respond to his actions. "
He should have been punished yes but its hard to explain to people that have been bullied why he should because alot of us wish we had the balls to do what he did. I still say the way it ended was probably the best since the kid didn't die and I'm sure when the bullied kid gets back he might not get fucked with anymore and he'll have some cred.
Right, but if you did that in front of a principal (or in this case, on camera), you would expect to be suspended, correct? "
I've fucked a bitch up before and the principal defended me. It turns out not all school administrations are incompetent. "
Yours apparently was.
@CornBREDX said:
" @Wrighteous86: As for the school punishing both kids, that is unavoidable. If they don't they are liable for damages. Sometimes thats just how it is. I just hope the kid being bullied knows he did the right thing. . "
"What did that retarded kid expect when he's taking on someone larger than himself? Brutal piledriver, hopefully he did enough damage to make that kid think twice. And those of you trying to defend the bully ... disgusting. "
there's a difference between defending a bully and saying that that kid could've killed him. standing your ground against a bully is good almost killing said bully is not good it's why it's a moral dilemma and all sides must be taken into account "
With a hurt angle the bully won't be able to hunt with the herd and will die a slow painful death of starvation.
" @Wrighteous86: Sure, but damn if it wouldn't be worth it. "
This. Now that little prick and his friends will go find someone else to pick on and leave Zangeif alone because they know he will actually fight back. Had he ignored it it he would have just kept on being a physical and verbal punching bag used to advance the bullies social status. Had he gone to a teacher if just would have gotten worse since schools won't help you when class ends. I think the worst part of this video is the fact that there are so many kids sitting around watching and doing nothing.
"What did that retarded kid expect when he's taking on someone larger than himself? Brutal piledriver, hopefully he did enough damage to make that kid think twice. And those of you trying to defend the bully ... disgusting. "
there's a difference between defending a bully and saying that that kid could've killed him. standing your ground against a bully is good almost killing said bully is not good it's why it's a moral dilemma and all sides must be taken into account "
With a hurt angle the bully won't be able to hunt with the herd and will die a slow painful death of starvation. "
laugh all you want but if that kid landed on his head it could have been a lot worse
" @LordXavierBritish: If two guys get in a bar fight, the cops don't ask who started it. They both get arrested. "
Yes, they both get arrested, then there's an investigation. If the investigation shows that one party acted in self-defence, that party rightfully goes free.
Every post you've made in this thread has just been filled with ignorance. Shut up.
"What did that retarded kid expect when he's taking on someone larger than himself? Brutal piledriver, hopefully he did enough damage to make that kid think twice. And those of you trying to defend the bully ... disgusting. "
there's a difference between defending a bully and saying that that kid could've killed him. standing your ground against a bully is good almost killing said bully is not good it's why it's a moral dilemma and all sides must be taken into account "
With a hurt angle the bully won't be able to hunt with the herd and will die a slow painful death of starvation. "
laugh all you want but if that kid landed on his head it could have been a lot worse "
"What did that retarded kid expect when he's taking on someone larger than himself? Brutal piledriver, hopefully he did enough damage to make that kid think twice. And those of you trying to defend the bully ... disgusting. "
there's a difference between defending a bully and saying that that kid could've killed him. standing your ground against a bully is good almost killing said bully is not good it's why it's a moral dilemma and all sides must be taken into account "
With a hurt angle the bully won't be able to hunt with the herd and will die a slow painful death of starvation. "
laugh all you want but if that kid landed on his head it could have been a lot worse "
A lot of shit could have happened. If you spend you're life worrying about what could happen you won't get much done.
Big kid got lost in the moment after all the bullying and did something maybe a bit extreme but he did stop after the drop, he didn't start kicking the little one in the face repeatedly like some people might of. The little kid deserves everything he gets (unless it gets crazy) and the big kid needs some punishment. The school should get punished for crap like this being able to happen for so long as well though, seems a bit hypocritical and stupid that the school allows this to happen and then when shit hits the fan and the inevitable occurs to turn around and punish the victim. Whatever. Got a little kick out of the vid
If I get punched, yes I have the right to punch back. If I get punched I do not have the right to nearly kill the person who punched me. That is not an acceptable reaction. I'm all for standing up for yourself. Good on Casey for doing so, but he deserves to be punished as well. He took it too far.
" @LordXavierBritish: If two guys get in a bar fight, the cops don't ask who started it. They both get arrested. "
Yes, they both get arrested, then there's an investigation. If the investigation shows that one party acted in self-defence, that party rightfully goes free. Every post you've made in this thread has just been filled with ignorance. Shut up. "
No u.
To be acquitted of any kind of physical harm-related crime (such as assault and battery and homicide) using the self-defense justification, one must prove legal provocation, meaning that one must prove that they were in a position where not using self-defense would most likely lead to death, serious injuries and property damage.
The right to self-defense granted by law to the private citizen is strictly limited. Use of force that goes beyond what is necessary to dispel the immediate threat of violence is known as excessive self defence (also self-defence with excessive force, excessive self-defence).
"The bloodlust from some of the nerds on this board is disturbing, and makes me think that if situations were reversed, they would totally be bullies. "
That is exactly what bullying does though. It turns innocent kids into sadists because no one will help them. Schools should be better about this stuff. I think they are better now but that Zero tolerance policy is still bullshit. Learn more about a situation and fix things accordingly. The kid went to far but only because the school, the bully's parents, and the bully let this go unchecked. "
to be fair i don't think we know the school knew about this, most of the time the kids know but not the teachers. also if the school was enforcing zero tolerance they would've both been expelled, i think the fact that the kid only got suspended for 4 days and the bully got suspended for 21 days shows the school knew who was to blame. "
True but if the kid was getting hit in the face he must have some strong skin to not show any bruises. Although this could also be the first time the bully tried something physical as well. Point is the people are angry because they were bullied and the bullied kid got punished for standing up for himself (in a dangerous way, a way that does deserve some punishment). Understandable why people would have bloodlust for this kid. I doubt anyone will find this kid and end him though.
" If I get punched, yes I have the right to punch back. If I get punched I do not have the right to nearly kill the person who punched me. That is not an acceptable reaction. I'm all for standing up for yourself. Good on Casey for doing so, but he deserves to be punished as well. He took it too far. "
Had Zangeif punched that little douche it would have destroyed is face.
" If I get punched, yes I have the right to punch back. If I get punched I do not have the right to nearly kill the person who punched me. That is not an acceptable reaction. I'm all for standing up for yourself. Good on Casey for doing so, but he deserves to be punished as well. He took it too far. "
Had Zangeif punched that little douche it would have destroyed is face. "
Exactly. He could have made the kid back off using much less dangerous force. I'm pretty sure that kid would've taken a broken nose over a broken neck.
@Wrighteous86: A slap to the face? Make that years of torment. Not the same thing. kid did not deserve to be suspended - a warning would do, clearly explaning that that he may have gone a little too far. Clearly you have not been in a situation like that before. Your emotions get ahold of you and logic falls to the wayside - the kid was clearly desperate and alone and snapped
" @LordXavierBritish: If two guys get in a bar fight, the cops don't ask who started it. They both get arrested. "
Yes, they both get arrested, then there's an investigation. If the investigation shows that one party acted in self-defence, that party rightfully goes free. Every post you've made in this thread has just been filled with ignorance. Shut up. "
No u.
To be acquitted of any kind of physical harm-related crime (such as assault and battery and homicide) using the self-defense justification, one must prove legal provocation, meaning that one must prove that they were in a position where not using self-defense would most likely lead to death, serious injuries and property damage. The right to self-defense granted by law to the private citizen is strictly limited. Use of force that goes beyond what is necessary to dispel the immediate threat of violence is known as excessive self defence (also self-defence with excessive force, excessive self-defence). A pile-driver in response to a slap is excessive. "
If I ever meet you in real life I'm going to bully the shit out of you and see what you do. =)
" If I get punched, yes I have the right to punch back. If I get punched I do not have the right to nearly kill the person who punched me. That is not an acceptable reaction. I'm all for standing up for yourself. Good on Casey for doing so, but he deserves to be punished as well. He took it too far. "
Had Zangeif punched that little douche it would have destroyed is face. "
Exactly. He could have made the kid back off using much less dangerous force. I'm pretty sure that kid would've taken a broken nose over a broken neck. "
@ShadowMountain: The point is, the self-defense argument would not work in this case. I understand the actions of the big kid, but I also agree that the school couldn't allow it. Suspended for 4 days is not a big deal, the bully got 21. I don't think that is a travesty.
" @LordXavierBritish: If two guys get in a bar fight, the cops don't ask who started it. They both get arrested. "
Yes, they both get arrested, then there's an investigation. If the investigation shows that one party acted in self-defence, that party rightfully goes free. Every post you've made in this thread has just been filled with ignorance. Shut up. "
No u.
To be acquitted of any kind of physical harm-related crime (such as assault and battery and homicide) using the self-defense justification, one must prove legal provocation, meaning that one must prove that they were in a position where not using self-defense would most likely lead to death, serious injuries and property damage. The right to self-defense granted by law to the private citizen is strictly limited. Use of force that goes beyond what is necessary to dispel the immediate threat of violence is known as excessive self defence (also self-defence with excessive force, excessive self-defence). A pile-driver in response to a slap is excessive. "
If you are going to dispute your own point then why even make it.
And that wasn't really a piledriver. He grabbed him and threw him down. If it was a proper piledriver that kid would actually be fucked up.
" @LordXavierBritish: If two guys get in a bar fight, the cops don't ask who started it. They both get arrested. "
Yes, they both get arrested, then there's an investigation. If the investigation shows that one party acted in self-defence, that party rightfully goes free. Every post you've made in this thread has just been filled with ignorance. Shut up. "
No u.
To be acquitted of any kind of physical harm-related crime (such as assault and battery and homicide) using the self-defense justification, one must prove legal provocation, meaning that one must prove that they were in a position where not using self-defense would most likely lead to death, serious injuries and property damage. The right to self-defense granted by law to the private citizen is strictly limited. Use of force that goes beyond what is necessary to dispel the immediate threat of violence is known as excessive self defence (also self-defence with excessive force, excessive self-defence). A pile-driver in response to a slap is excessive. "
If I ever meet you in real life I'm going to bully the shit out of you and see what you do. =) "
So every time I point out that the school was doing what it had to do, someone is going to interpret that as me not understanding the plight of the picked-on? I understand his actions. It's unreasonable to expect the school to let him get away with it though.
A lot of you were picked on. Sorry bout'cha. The school still had to punish him.
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