#551 Posted by NoCookiesForYou (783 posts) -

Oh man, Peter Dinklage just takes it to the next level. I could feel the emotions running through his character. What a performance.

#552 Posted by Ares42 (2815 posts) -

I might be a bit repetitive here, but the diss Tywin pulled on Mace Tyrell was just magical.

#553 Posted by Yummylee (22683 posts) -

@yummylee said:

Oh yes, the trial was most certainly worth the wait! However...

@lunnington said:

@slashdance: I thought that scene was horrible.

What even happened? She shows up, kills everyone between her and Ramsay, and then he threatens to release the dogs on them while they're standing there surrounding him? I mean, first of all, they can take a few dogs. Second, just kill him before he opens the cage? It wasn't just anticlimactic, it didn't make sense.

Those where my exact thoughts with that scene, too.

Also, did Tyrion perhaps piss off Varys in the past? He said something like ''I don't forget'' when Tyrion asks of him to remember that he would never forget how Tyrion saved Kings Landing. Though it was obviously phrased as if there was something else that he didn't forget, something he maybe didn't approve of, but I can't remember them falling out in any way. Or maybe that was just there to show how Varys, like Baelish, truly has no allegiances beyond his own, and will always put himself first. Given the way the wind's were blowing throughout the trial, he figured it best he go with the flow and condemn Tyrion just as much as everyone else did.

Not so much himself he's protecting, but the realm. Varys has always said he's a 'realm first' dude...I think he respects Tyrion, but there's no reason for him to stand up for the most hated man in King's Landing. That would be a death sentence and would scotch whatever plans he has to protect the kingdom.

Yeah sure, I see what you mean. I wouldn't have expected him to stick up for Tyrion, but I was a little confused in trying to understand his motivations after the whole ''I don't forget'' comment.

Online
#554 Posted by Nightriff (5493 posts) -

Second half of the episode was great, really enjoyed the trial and can't wait to see the trial by combat, no idea what is going to happen, well except that eventually Tywin and Shae die by Tyrion's hand....right?

#555 Edited by AlKusanagi (1002 posts) -

Second half of the episode was great, really enjoyed the trial and can't wait to see the trial by combat, no idea what is going to happen, well except that eventually Tywin and Shae die by Tyrion's hand....right?

I have a feeling the show might change it slightly since the character is far more sympathetic in the show than the books: Tywin will probably have Shae dealt with, which will give Tyrion a more justified reason to kill his father than just pure hatred.

#556 Edited by ChrisHarris (263 posts) -

Varys wasn't betraying Tyrion. The trial was rigged, so he used it as an opportunity to ingratiate himself with those in power. Unless he agreed to lie and then told the truth once on the stand, which would have gotten him killed, he couldn't do anything to help. He waits until Tyrion is scheduled to be executed, then helps Tyrion escape across the Narrow Sea.

#557 Posted by militantfreudian (145 posts) -
@hermes said:

I think that is a problem with the way they adapted Shae in the series. In the series, it is shown that Shae loves Tyrion, even to the point of throwing her safety away to be with him. In the books, she is fond of him, but she does not truly love him, as she is a whore at heart.

Honestly, that sounds infinitely more interesting than the way their relationship was portrayed in the series. Some of the things they say to each other are cringeworthy, and I find Shae to be pretty darn annoying. That said, I'm happy this week's episode turned out to be good. It was depressing how last week's episodes of Game of Thrones and Mad Men were mediocre. Both series' episodes ended up on a cliffhanger of some sort, so I can't wait for next Sunday!

#558 Posted by Humanity (10490 posts) -

@sterling said:
@theht said:

OH MY FUCK

Next Sunday wont come soon enough.

I demand an episode by combat!!

#559 Edited by Sterling (2819 posts) -

@humanity said:

@sterling said:
@theht said:

OH MY FUCK

Next Sunday wont come soon enough.

I demand an episode by combat!!

#560 Posted by development (2784 posts) -

Shit. Shit shit shit. Every time I come in here I accidentally spoil something for myself. My own fault. Tywin, huh? Ain't that some shit.

I'll agree with some others here and say that whole Ironborn bit was super dumb.

So, who do you guys think will end up fighting for Tyrion? Here's my guess: The Mountain vs. Oberyn. A match made in heaven that has been foreshadowed quite a bit.

#561 Posted by Sterling (2819 posts) -

I think Oberyn will volunteer to be his champion.

Also what ever happened to Arias assassin friend? The one that she spoke the names to, and he killed them. I keep thinking hes going to make a return. But I'm not sure if he will. Like she will run into him on the road again, and he will kill the Hound or something.

#562 Posted by Sergio (2325 posts) -

@aegon (Big spoilers for the end of this season and book 3) That's why Tyrion kills her remember?

Well, that and because she was banging his dad. They changed the chain to a pin, so I guess he'll be stabbing her with it instead of choking her.

#563 Posted by LiquidPrince (16255 posts) -

@epstein said:

They sure like fitting the rains of castemere in as mainy episodes as they can.

It's one of the main background themes of the series... And there are a trillion variations of it. I don't really understand why people need to keep bringing this up...

#564 Posted by epstein (22 posts) -

@liquidprince: Trust me I love the song I just think they do such a good job at translating music and songs from the books to the tv show that it is just a little disappointing when they reuse music.

#565 Posted by SlashDance (1845 posts) -

Speaking of music, I really liked the variation on the Theon theme during the Dreadfort scene.

#566 Edited by Hunter5024 (6082 posts) -

@sergio said:

Well, that and because she was banging his dad. They changed the chain to a pin, so I guess he'll be stabbing her with it instead of choking her.

(End of Book 3 spoilers) Actually I can't really picture Tyrion murdering Shae with the way their arc has played out on the show. This is just my interpretation, but in the books it always seemed to me like Shae was a simple whore, who felt very little personal attachment to Tyrion, but pretended that she did because it's what he was into. Tyrion let himself believe it, and when he realized that it was all an act he couldn't handle it and killed her. In the show I think Shae has shown a lot more affection for Tyrion, and her betrayal seems to be motivated by Tyrion choosing Sansa over her. I think when they get to that scene, they're going to have to do some serious contextualizing if they want Tyrion to retain any sympathy from the audience after murdering her. Or maybe there will be an entirely different outcome. It's hard to say, they seem less and less worried about straying from the source material as they go on.

#567 Posted by Aegon (5920 posts) -

@hunter5024: I think a large part of the outcome depends on whether (cont. Book 3 spoilers) she's shown in Tywin's bedroom at all. If she is, that might be enough for the audience to understand what made Tyrion do what he did.

#568 Posted by LiquidPrince (16255 posts) -

@epstein said:

@liquidprince: Trust me I love the song I just think they do such a good job at translating music and songs from the books to the tv show that it is just a little disappointing when they reuse music.

That's fair. More amazing music by Ramin Djawadi is always welcome.

#569 Posted by Hunter5024 (6082 posts) -

@aegon: (End of Book 3 Spoilers) To me, having sex with Tywin always just seemed like the cherry on top of her betrayal sundae. I think if he'd found her in some random dudes room, he probably still would have shot her, for making him believe that she loved him when she didn't, testifying to have him executed, and unnecessarily humiliating him in the process. Though perhaps the murder was more influenced by what she was doing with Tywin. I suppose it just comes down to personal interpretation. It will be interesting to see how they handle it.

#570 Edited by LiquidPrince (16255 posts) -

Just so freaking good. Episode spoilers obviously, but the thumbnail doesn't give anything away. Such an intense scene.

#571 Posted by Butano (1805 posts) -

@liquidprince: Just finished the episode, and holy shit, that performance was just incredible. I don't think I've been that tense watching a scene since Ned's beheading. Infuckingcredible scene by Dinklage.

#572 Posted by Sergio (2325 posts) -

@yummylee said:

Oh yes, the trial was most certainly worth the wait! However...

@lunnington said:

@slashdance: I thought that scene was horrible.

What even happened? She shows up, kills everyone between her and Ramsay, and then he threatens to release the dogs on them while they're standing there surrounding him? I mean, first of all, they can take a few dogs. Second, just kill him before he opens the cage? It wasn't just anticlimactic, it didn't make sense.

Those where my exact thoughts with that scene, too.

Also, did Tyrion perhaps piss off Varys in the past? He said something like ''I don't forget'' when Tyrion asks of him to remember that he would never forget how Tyrion saved Kings Landing. Though it was obviously phrased as if there was something else that he didn't forget, something he maybe didn't approve of, but I can't remember them falling out in any way. Or maybe that was just there to show how Varys, like Baelish, truly has no allegiances beyond his own, and will always put himself first. Given the way the wind's were blowing throughout the trial, he figured it best he go with the flow and condemn Tyrion just as much as everyone else did.

Not so much himself he's protecting, but the realm. Varys has always said he's a 'realm first' dude...I think he respects Tyrion, but there's no reason for him to stand up for the most hated man in King's Landing. That would be a death sentence and would scotch whatever plans he has to protect the kingdom.

I interpreted it as Varys feeling sympathy for those who have done good being taken out, with him not really being able to do anything but play his role. He hasn't forgotten Ned Stark, and he won't forget Tyrion. It's not that he was mad at Tyrion or necessarily putting the realm ahead of Tyrion. He just can't do anything for him, and he's resigned himself to see Tyrion meet a bad fate.

#573 Posted by kishinfoulux (2564 posts) -

Awesome episode, but the Theon scene was the most anticlimactic thing I've ever seen.

I could not give one fuck about Theon and that whole story arc.

Great episode. As others have said, Dinklage killed it. What a scene that was. Also, unless they have something over her head, fuck Shae man. I actually liked her. If this is some petty revenge shit then I hope she gets hers.

#574 Posted by Sergio (2325 posts) -

@sterling said:

I think Oberyn will volunteer to be his champion.

Also what ever happened to Arias assassin friend? The one that she spoke the names to, and he killed them. I keep thinking hes going to make a return. But I'm not sure if he will. Like she will run into him on the road again, and he will kill the Hound or something.

You won't be seeing him again. He hasn't been in any of the other books again, yet.

The end of the season will probably show her using the coin he gave her to book passage across the narrow sea.

I won't spoil what she does there.

#575 Posted by crithon (3462 posts) -

the trial could have been handled better, the problem was it never felt like shit pilled atop of Tyrion considering how often he was slapping Jeoffery around. Instead the trial was a bore, but still the moment the last witness pops up, the look on Tyrion's face was a gut punch. They know how to make those last 10 minutes worth it on the show..... I'd rather just watch just only 10 minutes of every episode instead.

#576 Posted by Lunnington (267 posts) -

@sterling said:

I think Oberyn will volunteer to be his champion.

Also what ever happened to Arias assassin friend? The one that she spoke the names to, and he killed them. I keep thinking hes going to make a return. But I'm not sure if he will. Like she will run into him on the road again, and he will kill the Hound or something.

He's probably off doing more contracts or whatever it is the Faceless Men do. I doubt he had any real attachment to Arya, and we wouldn't recognize him even if we saw him again (due to the nature of his work).

#577 Edited by Hunter5024 (6082 posts) -

So have they done the story about the Tourney at Harrenhal yet? I don't remember seeing it, but I'm pretty sure it happened long before this in the books, so it's possible I missed it. I wonder if they have something more explicit planned for that.

#578 Posted by Demmetje (204 posts) -

@sergio: (Spoilers for the rest of the books) General consensus is that Jaqen has actually already been featured in the narrative. Specifically, as the shadowy figure who kills Pate in the prologue of A Feast for Crows. He then goes on to take the identity of Pate at the Citadel, who meets Sam in a later Oldtown chapter.

#579 Posted by SingingMenstrual (327 posts) -

It's awesome that duders are specifying what they're spoiling now, much easier to read this thread.

@sterling said:

Also what ever happened to Arias assassin friend? The one that she spoke the names to, and he killed them. I keep thinking hes going to make a return. But I'm not sure if he will. Like she will run into him on the road again, and he will kill the Hound or something.

I had that question a couple of weeks ago and I decided to look up that character. I kind of regret it because I kind of very slightly ruined the surprise of his character. I'm not saying there IS a surprise, I'm not saying anything happens, or whether he comes back or not, I'm saying I'm no longer unsure whether he'll pop up again or not, be mentioned or not, etc, because now I sort of know, as opposed to having no idea before.

Long story short - don't look him up, keep wondering and see what happens, that's the much better route!

#580 Posted by Zevvion (2443 posts) -

Only recently got to see the latest episode. It was awesome. However, as I'm more and more aware that I really like the build up that the series creates, but haven't encountered any pay-off that I like, I'm very worried about the ending of this episode. It ended awesomely, with great build up. Which makes me scared now that none of it will be paid off. I haven't read any of the books, but I envision Tywin saying like: 'Trial by combat? Denied. You go to the wall' - end scene. Or something similar.

What I hope to happen is that Jaime won't let him fight and asks to be his champion and then destroys whoever the court's champion will be with his newly acquired left handed sword skills. But judging from what happens throughout the entire series, I kind of doubt that will happen. Don't spoil it for me though.

#581 Posted by Jesus_Phish (1274 posts) -

Why did Asha and her five fighters turn around and run away from Ramsey Snow and a couple of dogs? Why didn't they just cut him up then and there, knock Theon over the head and bring him home? Why did they let Ramsey Snow open the cages to the dogs? I know the reason is probably "for the story", but I cannot get my head around how 6 people didn't figure that they'd been this far, they may as well just lamp this one last guy over the head and win.

#582 Posted by Demmetje (204 posts) -

@jesus_phish: Yeah it was a really poorly written and directed sequence. The implication was that Yara figured out that there was nothing to win in Theon anymore and bringing him home would probably only be harmful to the Greyjoy family, but still, those beats were dumb.

#583 Posted by Marcsman (3333 posts) -

@zevvion said:

Only recently got to see the latest episode. It was awesome. However, as I'm more and more aware that I really like the build up that the series creates, but haven't encountered any pay-off that I like, I'm very worried about the ending of this episode. It ended awesomely, with great build up. Which makes me scared now that none of it will be paid off. I haven't read any of the books, but I envision Tywin saying like: 'Trial by combat? Denied. You go to the wall' - end scene. Or something similar.

What I hope to happen is that Jaime won't let him fight and asks to be his champion and then destroys whoever the court's champion will be with his newly acquired left handed sword skills. But judging from what happens throughout the entire series, I kind of doubt that will happen. Don't spoil it for me though.

As Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Jamie cannot champion Tyrion when it involves killing the king he is sworn to protect. Plus he kind of sucks at swordplay only having one hand.

#584 Posted by Lunnington (267 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@stryker1121 said:

@yummylee said:

Oh yes, the trial was most certainly worth the wait! However...

@lunnington said:

@slashdance: I thought that scene was horrible.

What even happened? She shows up, kills everyone between her and Ramsay, and then he threatens to release the dogs on them while they're standing there surrounding him? I mean, first of all, they can take a few dogs. Second, just kill him before he opens the cage? It wasn't just anticlimactic, it didn't make sense.

Those where my exact thoughts with that scene, too.

Also, did Tyrion perhaps piss off Varys in the past? He said something like ''I don't forget'' when Tyrion asks of him to remember that he would never forget how Tyrion saved Kings Landing. Though it was obviously phrased as if there was something else that he didn't forget, something he maybe didn't approve of, but I can't remember them falling out in any way. Or maybe that was just there to show how Varys, like Baelish, truly has no allegiances beyond his own, and will always put himself first. Given the way the wind's were blowing throughout the trial, he figured it best he go with the flow and condemn Tyrion just as much as everyone else did.

Not so much himself he's protecting, but the realm. Varys has always said he's a 'realm first' dude...I think he respects Tyrion, but there's no reason for him to stand up for the most hated man in King's Landing. That would be a death sentence and would scotch whatever plans he has to protect the kingdom.

Yeah sure, I see what you mean. I wouldn't have expected him to stick up for Tyrion, but I was a little confused in trying to understand his motivations after the whole ''I don't forget'' comment.

I interpreted it differently.

I saw it as Varys dropping a subtle hint that he hadn't forgotten about Tyrion. He said he never forgets, so either he completely contradicted himself or he was telling Tyrion that he in-fact did not forget.

#585 Posted by Marcsman (3333 posts) -

Varys was letting Tyrion know he did not forget. Early in the show he did warn Tyrion he would not risk his neck for him. Varys certainly kept his word.

#586 Posted by Bones8677 (3292 posts) -

Y'know, it was this very show that informed me that 'Trial by Combat' was even a thing that existed.

#587 Edited by Mezmero (2172 posts) -

Really enjoyed episode 6 a lot though I'm reminded of just how uninteresting the whole Theon story line has been. The only part that I was looking forward to with that was the actual raid on the Dreadfort and even that was lackluster. Now I just don't care what happens with the Ironborn because they've been made to look weak as hell through the entire series. I'm liking the Oberyn character more and more the further we get into this season. Unfortunately I think I was spoiled on certain details about his inevitable meeting with The Mountain. As always Sir Davos is a freaking boss and still one of my favorite characters currently. The Danaerys stuff was pretty good in showing her dealing with some of the repercussions of trying to be Abradolf Lincler. I thought it was pretty awesome for them to produce a good ol' fashion dragon razing the countryside scene. Seems like dragon insurance rates are going to go up during her rule.

Tyrion's trial turned out a lot better than I thought it would be particularly at the end. It's been fun to watch him put up with so much crap when he's probably the only truly honorable Lanister in existence. In King's Landing that's just the way things go. If you're a dwarf, you might as well not show up on the street, unless you wanna draw the heat. It's really too bad how things have developed between him and Shae. There was a time when I thought she was secretly a valar magulis super assassin explaining her lack of fear in the presence of nobility. Turns out she's probably just a crazy whore who wants revenge for being treated like crap by her sugar daddy. I'd like to dedicate this song to Tyrion and Shae. Take care you crazy kids.

#588 Posted by Bollard (5937 posts) -

As a book reader I'm pleased with how they handled the trial. Had much of what made it so good in the books, and Dinklage's performance was amazing as usual.

#589 Posted by SingingMenstrual (327 posts) -

@mezmero said:

Unfortunately I think I was spoiled on certain details about his inevitable meeting with The Mountain.

Thanks a lot, I put it in a spoiler tag for you...

#590 Edited by Mezmero (2172 posts) -

@singingmenstrual: My bad but they teased this like three episodes ago. I don't even know if it will come to pass since that event itself wasn't even spoiled to me. I'm just assuming it will happen at some point.

Edit: Here's Tywen's exact dialogue with Oberyn from episode 3 of season 4: "You help me serve justice to the king's assassins and I will help you serve justice to Elia's." They said this in the show so screw you, I didn't spoil shit.

#591 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (1055 posts) -

OK, I don't get why this "trial by combat" is such a big deal. Did he really have a better choice? Why would he not demand trial by combat?

Also, is it just me or was this really poorly directed episode (at least cinematography wise)?

#592 Posted by Marcsman (3333 posts) -

@charlie_victor_bravo: Even Jamie Lannister in his prime would be very hard pressed to kill Gregor Clegane the Mountain Who Rides. The reason Tyrion should not pick trial by combat is because Cersei is gonna make his champion face the Mountain. Most sane people would take the Night's Watch.

#593 Edited by charlie_victor_bravo (1055 posts) -

@marcsman: OK thanks. I forgot that. Makes much more sense now... AND I think I see where this is going. Interesting.

#594 Posted by Jay_Ray (1147 posts) -

OK, I don't get why this "trial by combat" is such a big deal. Did he really have a better choice? Why would he not demand trial by combat?

There are a few reasons why Tyrion should not select a trial by combat. First, Tyrion needs to find a champion since he is considered a "cripple" and would instantly be killed in a one-on-one fight. So who could fight for him? Bronn and Jamie are the only front runners. But Jamie is a Kingsguard and he isn't skilled enough yet with his left arm, Bronn is a sellsword and while he is a proven great fighter won't risk his life against someone who is probably the deadliest warrior in the land (Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane) since Cersei, as the accuser, gets to pick the champion for her side.

So choosing trail by combat basically means he is dead. If he allowed the jury to find him guilty Tyrion would have been allowed to join the Night's Watch, which maybe a terrible outcome but at least he'd be alive.

#595 Posted by DefaultProphet (575 posts) -

Why did Asha and her five fighters turn around and run away from Ramsey Snow and a couple of dogs? Why didn't they just cut him up then and there, knock Theon over the head and bring him home? Why did they let Ramsey Snow open the cages to the dogs? I know the reason is probably "for the story", but I cannot get my head around how 6 people didn't figure that they'd been this far, they may as well just lamp this one last guy over the head and win.

Ramsay let them go. The castle was alerted at that point and they weren't fighting their way out of their while dragging Reek along.

#596 Posted by SingingMenstrual (327 posts) -

@mezmero: Don't take it so seriously brother, no hate, but the dialogue you quoted is talk in the air, it doesn't guarantee anything actually taking place because talk is talk in Game of Thrones.. so if what you said about the meeting is your own speculation, you should have worded it differently. It's cool though.

@jesus_phish said:

Why did Asha and her five fighters turn around and run away from Ramsey Snow and a couple of dogs? Why didn't they just cut him up then and there, knock Theon over the head and bring him home? Why did they let Ramsey Snow open the cages to the dogs? I know the reason is probably "for the story", but I cannot get my head around how 6 people didn't figure that they'd been this far, they may as well just lamp this one last guy over the head and win.

Ramsay let them go. The castle was alerted at that point and they weren't fighting their way out of their while dragging Reek along.

Even you are calling him Reek now? How could you? You monster.

It's insane that I wanted to see this man impaled one/two seasons ago, now I feel so sorry for him. Damn you GRRM, you're playing wit ma emotions.

#597 Edited by DefaultProphet (575 posts) -

@singingmenstrual said:

@mezmero: Don't take it so seriously brother, no hate, but the dialogue you quoted is talk in the air, it doesn't guarantee anything actually taking place because talk is talk in Game of Thrones.. so if what you said about the meeting is your own speculation, you should have worded it differently. It's cool though.

@defaultprophet said:

@jesus_phish said:

Why did Asha and her five fighters turn around and run away from Ramsey Snow and a couple of dogs? Why didn't they just cut him up then and there, knock Theon over the head and bring him home? Why did they let Ramsey Snow open the cages to the dogs? I know the reason is probably "for the story", but I cannot get my head around how 6 people didn't figure that they'd been this far, they may as well just lamp this one last guy over the head and win.

Ramsay let them go. The castle was alerted at that point and they weren't fighting their way out of their while dragging Reek along.

Even you are calling him Reek now? How could you? You monster.

It's insane that I wanted to see this man impaled one/two seasons ago, now I feel so sorry for him. Damn you GRRM, you're playing wit ma emotions.

Reek Reek it rhymes with Freak

#598 Posted by Aegon (5920 posts) -

Reek Reek it rhymes with Freak

Man, the Reek reveal was done so well in the books. Sucks they had to rush it into the show.

#599 Posted by Sergio (2325 posts) -

@aegon said:

@defaultprophet said:

Reek Reek it rhymes with Freak

Man, the Reek reveal was done so well in the books. Sucks they had to rush it into the show.

True. I guess they needed filler, and they decided to show how Reek came to be. It was also easier to accomplish that as a surprise in the books since you don't see an actor, which would have been a dead giveaway who Reek was.

#600 Posted by Marcsman (3333 posts) -

Reek got what he deserved. He betrayed King Robb. Took Winterfell. Then decided to fight when the Northmen came after him with superior numbers. He could have left with his sister but he refused. Plus he killed 2 innocent boys to cover up his incompetence. Taking the Black was also a option too. But no he wouldn't do it.