Help Me With Japanese Homework [Week 1]

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Vinchenzo

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#1  Edited By Vinchenzo

I need a bit of help with my homework. So if you know anything, feel free to help me out. Please note that we are only working in Hiragana at this time, so if you do type in that format please use Hiragana. Secondly, you don't have to. You can just type something like "sensee" instead of typing in Hiragana. In fact I hope you type without using Hiragana.


Anyway I am having some problems with placing words. Let me start off by telling you what the exercise says.

"Translate the following phrases into Japanese using the frame work "A [no] B.""

Okay, now let me use my first problem as my question.

"Japanese teacher"

It should go [nihon no sensee]. Right? It didn't say he was a Japanese language teacher, just a Japanese teacher. So I chose to not add the [go]. In the case this were possessive (e.g. [wastashi]), I would put the subject first, then [no], then the topic. According to my notes at least. Leading into the next phrase.

"Masao's telephone number"

If everything is correct it would go [Masao no denwa bangoo].

And should I be adding [desu] to the end of my sentences? That means "is" right? In which case it would not be necessary here.

I might add more questions later on, so please check back. (I will post instead of editing my thread.)

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So that I can type Japanese on my keyboard, what is the process? I went to "Control Panel" and enabled Japanese on my keyboard. Whenever I switch to Japanese though, it does nothing. I'm not sure what to change.

I'm using Windows Vista.

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Now my obligatory Japanese video. Thank you for your time.

  

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JackiJinx

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#2  Edited By JackiJinx
For typing Japanese.

I am not very far advanced in Japanese grammar at all, so I couldn't tell you the proper word order. I can tell you though that the character の indicates possession, and what you have written says "Japan's teacher."

Also, せんせい. The last character is an い, not an え. 
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Diamond

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#3  Edited By Diamond

I don't want to help you to much, but I'll remind you of something :

Nihon = Japan
Nihongo = Japanese language
Nihonjin = Japanese person

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Steve_C

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#4  Edited By Steve_C

To type out kana and kanji, click show the language toolbar to expand it and once it's set to japanese, there should be an 'input mode' section where you can select from hiragana and katakana.

I think you've got the sentences correct though. In the first instance, nihon no sensei could be read as 'Japan's teacher', but could also be 'teacher of Japan' which makes more sense. That's assuming it means a teacher who is japanese, rather than someone who actually teaches the Japanese language. You'd have to substitute 'nihon' in that case.

Once you've constructed that part of the sentence, you could then put 'watashi no' in front of that to make it 'My... so and so'.


In the second instance, there's no need to put a desu since you're just stating a noun. If you were to go further, marking it as a topic and saying 'Masao's telephone number is... so and so' then you'd need to finish it with desu.

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Pie

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#5  Edited By Pie

Go get KaosAngel.

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Vinchenzo

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#6  Edited By Vinchenzo
@Steve_C: I thought it might have two meanings. I realize (as Jacki said) that [no] makes the word before it possessive. But the exercise on the worksheet tells me to make the following sentences into "A [no] B" format.
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suneku

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#7  Edited By suneku

I'm on my newer laptop so I can't type in Japanese but it's Nihongo no sensei and the second one is right except for the bango spelling. I can't remember if it's bango or bangou. It never ends with double O characters. And you need finish the sentence with desu.

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Steve_C

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#8  Edited By Steve_C
@Vinchenzo: It's not so much different meanings as it it just different readings based on context and what makes sense in English. I don't think there are as many variations in Japanese and all that is needed is the 'no' particle.

For instance 'Taxi Driver' is 'takushii no untenshu'. Taken literally that could be 'taxi's driver', but you could read it backwards as in 'driver of the taxi' or 'driver belonging to the taxi'. It all means the same thing, but there's just different ways for it to be read when converted to english, and some make more sense in our language then others.
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get2sammyb

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#9  Edited By get2sammyb

Can't help with Japanese but this is a better Scandal tune.

  

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Vinchenzo

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#10  Edited By Vinchenzo
@Steve_C: Thanks. In the context explained, now it would make more sense. Judging from what the exercise said, I doubt they wanted me to make a completely new sentence.

Just wanted to clarify one more thing. So [bangoo] is misspelled? I'm looking at a book that, I think, maybe spelled it by how it sounds rather than the actual spelling. Either way a lot of my information is coming from this book to use on the worksheet. I still don't know a lot of this stuff. I'd like to think the teacher is maybe going too fast, or not teaching correctly. She's a very nice teacher though.

P.S. Will Rosetta Stone Japanese help me with this stuff? I'm going to get a version from somebody I know. Remember kids, don't pirate things. Unless it costs $200-500.
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jakob187

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#11  Edited By jakob187

Vinchenzo, you have Japanese in your damn XBL tag.  That should mean that you can figure all this out with little to no problem, right?  lol

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Vinchenzo

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#12  Edited By Vinchenzo
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#13  Edited By Babble
Vinchenzo said:
@Steve_C: Thanks. In the context explained, now it would make more sense. Judging from what the exercise said, I doubt ... [more]
Yeah it's bangou. Also as someone else said it would be 'Sensei' not 'Sensee'.
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Pepsiman

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#14  Edited By Pepsiman

I brilliantly hit F5 on accident when typing my original response, so I'm just going to make this quick. Feel free to ask for more clarification here if needed, though.


First, number one should be nihongo no sensei. More often than not, when you're saying "Japanese teacher," you're probably going to imply that you mean Japanese language teacher. There are ways to convey ethnicity or that the teacher is from Japan, but those get into other, more advanced grammar points. Stick with nihongo no sensei for this assignment and you'll probably do fine.

Bangoo is technically a correct spelling for the romanization standards that focus more on pronunciation, but bangou is truer to how you would write it in actual hiragana. I personally endorse the second system (which, in turn, would also use sensei and not sensee), as you'll have far fewer issues switching from romaji to kana. It's also the system used by Window's Japanese input editor. So really, unless the class is hellbent on using it, I'd recommend switching over sooner rather than later. There are only a few real differences, so it's not really that much new material at all.

And avoid using desu for this assignment. A no B can be used in a variety of sentence structures, so it isn't always safe to assume that it'll indicate mere possession or something. Again, mere grammar point, but if you haven't been asked to translate beyond A no B, then just keep the sentences fragmented. There's no way to tell otherwise what else is supposed to be done with the information.

As for the input editor issue, assuming you got that and the Japanese characters installed correctly, the button you'll want to use to switch into Japanese output is the third one, usually signified by a capital A by default. From there, you just write out the romaji and it automatically converts to whichever kana you set it to by default. Just be sure to press enter to confirm every now and again that what you're typing out is okay and can be made permanent. Otherwise Windows will wait in lingo for the order to convert to Kanji, signified by the dotted line under any kana in question. Use F7 if you need to switch writing systems for only that given word and press space bar to bring up a list of Kanji to convert to once you've started learning how to read those.
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RsistncE

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#15  Edited By RsistncE

I have a "fucked up Japanese shit" quota and my avatar (and subsequently Metal Gear in general) have that filled and reserved. Anymore of this nonsense and my brain will melt.

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Steve_C

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#16  Edited By Steve_C

Yeah, to elaborate further, while thinking 'driver of/belonging to the taxi' makes most sense when reading it literally rather than 'taxi's driver', it doesn't apply to all situations.

In that second example, 'Masao no denwa bangou', the phrase could also be read as 'telephone number of [the] Masao' or 'telephone number belonging to Masao', but it's most logical in English to understand it as 'Masao's telephone number'.

If there's a bunch of 'no' particles in a sentence, it can be easier to work backwards. Taking the sweet ghibli animation 'nausicaa of the valley of the wind', the japanese name is 'kaze no tani no naushika'. You might see it as 'wind's valley's nausicaa' which is confusing, but by working backwards and noting the posessive particles you could read it as 'nausicaa of the valley of the wind', which makes sense in english.

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Vinchenzo

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#17  Edited By Vinchenzo
@JackiJinx: I haven't been able to respond to you thus far, with Steve_C keeping me occupied in my confusion. But I'd like to thank you for your previous statement in my other entry. The one where you stated using a dry erase board. I'm probably going to pick up on this for the SRS that you also recommended.

@Pepsiman: Thank you for further clarification on [bangou] and [sensei]. I had to download the IME which is why I was having problems. I had Vista, just not the correct symbol plug-in. Is there any way to see what Hiragana corresponds to which keys?

@Steve_C: I appreciate the continued help.

Just a general message I want to throw out to anybody who knows the language. As you have noticed, I am just starting. So if you would like to exchange simple conversations back and forth it might be helpful. At this point, I'm trying to take a class, work on an SRS that Jacki recommended, possibly install Rosetta Stone, and maybe even ask my friend's Mom for Japanese lessons. Hopefully it will pay off.
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#18  Edited By Pepsiman

You just type out the romaji for each hiragana as you would on a standard US English keyboard and the IME will convert it on the fly. So for something like せんせい, you'd type "se" which would become せ, n (probably have to be tapped twice to tell it it's specifically an n and not no, na, etc) for ん, se for せ again, and i for い.

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Vinchenzo

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#19  Edited By Vinchenzo
@Pepsiman: Figured it out. I had to actually change a setting.
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Origina1Penguin

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#20  Edited By Origina1Penguin

I knew Pepsiman had to be in this topic somewhere.  Our resident Japanese language expert  : )

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#21  Edited By Pepsiman

Thanks, but my fluency isn't much in comparison to some other people on the site I know and chat with on occasion, especially when considering that I'm just starting my second year of university-level courses. I guess I just try to help out when I can because learning the ropes initially isn't the most intuitive thing. I'm just glad I've proven to be handy from time to time. :)

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coffeesash

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#22  Edited By coffeesash

国語教師 is Japanese language teacher. Kokugo Kyoshi or Nihongo Kyoshi I guess..... 日本語教師  Sensei is a honourific for calling a teacher, it's not the word for teacher. There's no posessive character in a profession. But if we have to play by the rules for the exercise and say 'nihongo no sensei' then it's 日本語先生

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Steve_C

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#23  Edited By Steve_C

I've actually been pretty interested in uh, obtaining rosetta stone to see what it's like, since i've been wanting to properly learn Japanese for a while. Of course i wouldn't be solely using that, but yeah, i need to study more intensively. I've been mainly listening to podcasts, but my listening habits for those tend to be sporadic.

I'm okay with some basic stuff, but i mainly remember the grammar like particles and sentence structures. It's like i have templates for sentences, but i don't really have a 'word bank' of nouns and verbs to actually place in the gaps. My writing side is severly underdeveloped, meaning practically nonexistant outside of romaji. I fully intend to get stuck in further once my exams are over, so i'll have to keep track of all these useful resources.

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Vinchenzo

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#24  Edited By Vinchenzo
@coffeesash: I think you have Kanji in your post? If so read my original post. I know nothing of Kanji, and therefore most of your information went right past me.
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RelentlessKnight

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#25  Edited By RelentlessKnight

desu doesn't mean "is", this is simply put after a noun or something that is a question(with adding desu ka)

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#26  Edited By coffeesash

にほんごのせんせい nihongo no sensei but the correct word would be
にほんごきょうし nihongo kyoushi which would be a high-school teacher
or

にほんごきょうかん nihongo kyoukan which would be a university teacher
no
の in an occupation and sensei is a title not an occupation. With nihongo no sensei you'd be basically saying Mr. of Japanese which would make no sense and in Japan you'd get a blank stare or be corrected...

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keyhunter

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#27  Edited By keyhunter

inu soupu wo tabimashyo

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#28  Edited By Steve_C
RelentlessKnight said:
desu doesn't mean "is", this is simply put after a noun or something that is a question(with adding desu ka) [more]
Um, i'm pretty sure it's not. It's more flexible than 'is' alone and can be equivalent to 'am', 'are', and some more probably, just based on context.

For example, 'watashi no namae wa Shinji desu' is literally 'my name Shinji is', but read as 'my name is shinji'.
'Watashi wa atsui desu' is literally 'I hot am', but read as 'i am hot'.
In the examples, the desu takes on different words when translated for it to make sense in english, but it serves the same function within both sentences.

The desu can be dropped in casual conversation with close friends though, and/or you might use a more casual personal pronoun instead of watashi or drop it altogether. It depends on the sentence. A lot of stuff in Japanese is implied and contextual.

'Ka' is only a particle that could be added at the end to turn the sentence into a question.
'watashi no namae wa Shinji desu' = 'my name is Shinji' as stated earlier, but 'watashi no namae wa Shinji desu ka' = 'is my name Shinji?'.
It's not reliant on the desu either, and can be added to other sentences that don't include a 'desu', even when written out fully in polite Japanese.
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RelentlessKnight

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#29  Edited By RelentlessKnight
Steve_C said:
RelentlessKnight said: desu doesn't mean "is", this is simply put after a noun or something that is a question(with adding ... [more]

"is" is "wa" in Japanese not desu

I have never heard "Watashi no namae wa Shinji desu". I have only heard of "Watashi wa Shinji desu" The first one sounds abit off.  Are you referring to "Onamae wa?"
Things like "Ka, yo, ne" are particle words that adds to desu in different situations like: "sukena tabemno wa na desu ka?" (What is your favourite food), the other person will might reply, "sushi desu, oishii desu yo!" or "sukina tabemno wa sushi desu, oishii desu yo!" (My favourite food is sushi, It's delicious!)

You can also say "Boku wa" but its quite informal to say that

I might be wrong, I only took Japanese level 1 so I haven't learn how to make real sentences

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Vinchenzo

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#30  Edited By Vinchenzo

Here's what I put on some of my homework.


[The following exercise wanted me to translate phrases into "A の B" format.]

1. Japanese Teacher.
にほんごのせんせい

2. Masao's telephone number
まさおのでんわばんごう

3. your friend (I put this as "My friend" because I think it implies watashi.)
わたしのともだち

[The following exercise asked me to answer the question in Japanese.]

1. あなたの おなまえは  なんですか? (I tried to translate this but was having problems. I know he is asking what my name is, but I'm not sure what "anatano" and "ha" imply. Can anybody help here?) Either way I figured out the following...
[Vince] です




I have to work on it more tomorrow. This homework is pretty hard, mainly because I don't feel she really taught us this material. The book is giving me a large amount of help, but I'm still missing a few things.
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coffeesash

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#31  Edited By coffeesash

'Anata no onamae wa nan desu ka' It doesn't need a question mark because ka turns the sentence into a question. は is 'spelt' ha, but pronounced wa.
'You (possessive) name is what (to be)?', in Pirate 'what be your name? arrrr' so in English 'What is your name?' ^_^ To which you reply...

'nan desu ka' on its own is 'what is it?' You can use it to ask what objects, concepts or animals are, but not people as that would be rude. Nan is 'what', so you'd basically be saying 'what is THAT?' in a person's direction. In the previous sentence you are asking what someone's name is rather than what they are so it's okay :) In that way, the thinking and structure is the same in Japanese and English.

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Vinchenzo

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#32  Edited By Vinchenzo
@coffeesash: I put a question mark because the exercise had it. I was literally repeating it word for word. So blame the worksheet! So what does "anata" mean? Thanks for the explanation of "ha" though. And is just replying "[Vince] です" correct?
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RelentlessKnight

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#33  Edited By RelentlessKnight

anata means you

When someone is saying "Onamae wa?"(Your name is?), you could say [Vince] desu

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coffeesash

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#34  Edited By coffeesash

'Anata' is 'You'
wa is a topic marker, so let's just say it's 'is/are/am' etc in English
so 'Anata wa' is 'You are/ you're'
no is a possession marker
so 'Anata no' is 'Your' as in belonging to you.

Just replying 'Vince!' is disrespectful if you think about it,  'My name is Vince' is formal, 'I'm Vince' is informal. So, depends who you're talking to.
'Vince desu'  ヴンス です is 'I'm Vince'
'desu' is basically a catch-all version of the English verb 'to be' as you know.

Your name is foreign so you'd spell it out in Katakana. Bi ヴ N  ン Su ス
You can write ヴィ for Vi but Japanese people don't get along too well with 'Vee's so get used to being called Bince xD
If you've not learned Katakana though then でんす is fine for this assignment.

Just a note, you don't say Vince-san because '-san' is a honorific,which is the equvalent in english of 'Mr' so you'd be being arrogant like 'That's MR Vince to you, buddy' or an equivalent smug comment. You always use honorifics to other people unless you're REALLY close to them though, so that can be confusing.



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Vinchenzo

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#35  Edited By Vinchenzo
@coffeesash: My teacher wrote my name the first day of class. The first symbol looked like a "V" with the two small lines above the right side. I forgot the other two symbols. I'm used to people fucking up my name in America anyway. I say "Thanks for calling GameStop my name is Vince." They reply, "Hi Ben..."
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#36  Edited By solidsnake360
coffeesash said:
'Anata' is 'You' wa is a topic marker, so let's just say it's 'is/are/am' etc in Englishso 'Anata wa' is ... [more]
Whoa, whoa, whoa, you NEVER put a honorific like さん after your own name. It makes you sound like a arrogant jerk. The most textbook way to write the sentence you want is わたしのなまえはVinceです. Again, Onamae is the honorific form of namae, and so you do NOT use it when refering to yourself.
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coffeesash

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#37  Edited By coffeesash
@solidsnake360: Yeah, I edited it out, it's late here and I'm learning too. In the text afterwards, which you quoted but maybe didn't read, I explained why it's bad.
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#38  Edited By coffeesash

'watashi no namae wa Vince desu'
'わたし の なまえ は Vince です'

as solidsnake360 says is textbook 'My name is Vince'