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#51 Posted by Dylabaloo (1549 posts) -
#52 Posted by cnlmullen (900 posts) -

@Harkat: I have to admit, that's pretty interesting track. I like James Blake (I've heard of him from when he collaborated with Bon Iver). One of my favorite musicians, Sufjan, does a lot of stuff with electronics... so I don't just blindly hate all electronic music by virtue of its instrumentation.

But that being said, I still prefer the sound of real instruments. I just think they're more expressive than beeps and boops.

#53 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@cnlmullen said:

But that being said, I still prefer the sound of real instruments. I just think they're more expressive than beeps and boops.

It all comes down to melody, which is the pure form of something expressive. Anything is a real instrument if it's used to create music. With a guitar, it's being filtered through an amp, and you're hitting strings. With electronic music, you're either hitting keys or playing a keyboard. There's literally no difference except the form of the instrument.
#54 Edited by alienjones (20 posts) -

@whistlebottom: Yes, Doctor P is an 'extreme' example. Just to show you the different sides.

@morningthief: I'd agree with this. Good choice of Skream track too (maybe "Midnight Request Line" was too obvious); I guess that would now be a classic dubstep album? Certainly one that got me interested in the genre.

@Sweep: Hey, that Matta track isn't too bad. I'd say it's tough to find that 'middleground' dubstep, which is still has the big wobble drops (ie. stupid bass), but is actually well thought out and produced/arranged decently. I'll refrain from posting more YT links though.

.@Napalm said:

There's literally no difference except the form of the instrument.

Agreedo.

@Harkat said:

To be fair, UKF Dubstep, which is pretty much the deciding force of what dubstep gets popular, has stopped promoting "wobble-madness" dubstep, and is instead promoting more melodic, unoffensive electro dubstep. The dubstep scene seems to have realized the super-aggro stuff got a bit excessive, but their solution was not to go back to the chilled style, but to make it into pop music instead. Just look at Rusko's newer songs. Straight up pop music. I'm not sure wether this is better or not.

Yeah, I'd noticed this too actually (although admittedly I don't follow the genre too closely these days, and especially not the more mainstream side). I guess I'm alright with going poppier (except I don't want to listen to it either), it cuts down the offensive factor; then again, if we take the example of "Lick the Lizard", the flip side to "Everyday" ('poppier'), it's an absolutely shit track with the kind of drop/sounds I'm talking about when I say 'obnoxious'. Unfortunately, I'd imagine it still sells to a degree (more than the more legit forms of the genre anyway)... and you still get people thinking this is a "sick drop mate!". Oh, and James Blake stuff is a nice choice too - @cnlmullen: Check out "Limit To Your Love".

But whatever. I'm gunna crawl back under my rock and listen to goa trance.

#55 Posted by xdaknightx69 (442 posts) -

the dudes good

#56 Edited by cnlmullen (900 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@cnlmullen said:

But that being said, I still prefer the sound of real instruments. I just think they're more expressive than beeps and boops.

It all comes down to melody, which is the pure form of something expressive. Anything is a real instrument if it's used to create music. With a guitar, it's being filtered through an amp, and you're hitting strings. With electronic music, you're either hitting keys or playing a keyboard. There's literally no difference except the form of the instrument.

All I'm saying is this

is a little different than a 12 year old playing an MP3 file he made on his computer with Fruity Loops.

But, frankly, If you don't have some inherent understanding of how people can be expressive playing instruments, there is no way I can explain it to you.

#57 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@cnlmullen said:

@Napalm said:

@cnlmullen said:

But that being said, I still prefer the sound of real instruments. I just think they're more expressive than beeps and boops.

It all comes down to melody, which is the pure form of something expressive. Anything is a real instrument if it's used to create music. With a guitar, it's being filtered through an amp, and you're hitting strings. With electronic music, you're either hitting keys or playing a keyboard. There's literally no difference except the form of the instrument.

All I'm saying is this

is a little different than a 12 year old playing an MP3 file he made on his computer with Fruity Loops.

But, frankly, If you don't have some inherent understanding of how people can be expressive playing instruments, there is no way I can explain it to you.

Much like classical music, famous and not-so-famous works by Van Gogh and Da Vinci have endured the test of time representing something in a truly expressive medium. Just because a two-year old is using coloring pencils and a cheap sketchbook, you're going to say his/her expressive fits of doodling and randomness is any less expressive or important to his/her artistic/emotional development? Most creative people grew up as creative kids, starting with coloring pencils, crayons, and random doodles of color-y splashes, and eventually grew up to use different mediums and instruments. They all have to start out somewhere.
 
By your logic, nobody young should touch a musical or artistic instrument. Maybe I can help you down off of your horse so you can see things from a less condescending perspective. Good day.
#58 Edited by cnlmullen (900 posts) -

@Napalm: I thought we were talking about the expressiveness of real instruments vs. beeps and boops? The musicians above aren't playing a perfect mathematically accurate version of the work; they are providing a nuanced interpretation of it, through which their own character and personality are evident. Even the specific instruments themselves (e.g. the woman is playing a violin that's over 300 years old, from the end of the renaissance) add a distinct color to the piece. Not all violins sound the same.

I like beeps and boops sometimes too. I'm not saying beeps and boops can't be expressive, in their own way. I just prefer the sound of instruments. It's just a preference.

#59 Posted by alienjones (20 posts) -

@cnlmullen said:

I like beeps and boops sometimes too. I'm not saying beeps and boops can't be expressive, in their own way. I just prefer the sound of instruments. It's just a preference.

This too, it's a bit of a circular argument really. Why don't we all just chill out?

#60 Posted by thomasnash (404 posts) -

@MikkaQ:I would counter thecomment about boring beats with something like this I guess:

I'd take a bit of syncopation over the four to the floor stuff coming out of europe any day but whatever. Another key point I guess is that dubstep is a bass focused genre, but you don't have to slap a bunch of LFO on it to get great bass, or rather, it is something that came to be used a lot but has got really out of hand. Comparing some of the newer stuff with something like this:

it's night and day really. I always wonder why more dubstep artists don't use Reese bass, although you get quite a lot of sawtooth in more modern Dungeon style stuff like Kryptic Minds and stuff which I like. I like a bassline that's all growling menace, rather than up front aggro. That's not to say that there's some really heavy tearout stuff that I like as well. The great thing about the dubstep scene when I first got into it was there was space for all kinds of stuff from 2-steppy dark garage, spacious dread bass, tearout wobble stuff, breakstep (which you don't get a lot of nowadays), a space for instrumental grime, it was great to hear all that stuff.

It wasn't long after that I guess that it started getting a bit narrower, the tearout, "bro" stuff got really picked up in the mainstream, here and in the states, but the rest of it wasn't getting much attention, and so dubstep nights started going more towards that sound to pull in more people. At the same time a lot of the innovators and pioneers started moving towards different genres, slowing the tempo down to 130bpm and drawing in influences from house, techno, and UK Funky, so that those other styles started getting less represented. 3 Years ago I might have said tearout would never get a foothold because Kode 9 would release an album to blow it out of the water - he did, but it was a Funky house record. Anyway, I don't know why I felt like giving that potted history - it bothers me sometimes that people think it's all one thing, on both sides of the argument. Like the dude saying good dubstep is hard to find. I don't believe that for a second. As long as you're open to it in lots of permutations, and open to some of it's related UK bass genres, there's a huge variety of great tunes from Joker to Distance to whoever.

I'll finish by posting a random selection of tunes I'm digging on recently:

#61 Posted by Intro (1191 posts) -

I like dubstep.

Some people don't I get it. Never understood being an ass to others about their opinion on music, but what are ya gonna do.

#62 Posted by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -

Not really my thing.

#63 Posted by ElCapitan (393 posts) -

The really aggressive stuff doesn't jive with me, but if it doesn't at least have at a drop I find I get bored. Is it possible to be addicted to wobble bass?

#64 Edited by CookieMonster (2408 posts) -

Archangel by Burial is about how far my dubstep taste goes. I like Rustie a bit, but he just seems like a slightly dubstep-y Daft Punk. Brostep can fuck off though. Most clubs were bad enough until they decided to introduce that shit.

#65 Posted by 71Ranchero (2580 posts) -

The only times I have ever heard Dubstep or even heard people talking about it in any way whatsoever has been on this website. Apparently I am not trendy enough for Dubstep.

(also it just sounds like techno)

#66 Posted by Akeldama (4216 posts) -

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

#67 Edited by NickL (2246 posts) -

Well I guess I did get one thing from reading this thread.

Even dubstep has its own elitists!

#68 Posted by Jost1 (2077 posts) -

@LiquidSwords said:

Dubstep is the new Crab Core

God damn it, Crab Core man. The worst genre of anything ever.