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#1 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
#2 Posted by Hizang (8532 posts) -

I don't know if you've noticed, iPhones are neat.

#3 Posted by scarace360 (4828 posts) -

I dont like apple but i have to admit they make some ok stuff better than alot of other stuff but still. Why do people think apple stuff is a status symbol.

#4 Edited by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
http://techland.time.com/2011/03/14/how-much-should-the-ipad-2-really-cost/

Disclaimer: This is my opinion
Read this, i don't mind apple hardwares or software, its not bad, nothing special imo, though it does look really nice. But i wish people would stop buying it so apple lowers their prices... i would feel stupid if i bought an apple product and i wasn't making 100k+ salary... i believe in living efficiently.  

Okay well mostly on the IPAD 2, APPLE has over 50 per cent gross margin(when you factor in the labor cost). Their overall margin is now 40 per cent, which is about 7 per cent higher than the industry they are in(which is already considered to be one of the highest). Not to mention that the profit margin is 22.36 per cent, 5 per cent higher than others. You can't even make the point that they are a generous company to their employees.  Just for comparison, lots of people think Dell is highly efficient, Dell makes a 5 per cnt profit margin. 

They had cooled down after some competition on the IPOD's pricing, i mean can you believe that they went from 4 gigs to 100? for the same price? I felt really ripped off there. 

Also this habit they have of not announcing things until its time for their release is a real pain, it destroys the moral of transparency, and imo ruins the consumer/provider trust. 

Apple is a great company, i admire their standardization processes, and their marketing but if this rate is kept for another 15ish years, they will have a monopoly and everything will be greatly overpriced, cost of living will go up for everyone, i wish people learned to punish companies. Apple can afford to sell things cheaper than Dell/HP/RImm. People are letting them get away with this.  
EDIT1:This is also a comprehensive analysis of their pc's overpricing:  http://geekdose.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/image33.png
EDIT2:Also i dno how many of you like Maddox, but i think he is hilarious, and since we are on apple heres his FUN TO READ  http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant article Edit3: This one  http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple_p2.html shows how forceful apple is with its software. They included safari in an itunes app... 
#5 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

I don't hate Apple but they do overprice their products and are incredibly pretentious.

I still love my MacBook though, I won it for free and it's great but it's definitely not worth the extra over an equivalent Windows laptop. No chance in hell.. *

Had an iPhone for almost two years and finally switched to Android too, much better OS at this point in time.

*by that I mean, similar or superior specs with a great battery, the battery is really the best thing about the MacBooks, well that and the amazing touchpad

#6 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
@Ygg
Yeah agreed, good products, but not worth the money, if we are talking about computers though, i could maybe understand someone who isn't tech savvy and if they get a pc they are going to be pirating or just browsing random(possibly harmful) sites, then maybe an apple computer is worth the money because you can probably make it last longer, but for everyone else... just no(i have a pc with no anti virus and i haven't had any infections in 4 years. 
#7 Posted by amir90 (2154 posts) -

I cannot really say that this is a good poll.
Make more options, or more info.

#8 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
@amir90
What kind of info? i posted something as a convo starter, but people beat me to the first post. 
#9 Posted by 71Ranchero (2739 posts) -

better question is why do people "hate" things they dont care for. Isnt it possible to not buy the products without trying to start some internet crusade about how rotten a company is for not tailoring a product to your needs? 

#10 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
@Atramentous
better question is why do people "hate" things they dont care for. Isnt it possible to not buy the products without trying to start some internet crusade about how rotten a company is for not tailoring a product to your needs? 

... maybe you didn't understand... i do care for it... i like the products, but its not well priced. UNless your making a general statement and not about this poll...
#11 Posted by amir90 (2154 posts) -
@gamefreak9: I reckon more info, which products, all of them?
Why are they considered overpriced?
Is it only for the music/graphic market, but not for average joe?

There is little to no info here, and this discussion has been discussed to death.
#12 Posted by ShiftyMagician (2129 posts) -

You know, a lot of forum users in general like to act immaturely, so obviously a lot of people will click C for their own amusement.

I get the point you are trying to make and I would have to say don't blame apple for exploiting idiots that purchase multiple iPads, iPods and iPhones just to look relevant to their peers. 

After seeing too many people fail to state any real use of their iPads instead of having them as an expensive Gizmo that a laptop would excel at and more, whilst having people be wowed by that air traffic controller game as if they were looking at a miracle, it is easy to be more disappointed at people than Apple.  It's not like no one has a good use for products like the iPad or iPhone, but most people really just get it to be fashionable and to just own something that makes them feel smart and modern.

#13 Posted by 71Ranchero (2739 posts) -
@gamefreak9 said:
@Atramentous
better question is why do people "hate" things they dont care for. Isnt it possible to not buy the products without trying to start some internet crusade about how rotten a company is for not tailoring a product to your needs? 

... maybe you didn't understand... i do care for it... i like the products, but its not well priced. UNless your making a general statement and not about this poll...
General. Sorry for the confusion. I also forgot to comment on the actual topic :P


I like my Ipod Touch. It is worth what I paid for it. I cant say that I would ever buy an Apple PC however. They aren't made for me.
#14 Posted by amir90 (2154 posts) -

Apple do demand 10x too much for upgrades, they should allow 3rd party and more self upgrading options (there are lots of guides out there, but it is a little harder then upgrading average pc).

#15 Posted by crusader8463 (14419 posts) -

I'm not a fan of their products, I think the way they do business is very shady, and I think the only reason they are relevant is because for some strange reason all the cool kids started using their expensive products as fashion statements. Which is unfortunate for the 2% of people who just generally like their products that have to get lumped in with the above crowed. However, they area a business and as long as dumb people keep buying their shit, and love being taken for it, I can't fault them for continuing to do what they are doing. They a a business and businesses are only around to make money.


The only apple product I like is itunes. I only use it as a place to store, list and rate my music and I like how dumbed down and simple it is to do that and to make lists when I want to. That's the only reason I like it.
#16 Edited by Chop (1996 posts) -

I think it's ridiculous that Apple gets away with charging so much for their products but I don't blame them. If people are stupid enough to pay out the ass for a brand name they deserve to get gutted. 

Online
#17 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

I own an iPhone 4, iPad 2, a Mac Mini, and MacBook Pro.

Apple just works.

#18 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
@amir90
i've added some info, lemme know what you think?
#19 Edited by ptys (1938 posts) -

I don't believe the majority of Apple customers buy in for the image, sure some do but why pay attention to the vocal minority? Also... honestly, their stuff isn't that expensive considering the design aesthetics and quality of some of their gear. The image of the company itself is a bit "PC pop culture" which I despise, but they are making big waves which everyone eventually reaps the benefits of e.g. Lots of tablets are being made by a number of companies now.

#20 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
@KaosAngel
lol that sounds like an advertisement :P. 

@crusader8463
Yeah i agree, every once in a while i meet someone who legitly uses their products, and i feel bad for judging him/her in the beginning.  
#21 Posted by RichardLOlson (1852 posts) -

I hate apple so much and never have any plans on buying there products.

#22 Posted by Fallen189 (4989 posts) -

No, because I'm older than 16

#23 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -

I don't pay for the hardware, I pay for the software and the service. That said, the hardware is always high-quality anyways.


I don't mind buying from Apple.
#24 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
@Fallen189 said:
No, because I'm older than 16
Oh my! i hail to your maturity! 
#25 Posted by Fallen189 (4989 posts) -
@gamefreak9 said:
@Fallen189 said:
No, because I'm older than 16
Oh my! i hail to your maturity! 
Golfclap

I understand that it might be COOL to hate apple, because of blah blah blah excuses. But what's the point? Their hardware is fucking fantastic. Like KA said, they just WORK
#26 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -
@gamefreak9: Have you ever dealt with Apple's Customer Service? Most pleasant experience I've ever had dealing with a company. To me, it's worth the money just to get decent quality hardware and top-notch customer service. I don't mind paying the overhead for that.

Also, is it incorrect to say that, even though they may have a larger profit margin, considering that they earn more real dollars than other companies, they could very well do just fine as far as employee benefits? I mean, if, say, Dell gets 18% profit margin but only makes $1.5 billion, and apple gets 22% but makes $3 billion, isn't Apple still spending more real dollars on employees and costs than Dell is? And seeing as Dell is an OEM and doesn't operate any retail stores (I don't think), this might be especially relevant. I'm asking this as a serious question, though, because I don't know whether that would be the case.
#27 Posted by amir90 (2154 posts) -
@gamefreak9: Good job :)
#28 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -

Don't worry guys, none of Apple's success is related to the convenience involved at every step of the process, right down to being able to bring your shit into the store for free troubleshooting and set-up.


Why would you ever want to have genuinely helpful service when you can deal with the shit Microsoft puts you through just to figure out how to install the damn Windows 7 disc under a Student License?
#29 Edited by amomjc (977 posts) -
@Atramentous said:

better question is why do people "hate" things they dont care for. Isnt it possible to not buy the products without trying to start some internet crusade about how rotten a company is for not tailoring a product to your needs? 

God. THIS.

I have to say that after owning and iPod for 4 years, and iPhone for 3, and an iPad for 1 that its not the apple product i care about, its the apps. Apple could go burn in hell for all I care with some other company picking up its iOS, and as long as app developers stick to the cycle, I will be happy.

I guess what I am trying to say is that is Apple was able to make an okay platform, but the user is what defines the pieces of hardware now, not really just a fashion statement like it use to be.
#30 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -
@example1013
TBH i haven't dealt with much service except my broker and bank. So i have come to expect good customer service, but yeah i don't know they might be really good.

Well since we are talking about ratios here, REAL dollars don't matter, its still a proportion. And i'm sure that companies of that size both offer benefits that are on par. Since dell doesn't operate any real stores, then there margin should be higher, as their is no like rent or upkeep. Actually its a wonder Apple has a higher margin than DELL who has 18% gross and 4% net profit margin. i Guess they have some inneficient processes somewhere. Though dell has to pay MSFT for their operating system... well theres like ALOT of factors to take in, but fact remains they are overpriced :P. 
#31 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -

Hardware enthusiasts will never understand the draw of Apple, because all they can think is "Man, I could build that myself for a lot less money".

#32 Posted by Everyones_A_Critic (6296 posts) -

Well uh.....I like my Macbook.....

#33 Posted by mrv321 (258 posts) -

Oh great... this again.

Apple doesn't have great hardware, they USE THE SAME GOD DAMN HARDWARE... IN MOST LAPTOP's and PC's. Yout hink its superior hardware because your paying a superior price.

@example1013 said:

Don't worry guys, none of Apple's success is related to the convenience involved at every step of the process, right down to being able to bring your shit into the store for free troubleshooting and set-up.

Why would you ever want to have genuinely helpful service when you can deal with the shit Microsoft puts you through just to figure out how to install the damn Windows 7 disc under a Student License?
Or... get this you can install one of the best, most stable and customizable OS's in the world. UBUNTU. It's free, sure you can't go to the shop to fix a 'problem' but then again the problem has probably already been fixed.

Mac OSX and Windows 7 share equally stupid design, some of the worst I've seen... and to think people not only pay for it but ask for it. Why is the close button next to the min/max buttons? I mean not very often do you want to min one program but close another. Stupid design with the future being touchscreens.

Linux may not be the most used, but sure as hell is a damn sight better than anything Apple is overing and Windows who have changed their design for 15 years. I can't wait till Apple starts copying Ubuntu and everyone jumping on apple and hailing the 'new' design as the future.

Apple over-priced nonsense, even their iPhones are out of date.
#34 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -
@gamefreak9: If you ever have an issue that's not due to human error (for instance, dropping the computer, which isn't covered) and end up dealing with Apple's customer service, you will see just how dreamy it is. You can literally take your computer to the store, and if they can't fix it for free (which really only happens when you break something that needs to be replaced), your computer is FUBARed. I've never been given 30 seconds of hassle by anyone from Apple, and nor has my mom. We've had used Apple products for close to 20 years now (almost my entire life)  and are nothing but immensely satisfied with the support we've received.

I'd go so far as to say that Apple's free service is on par with Dell's Gold Support, which is a premium support system. As I said before, you can just bring your computer or iPad or whatever into any Apple store and the people there will help you fix it or set it up or what have you. A Consumer Reports study listed Apple as the company with the best support for their laptops by a pretty good margin. 
#35 Posted by NorthSarge (248 posts) -

I was a huge PC person, despised macs, all that jazz. Until i needed a mac for Final Cut. 


and

now i can't use PCs anymore.

@example1013 said:
Hardware enthusiasts will never understand the draw of Apple, because all they can think is "Man, I could build that myself for a lot less money".
Ive decided apple isn't all about the specs. its about the aesthetic and feel of the hardware as a unit... so i guess the price tag would be OSX. And if you just happen to be lazy and/or not tech savvy enough... they have the option to pay out the ass for RAM and a new processor. if people are willing to pay for it. why not have the option? it is a business after all.
#36 Posted by RE_Player1 (7558 posts) -

I love all my Apple products. I got an iMac, iPad, iPod touch and iPod shuffle. They're great because I like the aesthetic and the interface. I don't really know if I'm making a fashion statement because I rarely go outside or show people these products :p

#37 Posted by DeeGee (2121 posts) -

It's so cool to hate popular things.

#38 Posted by medacris (649 posts) -

I like my MacBook and my iPod Touch, and I've never had a serious issue with iTunes, but I have no desire for an iPhone (my current phone works just fine) or an iPad (it's essentailly just a second computer or a really big iPod, I already have something that perform those two functions).

I agree it's not worth the effort to complain about anything you don't like, regardless of whether it's Apple or Justin Bieber or what have you. Save your energy for something that's not just annoying and harmless, but rather, offensive and needs to be discussed.

#39 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -
@mrv321 said:
Oh great... this again.

Apple doesn't have great hardware, they USE THE SAME GOD DAMN HARDWARE... IN MOST LAPTOP's and PC's. Yout hink its superior hardware because your paying a superior price.

@example1013 said:
Don't worry guys, none of Apple's success is related to the convenience involved at every step of the process, right down to being able to bring your shit into the store for free troubleshooting and set-up.

Why would you ever want to have genuinely helpful service when you can deal with the shit Microsoft puts you through just to figure out how to install the damn Windows 7 disc under a Student License?
Or... get this you can install one of the best, most stable and customizable OS's in the world. UBUNTU. It's free, sure you can't go to the shop to fix a 'problem' but then again the problem has probably already been fixed. Mac OSX and Windows 7 share equally stupid design, some of the worst I've seen... and to think people not only pay for it but ask for it. Why is the close button next to the min/max buttons? I mean not very often do you want to min one program but close another. Stupid design with the future being touchscreens. Linux may not be the most used, but sure as hell is a damn sight better than anything Apple is overing and Windows who have changed their design for 15 years. I can't wait till Apple starts copying Ubuntu and everyone jumping on apple and hailing the 'new' design as the future.Apple over-priced nonsense, even their iPhones are out of date.
When I say good hardware, I mean it's not shoddily put together. I know the hardware isn't specced any better, but it's good quality stuff, from a durability standpoint.

Also, as to your Ubuntu thing: can you go to a store and ask a person to teach you how to use something with Ubuntu? Can you get help setting up passwords and accounts? Is there a place to go where someone can show you how to fix your iPod, or install something? As always, the people complaining about Apple are power users who have no grasp of what it feels like to not have a damn clue about anything to do with a computer. Your average user just wants something that they can plug in, and already know how everything works. They want to be able to run Word, and Internet Explorer (or Safari). They want to be able to call or go to a business to have someone fix their computer. They don't want to deal with a completely new OS, they don't want to deal with different features, they don't want to deal with drivers, and they don't want to deal with administrative settings.
#40 Posted by Skytylz (4031 posts) -

It's capitalism, if they're idiots take advantage of them.  

#41 Posted by mrv321 (258 posts) -
@DeeGee said:
It's so cool to hate popular things.
This is hating on Apple, who have neither the largest market share in PC or Smart phones... if we hated on Winfows and Android then you can complain ;) I think Apple may even be third in OS after Linux.

Funny that... we aren't hating popular things just things that cost too much.
#42 Posted by DeeGee (2121 posts) -
@mrv321: I take that to mean you think Apple isn't popular, to which I laugh and walk away shaking my head at the crazy person =)
#43 Edited by Example1013 (4834 posts) -
@mrv321: iPad controls the largest share of tablets. iPhone is almost tied with Android, and was 1st in smart phones forever. Windows fanboys have been hating Apple's desktop OS for at least 15 years now.

EDIT: and Apple's OS market share has been rising steadily. Some companies are starting to adopt OSX for business purposes, which is originally how WIndows "won" the OS wars.
#44 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -

I think all three of the answers have been first at point :P. 

#45 Posted by MideonNViscera (2257 posts) -

I'm neutral about Apple as I am with any company. Their idiot fans are annoying as hell though. At this point I'd feel like a total douche whipping out an iPhone, and I've been using iPods since second gen.

#46 Posted by mrv321 (258 posts) -
@example1013 said:

@mrv321 said:

Oh great... this again.

Apple doesn't have great hardware, they USE THE SAME GOD DAMN HARDWARE... IN MOST LAPTOP's and PC's. Yout hink its superior hardware because your paying a superior price.

@example1013 said:

Don't worry guys, none of Apple's success is related to the convenience involved at every step of the process, right down to being able to bring your shit into the store for free troubleshooting and set-up.


Why would you ever want to have genuinely helpful service when you can deal with the shit Microsoft puts you through just to figure out how to install the damn Windows 7 disc under a Student License?
Or... get this you can install one of the best, most stable and customizable OS's in the world. UBUNTU. It's free, sure you can't go to the shop to fix a 'problem' but then again the problem has probably already been fixed. Mac OSX and Windows 7 share equally stupid design, some of the worst I've seen... and to think people not only pay for it but ask for it. Why is the close button next to the min/max buttons? I mean not very often do you want to min one program but close another. Stupid design with the future being touchscreens. Linux may not be the most used, but sure as hell is a damn sight better than anything Apple is overing and Windows who have changed their design for 15 years. I can't wait till Apple starts copying Ubuntu and everyone jumping on apple and hailing the 'new' design as the future.Apple over-priced nonsense, even their iPhones are out of date.
When I say good hardware, I mean it's not shoddily put together. I know the hardware isn't specced any better, but it's good quality stuff, from a durability standpoint.

Also, as to your Ubuntu thing: can you go to a store and ask a person to teach you how to use something with Ubuntu? Can you get help setting up passwords and accounts? Is there a place to go where someone can show you how to fix your iPod, or install something? As always, the people complaining about Apple are power users who have no grasp of what it feels like to not have a damn clue about anything to do with a computer. Your average user just wants something that they can plug in, and already know how everything works. They want to be able to run Word, and Internet Explorer (or Safari). They want to be able to call or go to a business to have someone fix their computer. They don't want to deal with a completely new OS, they don't want to deal with different features, they don't want to deal with drivers, and they don't want to deal with administrative settings.
There's a difference then, if you buy the cheapest product then it will have been made by the lowest bidder, but if you pay the right price it'll be just fine. I have a medion PC that still works like a dream.... Medion>Apple then? Nice... So the whole iPhone 4 incidents was that a case of shoddy hardware? Or the iPhone problem or the aweful battery in iPod touches, or leaking bateries in Apple laptops? What are these?

' Ubuntu thing: can you go to a store and ask a person to teach you how to use something with Ubuntu' Yep they are called Loco's ;) and guess what they are free to.
'
Can you get help setting up passwords and accounts?' So because Apple has a bad design Ubuntu must also have a bad design? No problems setting up account.
'
Is there a place to go where someone can show you how to fix your iPod, or install something?' iPod I don't see how that fits into the Ubuntu debate but there's a lot of friendly and helpful people on Ubuntu.com and GUESS what because Ubuntu actually works I've never had to use it... I like how in the same thread we have people saying

'When my device breaks, apple fixes it, but because it's apple the hardware isn't broken, but I do need someone to fix it when it does break but it's not shoddy'

'
Your average user just wants something that they can plug in, and already know how everything works.' Have you ever used Ubuntu it's designed for the average user. You plug in and it works... all the time everytime. Hey it comes with firefox, and a app store ( prior to mac ) so you can easily install new application.

YOUR ASSUMING HERE THAT THE PROBLEMS YOU MAKE UP FOR UBUNTU ARE TRUE. Try it sometime... you'll be surprised.

 '
They don't want to deal with a completely new OS, they don't want to deal with different features, they don't want to deal with drivers, and they don't want to deal with administrative settings' USE UBUNTU, STOP MAKING UP PROBLEMS. All drivers are AUTO-DETECTED AND DOWNLOADED. So... because it's a new OS people should use it... back to XP then. Different features? Like working, yeah can see why that would be a problem. You DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH ADMINISTRATIVE SETTINGS. You download, follow instructions and your ready to go. There's even videos and tutorials for you.

 http://www.ubuntu.com/download

Try it, it even works with MAC, will probably be cheaper than anything on MAC to. 
#47 Posted by mrv321 (258 posts) -
@example1013: Yeah, but if they DID have the largest market share, and now they don't they are losing market share on the phones.

Buisness are also increasingly using Linux, more so than MAC ;) just to point that one out.

Oh and btw, Mac OS used to be first, they aren't now, they lost that one to... BECAUSE THEY COST TOO MUCH. Analyst predict a climb in android and a fall in iOS... explain that?

iPad currently holds the market share of tablet, but Honeycomb just came out, and they are slowly losing market share.
#48 Posted by AlexW00d (6240 posts) -
@example1013 said:
@mrv321: iPad controls the largest share of tablets. iPhone is almost tied with Android, and was 1st in smart phones forever. Windows fanboys have been hating Apple's desktop OS for at least 15 years now.

EDIT: and Apple's OS market share has been rising steadily. Some companies are starting to adopt OSX for business purposes, which is originally how WIndows "won" the OS wars.
Android has about 3 times the market share of iOS. Although you are right about tablets.

Also on your previous comments about people not knowing about computers preferring OSX, I'm not sure if you can say that, as I would like to say I know my way around a Windows PC to a certain extent, but give me a Mac and I am forever getting lost in it's shoddy UI, but then when I finally got around to installing Ubuntu a few weeks ago, it felt as if I had been using it for years, it is so easy to get to grips with and find your way around.
#49 Posted by MideonNViscera (2257 posts) -

heh My buddy never had a computer until he got a Mac a few years ago. He wanted me to come over and teach him how to steal music, games, comics, TV shows, movies, etc. After trying to right click on everything I became frustrated and he doesn't know how to do any of that to this day haha

#50 Posted by Sin4profit (2924 posts) -

There's still one and only one Apple product i actually care about, the iPod Classic, that seems to be their turning point in the industry.

If it takes appealing to the fashionistas of the world to push innovation, then i'm all for it. Tablet PCs existed before, but no one gave a shit about them until the iPad became a thing. and now  all phones that call themselves smart phones are basically the iPhone with different software.

Also you have to factor in research and development. With innovation comes a lot of R&D and they have to account for that in their pricing as well.