"Film Critics"

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Lashe

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#1  Edited By Lashe

Seriously, why the hate? I honestly don't understand. 


In fact, another question I'd like know the answer to still is what the general public consider a critic to be with regards to cinema. Are we talking about the Eisensteins, Sarris', Bazins and Gopalans of the world, or just someone who writes for any old publication because I would like to point out that there is a massive difference.
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Jesus

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#2  Edited By Jesus

So wait. Are you asking why people hate film critics?

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EpicSteve

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#3  Edited By EpicSteve

Uh, film critics are useless. I think that's what you're asking.

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Milkman

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#4  Edited By Milkman

Huh?

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Ineedaname

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#5  Edited By Ineedaname

They're the same as those that review games, exactly the same except one's film and one's game, you don't have to follow their review, it's their opinion there will be always something you'll disagree with get over it.

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Lashe

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#6  Edited By Lashe

"why the hate?" was in the first sentence, of course that's what I'm asking =P


And to those who think they're useless -- can you enlighten me as to why?
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Milkman

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#7  Edited By Milkman

Everyone seems to be hating on film critics because they hated on Transformers or something. I don't know. I think the answer to the question "Why the hate?" is because people are idiots.

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inkeiren

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#8  Edited By inkeiren

Film critics are useful. Famous critics tend to be intelligent individuals that give insight to the message of the movie, and are great for steering you clear of trashy movies, and finding out about great ones. If you hate film critics, it's only logical to hate video game critics too.

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EpicSteve

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#9  Edited By EpicSteve
@Lashe said:
" "why the hate?" was in the first sentence, of course that's what I'm asking =P

And to those who think they're useless -- can you enlighten me as to why?
"
Because most film critics are out of touch with what makes a great movie, and instead focus on what makes a film arty. I don't know anyone who seeks out reviews before going to the movies. A theater is a social experience, I'm not gonna stop my buddies and say "Hey, this didn't do so well on RottonTomatoes!". Technically I'm not going to a theater to see a great movie, I'm there to hangout first and hope the movie is good at the same time. I'm pretty good at being able to tell if a movie is for me or not, and if I'm ever wrong I'm only out 7 bucks. With games you're out $60. I'm sure some people appreciate them, but those people are few and far between. However, someone could probably make a similar argument to me about gaming criticism, but you must prepare yourself for a battle of words. Some people may enjoy the service those people offer, it's just not for me.
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mordukai

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#10  Edited By mordukai
@EpicSteve said:
" @Lashe said:
" "why the hate?" was in the first sentence, of course that's what I'm asking =P

And to those who think they're useless -- can you enlighten me as to why?
"
Because most film critics are out of touch with what makes a great movie, and instead focus on what makes a film arty. I don't know anyone who seeks out reviews before going to the movies. A theater is a social experience, I'm not gonna stop my buddies and say "Hey, this didn't do so well on RottonTomatoes!". Technically I'm not going to a theater to see a great movie, I'm there to hangout first and hope the movie is good at the same time. I'm pretty good at being able to tell if a movie is for me or not, and if I'm ever wrong I'm only out 7 bucks. With games you're out $60. I'm sure som people appreciate them, but those people are few and far between. However, someone could probably make a similar argument to me about gaming criticism. "
Mark Kermode is very much in touch with what makes a great movie. If you haven't heard of him then hop over to BBC- Radio 5 Live. That guy is a legend!
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krazychris

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#11  Edited By krazychris
@inkeiren said:
" Film critics are useful. Famous critics tend to be intelligent individuals that give insight to the message of the movie, and are great for steering you clear of trashy movies, and finding out about great ones. If you hate film critics, it's only logical to hate video game critics too. "
Personally I don't think so. Games are different from movies, it's all down to inrpertation. If the game is very buggy or very glitchy then I'd like to know this and thats somthing that a review will give me insight to whereas I doubt the summer blockbusters I might go to watch will be badly light or hard to hear (this is the closest parallel to bugs or glitches in a videogame) the enjoyment of movies more down to personal tastes than games are so the only way I'd really trust a movie reviewer was if I followed him so I know what his tastes are compared to mine. Also I don't really know how you can give much of a review about a movie without either being too vauge or spoiling the story whereas with videogames you can explain the combat system and what the user can expect from it without spoiling the game for them.
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Milkman

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#12  Edited By Milkman
@EpicSteve said:
" @Lashe said:
" "why the hate?" was in the first sentence, of course that's what I'm asking =P

And to those who think they're useless -- can you enlighten me as to why?
"
Because most film critics are out of touch with what makes a great movie, and instead focus on what makes a film arty. I don't know anyone who seeks out reviews before going to the movies. A theater is a social experience, I'm not gonna stop my buddies and say "Hey, this didn't do so well on RottonTomatoes!". Technically I'm not going to a theater to see a great movie, I'm there to hangout first and hope the movie is good at the same time. I'm pretty good at being able to tell if a movie is for me or not, and if I'm ever wrong I'm only out 7 bucks. With games you're out $60. I'm sure som people appreciate them, but those people are few and far between. However, someone could probably make a similar argument to me about gaming criticism. "
Just because films are just a social experience to you doesn't mean that film critics are "useless" or that they are out of touch. I tend to agree that movies are a very social experience most of the time but that doesn't mean I don't want to see a good movie. Although I went to see Terminator: Salvation with my friends as a social experience, I didn't have much fun because the movie was fucking ass. And that's the same reason why me and my friends are not going anywhere near Transformers. Just because I'm with my friends doesn't mean that I can't tell a good movie from a bad movie.

Also, just because movies are social experiences to us doesn't mean they can't mean something else to someone else. A lot of people see movies as art, not as social hangouts so it's unfair to say just because you don't care that no one should care.
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Lashe

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#13  Edited By Lashe
@EpicSteve: You are aware that Art Cinema is just one school of study? That's a very limited view indeed. As for them being out of touch with what makes a good movie, that seems a little ridiculous, no? That's completely based on your opinion. 

Hollywood is full of contrived formulae which are pretty much exactly like the 'Cover based third person shooters' of games right now in the games industry -- when you grow up with and/or appreciate an art form, the mainstream stuff that might entertain masses (Terminator: Salvation, Wanted: Weapons of Fate, I'm looking at you) will lose its shine for you and you look to something of a higher standard. 

Of course, sometimes it's better to remain ignorant to it and you'll stay entertained but I would say you do miss out on the cream of the crop most of the time -- you don't get casual gamers being engrossed in the likes of Braid, Psychonauts or Portal which to those who take games seriously, is a crying shame. 
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EpicSteve

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#14  Edited By EpicSteve
@Milkman said:
" @EpicSteve said:
" @Lashe said:
" "why the hate?" was in the first sentence, of course that's what I'm asking =P

And to those who think they're useless -- can you enlighten me as to why?
"
Because most film critics are out of touch with what makes a great movie, and instead focus on what makes a film arty. I don't know anyone who seeks out reviews before going to the movies. A theater is a social experience, I'm not gonna stop my buddies and say "Hey, this didn't do so well on RottonTomatoes!". Technically I'm not going to a theater to see a great movie, I'm there to hangout first and hope the movie is good at the same time. I'm pretty good at being able to tell if a movie is for me or not, and if I'm ever wrong I'm only out 7 bucks. With games you're out $60. I'm sure som people appreciate them, but those people are few and far between. However, someone could probably make a similar argument to me about gaming criticism. "
Just because films are just a social experience to you doesn't mean that film critics are "useless" or that they are out of touch. I tend to agree that movies are a very social experience most of the time but that doesn't mean I don't want to see a good movie. Although I went to see Terminator: Salvation with my friends as a social experience, I didn't have much fun because the movie was fucking ass. And that's the same reason why me and my friends are not going anywhere near Transformers. Just because I'm with my friends doesn't mean that I can't tell a good movie from a bad movie. Also, just because movies are social experiences to us doesn't mean they can't mean something else to someone else. A lot of people see movies as art, not as social hangouts so it's unfair to say just because you don't care that no one should care. "
Well I meant they're useless to me, and I don't think many people really care. Also, I can assume you didn't need a critic to tell you Terminator was going to be horrible movie. I'll add by saying that Transformers is an awful movie by all means. Of course film is art, but critics tend to desire something from movies that merely don't/shouldn't exist in certain titles. Even if movie critics were desirable among the masses, it still doesn't change the fact that people aren't losing out as much if they see a bad movie.
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HandsomeDead

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#15  Edited By HandsomeDead

The point of critics is to find someone who shares a taste similar to you own then use their opinion to see if you'll like the film or not. Obviously there are some who are utterly clueless but if you take someone like Mark Kermode or Roger Ebert who have a storied history, an obvious love for the medium and strong opinion, you know what you're going to get from them is, at worst, an informed arguement for or against the film. That being said, at the end of the day, some will think a film you love is terrible and vice versa.

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bagleyjw

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#16  Edited By bagleyjw
@krazychris said:
" @inkeiren said:
" Film critics are useful. Famous critics tend to be intelligent individuals that give insight to the message of the movie, and are great for steering you clear of trashy movies, and finding out about great ones. If you hate film critics, it's only logical to hate video game critics too. "
Personally I don't think so. Games are different from movies, it's all down to inrpertation. If the game is very buggy or very glitchy then I'd like to know this and thats somthing that a review will give me insight to whereas I doubt the summer blockbusters I might go to watch will be badly light or hard to hear (this is the closest parallel to bugs or glitches in a videogame) the enjoyment of movies more down to personal tastes than games are so the only way I'd really trust a movie reviewer was if I followed him so I know what his tastes are compared to mine. Also I don't really know how you can give much of a review about a movie without either being too vauge or spoiling the story whereas with videogames you can explain the combat system and what the user can expect from it without spoiling the game for them. "
See Wolverine, the CG in that movie is more broken than most bugs in a video game. I also believe that they are just as legit as video game reviews, taste definately comes in to play with video games (someone who oddly loves dynasty warriors would review the game higher than everyone else) but the one thing that separates the 2 mediums is control over the reviewer. Most sites wouldnt put a final fantasy hater on a video game, where film critics seem to review everything. The biggest example of this is Rotten Tomatoes, where negative reviewers will state their loathe for an actor/director/franchise. First negative review I saw for Dark Knight on RT was someone who hated Batman and Christopher Nolan. Also look at horror movies, apparently no critic likes them.
In closing, you have to pay more attention to text in movie reviews, and dive deeper into a reviewers trend to truly trust the review, but isnt that what video game reviewers hope for too?
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Sprizmo

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#17  Edited By Sprizmo

Also, when you scan through 60 different reviews on a site like Rotten Tomatoes, you can really get a general idea of what to expect from a film. These people are making recommendations to people who love film. There may be a tool or douche bag with petty biases and weak reasoning, but they are easy to pick out and dismiss. Those who make articulate, intelligent observations are helpful in determining the substance, relevance, and vision that makes a great film rather than a mediocre or, all too often, terrible movie.

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Black_Rose

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#18  Edited By Black_Rose

I like Ebert because I agree with him most of the time...except when it comes to Bond films -_-'. I don't really care about the others though.

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Sprizmo

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#19  Edited By Sprizmo
@Black_Rose: Ebert is slipping lately though. He didn't like the new Star Trek when just about everybody else did, then he turned around and gave Angels & Demons a thumbs up. What???
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#20  Edited By EvilTwin

In my opinion, movie critics are more influential to awards shows than they are consumers because most of them are more tuned in to the artistic nature of film than the entertainment aspect.  Basically, what constitutes a "good" game and a "good" movie are often totally different. 

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Black_Rose

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#21  Edited By Black_Rose
@Sprizmo said: I didn't like Star Trek either, I haven't seen A&D though. And this is not the first time he goes against popular opinion, I remember he gave a bad review to Die Hard, which I completely agree on.

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HandsomeDead

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#22  Edited By HandsomeDead
@Black_Rose said:
" @Sprizmo said: I didn't like Star Trek either, I haven't seen A&D though. And this is not the first time he goes against popular opinion, I remember he gave a bad review to Die Hard, which I completely agree on. "
Why don't you like Die Hard?
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Black_Rose

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#23  Edited By Black_Rose
@HandsomeDead said:
" Why don't you like Die Hard? "
I don't think it's terrible or anything, it's just ok but not the greatest action film of all time.
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Sprizmo

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#24  Edited By Sprizmo
@Black_Rose: Whats not to like about Star Trek? It was slick, clever, high energy sci - fi fun. It wasn't heavy handed on substance, which is a trait better suited for the old stuff anyways. We hardly ever get good space operas they come around once in a great while.
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#25  Edited By Wolverine
@Lashe: I find film critics useless because there is very little investment in watching a movie. Admission to a movie costs $10 and even if the movie sucked it gave my friends and I something to do for two hours so I usually just go by the commercials.
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#26  Edited By Surllio

To answer the TCs question. 

Because people hate anything that doesn't agree with their personal opinion.  Hell, people hate it when it does agree, but doesn't give it a perfect score/rating.  The "hate" is mostly because they have nothing else to lash out against, and want to feel justified for liking something. 

There is also the denial idea.  Where one lashes out against someone who doesn't agree with what they do, even if they understand the points.  I've seen people who love a movie or game, hate the critics who rate it as it is, but seem to butcher the movie themselves when given the chance.

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Black_Rose

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#27  Edited By Black_Rose
@Sprizmo said: It's fap material for fans, i'm not one, I hated it as much as I hated the series and the first movies.