Game Of Thrones Season 7 Discussion Thread (Spoilers up to and including the latest episode!)

@afabs515: I don't think you are right. The purpose of Arya's story was that she thought she wanted to be no one, but in the end she realized she is Arya Stark and is driven by the desires of Arya Stark: being a warrior, killing her enemies. I don't think she is a sociopath who wants to murder her sister for no reason other than being a sociopath. I'm not sure where you got that from. She did leave the Frey girls alive because they weren't on her list. She isn't a mass murderer who takes joy in it, she kills the people that deserve it to which they didn't belong. She didn't kill the Lannister soldiers because she didn't deem them in need of being killed.

She always only cared for Jon and to a lesser extend Brann and Robb. She always hated Sansa. Her reactions to Sansa aren't based on her being cold, it is based on Sansa's actions.

The point of the Lannister campfire scene was to humanize the soldiers and show that they're people with families/love/goals too - not just evil scum. Arya did empathize with them, which is why she didn't kill them. I think Arya was having fun fighting, not dominating, even after the kick. In a real fight Brienne would've won since Arya was laying flat on the ground after the gut kick. Arya only needed to save 2 or 3 of the Frey women to tell the story, not all of them if that was really her only reason. I wouldn't mind Sansa dying, but I think she's the safest character in the whole story - her, Sam, then Tyrion.

@deathstriker: I agree with you on everything related to Arya (except I think she can best Brienne), but why do you think Sansa is the most safe of being killed off than any other character? I don't see a reason why Sansa cannot die for the story to reach a conclusion. Same for Tyrion.

The only one that can't die (permanently), at least not until the fighting with the dead is (almost) won, is Jon and arguably Bran. Even Daenerys can die sometime after the war has started, since Jon can likely gain the trust of the dragons and will likely have the loyalty of her armies once they see the dead. Not to mention if they see their queen killed by them, it will only make her a martyr and reinforce dedication to Jon. To me it seems clear there will be a stand off between Jon and the Night King. Not anyone else. I don't really see what role Sansa has in the story that matters.

I think Sam and Tyrion are safe (probably more safe in the books) because they're extensions of GRRM himself and the story doesn't need them to die. I think Sansa is safe since she's the last Stark on some level. Bran and Arya are probably never going to get married or have kids. Bran has no interest and possibly physically can't. Arya has no interest in guys besides maybe Gendry. Jon is really a Targ, not a Stark. So if Sansa dies there aren't anymore Starks (if she marries someone from an equal or lesser house she can keep her name like Cersei did) and she could make it so the kids get her name if the guy is from a lesser house. Story wise, I see no point in Sansa dying. Jon might die fighting white walkers or somehow turn into one, Dany might die the same way or from Cersei assassinating her, Cersei will probably die from Jamie killing her, Jamie might commit suicide directly or indirectly after that, and so on. I see a way and reason for everyone to die to besides Sansa (even though I don't like her). White walkers aren't going to kill her, Littlefinger won't, and I doubt Cersei can get her, so who would kill Sansa? Plus, I think they might handle her with kid gloves since there was so much push back from her getting raped.

@deathstriker:

@zevvion: This is just speculation so I'll leave it untagged. I wasn't saying anyone was 100% safe, I just think Sansa, Sam, and Tyrion are the safest and I was talking about the whole series, not just this season. I don't see Jon becoming a wight, I see him having to make a sacrifice and somehow being turned into a white walker, possibly the new Night King and leading them back north, away from humans. Similar to the blue or control ending in Mass Effect 3. That or he dies fighting them. Jon and Cersei surviving would be the most surprising to me. Dany could die and Jon inherit her armies/dragons especially if that's after they find out his true background, or (less likely) because he's the most friendly ruler to her. I think the writers had Tyrion bring up succession for a reason.

The series is not about the living vs. the dead to me, it's more about human's greed as well as need for power and will they rise above it and work together to stop a massive threat. The threat could've been vampires, lava monsters, global warming, or whatever else. From a storytelling point of view the Stark bloodline not continuing wouldn't be satisfying and Sansa & Arya are the only ones that can keep it going. Jon might be undead on some level and unable to have kids, plus he'll be with Dany soon who can't have kids, and he's not a Stark - it goes by the dad unless the mom is from a much bigger house. That would be like calling Robb, Bran, Arya, etc Tullys. Also, I think Jon dying, or being turned into a walker, or having to focus on the iron throne after Dany dies (or if they get married) might mean he leaves the north to Sansa. He doesn't seem interested enough in ruling to do it after the white walker threat is over if he's still alive at the end of the series.

Hey everybody that resisted the urge and hasn't seen episode six, it's show day!

(I forgive you if you couldn't.)

Outside of our friends with the giant spoiler blocks, what are you looking forward to this week? I've got to know how this Magnificent Seven crew resolves probably the craziest (and potentially the dumbest) plan the show's ever put forward. Capture a zombie, don't get killed by the other zombies, hope nothing happens to you or the zombie during the trek to wherever this queen meetup is going to be, and hope that the zombie impresses a crazy person who, by the way, already has her own zombie as her Lord Commander of the Queensguard.

Good luck!

Game of Deus Ex Machina

Everything with the suicide squad was great, although it felt kinda cheap for the Night King to kill the further away flying dragon instead of the stationary close-by Drogon with people climbing onto it.
And it was really convenient for all the wights except for one to die when they killed the White Walker. Goodbye Benjen I hardly knew ye, due to circumstances you seemed to have been rushed out of the show. Also now that Thoros is dead can I get his sword?

I'm hoping everything Arya & Sansa is a trap for Littlefinger, otherwise the whole thing (especially Arya) is just the worst this episode. Although points to Arya for pulling off creepy way better than Bran. Finally Dany continues to annoy in any scene she's not on Drogon and being a bad-ass. And boy are they pushing her romance with Jon with no subtlety whatsoever.

First truly great episode of the season, ignoring the false drama at Winterfell, too much camera time for priest guy; RIP. More minor characters dying (including a dragon). Cool setup for the next one, guess Winterfell drama will resolve as expected and thus the writing is on the wall for everything happening in an even more predictable fashion. Gendry a glorified squire for the Hound. Daenerys' Jesus route rather obvious now.

@aktivity: After all is said and done, the one true romance will be between a man and his aunt. Game of Thrones couldn't have had it any other way.

I don't know how people put this show up there as one of the greatest of all times. I'm sorry, but it is pure pulp. Nothing about it is subtle. All of the writing is so on the nose. None of the characters have real depth, and now the plot is off the rails.

@flasaltine: It's a fantasy show that doesn't suck, that's an achievement in and of itself. Spinoffs are probably going to be dreadful though.

Sure, I enjoy it, but that is about it.

When the genre is fantasy, that's kind of what you expect. The plotting is getting a little crazy though. Zombie Island, Gendry sprinting, and text messaging fast ravens are pretty dumb. Having said that the show is still good.

I truly appreciate that the show isn't so self-serious now, but man the Arya and Sansa stuff is really, really bad.

That was a fun episode, I don't how everyone else feels but I love how they are just letting it loose for what looks like these last two seasons. The time jump stuff doesn't bother me too much, it hasn't through this entire season but something tells me with what they've done they could have filled out a whole 10 episode arc this year. Maybe the goal of these final two seasons was to just be going as much as possible, thus justifying the time gaps but still, sucks that next week it's already over. Although, if the reasoning is they gave them a larger effects budget for seven episodes instead of ten Im good with that. I was rewatching the older episodes and holy fuck is this season just top notch with the SFX. Comparing the arena dragon fight from season 5 to this episode is almost hilarious, those dragons look fucking good this year and everything else sure does too.

I am a little bummed, however, about the ex machina reveal we got tonight. I was really hoping we would just get a straight up fight with the White Walkers next year, no tricks or games, just a brutal fucking fight between all the forces of the dead and Westeros. Hell, it being Game of Thrones and all I wouldn't be surprised if all the "good guys (and bad)" lost and the dead reigned over Westeros for all of time. However, they have now set it up for a huge series finale fight that will most likely end in many characters dying but Jon killing the Knight King with his final dying breath and banishing all the dead back to Hell. I hope I'm wrong about that though.

Tonight was badass though, I fully expect to see some Skyrim Ice Dragon shit next season, perhaps even a small taste next week.

Haha holy shit, I called that zombie dragon like five pages ago! Now we're talking!

Whatever the show is losing in subtlety and pacing, it's picking up in enjoyment. I am beyond ready for dragon v zombie dragon aerial combat, Arya peeling Sansa like a potato, Cleganebowl, just fucking all of it. Everything's gone off the rails, people are popping up for five seconds only to be killed off, but at least we're going out with a bang.

The Hound gets the award for being the biggest dweeb this episode.

First he goes catatonic because the zombie bear is on fire getting Thoros mauled and killed. Don't worry, he's only one of two people in the world capable of bringing people back from the dead.

Then he doesn't even think to use Gendry's hammer to keep the ice broken up overnight. Why did you take it from him if you weren't going to use it properly? It's a hammer! It's for smashing!

Finally, he decides to test the ice's stability for the wights and let them know it's safe to come running across.

For these reasons, The Hound, you are this episode's Biggest Dweeb.

Oh my god yes, I know Arya became an assassin, but did she have to become a complete douche? The conflict between them is so contrived.

Ugh, this episode was straight trash. It's so obvious that they are trying to manufacture action because television, and so all of the characters are making nonsensical, out-of-character decisions in order to faciliate that trend. This entire battle made no sense. From Jon deciding to attack 10,000 dead people with 7 friends. To the White Walkers and dead having zero ranged attacks. To Gendry being able to run to Eastwatch and send a raven to dragonstone, and having Dany fly all the way up to the wall in like, 6 hours combined. To Dany attacking the army of the dead instead of the Night King. To the White Walkers throwing spears at the flying dragon instead of the stationary one 30 feet in front of them. To the army of the dead pulling chains out of their asses to carry the dead dragon.

It's abundantly clear that after they had written episode 4, B&W had a writer's meeting for the rest of the season where they decided that they needed to end the season with a big battle and a dead dragon. And then they had to figure out how to get there at all costs.

@sackmanjones: Blue-Eyes Wight Dragon

I thoroughly enjoy almost every episode, and then choose to come to this thread on Giant Bomb, knowing that the vast majority will some how want to shit on it. You have not disappointed.

• Jon wasn't intending to attack 10,000 dead people. They were trying to find a dead one separated from the pack and try and kidnap it away.
• The entire trip out to wherever the dead were took roughly half a day based on the establishing shots of the mountains, and they were all walking. Gendry ran the entire way back and got to the wall as night fell, and it wasn't even until the next day that Dany got to them.
• The army of the dead was literally about to strangle the group, so she burned the immediate threat. Plus I doubt she would even know who the Night King even was. She also wouldn't know that attacking the Night King would do anything specific to the rest of the army. That was a revelation that Jon had just come to earlier in the episode.

Just wanted to note a thought or two. First, I saw this Zombie Dragon thing from like 3 seasons away. It just seemed inevitable. We'll see how cool it ends up being.

Second, the whole Arya/Sansa/Little Finger thing has been so dumb and bad, until I re-contextualized the scene with Arya and Sansa in the bedroom and Arya being creepy. I think the weird significance of that was essentially Arya saying, I can be whomever the situation calls for, let me be your weapon. Symbolized by her giving Sansa the dagger? It's a little odd but I feel better about the scene. Because it seems like Little Finger might get whats coming to him finally.. and god I bet it's going to be glorious.

Same with the Bran weirdness. Not sure where I read the opinion, but it was the only thing that made any semblance of sense to me. Bran is essentially numb to everything and everyone now, because he can see what has happened to people and.. what will come to pass? Yet, he is aware of what must happen to reach the final "best" ending to this and therefore cannot screw up the series of events by warning people about every little thing. It's a whole time paradox thing I guess? Like if he were to tell Arya to kill Little Finger ASAP, would the series of events still play out that way or would her knowledge of something cause some sort of ripple of events and then they wouldn't go as expected, perhaps allowing Little Finger to wise up and run. So Bran has to do things subtly like casually handing Arya the dagger, as if he knows she is going to need it for a very specific purpose in the future.

Its silly but I also like inner struggles like that. That you can't save everyones life, so you have to pick and choose, and the burden that comes with that.

Please explain to me how the Night king can throw an ice spear 200 yards into the air and hit a flying dragon but he can't do hit Jon while he's sleeping in the middle of that lake? Or how the army of the dead swam into the water and attached a chain to that dead dragon to drag it out of the water, desite the fact that they apparently drown as soon as they enter the water? It's plot hole central. It's my opinion that this episode was poorly written. This is an opinion which is shared by a lot of people. In fact, it's being pretty much universally panned by critics. Feel free to disagree, but don't be condescending about it.

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2017/8/20/16170748/season-7-episode-6-recap-beyond-the-wall

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/game-of-thrones-has-truly-stopped-making-sense/1100-6452687/

http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/game-of-thrones-recap-beyond-the-wall-review/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/08/20/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-6-review-the-not-so-magnificent-seven/#14c58da04840

https://twitter.com/garywhitta/status/899504341983182848

https://twitter.com/DanStapleton/status/899455796471148544

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/899453549523984386

This show feels like straight up fan fiction now. Even the basic writing and dialogue has taken such a nosedive.

I do like that Thoros basically drank himself to death by accelerating his hypothermia. At least, I assume that's what got him based on what the Hound said.

Also, this is minor, but if you're going to have characters talking about how cold it is and draw attention to it, at least have them wear some goddamn hats. Only Gendry and the red shirts bothered with headgear on their blizzard expedition. Again, I get why it is the way it is, you've got to show off those actor's faces, but still.

Also, Gendry running and getting a raven out so Arctic Assault Daenerys can get to them before water can freeze in the coldest place on earth is easily the worst this show's been about it's distance and travel stuff. The rest of the time it's been somewhat excusable since the passage of time is vague, but here there was a clear time pressure.

The Arya vs Sansa stuff just feels so forced. I can kind of understand the premise of it, Sansa has done a lot of questionable, stupid stuff, and Arya could have enough reason to be suspicious, but she shouldn't be acting like fucking Jigsaw. It feels like a plausible idea that's been botched super hard.

So with the revelation that killing the night king will destroy all the zombies, this show is totally going to have a Phantom Menace ending isn't it? I mean, the night king is basically a blue Darth Maul.

EDIT: Also forgot that Daenerys continues to be the most insufferable, self righteous asshole possible. I'm amazed she even has advisors for how often she aggressively disagrees with them, and it's even more surprising she has any followers when this is how she acts. Oh, someone said I'm easily angered and impulsive, better angrily deny it while yet again accusing my closest advisor of colluding with the enemy and wanting me dead.

I've wanted to see Dragons versus Ice Zombies for a while. Check.
I've wanted a Zombie Dragon so the Dragons have to fight each other at some point. Check.

It wasn't a perfect episode, this whole Arya vs Sansa thing is dumb, but I assume it will resolve well enough so whatever.
And let's be honest, if this was like the original few seasons, someone else would have died tonight, the plot armor has been strong this season, but yet, I didn't want them to die. Sooooooo fine.

I feel like the show sort of switched gears, and I'm fine with that, the first few seasons were "Look at how smart we are, and also we are going to promise you cool shit, but never give it to you."
Now it is "Look at all this cool shit we promised you! Also lots of somewhat dumb stuff now." They didn't master both at the same time, but they mastered both separately. So now we are in the 'wasn't that fucking rad?' phase and yes.
Despite all that, it's still smarter than a shit load of other shows anyways, sooo pffff.

Someone with visual effects skills are going to have to put the Dark Souls hud over the scenes where the fire guys light up their swords.

I do disagree, and I wasn't being condescending. Unless you some how find being replied to in point form condescending. The Night King clearly has plans for Jon, as was established during the battle of Hardhome, when they lovingly gazed into each others eyes.

As for the ridiculous nit picky nonsense that people are claiming about the chain, A. who cares?, and B. if you do care, it's not hard to imagine what happened there. Do you think the Night King would care about sacrificing some of his dead in order to retrieve the dragon? He could have had some of his dead hold the ends of the chain and jump into the water and tie up the dragon when they hit the ground, whilst the remaining dead above ground pulled the dragon back up, leaving the under water ones there to "live" eternally.

But again, who cares? This is exactly the kind of nonsense you would expect from the internet knowing that the show is now farther then the books. Everyone is looking to be a critic and nit pic the absolute dumbest shit, because this is clearly not GRRM's writing right? Even though for all we know, this plot point was given to the executives directly from GRRM. This point in a shows life cycle is the worst. It's happening in Rick and Morty as well, with all the hipsters rollig out trying to claim that they liked Rick and Morty before it was cool and how season 1 and 2 were better... blah blah.

@liquidprince: If you can't see the recklessness and blatant stupidity behind Jon's plan, I don't know what to tell you.

Jon just ventured miles beyond the wall with a handful of people. In the process, he got Thoros killed, a dragon killed, a bunch of randos killed. He also nearly got himself killed and Dany killed. Why did he do that? What was the big prize he was after? He wanted a wight to show to Cersei-- despite the fact that he has zero reason to think she will care, and in fact, Tyrion is fully aware that she won't care.

But okay, let's indulge him. You want a wight? I've got a better idea: Maybe before you go venturing off into a near certain death, try taking a dead body from SOUTH OF THE WALL, chain it up in the Castle Black dungeons (or, if necessary, ten feet beyond the wall) and wait for it to be reanimated? It's not exactly like there is a shortage of dead people in this world.

I don't care who wrote it. I actually happen to think that, generally speaking, B&W have done a better job of writing the story than GRRM did. But this episode was total garbage.

Well firstly, it was Tyrion's plan, not Jon's. Secondly, it's not like they have the luxury of time to come up with some fantastically intricate plan. It's a war on two sides, between three factions and only one of those factions even knows about the third faction. You kind of have to act quickly, and like I said Jon was only intending on trying to catch one dead beast, not fight the army.

@nevergameover: I wouldn't say garbage, but it was very contrived. Spoils of War was the climax this season, when it was supposed to be this episode.

I don't see the problem with getting a chain around the dead dragon. Who says white walkers can't swim. Ice and water are intertwined, so if they can control ice yet walk through fire but are afraid or weak to water that sounds pretty silly. I like this season but this episode was a letdown.

I do think getting the wight will have some payoff, or else that would be even worse writing. I could see Cersei losing support from nobles if she doesn't take the undead serious. Jon being a leader under Dany sounds super lame and boring to me, probably the biggest problem tonight that will affect the future to me.

Maybe I was just in a vastly better mood this week from where we were last week but..I loved this episode. It had everything I actually want from the show. Slow moments of 1 on 1 character intereaction which, aside from the Dany-Jon relationship which I just do not buy in almost any sense. I got...1 maybe 2 shots of Dany looking legit concerned, and Jon is just...well I always thought the character in the books was boring and cardboard and uninteresting, and the actors done a decent job keeping him in line with my thoughts.

But everything else? Everything else was pretty good. If we assume that the army of the dead is, at most, a days march outside the wall (which is stupid, but at this point I give up caring about distance) Then Gendry dead-sprinting the distance they had taken a day to walk, and collasping right at the gate makes complete sense. I said last week if I didn't get a damn good reason to explain dany's dragon-ride to save the day I'd quit..but I got it. We had about 12 hours from "Gendry reaches the wall" to "dany makes it". Yeah, the undead just letting them sit there all night was silly, but again, details. I totally buy that, by flight, you can make it from the wall to Dany in 6-8 hours. And we have absolutely no clue how fast or far dragons can fly, so I can hand wave "They are dragons, they fly as fast as magic lets them". They breath fire and are fantasy creatures, I don't need dragons making real-world sense.

The 'oh no jons dead!" was a little forced, since if you were at all aware that this was the last chance he had to ever see his uncle, at some point he would show up. And if the distance between 'lake battle site" and "east watch wall entrance" can be sprinted at a dead-run in a few hours on foot, I totally believe Jon could ride his way there between when the dragons get back, and they give up waiting on him. (Now beliving that Dany would stand there waiting for him I don't buy).

The stuff beyond the wall was all pretty bloody great though. The fights were cool (the show does that at least well pretty much 100%) and the little character moments were just great. Yeah, its fan-fiction for Jon to offer to sword and then have it handed back, yes its fan-fiction for our big bearded wildling to straight up brag about wanting to get with the big bad ass female knight (I can't spell their names, so I am using titles, sue me). About the only thing I was a bit confused by was...only the red priest died, and then via frostbite. I swear the undead killed a few people on screen at the very end...but everyone I actually kinda hoped might not die (aside from the eye-patch dude) survived. So..who the heck were those people who died?! (I admit I might just have missed it).

I will admit, the stuff at winterfell seems absolutely superfluous. I mean clearly, all the armies of the south are gonna march north and winterfell is gonna be the sight of the big final battle (cause I would bet some money, without knowing its happening so this is a guess/speculation not a spoiler, that the last shot of this season after whatever twist happens with Cersei and company, we will see the wall come down and/or be breached in some way to close out the season and set us up for the last.

That said, I could wildly speculate about what the other twist in the show will be, but now that Dany's seen the night king, and Jon's sworn fealty to her, it would be real simple to wrap up the Iron Throne queen vs queen stuff by simply offing Cersei in the next episode. Also..maybe we actually do get Clecanebowl in this season like was rumored way early on but seemed hard to swallow given the hound went north not south? And maybe Jamie doesn't die (best character-arch this whole season) and maybe....

I will say, a lot of the issues I had with the show could have been solved if they had a full 10 episodes. As it really does seem like a lot of the stuff people are complaining about could have just been solved by slowing things down over ,say, 3 more episodes? I get why they did it, bigger budgets per episode, still. The season's ending I think on a high note, so thankfully there is that.

You've got to see how they put the lake sequence together. It's completely insane:

They flattened out an entire quarry with concrete, dressed it to look like ice, built separate rigs to have actors fall through, recreated their Iceland location, canyon walls and all, and have to dump bags of snow on it every day to match. The shit they have the actors do is so far removed from what we get to see ("I'll come towards you, I'm a bear." "No you're not, your name's Toby.") that I can understand why someone like Ian Mckellen reportedly broke down on the set of The Hobbit, complaining that this wasn't even acting any more. We crap on some of the main characters, and sometimes it's justified (dialog scenes between two people especially), but I've started to become a bit amazed that it all doesn't wind up as a hilarious, disjointed mess.

Some of the writing might be sub-par or head scratching, but the spectacle is undeniable to me.

The Arya-Sansa storyline is a complete waste of time, and just acting out as a plot-filler this season - basically showing that Sansa and Arya are kind of worthless to the overall plot. Bran will problably show up next episode telling what's what because he the Three-Eyed Raven and knows everything. Then Arya off's Littlefinger as a big 'shocker' this season finale. I bet Cersei will turn scum-queen, and plan to sandwich the northern armies while they are fighting the WW. Then we'll have our silly Cleganebowl.

I thought it was the best episode so far this season. The extra run time helped. They completed a full story without a terrible cliffhanger. The Sansa and Arya stuff was somehow even worse than the last episode of course. I'm hoping Litlefinger's big play happens in the next episode or all this will really be for nothing. I think the books are pretty badly written after the third one so I'm enjoying the show doing its own thing. Fast flying ravens and fast magic dragons don't bother me so the timing stuff of this episode made sense to me. And the journey seemed more about the fact that Bran and the Hound had visions that this is where they had to go. It was cool for Jon to finally see his uncle. They may have lost a dragon to the other side but now Dany is 100% on board and that's the bigger win than convincing Cersei to join the cause.

I understand the plotholes and such with this episode, but holy shit was that a lot of fun. I was literally on the edge of my seat during the Lake battle. Even though the results were super predictable, it was still super tense

More importantly.. Tormund is STILL ALIVE and STILL has the best dialogue in the show

I would agree, since this season, perhaps also the last. But before that it was great. I still really enjoy the show, but the writing has certainly gone down hill. For example in this recent episode, if I were to say 'Aaaah! SAVE ME!' as a line and you had to guess which character of the show would never, ever utter those words, in your top 5 would be Tormund.

But they have ditched most of the character development and sometimes they even abandoned their personalities to have blank interchangeable templates that serve the scene they need to shoot.

I don't know if they needed the books to write off of or what, but the quality of the writing has changed significantly.

@gannerone I don't think so. I think they are trying to rush the dynamic between Arya and Sansa, for the sake of having that story told even if it is terrible. It will likely be very interesting in the books. I believe Arya will be important for the story.

This is the best take.

@mirado: That video was neat. Huge amount of professionalism and skill went to make those scenes look good. Meanwhile in the writing room "we should have zombie polar bear." Why? "Because it is cool."

The series has become more simplistic as they've gotten past the book material, but it's still one of the greats on TV or that has ever been on TV. If it's such a sub-par show can you name 15, even 10 shows that are far better than Game of Thrones (they can be past or present)? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm actually curious what they'd be. I disagree with whoever in here who said the showrunners are better writers than GRRM. They get to the point faster, but he's better at character development, twists, plotlines, and dialogue. It's gone down a little, but what show is its strongest after 7 or 8 years? Most show's primes are in the middle of its run and it's definitely not a nosedive like Dexter or Heroes.

The ultimate twist is that at the very end of episode 7, Gurm will step out on a stage into a single spotlight, pull out A Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring at the same time, toss them onto the ground, go "Here you are you starving dogs!" and walk off.

@mirado: That was a fun watch. I haven't watched anything on the making of The Hobbit but this at least seemed to be less of a CGI infused mess and there was more physicality to it; I may be wrong though.

I think this show is really suffering from its own imposed deadline. Also the writing isn't that great now they are doing their own. And these year long breaks to break up one season are nonsense.

I didn't really get why Jon felt the need to stay and fight for so long. Like initially it seemed like he was just trying to make sure everyone else got on the dragon...but then he kept fighting. I guess it was supposed to be adrenaline or some sort of combat high or something? Even if somehow the point was supposed to be Jon is trying to reach the NIght King, surely he couldn't have been stupid enough to think he would make it. It seemed uncharacteristically reckless of him given everything he's been through.

It really felt like they went "okay, we need Danny to lose one of her dragons and we need to kick this romance into high gear" and they worked backwards from that. i dunno that whole thing just seemed super weird to me.

Then there's the whole Arya and Sansa thing. I've given it some thought and it's not just that I would hope both of them would be smarter by now that's bumming me out. It's the fact that the show has been hellbent on driving home the point this is all part of Littlefinger's plan that's making those scenes hard to watch. We're not quite sure what his end goal is so there's a bit of mystery there, but we have the knowledge that this conflict is a part of it and it's frustrating because we're watching two characters we love slowly walk into what we already know is a trap.

I'm still hoping that this is all a very elaborate act they're putting on to fool Littlefinger, but I've been disappointed before.

@babychoochoo

My opinion on the Arya/ Sansa thing at this point is that they are both playing Littlefinger. I think they've had experiences to make both of them extremely cunning. Sansa has openly admitted that she does not trust him. I think they are trying to send away everyone but them so he can't manipulate anyone.

Sansa wont kill someone, but Arya will. Sansa's biggest worry is that Littlefinger can command the Knights of the Vale..Arya could do it too with his face.

I was warming to this season, but man the writing in this episode was just terrible. I don`t think there was actually a single moment in the episode I actually enjoyed because it had good or sensible storytelling. The spectacle and acting is still great and it definitely had some enjoyable moments, but I found it super disappointing. I guess dumb action and deus ex machina moments are what we can expect going forward.

While it`s pulp now it didn`t use to be though. The first four-five seasons had some truly great writing and storytelling. Characters had a lot of depth. They made choices that made sense for them to make and their actions had consequences. It used to be one of the smartest and most intriguing shows on television. Now it`s Zombies vs Dragons: The show and I guess that`s fine, but I do really miss those earlier seasons (and I really want to read Winds of Winter).

Her telling Sansa about the faces, and then handing her the knife is what I took that to mean. But that might be giving the writers too much credit.

Because the story dictated that they needed to be held up.

There is some real bad writing, predictable Hollywood-psyche outs, continuity errors and missed character development in this particular episode. It looked nice though, that's for sure. The blades of fire were really cool, like a bunch of Super Saiyans.

I hope they will do better character exposition in season 8 and really take a hard look at the criticism of their nonsensical story telling at times, because there is no reason that stuff needs to be in here.

@liquidprince: as a third party, the "i expected people to talk shit and you didnt dissapoint" WAS condescending.

lol I mean I get that but I was wondering what, if anything, they wanted us to think while watching that scene or we just supposed to not think about it? I even checked out a few reaction videos and people seemed just as confused and angry as I was that Jon stayed for so long.

if Jon had gotten on and they left a few seconds earlier, in theory, Dany would still have all three dragons, which in turn means the Night King would have zero, and uncle Benjen wouldn't have had to die (they clearly didn't know wtf else to do with his character).

I guess what I'm doing a poor job of getting at is that they couldn't think of anything else to hold them up? Like they could have easily gotten rid of that Tormund fakeout, have everyone run to the dragon when Dany shows up, put Jon in the rear, "oh no he gets grabbed," they hop off to grab him, and in the ensuing confusion, that's when one of the dragons gets killed.

I realize I'm once again probably making a mountain out of molehill, but I feel like that scene could have played out 100 different ways and they chose one of the worst options.