#201 Edited by FengShuiGod (1492 posts) -

@theht said:

@fengshuigod said:


His explaining to her what the unsullied were and how many he had to sell was delivered tiresomely like it was any other deal because it was predicated on the belief that it was any other deal, which it was not. When you go to buy a car the dealer does what he does normally. If you follow up his pitch with, "Ok, I'll take the whole lot, and what you have on the assembly line," he'll be taken aback.

And he was put off before he was taken aback because he was operating on the belief that she was full of shit. When he realized she wasn't, he was taken aback, and like I said, I bet he would have been regardless of the dragons. Dumping his whole army, plus the interpreter, plus the untrained slaves to one buyer didn't come across as something that he was used to doing, dragons or not.

So he is a fool. Regardless of any haranguing about the details, all of this is justifying necessary plot machinations via flimsy character motivations. He's a fool, and that is reason enough I guess, but he's not really a character. He is just an object that the plot moves through in an attempt to grant Dany an empowering macguffin.

I definitely wouldn't just call him an object. He's a minor minor character but what we've seen of him is enough to get a sense of what we're dealing with.

No, he was obviously taken aback only when the dragon entered the bargaining table. Before that everything was an annoyance. Watch that scene again. He comments that 'she thinks he can flash her tits and we'll giver her whatever she wants' and when she asks for the in-training unsullied his just sighs and rolls his eyes. To him it's just a bunch of hot air, but when she mentions a dragon he suddenly perks up and is willing to give her everything. And as for her getting Missandei that's the only moment Kraznys seems to show some respect to her as she clearly knows she can sqeeze some more out of the deal in her favor (hence the smirk and slight head nod).

The question is whether or not this plot point (necessary only in that it's completely arbitrary) made any leaps in logic that fall apart when you think about it, which it didn't. When it comes down to it, he's there to sell the unsullied and he underestimated Dany.

@fengshuigod said:

@rittsy said:

You can't think about the purchase of a slave army as buying people. All he was doing was selling a product. The slaver, living in a slaver city, probably never even considered someone turning their army against him. Think of it more like someone who owns a gun store; they never really consider the buyer to suddenly turn and shoot them.

This is at least how I justify it.

More like someone walks into a gun store, and they don't have any money, but they want to trade you three lamborghinis for the store. If you aren't suddenly suspicious about that, I dunno.

Suspicious about what? That one of the lamborghinis will blow up after the deal is done? Even if there was one scene with Kraznys and we couldn't discern anything about him, Rittsy's point is enough for a lack of suspicion to be believable.

You'd be suspicious that someone might want the guns for reasons that would come back to bite you. I doubt you want to be the guy that sold a terrorist a nutjob a bunch of guns. If you are giving over the ancient equivalent of a nuke, you'd probably be a little more cautious.

And, like you said, "When it comes down to it, he's there to sell the unsullied and he underestimated Dany." Which is my point precisely. Like I said, regardless of the details, he is there to serve the plot. He underestimates Dany so she can get her army. Dany needs power? This is the best way for her get it without having to give anything up (also, Dragons!). Renly is in the way of the plot? Well, let's use a one time shadow man to fix that! Want to save someone? Here's a dire wolf! Arya is stuck? Meet my friend Jaqen! Ect, ect. Dany getting her army is just one in a long line of ridiculous jumps this show makes. If only the sorting hat appeared during Ned's execution, he could have pulled out the Sword of Gryffindor and saved the day. Alas.

#202 Edited by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

I don't know. I thought it was a special and evil idea that a city would train and torture children into becoming elite swords/spear men. Not that unrealistic really; so beat to the ground that their master's call is all they knew, never having tasted freedom. It seemed like the city (Astapor?) usually never sold more than a hundred or thousand because of security reasons, but when someone shows up and actually brings a living dragon, this becomes a gamble of greed that backfires. They could always train more Unsullied, they had been for ages, it was the identity of the city, but a dragon they might not see ever again. Maybe the young dragon in time would lay more eggs? Now that's value for one crop of fighting slaves.

Dragons are supposed to be extinct so that must have been DAFUQ moment #1 + I'm guessing that they never thought Daenerys (that sweet little girl, right?) would turn out to be capable of ordering an army around, was of Old Valyrian heritage and that she knew how to speak Valyrian. DAFUQ moment #2. She decides to kill almost everyone in the city? DAFUQ moment #3. The slavers wanted all 3 dragons but settled for 1, the biggest one. Seemed fair right? A haggled down price for a drive-in elite army. We kind of learn who she is and what she is capable of now and I think Ser Jorah just realized what a commanding presence she can be.

I wouldn't watch this if it didn't have touches of the supernatural/magical, so Jaqen was great in my opinion. And I'm not going to defend anything the show does because I don't really need it all to make perfect sense for it to be entertaining.

#203 Posted by TheHT (11526 posts) -

You'd be suspicious that someone might want the guns for reasons that would come back to bite you. I doubt you want to be the guy that sold a terrorist a nutjob a bunch of guns. If you are giving over the ancient equivalent of a nuke, you'd probably be a little more cautious.

And, like you said, "When it comes down to it, he's there to sell the unsullied and he underestimated Dany." Which is my point precisely. Like I said, regardless of the details, he is there to serve the plot. He underestimates Dany so she can get her army. Dany needs power? This is the best way for her get it without having to give anything up (also, Dragons!). Renly is in the way of the plot? Well, let's use a one time shadow man to fix that! Want to save someone? Here's a dire wolf! Arya is stuck? Meet my friend Jaqen! Ect, ect. Dany getting her army is just one in a long line of ridiculous jumps this show makes. If only the sorting hat appeared during Ned's execution, he could have pulled out the Sword of Gryffindor and saved the day. Alas.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, saying "When it comes down to it, he's there to sell the unsullied and he underestimated Dany." is not in any way the same as saying "when it comes down to it, he's just a plot device".

I honestly have no idea where you're coming from with any of that. When Bran was pushed did you say "well he's falling so we can have a conflict" or say "well she took Tyrion captive because we need to have Jaime and Ned fight" when that happened? There are details there that made those actions reasonable to those characters, but forget all that, they're just plot machinations.

Dany saw an opportunity to get an army, she took it. Stannis wanted Renly dead, and Melisandre could help, he took it (and she could presumably make more shadow babies if her partner were strong enough (or expendable)). Bran and Arya were in trouble, and the dire wolves that they raised, who were always close by, intervened. Ghost was last seen wandering around the area around Fist of the First Men and many episodes later came to the aid of Jon's friend Sam on the First of the First Men. None of these are ridiculous jumps.

Except for Jaqen. He was obviously just a plot device to get Arya out of the tough situation she was about to be put in, and the whole Lannister's fighting them was just a plot device to get her to help him so he'd help her in that tough situation while simultaneously kicking of that tough situation, and the tough situation was just a plot device so he could help her get out of a tough situation, but that was all just a plot device to get Hot Pie a job. I'll admit, that's a bit ridiculous.

My point is, and was, that the things that happen in the show make sense. Kraznys not predicting the western whore would speak fluent valyrian and would turn her newly acquired small army against the city makes sense, even if you would have done differently in his position. If any other character in the show does anything you yourself wouldn't do under the circumstances, do you write it off as unreasonable too?

#204 Posted by Aegon (5706 posts) -

@theht: If you've read all the books and have also recognized certain things to be a certain way, particularly (MAJOR SPOILERS THIS WAY =>>) Jaqen H'gar's appearance in Feast for Crows and Arya's road to becoming a professional assassin in Braavos (Jaqen's homeland), you'd realize that Jaqen is not just a plot device.

#205 Posted by Zella (774 posts) -

So that dude who tricked Theon, book spoilers: Is totally the original Reek right?

#206 Posted by Aegon (5706 posts) -

@zella said:

So that dude who tricked Theon, book spoilers: Is totally the original Reek right?

Ramsay Snow AKA the Bastard? It looks like it.

#207 Edited by WalkerTR77 (1380 posts) -
#208 Posted by WalkerTR77 (1380 posts) -

So did anyone else really enjoy the fact that Theon wasn't actually being saved, just given false hope and delivered back into torture? If I had it my way, we'd occasionally drop in on Theon once every few episodes to see him being tortured for the next six seasons until he's the size of Peter Dinklage and just barely recognisable as the smug wanker he is.

#209 Posted by BigJeffrey (5078 posts) -

REDHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Episode Rating: 9999 Out Of 10

also zombie dude.

Online
#210 Edited by project343 (2833 posts) -

Such a good episode that nailed some of the best parts of the book (cave sex, Jamie's bath bit, the Hound vs. Dondarrion fight)... ugh.

#211 Edited by TheHT (11526 posts) -

Game of Butts

#212 Posted by thebunnyhunter (1452 posts) -

That Tywin Lannister is a stone cold somabitch

#213 Posted by wefwefasdf (6729 posts) -

There goes Cersei fucking it up for everyone again.

#214 Posted by takayamasama (442 posts) -

@Agnogenic: This seems to be a very, very common theme of hers.

#215 Edited by meaninoflife42 (521 posts) -

Tywin lays down the law like the harsh motherfucker that he is. Great scene.

#216 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5807 posts) -

I wish I was able to watch Game of Thrones. Fuck cable. Never again.

#217 Posted by Clonedzero (4200 posts) -

Really good episode tonight. That's all I'm gonna say, I'm not gonna really read others posts cus too many assholes who read the books feel like spoiling shit for some reason.

#218 Posted by rjayb89 (7726 posts) -

Forget butts, I want to see more bush. Book six spoilers: I loves the bush.

#219 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

Ygritte hnnnnnng

#220 Posted by Aegon (5706 posts) -

History lesson on Aegon pleases me.

#221 Edited by Donkeycow (556 posts) -

Pickled babies.....

#222 Edited by Benny (1953 posts) -

I think this episode was even better than last week's. The highlights being Beric vs the Hound and Jaime's confession. Robb executing Rickard Karstark really gave me serious chills. It was like seeing the very first episode again with Ned executing that deserter from the night's watch. Robb's really becoming his father.

#223 Edited by Marcsman (3239 posts) -

Best episode of the season 3 by far. No BUTTS about it.

#224 Posted by Benny (1953 posts) -

@marcsman: Yeah, any fans of glutes are in for a treat to be sure.

#225 Edited by D0tti (786 posts) -

Tywin is a BOSS! A real cold motherfucker.

#226 Edited by dudeglove (8020 posts) -

They really aren't fucking around this season.

#227 Posted by McTangle (157 posts) -

Ashamed to say I saw the whole 'unsullied kill that dude who sold the unusullied' thing coming, but this season is gearing up for a spectacular finale.

Team Grey Worm.

#228 Posted by Mezmero (1967 posts) -

The latest episode was awesome. Props to the cast for doing a fantastic job even in the buff. It breaks my heart to see Davros in the state he's in. He was my favorite new character in season 2. For the longest time I've been wondering why anyone would worship the Lord of Light but it just dawned on me that he is the natural enemy of the white walkers. Come winter he could be the only hope for survival. For the night is dark and full of terrors.

#229 Posted by JouselDelka (966 posts) -

I'm always dazzled by the fact that the actor playing Tywin, so fucking bossly I might add, is this same guy:

He's clearly a monstrous actor, his performance in this show is bad ass, WHY DID ALI G TAINT HIM?

Anyway, latest episode was great for all the reasons mentioned here. Totally going balls out, serious business is going down!

#230 Edited by Fattony12000 (7528 posts) -

Twyin laying down that smackdown.

#231 Edited by LiquidPrince (16018 posts) -

You guys should watch CBG19's videos for some extra backstory, if you haven't read the books. They're really well done.

#232 Posted by Benny (1953 posts) -

@liquidprince: It's all the joy of getting lost in the wiki, without the risk of spoiling anything past the series, and read to you by the prettiest lady in a tracksuit I've ever seen!

Have you seen the extras on the Blu-ray box set? They essentially got some cast members to do exactly what she does and explain backstory as if the character was telling you it.

#233 Edited by WalkerTR77 (1380 posts) -
#234 Edited by Benny (1953 posts) -

@walkertr77: Wow I rather enjoyed reading that. "Old man Ownage." :)

#235 Posted by WalkerTR77 (1380 posts) -

@benny: Cheers man, glad you liked it!

#236 Posted by Aegon (5706 posts) -

You guys should watch CBG19's videos for some extra backstory, if you haven't read the books. They're really well done.

Woah, that's really well produced and quite informative. I mean, I already knew most of that stuff, but it's cool that it's all wrapped up in a nice presentation.

#237 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4851 posts) -

I'm always dazzled by the fact that the actor playing Tywin, so fucking bossly I might add, is this same guy:

He's clearly a monstrous actor, his performance in this show is bad ass, WHY DID ALI G TAINT HIM?

Anyway, latest episode was great for all the reasons mentioned here. Totally going balls out, serious business is going down!

I remember him mostly for Sardo Numspa in The Golden Child but I agree. Dude's very talented.

#238 Posted by TheHT (11526 posts) -

@benny said:

I think this episode was even better than last week's. The highlights being Beric vs the Hound and Jaime's confession. Robb executing Rickard Karstark really gave me serious chills. It was like seeing the very first episode again with Ned executing that deserter from the night's watch. Robb's really becoming his father.

Yeah, I enjoyed the likeness of the Karstark execution to the execution of Ser Rodrik by Theon.

Also, Stannis' daughter is adorable. "What will they do, lock us in cells?"

#239 Edited by Encephalon (1285 posts) -

I just want to give Arya a hug.

Don't cry, you scruffy little tomboy, you! Everything's gonna be okay! (No, it won't.)

#240 Edited by RollingZeppelin (2027 posts) -
#241 Posted by ShadowConqueror (3066 posts) -

Also Rose Leslie's bum and boobs were so awesome!

Hell yeah!

#242 Posted by WalkerTR77 (1380 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: I think that quite often Tywin is the absolute best thing about Game of Thrones and that's largely due to the Lord of the Dance being uncannily good casting. Ever since that first scene with him lecturing Jaime on what it is to be a Lannister like some badass Mufasa motherfucker I've always wanted to see more of him.

#243 Edited by maskedarcstrike (701 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: "My sweet brother Numpsa!!!" Seriously one of the most underrated movies ever.

edit:btw isn't it kind of weird how little he's aged since Golden Child? I swear it's difficult to tell the difference in GoT and back then. Golden Child came out freaking 27 years ago!!

#244 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4851 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: "My sweet brother Numpsa!!!" Seriously one of the most underrated movies ever.

edit:btw isn't it kind of weird how little he's aged since Golden Child? I swear it's difficult to tell the difference in GoT and back then. Golden Child came out freaking 27 years ago!!

It makes sense when you realize Game of Thrones is the spiritual sequel to The Golden Child, as Tywin Lannister is the assumed identity of satanist Sardo Numspa after being stabbed into an alternate dimension some 27 years ago.

Clearly.

#245 Posted by rjayb89 (7726 posts) -

Apparently, even book readers will be in for quite a surprise tonight so be mindful of spoilers tonight. Alls yous guys.

#246 Posted by Godlyawesomeguy (6399 posts) -

Tywin lays down the law like the harsh motherfucker that he is. Great scene.

He's a fucking bastard though. Seriously, what a selfish cunt.

#247 Edited by laserbolts (5331 posts) -

I'm hoping Tyrion turns into a dragon and kills Tywin tonight. I havent read the book so dont spoil it if it happens.

#248 Edited by Aegon (5706 posts) -

@rjayb89 said:

Apparently, even book readers will be in for quite a surprise tonight so be mindful of spoilers tonight. Alls yous guys.

Oh no, another big change?

#249 Edited by rjayb89 (7726 posts) -

@aegon said:

@rjayb89 said:

Apparently, even book readers will be in for quite a surprise tonight so be mindful of spoilers tonight. Alls yous guys.

Oh no, another big change?

Well, the episode should have finished airing about fifteen minutes ago (EST), so if you haven't seen the episode yet, don't look at my spoilers. Seems people are up in arms over the nature of Ros' death. I personally haven't seen the episode but I think it's Joffrey who caused it? It's appropriate for the character to be brutal. The fact that it's sexualized violence toward a woman doesn't sit well with the audience out of context when people have been spoiled about it earlier today, including me (but I don't mind spoilers, hence me forewarning youse).

#250 Posted by Godlyawesomeguy (6399 posts) -

@rjayb89 said:

@aegon said:

@rjayb89 said:

Apparently, even book readers will be in for quite a surprise tonight so be mindful of spoilers tonight. Alls yous guys.

Oh no, another big change?

Well, the episode should have finished airing about fifteen minutes ago (EST), so if you haven't seen the episode yet, don't look at my spoilers. Seems people are up in arms over the nature of Ros' death. I personally haven't seen the episode but I think it's Joffrey who caused it? It's appropriate for the character to be brutal. The fact that it's sexualized violence toward a woman doesn't sit well with the audience out of context when people have been spoiled about it earlier today, including me (but I don't mind spoilers, hence me forewarning youse).

It made sense in context, and even though it is fucked up, I don't see how it would be offensive in any way. I mean, people who have watched up to this point have seen far, far worse things than the aftermath of a killing.