Well, life may begin at conception, but sperm inside an egg can't be called a human.
I don't know what the scientific cutoff for this is, but I consider you to be a human and capable for being a victim of murder once you leave the womb.
If people can keep on topic and debate without resorting to being dicks then it can work out and the topic stays open. So lets be productive and positive here and maintain some respect for each other so I don't have to moderate folks.
I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her.
"
Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."
Way ahead of yourself arnt you?
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?
The father should have a say, but it is ultimately the woman's decision.
Austin said:
Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."
It depends on how you define life. After 11 weeks the baby develops a heart and other human characteristics. It could be debated that conception is not the point of life, but the point of implantation is.
"Well, life may begin at conception, but sperm inside an egg can't be called a human.
I don't know what the scientific cutoff for this is, but I consider you to be a human and capable for being a victim of murder once you leave the womb.
"
A fetus can feel pain also. I imagine a doctor pulling me out of my mother's womb with a pair of tongs hurts really really bad!
I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her.
"
Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."
Way ahead of yourself arnt you?
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?"
I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t.
before this gets locked/turns ugly, i would like to say that i am pro-life, but i think saying that people should get abortions because a fetus is a baby and it would be murder is just simple minded. The fact that that fetus will later become a life and a productive member of society should be enough of a reason to not get an abortion. now someone will bring rape into the equation and all i can say is that is the only justifiable reason to get one.
"Well, life may begin at conception, but sperm inside an egg can't be called a human.
I don't know what the scientific cutoff for this is, but I consider you to be a human and capable for being a victim of murder once you leave the womb.
"
A fetus can feel pain also. I imagine a doctor pulling me out of my mother's womb with a pair of tongs hurts really really bad!"
What's worse? A fetus, which has made no contribution to the world and may not even have an emotional attachment to anyone, being killed or having that fetus grow up in a situation where it isn't loved or cared for properly?
Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want the abortion. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to guinely wanted to take care of his future kid.
"before this gets locked/turns ugly, i would like to say that i am pro-life, but i think saying that people should get abortions because a fetus is a baby and it would be murder is just simple minded. The fact that that fetus will later become a life and a productive member of society should be enough of a reason to not get an abortion. now someone will bring rape into the equation and all i can say is that is the only justifiable reason to get one."
"Well, life may begin at conception, but sperm inside an egg can't be called a human.
I don't know what the scientific cutoff for this is, but I consider you to be a human and capable for being a victim of murder once you leave the womb.
"
A fetus can feel pain also. I imagine a doctor pulling me out of my mother's womb with a pair of tongs hurts really really bad!"
I think abortion is somewhat misconstrued. They're just cutting the cord. It's not like they're mixing up their insides with a metal rod . . . anymore. Even if a fetus can feel pain, it doesn't mean it does in an abortion.
Bucketdeth said:
I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."
If this were common opinion, every man above the age of 15 with hands and access to pictures of women would be considered commiters of genocide.
"Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want it. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to sanguinely wanted to take care of his future kid."
I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her.
"
Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."
Way ahead of yourself arnt you?
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?"
I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."
Thats a different thing entirely, the fetus itself is not a functioning human, like i said the fact that a futus will grow into a human is the reason i am pro-life but saying a fetus is a human and shouldn't be killed for that reason alone is just being narrow minded.
I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."
If this were common opinion, every man above the age of 15 with hands and access to pictures of women would be considered commiters of genocide.
"
I don't meen the sperm alone, I meen once the sperm has fertilized the egg and it has started grow into the shape of a human being, but I understand where your CUMING from.
"Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want it. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to sanguinely wanted to take care of his future kid."
I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have had 5 abortions/DNCs. "Doctor's orders." The woman has the decision that has to be made, because it's her body and only my sperm.
"Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want it. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to sanguinely wanted to take care of his future kid."
How old is he?"
17"
In that case, abortion is obviously the best option. How can a kid bring another kid into the world? Just consider the amount of factors involved and there's no way that he could be a good father at that age.
"Guys, I don't mean to come off as an ass, but the reason I made this topic was because earlier today a dude told me a girl he got pregnant wants an abortion and he doesn't want it. I was outraged that this girl can be so damn selfish. And the dude I was talking to sanguinely wanted to take care of his future kid."
Hey, it works both ways. Is he not selfish for making her go through what is basically shoving a turkey through her area even though she doesn't want to, just so he can be a father?
In the end, just blame the doctors who came up with the idea of abortion, blame contraceptive producers for making defective products, and blame your really hot English teacher from junior high for giving you sexual thoughts to start with.
I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her.
"
Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."
Way ahead of yourself arnt you?
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?"
I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."
Thata another thing entirely, the fetus itself is not a functioning human, like i said the fact that a futus will grow into a human is the reason i am pro-life but saying a fetus is a human and shouldn't be killed for that reason alone is just being narrow minded."
But then, what does it matter how much it has grown? If you kill it, it's dead - it won't experience more pain when it's grown than when it's a fetus. So why not allow killing babies that are already born?
I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."
If this were common opinion, every man above the age of 15 with hands and access to pictures of women would be considered commiters of genocide.
"
I don't meen the sperm alone, I meen once the sperm has fertilized the egg and it has started grow into the shape of a human being, but I understand where your CUMING from."
People who say stuff like "oh, it's not even human until X days" are so incredibly in denial. Hmm... when does the first nerve cell develop? Oh yea, quite early, the nerve cell is among the first cells to form.
"I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have had 5 abortions/DNCs. "Doctor's orders." The woman has the decision that has to be made, because it's her body and only my sperm."
:O 5 Abortions??? What the hell was wrong with the kids? Were they so sick that the doctor had to order the aborts or was it ur wife's decision?
I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her.
"
Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."
Failed biology, did you? Life starts with the cell. Not much of an argument, seeing as I shake off hundreds of thousands of cells every day, and even managed to contribute to the mass "murder" of entire organisms when I ate supper today. Spare us the moral absolutist bullshit, please.
"I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have had 5 abortions/DNCs. "Doctor's orders." The woman has the decision that has to be made, because it's her body and only my sperm."
This is a good point as well. Every time a man ejaculates, he unloads multiple million sperm cells, and a man doesn't stop making sperm until he's very old (or dies he ever stop? I dunno, I'm not that into biology).
I've always kinda found it weird that a guy feels he has as much of a role as the female because of this. A guy can concieve children for a long time. A girl can't, so what she does with her stuff is more personal and meaningful to her than to him.
I think the father should be able to say something about it, but ultimately, the woman will go through more, and therefore it is more up to her.
"
Oh, Goodie a debate! How is abortion not murder? How is a fetus not a child? Dude, life begins at conception."
Way ahead of yourself arnt you?
Do you remember being inside your mother stomach? Do you remember being born? a fetus has no recollection that it even exists, how can you say that something that doesnt even know that is exists is even a human being?"
I`m really not the one to debate on this topic, but how does that justify killing something that could have grown up into someone, what would you say to someone who was supposed to be aborted but for some reason didn`t."
Thata another thing entirely, the fetus itself is not a functioning human, like i said the fact that a futus will grow into a human is the reason i am pro-life but saying a fetus is a human and shouldn't be killed for that reason alone is just being narrow minded."
But then, what does it matter how much it has grown? If you kill it, it's dead - it won't experience more pain when it's grown than when it's a fetus. So why not allow killing babies that are already born?"
If pain is the only factor than the two are not the same, babies who are already born have functioning organs and can sustain his/her life on his/her own. A fetus requires a womb to live in for 9 months so he/she can actually grow functioning organs.
It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it.
"People who say stuff like "oh, it's not even human until X days" are so incredibly in denial. Hmm... when does the first nerve cell develop? Oh yea, quite early, the nerve cell is among the first cells to form."
Since when is the nerve cell the deciding factor of what is human? Feeling pain isn't exclusive to humanity. Nerves alone make you livestock at best.
And last I checked, killing livestock is a business you can make a huge profit in. Just like abortion.
I'm not a person that believes abortions are good or even okay, but it's not murder. If my girlfriend/wife ever decided to have an abortion of my child, I'd be severely disappointed. Just because it isn't murder doesn't make it good.
"This is a good point as well. Every time a man ejaculates, he unloads multiple million sperm cells, and a man doesn't stop making sperm until he's very old (or dies he ever stop? I dunno, I'm not that into biology).
I've always kinda found it weird that a guy feels he has as much of a role as the female because of this. A guy can concieve children for a long time. A girl can't, so what she does with her stuff is more personal and meaningful to her than to him.
"
A man produces fertile sperm until they die. A woman is born with all the eggs she is ever going to produce, so the egg basically ages with her. The risk of Down Syndrome increase with age, so after 40, there is a big risk.
But then, what does it matter how much it has grown? If you kill it, it's dead - it won't experience more pain when it's grown than when it's a fetus. So why not allow killing babies that are already born?"
If pain is the only factor than the two are not the same, babies who are already born have functioning organs and can sustain his/her life on his/her own. A fetus requires a womb to live in for 9 months so he/she can actually grow functioning organs."
What I'm trying to say is if we're allowed to kill fetuses, why aren't we allowed to kill born humans?
Seeing as your friend is only a 17 year old kid still, there is really no way that it would work out well. Even if he doesn't want it to happen, really an abortion is the best thing that can happen for someone that age. I assume the girl is around that age too, and its smart of her to make that decision. Having a child at their age really would just fuck up a lot of things.
"It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."
You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values.
"It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."
You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values."
You don't have a clue. I'm assuming you are talking about "a soul" from a theological perspective. Despite what you have to say, I can tell you right now - you are wrong. That is a guarantee.
"Seeing as your friend is only a 17 year old kid still, there is really no way that it would work out well. Even if he doesn't want it to happen, really an abortion is the best thing that can happen for someone that age. I assume the girl is around that age too, and its smart of her to make that decision. Having a child at their age really would just fuck up a lot of things. "
Mostly, I see this boil down to the women saying "It's my body, it's my choice." Which I'm fine with if: there's a health risk involved (more than the normal/standard risks), precautions where taken that didn't work (condom, birth control), rape.
I do not agree with it if she just doesn't want to get fat, or stretch marks, etc.
I the case of the original post, I would say if they were not taking the necessary precautions to avoid pregnacy, it should not be solely the woman's choice. That's just my opinion.
"It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."
You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values."
You don't have a clue. I'm assuming you are talking about "a soul" from a theological perspective. Despite what you have to say, I can tell you right now - you are wrong. That is a guarantee."
Wrong in that you have a soul or in that your emotions are objective?
"It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."
You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values."
You don't have a clue. I'm assuming you are talking about "a soul" from a theological perspective. Despite what you have to say, I can tell you right now - you are wrong. That is a guarantee."
Wrong in that you have a soul or in that your emotions are objective?"
Wrong as in "I don't think you have a fucking idea of how painful something like that really is to deal with, despite what your moral, emotional, or objective standpoint is".
Anyway, debating about this is just stupid. If you say "all lives are equal" you're a hypocrite, since you eat living being that are killed just for you to survive. If you say "a fetus isn't a human" you essentially say that the less developed a human is, the less it's worth - this means the lives of kids aren't worth as much as those of adults. In the end people will just do what they think benefits them the most - if they think aborting will benefit them they'll do it, if they think it doesn't they won't.
"I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have had 5 abortions/DNCs. "Doctor's orders." The woman has the decision that has to be made, because it's her body and only my sperm."
:O 5 Abortions??? What the hell was wrong with the kids? Were they so sick that the doctor had to order the aborts or was it ur wife's decision?"
My wife has had Lupus for 26 years. All had no chance at life beyond the womb, "because of medication" and it made us sad. That was many years ago though, we tried and all failed. No kids for us and my wife's health is too bad to adopt now.
I don't particularly care how painful it might be for you personally, but of course I don't have a clue. That is beside the point. How it effects you doesn't necessarily equate to how it effects someone else. That it "makes you feel bad" isn't a good enough argument in this case, because we aren't talking about you. We're talking about everyone.
"It doesn't matter if it's murder or not. It's still something that weighs on your soul pretty fucking heavy. That's a feeling worse than any stupid fucking debate about the principles and moral values of it."
You don't have a soul. I imagine the effects of abortion on the mind depend entirely on your values."
I'm sorry, but this kind of stuff annoys me. You know what he means when he says "soul." Yes, the way you phrase it is the same thing, just from a different belief. All this does is derail things from the topic at hand. And I'm probably going to regret pointing this out and contributing to it.
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