What if a father doesn't want an abortion, does he have any say in it? It's not right that a mother has the right to kill his child.
Do father's have a say in abortion?
It's not murder, and it's not a child.
"It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception.I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
Well, life may begin at conception, but sperm inside an egg can't be called a human.
"Arkthemaniac said:I agree with you, but this topic is going to get ugly, real fast."It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
"Arkthemaniac said:Way ahead of yourself arnt you?"It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?
"Austin said:Yep!"Arkthemaniac said:I agree with you, but this topic is going to get ugly, real fast.""It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
inb4tehugly
Everyone saying this topic will get ugly is what will make this topic get ugly.
The father should have a say, but it is ultimately the woman's decision.
Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."It depends on how you define life. After 11 weeks the baby develops a heart and other human characteristics. It could be debated that conception is not the point of life, but the point of implantation is.
"Well, life may begin at conception, but sperm inside an egg can't be called a human.A fetus can feel pain also. I imagine a doctor pulling me out of my mother's womb with a pair of tongs hurts really really bad!I don't know what the scientific cutoff for this is, but I consider you to be a human and capable for being a victim of murder once you leave the womb."
"Austin said:I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."Arkthemaniac said:Way ahead of yourself arnt you?"It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?"
"Everyone saying this topic will get ugly is what will make this topic get ugly.Well, every single abortion thread I have ever seen has turned into, well a abortion, but thats just my experience.Self-fulfilling prophecy, homes . . ."
before this gets locked/turns ugly, i would like to say that i am pro-life, but i think saying that people should get abortions because a fetus is a baby and it would be murder is just simple minded. The fact that that fetus will later become a life and a productive member of society should be enough of a reason to not get an abortion. now someone will bring rape into the equation and all i can say is that is the only justifiable reason to get one.
"Arkthemaniac said:What's worse? A fetus, which has made no contribution to the world and may not even have an emotional attachment to anyone, being killed or having that fetus grow up in a situation where it isn't loved or cared for properly?"Well, life may begin at conception, but sperm inside an egg can't be called a human.A fetus can feel pain also. I imagine a doctor pulling me out of my mother's womb with a pair of tongs hurts really really bad!"I don't know what the scientific cutoff for this is, but I consider you to be a human and capable for being a victim of murder once you leave the womb."
Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want the abortion. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to guinely wanted to take care of his future kid.
"before this gets locked/turns ugly, i would like to say that i am pro-life, but i think saying that people should get abortions because a fetus is a baby and it would be murder is just simple minded. The fact that that fetus will later become a life and a productive member of society should be enough of a reason to not get an abortion. now someone will bring rape into the equation and all i can say is that is the only justifiable reason to get one."I agree kind sir.
"Arkthemaniac said:I think abortion is somewhat misconstrued. They're just cutting the cord. It's not like they're mixing up their insides with a metal rod . . . anymore. Even if a fetus can feel pain, it doesn't mean it does in an abortion."Well, life may begin at conception, but sperm inside an egg can't be called a human.A fetus can feel pain also. I imagine a doctor pulling me out of my mother's womb with a pair of tongs hurts really really bad!"I don't know what the scientific cutoff for this is, but I consider you to be a human and capable for being a victim of murder once you leave the womb."
I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."If this were common opinion, every man above the age of 15 with hands and access to pictures of women would be considered commiters of genocide.
"Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want it. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to sanguinely wanted to take care of his future kid."How old is he?
"Gunner said:Thats a different thing entirely, the fetus itself is not a functioning human, like i said the fact that a futus will grow into a human is the reason i am pro-life but saying a fetus is a human and shouldn't be killed for that reason alone is just being narrow minded."Austin said:I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t.""Arkthemaniac said:Way ahead of yourself arnt you?"It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?"
I don't meen the sperm alone, I meen once the sperm has fertilized the egg and it has started grow into the shape of a human being, but I understand where your CUMING from."I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."If this were common opinion, every man above the age of 15 with hands and access to pictures of women would be considered commiters of genocide.
"Austin said:17"Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want it. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to sanguinely wanted to take care of his future kid."How old is he?"
"HandsomeDead said:In that case, abortion is obviously the best option. How can a kid bring another kid into the world? Just consider the amount of factors involved and there's no way that he could be a good father at that age."Austin said:17""Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want it. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to sanguinely wanted to take care of his future kid."How old is he?"
"Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want it. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to sanguinely wanted to take care of his future kid."Hey, it works both ways. Is he not selfish for making her go through what is basically shoving a turkey through her area even though she doesn't want to, just so he can be a father?
"Bucketdeth said:But then, what does it matter how much it has grown? If you kill it, it's dead - it won't experience more pain when it's grown than when it's a fetus. So why not allow killing babies that are already born?"Gunner said:Thata another thing entirely, the fetus itself is not a functioning human, like i said the fact that a futus will grow into a human is the reason i am pro-life but saying a fetus is a human and shouldn't be killed for that reason alone is just being narrow minded.""Austin said:I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t.""Arkthemaniac said:Way ahead of yourself arnt you?"It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?"
"Arkthemaniac said:lmfao!!! Nice pun Arkthemaniac!!!I don't meen the sperm alone, I meen once the sperm has fertilized the egg and it has started grow into the shape of a human being, but I understand where your CUMING from.""I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."If this were common opinion, every man above the age of 15 with hands and access to pictures of women would be considered commiters of genocide.
People who say stuff like "oh, it's not even human until X days" are so incredibly in denial. Hmm... when does the first nerve cell develop? Oh yea, quite early, the nerve cell is among the first cells to form.
"I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have had 5 abortions/DNCs. "Doctor's orders." The woman has the decision that has to be made, because it's her body and only my sperm.":O 5 Abortions??? What the hell was wrong with the kids? Were they so sick that the doctor had to order the aborts or was it ur wife's decision?
"Arkthemaniac said:"It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
Failed biology, did you? Life starts with the cell. Not much of an argument, seeing as I shake off hundreds of thousands of cells every day, and even managed to contribute to the mass "murder" of entire organisms when I ate supper today. Spare us the moral absolutist bullshit, please.
"I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have had 5 abortions/DNCs. "Doctor's orders." The woman has the decision that has to be made, because it's her body and only my sperm."This is a good point as well. Every time a man ejaculates, he unloads multiple million sperm cells, and a man doesn't stop making sperm until he's very old (or dies he ever stop? I dunno, I'm not that into biology).
"Gunner said:If pain is the only factor than the two are not the same, babies who are already born have functioning organs and can sustain his/her life on his/her own. A fetus requires a womb to live in for 9 months so he/she can actually grow functioning organs."Bucketdeth said:But then, what does it matter how much it has grown? If you kill it, it's dead - it won't experience more pain when it's grown than when it's a fetus. So why not allow killing babies that are already born?""Gunner said:Thata another thing entirely, the fetus itself is not a functioning human, like i said the fact that a futus will grow into a human is the reason i am pro-life but saying a fetus is a human and shouldn't be killed for that reason alone is just being narrow minded.""Austin said:I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t.""Arkthemaniac said:Way ahead of yourself arnt you?"It's not murder, and it's not a child.Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her."
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?"
"People who say stuff like "oh, it's not even human until X days" are so incredibly in denial. Hmm... when does the first nerve cell develop? Oh yea, quite early, the nerve cell is among the first cells to form."Since when is the nerve cell the deciding factor of what is human? Feeling pain isn't exclusive to humanity. Nerves alone make you livestock at best.
"This is a good point as well. Every time a man ejaculates, he unloads multiple million sperm cells, and a man doesn't stop making sperm until he's very old (or dies he ever stop? I dunno, I'm not that into biology).A man produces fertile sperm until they die. A woman is born with all the eggs she is ever going to produce, so the egg basically ages with her. The risk of Down Syndrome increase with age, so after 40, there is a big risk.I've always kinda found it weird that a guy feels he has as much of a role as the female because of this. A guy can concieve children for a long time. A girl can't, so what she does with her stuff is more personal and meaningful to her than to him."
"Icemael said:What I'm trying to say is if we're allowed to kill fetuses, why aren't we allowed to kill born humans?But then, what does it matter how much it has grown? If you kill it, it's dead - it won't experience more pain when it's grown than when it's a fetus. So why not allow killing babies that are already born?"If pain is the only factor than the two are not the same, babies who are already born have functioning organs and can sustain his/her life on his/her own. A fetus requires a womb to live in for 9 months so he/she can actually grow functioning organs."
Seeing as your friend is only a 17 year old kid still, there is really no way that it would work out well. Even if he doesn't want it to happen, really an abortion is the best thing that can happen for someone that age. I assume the girl is around that age too, and its smart of her to make that decision. Having a child at their age really would just fuck up a lot of things.
"It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."
You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values.
"jakob187 said:You don't have a clue. I'm assuming you are talking about "a soul" from a theological perspective. Despite what you have to say, I can tell you right now - you are wrong. That is a guarantee."It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values."
"Seeing as your friend is only a 17 year old kid still, there is really no way that it would work out well. Even if he doesn't want it to happen, really an abortion is the best thing that can happen for someone that age. I assume the girl is around that age too, and its smart of her to make that decision. Having a child at their age really would just fuck up a lot of things.Yeah. she is older though. she is 18
"
This all probably depends on the people involved.
"Bellum said:"jakob187 said:You don't have a clue. I'm assuming you are talking about "a soul" from a theological perspective. Despite what you have to say, I can tell you right now - you are wrong. That is a guarantee.""It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values."
Wrong in that you have a soul or in that your emotions are objective?
"jakob187 said:Wrong as in "I don't think you have a fucking idea of how painful something like that really is to deal with, despite what your moral, emotional, or objective standpoint is"."Bellum said:Wrong in that you have a soul or in that your emotions are objective?""jakob187 said:You don't have a clue. I'm assuming you are talking about "a soul" from a theological perspective. Despite what you have to say, I can tell you right now - you are wrong. That is a guarantee.""It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values."
Anyway, debating about this is just stupid. If you say "all lives are equal" you're a hypocrite, since you eat living being that are killed just for you to survive. If you say "a fetus isn't a human" you essentially say that the less developed a human is, the less it's worth - this means the lives of kids aren't worth as much as those of adults. In the end people will just do what they think benefits them the most - if they think aborting will benefit them they'll do it, if they think it doesn't they won't.
"Claude said:"I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have had 5 abortions/DNCs. "Doctor's orders." The woman has the decision that has to be made, because it's her body and only my sperm.":O 5 Abortions??? What the hell was wrong with the kids? Were they so sick that the doctor had to order the aborts or was it ur wife's decision?"
My wife has had Lupus for 26 years. All had no chance at life beyond the womb, "because of medication" and it made us sad. That was many years ago though, we tried and all failed. No kids for us and my wife's health is too bad to adopt now.
I don't particularly care how painful it might be for you personally, but of course I don't have a clue. That is beside the point. How it effects you doesn't necessarily equate to how it effects someone else. That it "makes you feel bad" isn't a good enough argument in this case, because we aren't talking about you. We're talking about everyone.
"jakob187 said:I'm sorry, but this kind of stuff annoys me. You know what he means when he says "soul." Yes, the way you phrase it is the same thing, just from a different belief. All this does is derail things from the topic at hand. And I'm probably going to regret pointing this out and contributing to it."It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."
You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values."
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