#901 Posted by Seikenfreak (453 posts) -

Was a little bored with this episode. After the big stuff in last weeks episode, I was more interested to see the events with King's Landing, Arya, and Sansa. Not so much about this wall.

#902 Edited by HatKing (5979 posts) -

@afabs515 said:

Eh. I found it super predictable and fairly uninteresting. When Ygritte died I didn't really care because so many people were dying that episode that a lot of the force behind the event was lost on me. Also, this entire thing is, as far as I can tell, so irrelevant to everything going on in King's Landing, which, along with whatever Arya's doing at any given moment, is what I actually care about. Overall, it was well-produced, but I didn't particularly enjoy it. High hopes for the finale though.

This is kind of how I feel after watching every episode, it seems. I quit giving a shit about the 'weighty' deaths when they decided to start killing off named characters every other episode. Doing it more frequently wasn't the solution to that problem. Now it just feels like their lazy way of prolonging an already stagnant narrative. In a really general sense, nothing in this show has really changed for a very, very long time. Fuck, even the king died and it didn't really do shit. Some other asshole just replaced him (or not?) and it's still kind of the same stuff. Sure, maybe that's you're message, shit sucks forever and ever, and the handicapped kid is going to keep killing beetles forever, but do you really need this much time to drive that point home? It's tired as hell. I don't even want the bad guys to die anymore, I just want something meaningful to actually happen. A conclusion to one of the narratives that doesn't ask more questions than it answers.

#903 Posted by Brackstone (70 posts) -

@ssully: Well I guess my issue is the fact that these things don't really have enough immediate consequences. Robb and the Stark army in particular never seemed to have accomplished much at all, and apart from when Stannis was invading it really never seemed like the land was at war. Robb and the Stark army didn't really seem like they were going anywhere, and had never done anything really important apart from starting the war, so when the Red Wedding came, it seemed more like the show was trimming some fat than bringing a proper story arch to it's conclusion. Now, with Oberyn, the result of the trial is almost the same as if Tyrion hadn't found a champion, or had simply been convicted from the beginning. I'll wait to see what events follow from his death, but so far it seems like a waste of a character, who as a character, did essentially nothing. The thing people say is that Dorne is going to be angry at his death, but a nameless prince of Dorne with no lines could have served the same purpose. So what was the point of introducing a fairly fleshed out character, perfectly positioned to make things really interesting in kings landing, only for him to serve the same purpose as if he had nothing but a name and a title?

I guess my criticism is that despite large events occurring, nothing really ever seems to change, and when something could change, something occurs to prevent it from doing so. People said The Red Wedding would have huge implications for all of Westeros, but so far it doesn't seem to have really had any effect. Sure, the Boltons control the North, but much of that storyline is so far removed from anything else that it really doesn't seem that important. I'd even say the war overall hasn't really seemed all that important. I'm sure it could be important in the end, but I'd expect more immediate consequences from a 5 way war for control of the whole kingdom. Anyway, as I said, I've only watched the show, so for all I know next season every big thing the show has been leading up to could occur all at once, but for now that's my criticism.

Anyway, this episode was great. I wish there was a full fight scene with the giant in that tunnel, but that could be difficult to make, and everything else was really great, especially the big dumb scythe.

#904 Edited by SSully (4199 posts) -

@hatking said:

@afabs515 said:

Eh. I found it super predictable and fairly uninteresting. When Ygritte died I didn't really care because so many people were dying that episode that a lot of the force behind the event was lost on me. Also, this entire thing is, as far as I can tell, so irrelevant to everything going on in King's Landing, which, along with whatever Arya's doing at any given moment, is what I actually care about. Overall, it was well-produced, but I didn't particularly enjoy it. High hopes for the finale though.

This is kind of how I feel after watching every episode, it seems. I quit giving a shit about the 'weighty' deaths when they decided to start killing off named characters every other episode. Doing it more frequently wasn't the solution to that problem. Now it just feels like their lazy way of prolonging an already stagnant narrative. In a really general sense, nothing in this show has really changed for a very, very long time. Fuck, even the king died and it didn't really do shit. Some other asshole just replaced him (or not?) and it's still kind of the same stuff. Sure, maybe that's you're message, shit sucks forever and ever, and the handicapped kid is going to keep killing beetles forever, but do you really need this much time to drive that point home? It's tired as hell. I don't even want the bad guys to die anymore, I just want something meaningful to actually happen. A conclusion to one of the narratives that doesn't ask more questions than it answers.

The king died. During this event his uncle, Tyrion, was accused of his death and Arya escaped. Because Arya escaped she got shacked up with Little Finger and her Aunt. Because of this her Aunt died and now Little Finger and Arya have the Eyrie, one of the last strongholds in Westeroes left that isn't in Lannister hands.

Tyrion being accused has led to even more even more dissent being the Lannisters(Jamie is being pushed further away from his father and sister), and has led to Oberyn Martell, a prince of one of the Lannisters biggest rivals, to die. They aren't going to be very happy to hear of this event. It's also worth noting that the Martell's have Myrcella Lannister in their custody.

Not to mention the kings actual death was orchestrated by the Tyrell's and Littlefinger. Margaery Tyrell now is getting married to a more malleable Lannister(tommen).

To say that the king died and not much happened is pretty shortsighted. As for finding meaning? That's all about perspective. In the grand scheme of things, more meaningful things have happened in this season then any of the past seasons; including what's happening at the wall right now.

#905 Posted by GnomeonFire (752 posts) -

They better end episode 10 on Lady Stoneheart and not Daenerys again.

#906 Edited by Aegon (5661 posts) -

I liked it. There was one long shot in there that was done well. They switched around some roles and there are at least two named characters dead who are alive in the books. Also, the fight definitely felt a lot longer and tiring in the books. It lasts for days and (episode details) Jon going to Mance happens under quite different circumstances. But of course, everything surrounding this battle has been jumbled up and changed here and there (before and after it), so it's to be expected.

Online
#907 Posted by BigJeffrey (5027 posts) -

rip

#908 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5554 posts) -

That was a pretty cool episode. People die to backside of hammer to the skull a lot in movies/shows for whatever reason, seems like it would be tough to actually do that.

Lot of stuff to go through next episode.

#909 Edited by bushpusherr (790 posts) -

They better end episode 10 on Lady Stoneheart and not Daenerys again.

As a general warning, if you aren't already familiar with what this is spoiling, don't even look it up. The first time I heard that name, I figured it was just some new character I hadn't heard about from some distant family, and a fairly significant event was spoiled immediately by an image popping up when I typed it into google.

#910 Edited by Yummylee (21789 posts) -

I quite enjoyed that one. All the dread bubbling underneath before and during the fight worked wonders for me, and all of the action was shot really well. A fun time all around, and I like how they offset the victory by of course reiterating the fact that that was just one battle of what'll be many. It was great to have the good guys win at least some sort of conflict again. Good to see Sam keepin' his cool like a boss; he's come such a long way :')

After watching next week's promo, I'm glad it seems Jon will in fact come into contact with Mance then and there. Seeing him walking off into the white light had me assume that was going to kickstart yet another storyline of following Jon travelling along, taking up a whole seaon for him to reach his destination in the process.

The Season overall is a bit mixed, especially during the middle episodes. But each time I'm always excited to see the next, and this episode in particular alongside episode 8 before it has reinvigorated my enjoyment some.

#911 Posted by ZolRoyce (710 posts) -

The battle in this episode is to T.V. battles what Helms Deep in The Lord Of The Rings was to movie battles. And I'm not just making that compassion due to the whole castle/keep similarity but just the scope and how much it ups how other people who will need to do the same thing with their shows.
Really loved it over all, none of the deaths major or otherwise surprised me, but for once I'm kind of glad it played out at least semi-cliche/expected. Sometimes it's just nice for the good guys to not get entirely obliterated. So, lovely episode all around.

Anyone else laugh when (I'm terrible with certain names on this show so excuse me while I stumble through this) Egret? (the cute red head) got killed by that kid? That little head nod he did just made me chuckle, I mean I felt bad she died, but just the way the kid was so proud of himself and it's like, oh no you dope the one person on the bad guys side you should have avoided! So there was a dark humor chuckle to the whole thing before the sadness sunk in.

#912 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5554 posts) -

@gnomeonfire: It should be reasonably obvious what they'll end it on; though I guess there's 2 strong contenders. If they end it on what you suggest it'll be a glowing sign to everyone of the series' decline to coincide with all the lost good characters.

#913 Posted by TheHT (11385 posts) -

Great episode. Them giant archers don't fuck around.

Sad to lose the characters we did, but we all knew a bunch of folks were gonna die. They telegraphed what would happen to Ygritte pretty heavily this season, but it was still a nice send off. It's hard to hate on the kid because hey, she killed his pops and is also killing all the folks who took him in, aaaaaaaaand also she killed Pip. Poor Pip. At least Tarley manage to stick through to the end. Even took a Thenn out to boot! Was that the Thenn warg? Hard to tell what with them all being bald, pasty, and covered in sick tribal scars bro. Meh, I'll find out when I watch it again.

Felt pretty quick though. I guess The Battle of Blackwater had all of those Cersei scenes, and the drama behind the gate to break up the combat and add some structure, whereas this was just fight, fight, and fight some more. Unlike the last episode I'm excited to watch this one again. I watched the last one again and it was maybe even worse the second time. So many moments where my heart just sank into my stomache with dread for what was coming up.

But there was some great fights here. Alliser vs Tormund, Styr vs Jon. Would've been great to see Gren fight the giant, but that was still incredible to see after the fact. Great to see Edd takin charge and Slynt crappin his breeches. That fuckin massive scythe/anchor thing was gnarly as fuck. Seeing that was a real "ok maybe the Night's Watch knows what's up" moment. Also Ghost goin straight for the jugular. ATTABOY GHOST.

Bit disappointed we didn't see Mance, but like Jon said, it was a test of the Wall's defenses. We'll almost certainly see him next season, assuming this is the end of the Wall storyline for now. The way last week ended, I've a feeling we're in store for a double dose of "episode 9 a.k.a. the-episode-where-shit-happens".

Goddamnit though, Ygritte and Jon.

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/got14-1.gif

:(

Now the big question, should I watch the preview or go into the finale blind. Dunno if I can resist 30 seconds and speculation for a whole week.

#914 Posted by thebunnyhunter (1432 posts) -

@gnomeonfire said:

They better end episode 10 on Lady Stoneheart and not Daenerys again.

As a general warning, if you aren't already familiar with what this is spoiling, don't even look it up. The first time I heard that name, I figured it was just some new character I hadn't heard about from some distant family, and a fairly significant event was spoiled immediately by an image popping up when I typed it into google.

Yeah i googled it to get a general idea of who it was and got way more than i bargained for, but yeah it really should be that character. Then i figured i might as well spoil the rest of the character since i was already this far.

#915 Edited by Dr_Monocle (108 posts) -

They better end episode 10 on Lady Stoneheart and not Daenerys again.

I've been thinking that the first thing you said will be the absolute last thing that happens before the cut to black. Last five seconds or so. They haven't alluded to it though so, I dunno.

This episode was pretty rad overall. Very yell-y. I like that 360 pan of the courtyard and giant battles wow me pretty easily. I have had mixed feelings about this season, and overall I think it's the weakest so far. It's still good though. I'm a loooong way away from going "blech, I'm not watching this." Next episode is going to be pretty interesting.

#916 Posted by TheHT (11385 posts) -

I watched the preview. I don't regret it.

#917 Posted by LiquidPrince (15969 posts) -

This was amazing. Puts big movies who have attempted these sort of large scale fights to shame. Could be because you actually care about the characters, but I was on the edge of my seat. Fucking Thenn got it straight to the noggin... *spits on the ground* good riddance.

#918 Edited by EthanielRain (854 posts) -

Thought this episode was great, minus the soap opera moment between Jon & Ygritte(?).

#919 Posted by development (2372 posts) -

Scythe 10/10.

Everything else 5/10.

#920 Edited by Aegon (5661 posts) -

Behind the scenes of the battle:

Pretty cool seeing them practice together on the set.

Online
#921 Posted by LiquidPrince (15969 posts) -

#922 Posted by KoolAid (945 posts) -

@bushpusherr: I heard that spoiler like 2 seasons ago. At first I didn't believe it because it seemed too crazy to be real. Oh, how things have changed.

#923 Posted by crithon (3307 posts) -

stop the press, is that doug jones???? as the owl looking guy?

#924 Posted by AlKusanagi (925 posts) -

Y U breaking up the Bro-Force?!? Poor Gren and Pyp. Now there's only Ed to carry the torch.

#925 Posted by TheHT (11385 posts) -

That 360 pan around the battle is fantastic. Also, Tormund Giantsbane remains a fuckin boss; glad he's still around.

Fucking a bear, good god haha.

#926 Edited by Yummylee (21789 posts) -

Also, I presume Alliser is still alive right? Far as I could see he was cut pretty bad at the thigh or something but was then pulled off the battlefield by other crows. Surprised there wasn't a final scene between Jon and Alliser, showing them maybe even learning to... exhibit a bit of mutual respect and what have you.

EDIT: Also, I caved and did the google for Lady Stoneheart and god damn my impatience!.. Though I remember having a hunch before hand anyway from some other comments posted elsewhere; may have even been in this thread. Still, I'm at least now really excited for when that character's story starts'a rolling. Sounds like it's sure to be fun times for all!..

#927 Posted by Fattony12000 (7460 posts) -

Great episode.

#928 Posted by crithon (3307 posts) -

that was better then I expected.... after the Oberyn fight I honestly came in bitter and cynical. But man was surprised over the skill Neil Marshall has directing combat. I still find John Snow boring then a pair of slacks but damned am I impressed with just scenes really playing out to show some clever effects and gags. It's really a simple concept for an episode that worked well with just skilled execution. I tend to find castle black boring in the past 4 seasons this was worth it.

#929 Posted by TheHT (11385 posts) -

I really appreciated the scene where they showed the cooks killing wildlings with a pot and big ol meat cleaver.

I think I mentioned this already, but it was also nice to see Dolorous Edd in a leadership role. Would be cool if some point down the line he found himself in a position more like that.

But Grenn dude. That scene where he's rallying his men by reciting their vows gave me chills. Fuckin hell, E3 starts in like 7 hours.

#930 Posted by Ares42 (2691 posts) -

Even though I've never been the biggest fan of Jon Snow and his storyline I'd say this was probably the best episode in a long time purely because it felt like an episode and not a clip-show. While I haven't read the books I'm assuming this is more akin to how the story is told there, big chunks of single story-lines instead of a mish-mash. And if it works there, why not for the show ?

#931 Posted by Dasacant2 (233 posts) -

@ares42 said:

Even though I've never been the biggest fan of Jon Snow and his storyline I'd say this was probably the best episode in a long time purely because it felt like an episode and not a clip-show. While I haven't read the books I'm assuming this is more akin to how the story is told there, big chunks of single story-lines instead of a mish-mash. And if it works there, why not for the show ?

Actually the books are kind of like the show in this regard. It might be little more jumpy on tv but I suppose it's inevitable when you have so many different characters and only 10 hours a season.

#932 Posted by Roboculus92 (520 posts) -

Scythe 10/10.

Everything else 5/10.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. If only I gave a damn about any of the characters at the Wall then maybe it would have resonated more with me. Ah well, at least it is more interesting than any of the stuff involving Daenerys.

#933 Posted by Ravelle (1297 posts) -

@ares42 said:

Even though I've never been the biggest fan of Jon Snow and his storyline I'd say this was probably the best episode in a long time purely because it felt like an episode and not a clip-show. While I haven't read the books I'm assuming this is more akin to how the story is told there, big chunks of single story-lines instead of a mish-mash. And if it works there, why not for the show ?

Actually the books are kind of like the show in this regard. It might be little more jumpy on tv but I suppose it's inevitable when you have so many different characters and only 10 hours a season.

Is it because of budget limits that it's only 10 episodes a season? They could flesh it out way more and focus on one or two characters per episode.

#934 Edited by Aegon (5661 posts) -

I totally see why TV watchers might have a problem caring about Jon, but I feel the book does a better job of making the wall and beyond and Jon's adventures within interesting and at times mysterious / thrilling. So the episode definitely had a bigger impact for me since I actually care about these characters.

I think many of those who've read the books and discuss theories would agree that (don't look at the following if you haven't read the books plz. It's not an explicit spoiler, but it could lead you down a spoilery road) Jon is a very important character. If not the most important.

Online
#935 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2605 posts) -

People complaining about "The Watchers on the Wall" because they don't enjoy an entire 1/3 of the characters and plot are hilarious.

"This episode sucked cause The Wall is boring."

Incredible episode, nailed everything it needed to with some amazing action and insane 1v1 combat. I couldn't be more excited for the finale, this episode set everything up perfectly.

#936 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2605 posts) -

@ravelle said:

@dasacant2 said:

@ares42 said:

Even though I've never been the biggest fan of Jon Snow and his storyline I'd say this was probably the best episode in a long time purely because it felt like an episode and not a clip-show. While I haven't read the books I'm assuming this is more akin to how the story is told there, big chunks of single story-lines instead of a mish-mash. And if it works there, why not for the show ?

Actually the books are kind of like the show in this regard. It might be little more jumpy on tv but I suppose it's inevitable when you have so many different characters and only 10 hours a season.

Is it because of budget limits that it's only 10 episodes a season? They could flesh it out way more and focus on one or two characters per episode.

It's an artistic choice they said they wanted 10 episode seasons from the very start.

#937 Posted by stryker1121 (1465 posts) -

Any chance the guy who was hit by the giant arrow, propelled 600 feet off the wall, then landed on a spike sticking out of the ground is still alive? (SPOILERS) That's going to be next week's big reveal!

#938 Edited by The_Patriarch (279 posts) -

@ravelle said:

@dasacant2 said:

@ares42 said:

Even though I've never been the biggest fan of Jon Snow and his storyline I'd say this was probably the best episode in a long time purely because it felt like an episode and not a clip-show. While I haven't read the books I'm assuming this is more akin to how the story is told there, big chunks of single story-lines instead of a mish-mash. And if it works there, why not for the show ?

Actually the books are kind of like the show in this regard. It might be little more jumpy on tv but I suppose it's inevitable when you have so many different characters and only 10 hours a season.

Is it because of budget limits that it's only 10 episodes a season? They could flesh it out way more and focus on one or two characters per episode.

It's an artistic choice they said they wanted 10 episode seasons from the very start.

... fueled by the fact that if they were to do more episodes, their budget would be stretched even thinner.

#939 Edited by Ravelle (1297 posts) -

@stryker1121 said:

Any chance the guy who was hit by the giant arrow, propelled 600 feet off the wall, then landed on a spike sticking out of the ground is still alive? (SPOILERS) That's going to be next week's big reveal!

He didn't land on a spike, that spike was the arrow, the chance surviving being torpedo's by an arrow the size of a spear is very unlikely.

#940 Edited by A_E_Martin (251 posts) -

Has anyone heard if Telltale are going to be showing their Game of Thrones game at E3? Their first season is still supposed to be starting this year, right?

#941 Posted by Zelyre (1209 posts) -

I don't really know who I am anymore.

In theory, I should have loved an hour long battle scene. The FX shots were great. The combat was great. The sense of scale was great.

After a half hour, I was wondering when it'd cut over to a different character.

I also feel bad for any TV show that ever tries to do an epic battle after this episode. The bar was raised, then raised, then raised again with this week's episode.

#942 Edited by Feels (80 posts) -

Looks like I'm in the minority regarding how I feel towards not only this episode, but the season in general.

To start, I was a big fan of last night's hour. I thought the intro was a nice kick-off, with a genuinely touching exchange between Sam and Maester Aemon. All the little conversations between the characters prior to the battle helped set the mood for what was to come. The battle itself was top-shelf as far as TV-based action translates and I loved the whole atmosphere of it. Being set against the night with the blacks and dark blues lit by the yellow and orange of the torches/arrows created a great ambiance. The whole thing gave me a Helm's Deep vibe and so the added LoTR nostalgia was appreciated. It also helps that I find Jon Snow and the Night's Watch to be one of the more interesting arcs in the show, so giving up the narrative of everything else for the battle was fine by me. I definitely understand where some people would be upset though. An hour-long character segment where you're not particularly interested in the character must be disappointing. For me that'd be like an entire episode directly focused on Stannis. Having not the read the books and going only off of the show, that dude's a bore.

As for the season itself, my general takeaway from opinions online is that people find it lacking, or at least in comparison to older seasons which I find crazy. Having recently watched the first season again, I was surprised at how good it was and so maybe re-watching the second and third will give me some more appreciation, but man -- the pace of both season two and three was such a slow burn from what I remember. So much so that only the last two or three episodes felt meaningful, with so much crazy shit happening that everything before it, despite being the set-up, felt meaningless. I guess it's the pace I didn't like, but again, maybe I just have to re-watch both seasons. By contrast, the pace throughout season four has been terrific, with said crazy shit happening as early as the second episode with Joffrey's death.

That being said, I'm pumped for the finale next week. There's just so much stuff to wrap up it's hard not to be. Having ruined Lady Stoneheart for myself prior to season four even airing, I feel that if the show ends on this reveal that there'll be a lot of good anticipation built up for the next season, which will make waiting another year that much harder. =(

#943 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Watching this episode has been the perfect lead-in to E3 2014. Loved every second of it. I'm hyped. Now I'm off on a beer run, see y'all on stage in an hour!

#944 Posted by Cerberus3Dog (339 posts) -

Dug that fact that there were no transitions to the other parts of Westeros. Allowed me to become invested in the dire situation the crows were going through. Felt really satisfied with how they showed the siege of Castle Black.

#945 Edited by Zevvion (1908 posts) -

I really liked this episode. I thought it was fantastic. Partially helped that Jon was the only out of 3 character stories that I still care about. Also, if they are going to kill Jon in the next episode or something I might just quit watching the show eventually. Besides him, there is only Ariya and Therion that I care about. Therion is apparently going to die and they barely spend any time on Ariya's story. It also develops rather slowly.

#946 Posted by development (2372 posts) -

@development said:

Scythe 10/10.

Everything else 5/10.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. If only I gave a damn about any of the characters at the Wall then maybe it would have resonated more with me. Ah well, at least it is more interesting than any of the stuff involving Daenerys.

Yep totally. I could care less (<--the sarcastic variation of the phrase for all you misguided pedants) about any of the characters on the wall. Considering that, they did an alright job keeping me interested. Ygritte part was just dumb, though.

#947 Posted by ripelivejam (4079 posts) -

dolorous edd is dull as dishwater and that makes me sad :(

#948 Posted by Marcsman (3209 posts) -

Donal Roye should not have been excluded. A one armed smith fighting the king of the giants. Come on now.

#949 Edited by dancinginfernal (475 posts) -

@marcsman,@feels:

Mark your freaking spoilers duders, Jesus. How many more mods have to lay down the law in this thread before you guys listen?

#950 Posted by Marcsman (3209 posts) -

@dancinginfernal: It was blocked spoiler first of all. And he was not even cast or mentioned on the show. Cannot see how it is a spoiler.