#101 Posted by mosespippy (4113 posts) -

I thought this race was really boring once we reached the later 1/3rd of the race. Positions 1-4 weren't even competing against each other anymore. The only interesting battle was Lotus, Sauber and McLaren for the 7, 8 and 9 spot.

#102 Posted by aurahack (2270 posts) -

Either I am really stupid or that Delete button is way too close.

@bourbon_warrior: That McLaren stop was amazing, especially with their response shortly after.

@berserker976: Nah, that's the interview I read and I still feel like he's not fully understood what exactly he did. There's a lack of conviction in his words whenever he gives an excuse for his actions, but I suppose that's starting to be my own personal takeaway from it.

#103 Edited by Corvak (1008 posts) -

@aurahack: Yeah, not sure if its in the cards - if I do go, it'd probably be alone, haven't heard if any friends will be there. And it all depends on finding a place to stay on the Metro route.

Yeah, really a shame what Vettel did... :<

I can sort of understand the frustration a lot of drivers probably feel, getting their hands tied by team orders. Racing tends to be a much more individual sport, and a lot of these guys live for the competition - its hard to get them to look at the big picture while they are sitting in the driver's seat. Especially when the drivers championship conflicts with the constructors.

The pit stop mistake? Priceless!

#104 Posted by cclemon36 (180 posts) -

@mosespippy: I agree, it was an exciting race up until the end, when it became some hot garbage, as always when team orders interfere with racing. It was pretty awkward and funny listening to the team radios of both Red Bull and Mercedes, and then cut to Ross Brawn and Christian Horner facepalming for, more or less, the same reasons.

@xenonick:@aurahack: I had a feeling Alonso wouldn't come in on that lap, obviously he should have in hindsight, but we've seen drivers go for long stints with a damaged wing, so I bet he was hoping to last at least one more lap or possibly longer, so he could directly change to slicks on the same stop. He was putting up a good pace even with the damage.

I was hoping for a better race from Lotus, but the car seemed really squirrelly, especially for Kimi; glad Grosjean had more success on race day. And what a bummer for Force India, especially with the pace they were driving at, because of a mis-engineered wheel nut apparently?

#105 Edited by isomeri (1253 posts) -

@aurahack said:

@dookysharpgun:

Though you bring up Alonso which I feel silly for forgetting, because I actually think that's the worst situation in the race of them all. To arrogantly pass the pit lane with a completely broken front wing is careless beyond words. There's no way he didn't see the sparks flying from that thing. You could of cooked a full buffalo with the fire it was shooting out around the track. I was fucking terrified when it snapped and blew up into pieces under his car. That none of the chunks flew directly into another driver is really fortunate. I barely thought of it when it happened but the more I think about it, the more I am baffled by how such an experienced, intelligent driver pulled something so unbelievably stupid.

Like, holy shit. That the parts on the side didn't fling into Hamilton's face or something... really lucky.

Yeah you'r right. In the end he was the biggest idiot of the entire race for jeopardizing the race and health of other drivers like that.

#106 Posted by Dookysharpgun (586 posts) -

@aurahack: Oh yeah, Vettel has serious disrespect, and is by far one of the biggest arseholes I've seen in F1. People have every right to feel that way, I just think the sheer danger that faced them both, due to Vettel's actions, which comes back entirely to him and solely him, is enough to crucify him already.

Don't worry about it, Alonso's accident was so early it was overlooked quite a bit. I do agree though, he should have pulled into the pits to get that fixed, he was ordered to do so, it was logical and safety-related and the right call...and he just fucking ignored it. You're right, it was lucky that it didn't fly off and outright kill another driver, or multiple drivers...we've seen big crashes before. Jesus I see that and it was just...I don't get shocked easily, but when his front steering locked when that bastard came off, he was lucky he didn't plow into anyone else. That shit has to be addressed too, it's stupid and careless in a sport where the slightest fuck-up can kill someone, or injure multiple people!

#107 Edited by aurahack (2270 posts) -

@dookysharpgun: Fortunately, the safety regulations on the cars make it near-impossible for the drivers to be killed now. I don't think I've ever seen stricter rules imposed on anything in sports over F1. The steeped noses from last year (and this year for some) are actually a safety regulation. The FIA saw that the height of the noses could go over the sidepods and hit a driver in the head should a t-bone accident occur, so a last-second change was forced-- hence the steeped noses.

@cclemon36: That Force India thing really bummed me the fuck out. Sutil had terrific pace in Qualifying and Di Resta showed a lot of promise, too. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by the Lotus' performance, too. The track seemed really weird this weekend but I feel like they should have performed a lot better. Hopefully they get better traction in China. I want to see them overtake Red Bull on the championship leaderboard. >:(

@corvak: If you take a bus from Montmorency, (the last stop on the orange line) you can access some of the hotels/motels here in Laval. They are considerably cheaper than in Montreal. The only difference is you'll need to pay the extra fare for the bus.

@mosespippy: The middle of it was pretty so-so, yeah. The team radio drama stuff was about the only thing that made the back end of it exciting.

#108 Posted by aurahack (2270 posts) -

Unsure if any of you have already read it, but David Coulthard posted a pretty great article on BBC Sport about the Webber/Vettel stuff. He brings up a few interesting points, one of which I didn't even think of which is whether or not Webber decided to cede the pass to Vettel when he finally was overtaken. Good read.

#109 Edited by TangoUp (307 posts) -

People hated it when Schumacher and Barrichello were following team orders. Now people are upset that Vettel wasn't following team orders. Make up your fucking minds. Vettel was trying to win and it's too bad that Webber thought he should be entitled to the victory.

And Alonso's stunt with the wing was even worse and there's practically no hue and cry about that.

#110 Edited by MachoFantastico (4613 posts) -

Not sure if this as been posted, but Webber cutting Vettel at the end of the race. Actually don't think it looks that bad, maybe just a little frustration.

Concerning team orders TangoUp, I don't think fans are that bothered by them now. When the Schumacher and Barrichello incident happened it was 1. pointless and 2. generally thought that team orders weren't given back then, at least that's how I always saw it. The Webber/Vettel situation is a combination of the fact that Vettel went against the team (very important point I think) and a general build up of dislike for Vettel in general.

#111 Posted by aurahack (2270 posts) -

@tangoup: @trueenglishgent: I think the problem is kerfluffle that followed. Vettel like a child that had done something wrong instead of a driver that wants to win. Had he owned up to what he did, I think the reaction to this would have been pretty different.

#112 Posted by TangoUp (307 posts) -

I find Mark Webber's 'woe be me' drama to be pretty melodramatic as well. And what else do you want Vettel to say?

#113 Posted by Pr1mus (3870 posts) -

@tangoup: There is a pretty big difference between the Schumacher/Barrichello years. For one thing the way some of it was handled on the race track was downright disgusting with Barrichello almost stopping entirely just before the finish lines.

In the case of Red Bull the team instructions have always been the same. The drivers fight it out on the race track and may the best man win until the last set of pit stops. After that if they're in the lead and it's in the bag for the race with a comfortable lead they ease things up, keep position and don't take unnecessary risks. It's a different time now. They have 8 engines for the whole season, the gearbox has to last longer, etc.

Webber was no longer fighting on equal terms with Vettel after tuning the engine down as instructed. That's the dick part from Vettel. What happens if next race Vettel's engine gives up on the last turn? Stuff like that happens and it's why they instruct drivers to not take unnecessary risk when the race is for all intents and purposes over.

#114 Posted by TangoUp (307 posts) -

@pr1mus:

Couldn't Webber have 'turned' his engine up again? Is it possible with those engines?

#115 Edited by Pr1mus (3870 posts) -

@tangoup: I don't know how that works but in the heat of the action when it happened i doubt he could have done anything to prevent this. And after the fact it's no use going after Vettel to retake the first place. That would have made a bad situation worst.

#116 Edited by aurahack (2270 posts) -

@pr1mus: @tangoup: Most likely this, yes. Webber might have caused significant damage to his engine from making it kick-in again and then asking it to give 110% immediately after.

I'm really curious to see what happens next race, now. Will Buxton wrote a pretty interesting blog about the repercussions those actions had on the team, mostly on how Christian Horner essentially lost control of his team because of it. He needs to be seen as the guy in charge as much, if not more, than actually being the guy in charge, and he lost that fight handily during the Vettel/Webber kerfuffle.

#118 Posted by skittles (156 posts) -

Bit of hot bullshit with Webber in Q2... Looking forward to good shootout between the Mercedes, Ferraris and Vettel. My bet has been on Hamilton since before the weekend began, so I'm hoping he'll take pole so I can feel good about myself ;)

#119 Edited by cclemon36 (180 posts) -
#120 Edited by Optix12 (612 posts) -

I tried looking earlier but couldnt find anything about why Vettel may have been put in the 9th place. I kind of get it with using brand new medium tyres at the start of the race (which are apparently performing better than the softs and should last longer) but when red bull have had the option they ahve always opted to go for the pole position. I dont quite see what they are trying to do as overtaking a few of the cars infront of him may be hard unless he gets a great start.
The position also puts him in direct risk of crashing/being pushed outside in the first corner by being in the middle of the pack.

#121 Edited by aajf (223 posts) -

"When Red Bull have had the option" is the crucial line there. They apparently feel much more competitive over long runs than a single lap this weekend. Also, the softer tyre is expected to degrade even faster relative to the medium than usual, so Seb has a decent chance to have some clear air in front of him early in the race.

You're right that he is more likely to get caught up in a collision, but that's the sort of risk you have to take when your setup isn't competitive over one lap and race distance. Red Bull are used to that luxury, but recognise the need to adapt when it's not there.

#122 Edited by Optix12 (612 posts) -

@aajf: Ive always seen Vettels car and drivestyle, like hamiltons usually setup to obtain that pole, and i guess i should have reworded that "had the option" in the case that I have not really seen them take this route before unless the weather is questionable. I have a feeling that vettel may get blocked up by the 8 other cars and not get easy clear air for quite a while.

I have not looked at the practices of this grand prix so dont know how the red bulls fared over the others but im casually assuming that theyre somewhat competitive.

My prediction for the race is for alonso and massa to gain a place or so at the start. Would like hamilton to seal a win here, with rosberg on podium if the mercedes are looking as competitive as they are. Likewise a good showing from the force india duo/ricciardo would be great

#123 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@skittles said:

Bit of hot bullshit with Webber in Q2... Looking forward to good shootout between the Mercedes, Ferraris and Vettel. My bet has been on Hamilton since before the weekend began, so I'm hoping he'll take pole so I can feel good about myself ;)

I had some money on a podium finish for Hamilton last time, was so wrapped when they gave the team orders to have him finish 3rd...

#124 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

Can someone explain why Vettel is paying 6\1, Webber is paying 50\1 and Hamilton is paying 3\1? I missed the practice and qualifying

#125 Edited by Optix12 (612 posts) -

@bourbon_warrior: Not sure if you watched or simply read about qualifying but Hamilton took pole. Webber stopped in Q2 and later got a penalty to the back of the grid while Vettel made a questionable strategic decision to not post a time to start on medium tyres over the seemingly fragile glasswear that is the soft tyres this weekend.

Im also putting in my submission for Webbers saddest face of the chinese weekend: Its not the best so im sure there are winners out there

#126 Edited by skittles (156 posts) -
#127 Posted by aurahack (2270 posts) -

Guh, I'm so late to the party. I'm graduating soon so I've barely had time to keep up with anything. :( I only caught up on the race two nights ago. Great race, though. The first half of it was full of action and some of the fights happening later on were really good to watch.

Highlights for me were Hulkenberg doing crazy good for a really long stretch and Guttierez's incident. Not really because of the incident itself but because of his absolute honesty when he was interviewed about it. He took full blame for it, went into detail about what happened and why he hit Sutil, and extended a sincere apology to everyone involved. It's really, really refreshing to hear a driver be so upfront in the current era of being politically correct all the time or whatever.

#128 Posted by isomeri (1253 posts) -

Yup, Bahrain sure is one boring track. Nice to see Grosjean get back in the groove though.

#129 Edited by DumbFounded (47 posts) -

Hey! Went to the pitwalk yesterday here in Spain and off to Qualifying tomorrow then the race! If people are interested ill pop up some of my photos from the weekend, Got Perez and Hulkenberg and loads of the Sauber practicing pit stops as that's where I got wedged by the all the people there! Will try and get some good shots from Qualifying and the race though!

#130 Edited by Optix12 (612 posts) -

@dumbfounded: Would love to see some of these shots. Crowd seemed super hype for most of the race (for obvious reasons).

Fresh news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22523596 Pirelli will be changing the tyres after the 4 stop race in spain (new tyres due at Canada) and are claiming its not due to red bull pressure. The company also claim that some fans would also enjoy less pit stops and more racing. Am I the only one who thinks that the reason ferrari were so high up there is mostly because they actually raced the whole time, granted Kimi did as well with his Lotus being so nice to tyres allowing him to get a three stop quite easily. If Vettel actually aimed for a four stop race im sure he would have done so much better by racing rather than being forced into a slow race just so he could produce 3 stops.

#131 Posted by granderojo (1778 posts) -
@optix12 said:

@dumbfounded: Would love to see some of these shots. Crowd seemed super hype for most of the race (for obvious reasons).

Fresh news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22523596 Pirelli will be changing the tyres after the 4 stop race in spain (new tyres due at Canada) and are claiming its not due to red bull pressure. The company also claim that some fans would also enjoy less pit stops and more racing. Am I the only one who thinks that the reason ferrari were so high up there is mostly because they actually raced the whole time, granted Kimi did as well with his Lotus being so nice to tyres allowing him to get a three stop quite easily. If Vettel actually aimed for a four stop race im sure he would have done so much better by racing rather than being forced into a slow race just so he could produce 3 stops.

The only reason why Kimi came in second and is doing so well generally is because he's racing for so long and not stopping in the pit. He's currently sitting at second overall and he came in Spain second due to this. All that is due to averaging the least pitstops. Spain he only pitted three times.

Sorry I haven't been posting in the thread much, forgot about it. Loving the season, about to rewatch Spanish GP.

#132 Edited by Optix12 (612 posts) -

@granderojo: From what I remember he was pretty competitive even with the ferraris so he was still going pretty fast, unlike Vettel who I found to be largely out of the race once the middle of the race began and he slowed down to start holding his tyres together. Whatever that Lotus is doing, it is doing it very well. What would be pretty funny is if this just means from Canada Kimi can pull off a 1 stop race.

#133 Edited by randiolo (1090 posts) -

@optix12: Pirelli are changing their tire compound for Canada. Lotus might not have their advantage, or i could enhance it but lotus are not happy about it.

#134 Posted by granderojo (1778 posts) -

@randiolo: @optix12: Regardless of how Lotus feels right now about Pirelli's decision, Kimi is quickly turning into something special. A real driver's driver if he keeps up the attitude he has and pushing the cars to their limit as he has. I wanted to root for Hamilton at the beginning of this season like this but he lives by his pride too much. Really hope the weather is shit for Monaco, the best drivers always put on a display at Monaco in the rain.

#135 Posted by isomeri (1253 posts) -

Well that was interesting. Do you guys know what kind of contract Grosjean is on? I think that Lotus are slightly mad if they keep him in the cockpit for the rest of the season. Maby bring in Heikki Kovalainen from Caterham as a more reliable wingman.

One of the best things in the race was Räikkonen coming back to take a point after Perez tagged him near the end of the race and he had to stop in the pits. He gained six places in seven laps if I'm not mistaken.

#136 Posted by mosespippy (4113 posts) -

@isomeri: I don't know how Kimi did that. I think he still had 3 places and 6 seconds to make up in the last lap. They never showed it. It's kind of hilarious that he spent 70 laps in 5th without a pass and then made up 6 places in such short time.

#137 Posted by Benny (1951 posts) -

@isomeri: I don't know how Kimi did that. I think he still had 3 places and 6 seconds to make up in the last lap. They never showed it. It's kind of hilarious that he spent 70 laps in 5th without a pass and then made up 6 places in such short time.

He's on an incredible run of form, securing that 10th place means he's gone 23 consecutive races finishing in the points, one more equals Schumacher's all time record of 24.

#138 Posted by granderojo (1778 posts) -

@benny said:

@mosespippy said:

@isomeri: I don't know how Kimi did that. I think he still had 3 places and 6 seconds to make up in the last lap. They never showed it. It's kind of hilarious that he spent 70 laps in 5th without a pass and then made up 6 places in such short time.

He's on an incredible run of form, securing that 10th place means he's gone 23 consecutive races finishing in the points, one more equals Schumacher's all time record of 24.

It's been 2 months since you posted this? How is he going on that record?

#139 Edited by isomeri (1253 posts) -

@granderojo said:

@benny said:

@mosespippy said:

@isomeri: I don't know how Kimi did that. I think he still had 3 places and 6 seconds to make up in the last lap. They never showed it. It's kind of hilarious that he spent 70 laps in 5th without a pass and then made up 6 places in such short time.

He's on an incredible run of form, securing that 10th place means he's gone 23 consecutive races finishing in the points, one more equals Schumacher's all time record of 24.

It's been 2 months since you posted this? How is he going on that record?

He took the record from Schumacher, having now finished 27 consecutive races in the points. As mentioned earlier Michael Shumacher's previous record was 24. It should be noted though that it is now easier to finish in the points since the first 10 drivers score points when before only the first 6 got points if I remember correctly.

Still I think that the record is a testament to Kimi's steady and consistent driving style. The most popular rumor right now is that he would be moving to Ferrari in 2014 with a sizable rise in his paycheck.

EDIT: Also looking at some of the statistics it's interesting to see that Kimi has achieved a lot in other record categories as well. He's tied with Shumacher as having the most fastest laps in a season (Shumacher in 2004 and Kimi in 2005 and 2008) and behind Alberto AScari as having the most consecutive fastest laps (Ascari with 7 in 1952-53 and Kimi with 6 in 2008). On top of that he has the most consecutive race finishes with 38.

#140 Posted by Lugaloco (22 posts) -

Would Kimi actually want to be second fiddle to Alonso though?

Raikkonen is, in my opinion, one of the top 3 drivers on the grid. Unless Ferrari shakes things up and lets their drivers "race" against each other I can't imagine Kimi being happy as No. 2 driver. However, I don't know Kimi; so maybe he'd be happy with more money, a far more stable team and be able to help Ferrari bring home the Constructor's.

#141 Edited by isomeri (1253 posts) -

@lugaloco said:

Would Kimi actually want to be second fiddle to Alonso though?

Raikkonen is, in my opinion, one of the top 3 drivers on the grid. Unless Ferrari shakes things up and lets their drivers "race" against each other I can't imagine Kimi being happy as No. 2 driver. However, I don't know Kimi; so maybe he'd be happy with more money, a far more stable team and be able to help Ferrari bring home the Constructor's.

From what I undestand Lotus is in a lot of financial trouble at the moment and their future is uncertain. I'm sure that Kimi could replace Webber at Red Bull if he wanted to, but it seems like the No. 2 driver position there hasn't worked out well for Webber despite his talent. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Kimi ended up being the main driver for Ferrari with Alonso getting sidelined. I don't see any driver switches at Mercedes and I doubt that Kimi would be interested in a position at McLaren.

#142 Edited by Khann (2830 posts) -

I don't really see Kimi going back to Ferrari. Alonso is their man, and Kimi and Ferrari didn't exactly end things super well last time out.

Much more likely to me is Kimi going to RBR or staying where he is.

(Didn't realise there was an F1 thread on GB)

#143 Edited by Lugaloco (22 posts) -

The whole thing is a mess to be honest. Webber's out next year which you'd think would be filled by Kimi, but everyone seems to forget Ricciardo and Toro Rosso. It's basically Red Bull's "Young Driver" team and if they don't give a seat to one of their own then surely Red Bull's Young Driver program would be seen as useless.

Predictions: Ricciardo to Red Bull next year as a No. 2 driver for Vettel. Kimi stays at Lotus IF their financials woes improve otherwise he should be eyeing that Ferrari seat. Massa kept on at Ferrari for another year if Kimi stays at Lotus. Mercedes seem to be doing well with Hamilton and Rosberg so nothing will change there. McLaren seem to be doing terrible with Button and Perez so nothing will change there because McLaren have a crap car and Button/Perez won't find an equivalent/better drive since they're not that great.

#144 Edited by Khann (2830 posts) -

So it's confirmed that Kimi isn't going to RBR (by his manager), which basically means Ricciardo got the seat. Good for him. Nice to see the RBR Young Driver program(me?) doing some good for the first time since Vettel.

#145 Edited by isomeri (1253 posts) -

@khann: Yep, confirmed by Kimi himself as well. As you said it looks like Ricciardo will be moving on up next year. Now we'll just have to wait and see if Kimi joins Ferrari or stays at Lotus. I really don't see any other (rational) options for him.

#146 Edited by Littleg (67 posts) -

I could be wrong, but I think there are several Twitter accounts out there claiming to be Kimi and none of them are him. Hang on, here we go from the man himself:

For what it's worth, I hope that Ricciardo does get the RBR seat, as he seems like a nice guy (although it would be a pity if his spirit is crushed by working in the Vettel machine...).

#147 Edited by aurahack (2270 posts) -

@littleg: I think it's been all but confirmed that it's Ricciardo. I like the kid but I think that's a shit spot for him. The other seat should be taken by someone that can challenge Vettel, not lurk in his shadow. :(

#148 Edited by Khann (2830 posts) -

@aurahack: Who knows, maybe Ricciardo will surprise everyone.

Spa this weekend. Yay!

#149 Posted by aurahack (2270 posts) -

@khann: I hope so. I mean, he's definitely skilled. I just don't feel like he's the kind of "standout" driver that deserves a seat at the best racing team on the planet. But hey--I'm definitely rooting for him to prove me wrong.

AND YESSSnasfnalksdjalkdsjlas I'm so excited. This month has been wicked long. I can't wait to catch up on FP1 and 2 at work tomorrow.

#150 Edited by Lugaloco (22 posts) -

That has to have been one of the craziest qualifying sessions I've seen in a long time. Spa never disappoints.