#1 Posted by Giantstalker (1514 posts) -

Forewarning, this gets a little personal. Back when I was a lad, not really knowing anything, I ended up enlisting right out of school in my nation's armed forces. It's been my career ever since.
 
Years later, I'm very happy to have secure employment but I've come to realize that a lot of people have really... interesting opinions about the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Because these organizations are so linked to politics, and often the (bad) news, it seems like most people trust their forces (and by extension, their governments) less and less as years go by.
 
The places we've been told to go to aren't improving very much, we cost everyone a lot of money, and the oft-reported collateral damage we incur is considered barbaric if not outright negligent.
To many, being a soldier is a lazy job for the uneducated or unmotivated. They feel it's a free pass from the government; get paid to waste money and hurt innocent people.
 
What really drove this home the other day is when I talked to a friend I had from high school. We took very different paths, he's earned a degree and really made a place for himself. But the people he associates with had negative views about what I represent, and even though they humored me with minor complements, as soon as any serious conversation started it immediately became them vs. me in a debate about the very legitimacy what I do. Things got pretty heated and I left sorta angry because I'm not very good at arguing my point, but I tried and ended up sounding arrogant and unjustified. Haven't talked to him since.
 
Do you have any kind of view on the military profession as a whole? Is being a soldier a career for a failure in your eyes, or is it something that you have some respect for?
Not here to start a debate, just like hearing other points of view on the matter.

#2 Posted by ElBarto (272 posts) -

I'm in the process of joining the military.  
It's not an option I settled on because I'm uneducated or don't have the means to go to a college or University. I could've enrolled in a fair share of good schools for computer engineering. But I opted out of doing that. I guess I just want something a little more exciting in my life.  
So while it seems a little biased I don't think joining the military is indicative of being a failure; are there people in the military who are, of course but some people deserve a second chance to continue living. Hell they may turn themselves around. Get a good education out of the military and then apply it to a career post military retirement.
#3 Posted by N7 (3572 posts) -

No two people are the same and every soldier has his own reason for being there.

Regardless of politics, being a soldier is a tough job. Go over there and risk getting killed just to come back to find a lot of misguided hatred.

If people hate these politicians so much, how the hell do they keep getting voted into office? Don't blame the soldiers because of something some jerk in a suit says. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

#4 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

I work with one. Massive ass. Real full of himself. 

#5 Posted by Hailinel (23698 posts) -

Different people join the military for different reasons. It's one of the aspects of an all-volunteer military. Some people join because they don't see any other option, some join because they want assistance with college, some just join because they think it's the right thing to do. There's no shame in it.

#6 Posted by Video_Game_King (35849 posts) -
@ElBarto said:
I'm in the process of joining the military.
You're 14 :|.
#7 Posted by neoepoch (1293 posts) -

I have nothing but respect for soldiers. I'm not going to into politics because I have zero respect for politicians, but soldiers have one of the toughest jobs in the world. I come from a military family so it may color my perspective, but what soldiers have to do is completely different then how they are portrayed and glamorized in media. The things they see can be extremely difficult and have a lot of impact on their outlooks. Also the bonds that the form within units and such are extremely tight because they all have went through the same together. You may have the odd man out who fights for reasons that aren't the best but the majority of soldiers are good folk and have had a difficult time, especially in combat situations. To demonize them because of political views is misguided, ignorant, downright foolish. Soldiers do their duty even if they do disagree, because it was the choice they made. It is also difficult for some to reintegrate into society because of what they have to do. I have nothing but the utmost respect for soldiers and others in civil service, such as police and firemen, they have difficult careers.

#8 Edited by Loose (419 posts) -

The late Bill Hicks summed up my opinions about the military pretty well with this bit.
  

 
Personally, I've had nothing but negative experiences with military-folk (not that that's necessarily indicative of what all of them are like).
#9 Posted by Tim_the_Corsair (3065 posts) -

Serving in the military is worthy of respect, as are you by extension, even where I might disagree with how the military is used. Of course if youre a dickhead, I might change my mind ;p

It seems that Australians on the whole tend to understand the division between the sword and who wields it, however. We tend to be very pro our Diggers, especially with the embarrassment of how we treated them when they came back from Vietnam (that poor treatment is still considered a national disgrace by many).

#10 Posted by JimmyRedd (52 posts) -

If shit goes down and society collapses you'll have the skills to survive, white those ivory tower elitists will be prey for the jackals. So just hope for that I guess.
 
All the friends I've had that have gone into the military are people who I would consider intelligent and hard working. 

#11 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

I think Generation Kill summed up the modern soldier's experience the best.

#12 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

Young people are like "nyah ima rebel" and they hate anything resembling conformity, that's where most negative opinons on the military come. Then I ask them to give me extra ketchup and move on with my life.

#13 Posted by Chris2KLee (2328 posts) -

Can only really comment on the Canadian Forces, but in general like any large organization you see all kinds of people. I've met some real professionals, and then I've met people I would not trust to work at Walmart. That said, many of these men and women put their lives on the line daily and I respect that. It's sometimes hard to separate people when they all wear the same uniform, but it's important to remember there still individual under there. Some good and some not so much.

#14 Posted by nickb64 (214 posts) -

I respect that people have the guts to take a job in which they could very well get killed and which people will undoubtedly give them shit about. I wouldn't want the job, and I'm glad that some people will do it.

All of the people in the military that I know are pretty good people, who genuinely care about what they are doing, and I think a lot of the times where people think that military guys are assholes comes from them being assholes to the military simply because of their being in the military. As far as I can tell, it's much the same with police officers. I know several police officers/sheriff's deputies, and they are good people. I wouldn't want their job either.

#15 Posted by ElBarto (272 posts) -
@Video_Game_King
Refer to my bio
#16 Posted by Tim_the_Corsair (3065 posts) -
@ryanwho Beautifully said
#17 Posted by Chop (1992 posts) -

I judge people on an individual basis, not as a group. I'm not gonna automatically respect or hate you because you're in the military. 

#18 Posted by Liber (648 posts) -

I served 3 years in IDF, because here in Israel pretty much everyone has to.

#19 Posted by Rusputin (75 posts) -

I have nothing but respect for anybody in the military.  A lot of people like to think of the armed forces as full of degenerates and idiots who couldn't hack it in civilian life, but in reality it's more like these degenerates and idiots are smart enough to realize "normal" everyday zombie civilian life isn't far off from being dead.
A lot of people don't truly appreciate what people in the military do.  They dedicate a minimum of several years of their life to the service of their country in exchange for bad pay.  You should always take comfort in the fact that if the shit ever really hits the fan, all these guys bashing on you are going to be the ones hiding under a desk while you're out saving lives.

#20 Posted by cnlmullen (900 posts) -

@Giantstalker: I never really viewed military people that way. The head of the atheist group at a nearby college (the one I was a part of interacted with them a lot) was an ex-marine so I know there are some real clever folks overseas fighting. I've known several young veterans, and can't think of any that I actively dislike... they all seemed like pretty good people, but that's just my own, personal experience.

But just because I don't have a problem with military people doesn't mean I think pouring zillions of dollars into military interventions that don't necessarily improve things is a great idea.

#21 Posted by W0lfbl1tzers (1787 posts) -

People can be assholes and people can be saints. People in the military are people. Easy.

#22 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

@Chop said:

I judge people on an individual basis, not as a group. I'm not gonna automatically respect or hate you because you're in the military.
#23 Posted by niamahai (1405 posts) -

Is it disrespectful to tell a soldier that I admire him/her for they can do things I cannot?

I don't know whats the basic etiquette when greeting soldiers (i don't think its FUCK YOU~~)

@Liber said:

I served 3 years in IDF, because here in Israel pretty much everyone has to.

wuts it liek being in the IDF?

does the IDF treat beautiful recruits different?

do you mix with the lady soldiers?

#24 Posted by Origina1Penguin (3500 posts) -

By default I respect every member of the military. They are all braver than I am. That said, I know there are a bunch of dicks in the military (refer to Team America: World Police analogy). But unless they do something immoral, I think they've earned the right to be a bit of dick. I don't have to be their friend to be grateful.

#25 Posted by Liber (648 posts) -

@niamahai: IDF is alright, terrible pay (I was getting around 200$ a month being infantry, desk jobs get less than half of that).

You do mix with the ladies, but that depends on where you are deployed. I was deployed on a tiny outpost on a mountain in a middle of nowhere surrounded by Palestinian settlements.

#26 Posted by Meteora (5787 posts) -

I respect most if not all personnel who has served the military, especially in western civilizations which we don't have to join involuntarily, though mandatory service doesn't really affect my respect too much. I feel that soldiers should be respected more than they should sometimes. Don't hate the soldiers, hate the politicians in suits.

#27 Edited by crusader8463 (14412 posts) -

EDIT: Wow, that is fucking retarded. I had a huge big thing typed out and everything after the link just dissapeared as soon as I hit enter... I'm not typing all that shit again. Here's the abridged version.
 
As someone who hopes to one day join the Navy, and has had a Grandfather that fought all through Europe and Africa in the 8th Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise's) during WW2, I was raised to have nothing but respect for the individuals that make up the military. I may disagree with why they are places doing what they do, but the individual people that make up the military are not to be blamed for the miss doings of higher ups. They are putting their lives on the line so that we can live in a free country, and anyone who doesn't give respect to someone willing to do that is scum as far as I'm concerned. Unless the individual is being a jackass or harassing you, in which case they relinquish that right.

#28 Posted by TotalEklypse (1000 posts) -

As someone who is from a military family, almost every member serving in one way or another since the civil war.. I just want to say. 
 
 
Pawns. 
 
When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die. ~ Jean-Paul Sartre

#29 Posted by Milkman (16486 posts) -

There are assholes in the military and there are good guys in the military. I don't automatically respect someone because they're in the military and I don't automatically think someone in the military is an asshole. If there is some sort of conflict that I disagree with, I don't blame the soldiers for that because it wasn't their decision. I always found people who said "This war is bullshit. Fuck the troops" incredibly stupid because they are just doing what they're told. I'll be angry at the higher ups, not the people risking their lives.

#30 Posted by Aelric (401 posts) -

I never understood those with a problem with soldiers by virtue of their occupation itself, though I’ve certainly known enough. You see, I went to a VERY left-wing college, mainly because I’m VERY left wing myself, or at least I thought I was before I went there. While I think that just about every conflict other than Lybia is an unnecessary financial and moral expense that our country does not need to take, I also don’t blame the soldiers for it. There was a time where the world itself would have been ruined if it were not for those willing to fight against the Nazis. There is not a damn thing wrong with a soldier himself, though perhaps his orders can be wrong.

That said, I will tell you my experience with some soldiers. While in school, my ex ran off with one. We had met him at our local bar, he got agro, she swooned and a week later she was gone, off to the mid-west with him, where her beat her and she left him after a year of abuse (she and I are still friends now despite what happened, which is how I know.) In the past three years, I’m been teaching English overseas n Thailand and South Korea. Korea has TONS of soldiers due to Lil’ Kim up north, but they are in a developed country with nothing to do. This often leads to the pent up aggression that they were trained to have, plus a general distain they feel for the locals (which the locals are openly hostile to them as well) leads to nearly weekly news about rape and assault, especially around “Hooker Hill” in Seoul by US Military personnel. I’ve been to clubs that would suddenly get an influx of soldiers and almost immediately a fight would break out with the locals (to be fair, the locals start that as often as the soldiers do, Korea is real nationalistic and sore about foreigners of almost any sort.)

As I already said, I’ve nothing wrong with a soldier as a profession, but I must admit that a lot (certainly not all or most by any means, just a lot) of the soldiers I’ve known are hyper aggressive, ultra-nationalist or just sort of douchey. Conversely, others are smart as tacks and yet others are the gentlest folks I know. The profession does indeed attract a certain personality sort, I feel, but like any other profession, it doesn’t define everything about every member of it. Just because a cook serves a bad meal doesn’t mean all cooks everywhere serve shit food.

Your friends friends were in the wrong on this one. If he takes their side, shake your head and walk away. I marches protests against every damn thing Bush did, but I’ll never blame the boys on the ground for it.

#31 Posted by allworkandlowpay (874 posts) -

I have no more or less respect for the military as a career choice as any other job. I judge you only on your person. If you are a douche bag, it doesn't matter to me if your a douche bag Army Sergeant or a douche bag Accountant, your still a douche bag.

What I don't like is the overblown, Orwellian tactics used by "the powers to be" to convince people that somehow people in the military are more worthy of respect and better than other people. Nobody in the army, navy, air force or marines are, in any way, "protecting my freedom." Our freedom hasn't been at risk of being taken away by any invader since 1812. I don't need to like you, respect you, or honor you any more than anybody who took any other dangerous career path.

That said, is the choice to take up a short term or long term a military career a legitimate path? Absolutely. Should it be looked down upon as a failure? Certainly not.

#32 Posted by Vinny_Says (5681 posts) -

Watch Stalingrad (1993) and you`ll realize that for a majority of the people it`s just a job, but if you disobey you get locked up or shot.

#33 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@Giantstalker: You know, I totally was brainwashed into thinking the military was evil growing up. It was like going to church every sunday for me, it just became routine, then one day I kinda just took a long hard look at it and realized the truth.  
 
Since there is this thread, I'll just rant away.  
 
The military isn't all about shooting and killing people. Despite what you hear on the news everyday about marines dying on the field everyday, over 50% of the jobs in the military isn't combat related. We have a freaking high tech army, so that means we need somebody just for radar, intel, satelites. And even if you ain't that smart, we also need plumbers, cooks, mechanics (all jobs that people go to community colleges for anyway). Of course that ain't even counting the doctors and nurses that the army employs to heal their own. If you were a doctor, which patient would you rather work your ass off to save: The gun shot victim from a gang related violence, or the gun shot victim for the soldier that took a bullet for his country.  
 
But of course there is the elephant in the room. Infantry (lets include all levels of spec ops/seals and such). Most people that have a problem with them, usually are the same people that have a problem with death and killing in general. Guess what, we don't live in a utopia and violence will occur. This unfortunately does kinda attract the alpha male ass hole types, since their attitude when trained properly does make for an effective soldier. Honestly though, I don't care. Just like there are lots of musicians and athletes out there that had nothing growing up but their natural talent to bring them food on the table, its the same thing here. Only difference is their skill is killing. Kinda morbid I know, but perhaps some restraint in using them is the key.  
 
Oh, b, bu, but, but, the broken window fallacy....... I'm gonna show you the broken jaw fallacy if you don't actually pay attention.  
 
The broken window fallacy is one that is based purely on the destruction of war and the economic opportunity cost involved. The broken window fallacy only works based on the assumption that the window is broken in the first place. Having an army doesn't equate to having a broken window. Using the army to destroy things, now you got some broken windows. If you can't get that distinction in your head, STFU. In case you didn't know, it is the politicians that ultimately gives the order to break the windows. Take your fight up with them, cause its one thing to hate an army being misused for evil, rather than the army itself.  
 
Then, there is me. I'm actually college educated. Graduated around the time when the house of banking cards was falling and as a result my resume has to fight against people with ten years of experience for the same entry level job. By the time I finally did get around to having job offers, they were all jobs that either had no health care coverage, or just barely above the living wage. I got fucking college debts here yo. So once again, I look at the army. Guess what? They reward college and intellectualism. Have some college credits? Why that's an automatic promotion. Have a degree? Well, go ahead and cut in line for another promotion. Did you join straight out of high school? Well, lets set you up with a college fund so you can go back to school when you are ready to leave the military. Have college debts, well, lets just erase that now.  
 
 
Of course, before I sound too one sided for them; anyone that joins the military does basically give up their rights. You can't just quit the army when the going gets tough. If the enemy gets through to your base, even if you're just the cook, you can still die. No matter how much you don't like the next president; if he gives the command to attack, you attack even if you don't agree. Their lives are harder than even the traveling salesman since they can't even control where and when they have to leave home. If you're single, that may not be a problem, but eventually everybody gets the primal urge to have kids. As human as each of the soldiers are; ultimately they are used as tools for the politicians. That is just a sad fact, since even the most pro-military people have to realize. But before, you go ahead and make that your argument on why to hate on the military, understand how stupid of an argument that is. Hating on military people because they will follow almost any command, is like hating on people that work for google because they are nerds and spend all day coding. For whatever reason, that is the life these people have chosen and thankfully it pays well enough in America that you can make a career out of it. 
#34 Posted by Little_Socrates (5675 posts) -

One of my high school friends joined the marines. He's a wonderfully nice guy, absolutely inspired me day to day to realize that people need someone legitimately entertaining in their life who doesn't ask too much of them and who isn't afraid to suddenly break into off-key jazz, Billy Joel, or broadway because he was always so secure and self-confident. He was also one of the most empathetic men I've ever known; when my father passed away, even though I'd barely known him, he was there for me. He and I visited the Vietnam War Memorial in DC our senior year, and it was there I first saw him shed a tear. When we said our goodbyes at the end of high school, we let each other know we were both ridiculously proud of each other to the point that we considered each other heroes. That was...tearful too.

Suffice it to say, it's been hard to keep in contact with him since. But I've seen him once this summer, and he seemed...colder. Something in his year of absence hardened him some; to be fair, he'd recently broken up with his high school sweetheart, so maybe he was just still down about that. But I still couldn't respect him more, and the commitment and strength he holds going into his future is more admirable to me than just about any other quality I've seen in a person.

However, another one of my friends wanted to join the military as a medic. He'd dropped out of college due to depression (read; not diagnosed as he obviously wouldn't have been able to join the military if he had been) as a result of having no structure and being isolated from his community. He felt like the structure the military would institute would be right for him, and he felt like he'd be making a difference by serving. I advised him to think carefully on this; he'd already abandoned one lifestyle due to depression, and the guilt he could've felt after losing a patient might've crushed him. Ultimately, he decided against serving, and I think it was for the best.

I treat our servicemen with the respect they deserve. Even if they don't agree with our nation's politics, they are ready to defend our nation the moment a threat comes our way, and it's impossible for me to not respect that kind of dedication. And I'd never think of them as just "jarheads" as one of the greatest men I've ever known is in service to this day.

#35 Posted by piropeople13 (399 posts) -

What you're saying sounds like some Vietnam era bullshit. Me and the people I talk to have the absolute utmost respect for those who serve, even if I do not agree with every war we wage, that is not the problem of the people who wage it. It is the problem of those who declare it (Politicians). The USA has a great separation between army and government what with the Chief Commanding officer (President) being a civilian and all that. If your friends have problems they are taking it out on the wrong person. You are doing your job and there are so many things everyday that everyone takes for granted because there are people who go out there and just do their jobs.

#36 Posted by troll93 (386 posts) -
@Tim_the_Corsair said:
Serving in the military is worthy of respect, as are you by extension, even where I might disagree with how the military is used. Of course if youre a dickhead, I might change my mind ;p It seems that Australians on the whole tend to understand the division between the sword and who wields it, however. We tend to be very pro our Diggers, especially with the embarrassment of how we treated them when they came back from Vietnam (that poor treatment is still considered a national disgrace by many).
In my experience Australia respect the hell out of previously serving diggers but also place a huge amount of judgment on currently serving personnel so the don't "fuck up". A case example is the diggers up in North Queensland that were dressing up like the KKK and makeing rasist remarks and posting it on youtube while in uniform or the recent sex scandal at the military collage. The moment that stuff like that happens the military gets hit HARD!! Also the navy is basically a government paid P&O cruse. That's not a good thing either, full of rape, drugs shooting at refuges ect.
#37 Posted by Enigma777 (6057 posts) -

My entire family on my dad's side is in the military. It's probably the reason why I hate it so much. Don't get me wrong, I respect what they do and the sacrifices they make, I just never, ever want to do that.

#38 Posted by Capum15 (4792 posts) -

I respect the decision to join the military, even more so during wartime.

As for individuals, since they're individuals, my opinions differ from person to person. I respect that they chose to join, but they could be total asses in person. That said, the few people I have met who have been in the service have been alright.

#39 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -

I view soldiering as a very low and undesirable career path. It's not that I have any political issue with it, nor do I deny that many people actively want to be soldiers, it's just that the service does not tend to attract academically intelligent and articulate people. Many who go into the service come out with very difficult personalities to deal with, which is not good for a post-service employment prospects. Additionally it seems to attract bullies or those who want to go on a power trip. 
 
These criticisms are not of the defence industry as a whole, I actually want to work as a defence analyst.

#40 Posted by Asurastrike (2157 posts) -

Just as with any other profession, there are good and bad people within the military.

#41 Edited by Aetheldod (3495 posts) -

Well I do not begrudge a person that decide a military path , and Im smart enough to know that were they fight etc. its decided by politicians (and as some can attest there is nothing I hate more than politicians) , but to automaticly respect them and have them higher than myself , hell no friend , we are all the same. Also I understand that the vast majority join for the wrong reasons and or expect a simple life in it or a peacefull life , also have in mind that when in the military you are trained for one thing , killing , military and death go hand with hand and if you think otherwise you are gravely mistaken (so no bitching about it).

The question is , would I join I war that I believe in , certainly I would , would that be under a country's flag (aka military force) , no ... I do not believe in the fallacies of modern countries and I care less about them , so when someone tells me that they are doing a "patriotic thing" etc. I feel sorrow for them , not respect.

Then again I come from a country who's last war was civil and has had no major presence in conflicts of the modern age (sans an air squadron during the pacific theater in WW2 , but that's about it). Do I have family in the US armed services , I do , do I respect them more because of it ... no , do I insult them etc. because of their career choices? No. Do I hate politicians .... yes. Ok after all that nonsense I wrote I ahh dont know how to end this -_-

#42 Posted by Extreme_Popcorn (842 posts) -

I've had a drink thrown in my face, been slapped, been called a murderer and all sorts of things. I'm not in the military, I work for an oil company.

I do however know a few guys who serve in the UK armed forces and they are perfectly nice guys, a couple of them have a bit of an ego but then again if I jumped out of planes for a living I probably would too.

#43 Posted by 9cupsoftea (652 posts) -

I'll probably get shot down for this - but when you join the military you are in effect supporting your country's military operations. I don't think so much funding should go to the military, I don't think we should be fighting wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya, I don't think we should be using predator drones in Pakistan, and I don't think it's so 'brave' to fight for an army with 10x more firepower and twice the size of the other 'army'. Especially when millions of recruits return from these wars suffering long-term damage and get crapped on by their government (my gf works with troops suffering from PTSD).
 
I'm not gonna criticise you for it, but it does make me think that the military is either made of people with completely different political viewpoints to me - or people who are either too young or ignorant to realise how much damage they cause to other countries and themselves.

#44 Posted by allworkandlowpay (874 posts) -

@Buck_Sexington said:

I've had a drink thrown in my face, been slapped, been called a murderer and all sorts of things. I'm not in the military, I work for an oil company.

I do however know a few guys who serve in the UK armed forces and they are perfectly nice guys, a couple of them have a bit of an ego but then again if I jumped out of planes for a living I probably would too.

You murdered the Dinosaurs!

#45 Posted by Stonyman65 (2573 posts) -

I respect them. I might not agree with the politics behind it, but they put their asses on the line for their country and each other. It is a tough job, and they deserve respect for what they do. "If you can't stand behind your troops, get in front of them"

#46 Posted by Aetheldod (3495 posts) -

@9cupsoftea said:

I'll probably get shot down for this - but when you join the military you are in effect supporting your country's military operations. I don't think so much funding should go to the military, I don't think we should be fighting wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya, I don't think we should be using predator drones in Pakistan, and I don't think it's so 'brave' to fight for an army with 10x more firepower and twice the size of the other 'army'. Especially when millions of recruits return from these wars suffering long-term damage and get crapped on by their government (my gf works with troops suffering from PTSD). I'm not gonna criticise you for it, but it does make me think that the military is either made of people with completely different political viewpoints to me - or people who are either too young or ignorant to realise how much damage they cause to other countries and themselves.

This too .... people all ready know what is at stake before joining so no "But I didn't know" will cut it in my books

#47 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -
@Asurastrike: But the military has a disproportionately high number of bullying and abuse cases, and in post-military life soldiers often have difficulty finding stable employment as well as suffering a variety of personal problems, irrespective if they have seen action or not. I'm not saying there aren't bullies in other careers, nor that there aren't good people in the military, I'm just saying it has lots of bullies.
#48 Posted by coakroach (2488 posts) -

I have very little respect for the armed forces. 
As an Australian/New Zealand dual citizen my countries military history is made up of naive kids being shipped halfway across the world to die for someone else's empire, something that some people down under are proud of for some reason. 
Most wars are countless young people being butchered for the interest of a handful of old men, willingly being a part of such a monstrous system is something I cant help but find morally wrong. 

#49 Posted by gamefreak9 (2336 posts) -

Military is fine, though i don't expect those types to be deep thinkers when they are trained like animals. As long as you don't interpret your presence and importance in the military as anything else than defense and protection, its fine. I mean what can you expect, your sacrificing freedom and choice and chances to be uniquely productive in society for following orders of what is very likely to be some nationalist ignoramus. At least you have the excuse that you thought it was a thrilling choice, but the fact remains War is the biggest waste of money(which i translate into price of human labor) man has ever invented. Though i guess its necessary when all those other countries are so belligerent. 

#50 Posted by troll93 (386 posts) -
@coakroach said:
I have very little respect for the armed forces. As an Australian/New Zealand dual citizen my countries military history is made up of naive kids being shipped halfway across the world to die for someone else's empire, something that some people down under are proud of for some reason. Most wars are countless young people being butchered for the interest of a handful of old men, willingly being a part of such a monstrous system is something I cant help but find morally wrong. 
Not most... all wars. As for the pride, it's about overcoming colossal challenges that other countries couldn't do. The British called the lone pine untakable and only committed a few ANZAC's to it as a diversion. Not only did they take it, they held it for three days without support. It's pride in the resourcefulness of our men. It wasn't the British the stooped the Germans in Africa, it was the rats of Tobruk. In ww1 Australia committed the 3rd largest amount, only behind Germany and France, respective to our population and GDP and the most in ww2, again respectively.  It is also often tempered with hate towards the British. Churchill was one of the commanders on the gallipoli campaign and made sure the English troops had the easy beaches and naval support but fuck the ANZAC's. I personally make it a point to tell the English that we were the ones that stooped the Germans, not them. They like to say they stood alone but they didn't. Slight rant over.