#1 Posted by Alekss (327 posts) -

I don't know if there was already a thread about this article Link but it makes me wonder how much truth there is to the US spying on it's people and allies. There has been alot of acusations aimed at US lately, especially with the entire Snowden debacle.
Some of this may be just consiparcy theory, but I think with all the international scandals happening right now some of it must be true.

In this particular case a german newspaper acused US of spying on EU and given how strong the EU response was against US makes me believe that they must have known someting more then even the newspaper says. No one would demand imediate explanations and threaten with delaying some treaty just because of a newspaper said something unless there is more to this.

I'm curios how this will end up.

#2 Edited by leebmx (2247 posts) -

I don't really know how anyone can doubt it. The US and the UK and pretty much everyone else will spy on everyone they get the chance to. Its so hypocritical when you hear the US administration bang on about Chinese Hackers when they are doing exactly the same thing, not only to the Chinese but to their supposed allies as well.

It is exactly the same as when the U2 spy plane was shot down over Russia in the 50's and Eisenhower denied that the US ever spied on anyone. When the evidence was pointed out he just changed to 'oh, well you all do it.' Its been going on since people could cut eye holes in newspapers, this is nothing new.

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#3 Posted by mellotronrules (1223 posts) -

everyone spies on everyone. people say one thing and then do another. gotta look out for #1. or, as it's always been known- diplomacy.

#4 Posted by dudeglove (8015 posts) -

Spying on other nations both friend and foe has ALWAYS been a thing. ECHELON has been going for years thanks to GCHQ, the Russians have FAPSI, the friggin' Germans had the Stasi. You must have your head under a goddamn rock if you think this form of intelligence gathering is somehow a new phenomenon. The shitter (among others) is nowadays these Orwellian nightmares have a lot more access, and in some cases it's been legally granted to them.

But if you want to blame anyone, build a time machine and take it back to 1970 and punch White House aide Tom Charles Huston in the fucking mouth.

#5 Edited by jimmy_p (278 posts) -

I bet it involves someone offering to buy a beer for their boss after yet another public hearing

#6 Posted by Tarsier (1069 posts) -

@leebmx said:

I don't really know how anyone can doubt it. The US and the UK and pretty much everyone else will spy on everyone they get the chance to. Its so hypocritical when you hear the US administration bang on about Chinese Hackers when they are doing exactly the same thing, not only to the Chinese but to their supposed allies as well.

It is exactly the same as when the U2 spy plane was shot down over Russia in the 50's and Eisenhower denied that the US ever spied on anyone. When the evidence was pointed out he just changed to 'oh, well you all do it.' Its been going on since people could cut eye holes in newspapers, this is nothing new.

people can deny it easily because theyre afraid of what they need to accept if it is true. if you accept this, then there is a lot that comes with it, and the world is not what you thought it was.

fear creates denial, denial creates ignorance, ignorance creates inaction, inaction allows tyranny. this is the way it happens.

#7 Posted by Jimbo (9869 posts) -

@tarsier said:

@leebmx said:

I don't really know how anyone can doubt it. The US and the UK and pretty much everyone else will spy on everyone they get the chance to. Its so hypocritical when you hear the US administration bang on about Chinese Hackers when they are doing exactly the same thing, not only to the Chinese but to their supposed allies as well.

It is exactly the same as when the U2 spy plane was shot down over Russia in the 50's and Eisenhower denied that the US ever spied on anyone. When the evidence was pointed out he just changed to 'oh, well you all do it.' Its been going on since people could cut eye holes in newspapers, this is nothing new.

people can deny it easily because theyre afraid of what they need to accept if it is true. if you accept this, then there is a lot that comes with it, and the world is not what you thought it was.

fear creates denial, denial creates ignorance, ignorance creates inaction, inaction allows tyranny. this is the way it happens.

Thanks Yoda.

#8 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

everyone spies on everyone.

Exactly. Hell, Lunarian spies have been mucking about on your planet for quite a while.

#9 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1621 posts) -

(The cold war never ended. It just moved to the internet.)

#10 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

The problem with "Spying" on everyone, is:

1. thats a lot of data to ether keep, or sort through.

2. thats a lot of time, money and other resources the government dosent have they could be spending to search a spfic person.

3. No one in the government talks to each other. So even if the CIA has knowledge that x person is in the country, and the FBI has knowledge that Y person is going to meet with X and the Local cops have knowledge that Y person knows how to build a bomb. Nothing will happen, because no one talks to each other. This is one of the reasons why we spend so much money every year in the government, I can not imagein how many or the same technology are being built sepratly in different parts of the government.

#11 Posted by TruthTellah (9309 posts) -

They're just angry that any of the major world players got found out regarding their spying programs, because it makes people start asking questions and realize: "Wait a second... is my government doing this, too?"

Many of these EU countries are certainly doing spying on one another and other countries, and if people think the international spying efforts of the Cold War just stopped because of the waning of communism, they're most likely quite mistaken. Why would countries cede such knowledge and power? Why would countries not take advantage of new technology and fields of influence? The thing that keeps it all up is the fact that most countries are in it, as well, and so there is an ever-growing arms race of spying and cyber warfare. The most notable competitors are China vs the US, but many countries are certainly involved, both with other countries and with their own people. Newer technology is but a new battlefield for continued power struggles.

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#12 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1621 posts) -

I think it would be funny if the Unites States came forward with all the times they have caught the EU doing the same thing to the US.

#13 Edited by Wuddel (2098 posts) -

Well, if "Der Spiegel" is doing the investigation it's probably legit. From the vibe I get from the local media we are collectively shurg our shoulders because one has to be pretty naive If he does not assume that everybody spies on everybody. Assume everyone is an asshole at all times. That being said its worrying when the US is doing it since they probably have more ressources than many european countries.

The controversy is a different one. Merkel probably knew of the spying and also benefited from the intel. Also the constitution of Germany is quite modern and the chancellor or the administration has not as many powers as e.g. an US-president. The parliament has to be included in more decisions, the public has to be informed about more stuff etc.

#14 Posted by dudeglove (8015 posts) -

@wuddel said:

Well, if "Der Spiegel" is doing the investigation it's probably legit.

Der Spiegel was also involved with the Assange Wikileaks cables along with the Guardian, New York Times, El Pais, and Le Monde, so this isn't their first rodeo.

#15 Posted by Jimbo (9869 posts) -

I think it would be funny if the Unites States came forward with all the times they have caught the EU doing the same thing to the US.

The US has so many leaks that nobody really needs to spy on them.

#16 Posted by dudeglove (8015 posts) -
#17 Posted by FunkasaurasRex (847 posts) -

I'm loving the ambivalent responses. Keep it up guys.

#18 Posted by rachelepithet (1391 posts) -

We have to vote for Ron Paul cuz he wasn't flying the planes that hit the WTC like that reptile Obama. Government spying is God's punishment for legalizing gay marriage and abortion for rape victims those sluts. Come with me into this bathroom so I can tell you about The Lions Club, it's okay, I scanned for taps!

#19 Edited by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

Newsflash: International espionage is still a thing. Not really sure why people seem so surprised about this, especially with the advent of the digital age and the internet.

Side note: I always hate the stigma that is involved with conspiracy theories, I feel like it discourages critical thinking and logical skepticism in favor of media acceptance. Just because it's a conspiracy theory doesn't mean it's far fetched.