The very nature of capitalism lends itself to a boom & bust system. A centralized banking system SHOULD help control this and stop recessions. Unfortunately, it hasn't done it's job properly. It needs to be changed, but getting rid of it would make things 1000 times worse. I fail to see how getting rid of it would stop recessions, inflation or mass unemployment.
"The very nature of capitalism lends itself to a boom & bust system. A centralized banking system SHOULD help control this and stop recessions. Unfortunately, it hasn't done it's job properly. It needs to be changed, but getting rid of it would make things 1000 times worse."
That's not true. There is nothing in capitalism which creates the boom and busts. Capitalism is a system of natural selection. Businessmen who are good and making business decisions and are efficient. have profits. Those who are bad, go out of business. So how is it, that every once in awhile, all of the businesses in an economy suddenly lose all ability to forecast the future, make accurate predictions, and run an efficient business?
So what is the characteristic of the market which has the creates the business cycle?
Also, without the business cycle, there are no recessions, and no mass unemployment. And without the federal reserve, there wouldn't be inflation because fiat money wouldn't be used.
Businessmen get greedy. They try and make as much money as possible as quickly as possible, thinking only about short term gains, rather than long term economic prosperity. It is over greedy businessmen that have lead to the recession.
"Businessmen get greedy. They try and make as much money as possible as quickly as possible, thinking only about short term gains, rather than long term economic prosperity. It is over greedy businessmen that have lead to the recession."
Greed has nothing to do with the business cycle. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the current recession. The interest rates set by the federal reserve are responsible for this.
Let me put it this way: A little while ago, the vast majority of businesses were doing very, very, well. Since you believe "greed" is the reason for economic problems, there must have been no greed. So how come, all of the sudden, the vast majority of businessmen became extremely greedy all at the same time?
The greed eventually caught up with them. They were always greedy, but it just eventually took its toll on the economy. I'm not saying poorly set interest rates didn't play a part, it might have done, I don't know enough about the recession over in America to be able to argue either way for that one, but a centralized banking system is a good thing. It might need changing to make it better, but getting rid of it would send the economy into a huge downturn.
"Businessmen get greedy. They try and make as much money as possible as quickly as possible, thinking only about short term gains, rather than long term economic prosperity. It is over greedy businessmen that have lead to the recession."
Greed has nothing to do with the business cycle."
My economics book says you're talking bullshit. Greed is a very important element in the market system.
"Businessmen get greedy. They try and make as much money as possible as quickly as possible, thinking only about short term gains, rather than long term economic prosperity. It is over greedy businessmen that have lead to the recession."
Greed has nothing to do with the business cycle."
My economics book says your talking bullshit. Greed is a very important element in the market system."
There will be greed either way so it will always be part of the equation.
"The greed eventually caught up with them. I'm not saying poorly set interest rates didn't play a part, it might have done, I don't know enough about the recession over in America to be able to argue either way for that one, but a centralized banking system is a good thing. It might need changing to make it better, but getting rid of it would send the ecconomy into a huge downturn."
1) How does greed create recessions/depressions? (Be very specific) 2) Why does it happen to all businesses at the same time? 3) Why is central banking good?
"Businessmen get greedy. They try and make as much money as possible as quickly as possible, thinking only about short term gains, rather than long term economic prosperity. It is over greedy businessmen that have lead to the recession."
Greed has nothing to do with the business cycle."
My economics book says your talking bullshit. Greed is a very important element in the market system."
Your economics book also teaches Keynesian economics. It says you can spend your way out of recessions, it says there is something called the "multiplier" with government spending, and it also says that it harms an economy to save money.
Your book is wrong.
Answer these questions:
1) How does greed create recessions/depressions? (Be very specific) 2) Why does it happen to all businesses at the same time? 3) Why is central banking good?
"1) How does greed create recessions/depressions? (Be very specific) 2) Why does it happen to all businesses at the same time? 3) Why is central banking good? "
I'm no expert economist, but I do know that you can't leave a countries economy in the hands of random businessmen who just happened to get lucky and make a tonne of money. They will mess it up. You need a central bank to stop idiots destroying the economy.
"1) How does greed create recessions/depressions? (Be very specific) 2) Why does it happen to all businesses at the same time? 3) Why is central banking good? "
Do you read Rothbard by any chance?"
I actually have read every book Rothbard has ever written...except Man, Economy, and State....but I'm working on it.
"I'm no expert economist, but I do know that you can't leave a countries economy in the hands of random businessmen who just happened to get lucky and make a tonne of money. They will mess it up. You need a central bank to stop idiots destroying the economy."
But government stabilization do the opposite and destabilize. Businessmen aren't profitable because of luck and greed, they are profitable because they are good at running business. Central banks turn them into idiots by lying to them. Banks set artificial interest rates which trick businessmen into making bad decisions. It's not their fault, it's the central bank's fault.
"I'm no expert economist, but I do know that you can't leave a countries economy in the hands of random businessmen who just happened to get lucky and make a tonne of money. They will mess it up. You need a central bank to stop idiots destroying the economy."
But government stabilization do the opposite and destabilize. Businessmen aren't profitable because of luck and greed, they are profitable because they are good at running business. Central banks turn them into idiots by lying to them. Banks set artificial interest rates which trick businessmen into making bad decisions. It's not their fault, it's the central bank's fault."
Sure, businesmen are good at running businesses, but running a business and keeping a countries economy stable are different things. As I said before, I'm not saying the federal reserve doesn't need changes, but it definitely needs to stay in some form.
Capitalism is a system of natural selection. Businessmen who are good and making business decisions and are efficient. have profits. Those who are bad, go out of business
Absolutely 100% false, and recently this was proven bunk by the world's biggest economic collapse and the laughably slapped together bailouts. In USA capitalism, "natural selection" has nothing to do w/ the system. First of all "natural selection" has to do w/ evolution, not economics. Lets break it down.
Last year, with businesses failing at record numbers and losing equity like never before seen, "businessmen" or in this case, VPs/CEOs/CFOs etc.. were setting records for bonus payments and salaries, meanwhile they were also begging for bailout money.
In the new globalized capitalism system we live in, a good business or a good idea is irrelevant. All that maters is perception, speculation and manipulation of the markets. The USA automakers have been living on a failed business model for decades, yet they survive.. how is that? Federal corporate welfare, and manipulation of the government through lobbyists and many other tactics and strategies.
The price of Oil for instance has nothing to do w/ supply and demand. If you read the data from the various studies on Oil, the over inflated gas prices were a direct result from speculation buys and market manipulation. There is a false demand created by speculative buys. You can buy "barrels of oil" that you never need to take delivery on. You "buy" 30 barrels at say $50/ea then "sell" them 6 months later for a profit if you can. You never needed the oil, you could not take delivery if you had to because you are just some random speculator sitting in a mansion, you don't own a refinery or any other technology to process oil. Thus the price fluctuates based on people manipulating the prices by putting out reports and predictions all in the hopes of scamming short term profits.
This is just the commodities market, one of many markets laden w/ scams, loopholes, and brilliant morally apathetic number crunchers who figure out a way to work the system, get rich and walk away. The California Energy Crisis of 2001 is another great example. There was no energy shortage. Yet there were rolling blackouts, and then governor Gray Davis got duped into "buying" energy futures when there was no need to do so, at inflated prices because the speculators were side jobbing "reports" about how the prices would only rise... so lock in the "low price now!"
They even have tape of the people talking about how brilliant their scam was, in real time as they are flipping switches to route power.
The *GREAT MYTH* of capitalism is that it is "fair" and "survival of the fittest" when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. The only thing "fair" about capitalism is that anyone can get involved in the speculative market and become a scam artist as well if they have the knowledge and skillset. But those outside the system are not treated "fairly" and the GOVERNMENT giving failed businesses welfare money simply because they are "too big to fail" doesn't even fit in w/ these false principles people claim to have about "free market"
Capitalism is a system of natural selection. Businessmen who are good and making business decisions and are efficient. have profits. Those who are bad, go out of business
Absolutely 100% false, and recently this was proven bunk by the world's biggest economic collapse and the laughably slapped together bailouts. In USA capitalism, "natural selection" has nothing to do w/ the system. First of all "natural selection" has to do w/ evolution, not economics. Lets break it down.
Last year, with businesses failing at record numbers and losing equity like never before seen, "businessmen" or in this case, VPs/CEOs/CFOs etc.. were setting records for bonus payments and salaries, meanwhile they were also begging for bailout money.
In the new globalized capitalism system we live in, a good business or a good idea is irrelevant. All that maters is perception, speculation and manipulation of the markets. The USA automakers have been living on a failed business model for decades, yet they survive.. how is that? Federal corporate welfare, and manipulation of the government through lobbyists and many other tactics and strategies.
The price of Oil for instance has nothing to do w/ supply and demand. If you read the data from the various studies on Oil, the over inflated gas prices were a direct result from speculation buys and market manipulation.
The *GREAT MYTH* of capitalism is that it is "fair" and "survival of the fittest" when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. "
It hasn't been proven wrong and I was speaking figuratively...I thought that might be obvious.
Your whole post is ridiculous. Let's make this clear. Respond to each number.
1) I am aware. That is what happens in the "bust" phase of the business cycle, which is not a part of capitalism.
2) I agree, which is further reason for me to dislike government intervention.
3) Wrong. Prices in the market are pure supply and demand. During the boom, gas prices rise. During the bust, the fall. That's because in the boom, there is economic expansion (false), and it creates higher demand while the supply remains static. In the bust, the demand decreases, while the supply still remains static. That means higher prices in booms, lower prices during busts. The last couple years are a good example.
4) I didn't know capitalism was ever considered fair. All capitalism revolves around is voluntary exchanges in the marketplace.
"I'm no expert economist, but I do know that you can't leave a countries economy in the hands of random businessmen who just happened to get lucky and make a tonne of money. They will mess it up. You need a central bank to stop idiots destroying the economy."
But government stabilization do the opposite and destabilize. Businessmen aren't profitable because of luck and greed, they are profitable because they are good at running business. Central banks turn them into idiots by lying to them. Banks set artificial interest rates which trick businessmen into making bad decisions. It's not their fault, it's the central bank's fault."
Sure, businesmen are good at running businesses, but running a business and keeping a countries economy stable are different things. As I said before, I'm not saying the federal reserve doesn't need changes, but it definitely needs to stay in some form."
Continuous profits IS stability. Only when there is a distortion of credit, inflation, and interest rates does the system become unstable. Businesses will fail from time to time, that's inevitable, but there would never be systematic failures like we are seeing now, where they all collapse at once.
Capitalism is a system of natural selection. Businessmen who are good and making business decisions and are efficient. have profits. Those who are bad, go out of business
Absolutely 100% false, and recently this was proven bunk by the world's biggest economic collapse and the laughably slapped together bailouts. In USA capitalism, "natural selection" has nothing to do w/ the system. First of all "natural selection" has to do w/ evolution, not economics. Lets break it down.
Last year, with businesses failing at record numbers and losing equity like never before seen, "businessmen" or in this case, VPs/CEOs/CFOs etc.. were setting records for bonus payments and salaries, meanwhile they were also begging for bailout money.
In the new globalized capitalism system we live in, a good business or a good idea is irrelevant. All that maters is perception, speculation and manipulation of the markets. The USA automakers have been living on a failed business model for decades, yet they survive.. how is that? Federal corporate welfare, and manipulation of the government through lobbyists and many other tactics and strategies.
The price of Oil for instance has nothing to do w/ supply and demand. If you read the data from the various studies on Oil, the over inflated gas prices were a direct result from speculation buys and market manipulation.
The *GREAT MYTH* of capitalism is that it is "fair" and "survival of the fittest" when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. "
It hasn't been proven wrong and I was speaking figuratively...I thought that might be obvious.
Your whole post is ridiculous. Let's make this clear. Respond to each number.
1) I am aware. That is what happens in the "bust" phase of the business cycle, which is not a part of capitalism.
2) I agree, which is further reason for me to dislike government intervention.
3) Wrong. Prices in the market are pure supply and demand. During the boom, gas prices rise. During the bust, the fall. That's because in the boom, there is economic expansion (false), and it creates higher demand while the supply remains static. In the bust, the demand decreases, while the supply still remains static. That means higher prices in booms, lower prices during busts. The last couple years are a good example.
4) I didn't know capitalism was ever considered fair. All capitalism revolves around is voluntary exchanges in the marketplace."
Nope, I updated my post while you were replying apparently. I debunked the myth about "supply and demand" for the oil markets and gas prices. In short, the "demand" was not for oil, it was for oil commodities, i.e. generating profits off fake demand and public fear.
Many Congressman have signed the Federal Reserve Abolition Act, but i dont really know what will come of it. The Federal Reserve in its current state is not doing its job properly, and its my opinion that something should be done about it, if it means wiping it out (which wont happen), then so be it.
Capitalism is a system of natural selection. Businessmen who are good and making business decisions and are efficient. have profits. Those who are bad, go out of business
Absolutely 100% false, and recently this was proven bunk by the world's biggest economic collapse and the laughably slapped together bailouts. In USA capitalism, "natural selection" has nothing to do w/ the system. First of all "natural selection" has to do w/ evolution, not economics. Lets break it down.
Last year, with businesses failing at record numbers and losing equity like never before seen, "businessmen" or in this case, VPs/CEOs/CFOs etc.. were setting records for bonus payments and salaries, meanwhile they were also begging for bailout money.
In the new globalized capitalism system we live in, a good business or a good idea is irrelevant. All that maters is perception, speculation and manipulation of the markets. The USA automakers have been living on a failed business model for decades, yet they survive.. how is that? Federal corporate welfare, and manipulation of the government through lobbyists and many other tactics and strategies.
The price of Oil for instance has nothing to do w/ supply and demand. If you read the data from the various studies on Oil, the over inflated gas prices were a direct result from speculation buys and market manipulation.
The *GREAT MYTH* of capitalism is that it is "fair" and "survival of the fittest" when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. "
It hasn't been proven wrong and I was speaking figuratively...I thought that might be obvious.
Your whole post is ridiculous. Let's make this clear. Respond to each number.
1) I am aware. That is what happens in the "bust" phase of the business cycle, which is not a part of capitalism.
2) I agree, which is further reason for me to dislike government intervention.
3) Wrong. Prices in the market are pure supply and demand. During the boom, gas prices rise. During the bust, the fall. That's because in the boom, there is economic expansion (false), and it creates higher demand while the supply remains static. In the bust, the demand decreases, while the supply still remains static. That means higher prices in booms, lower prices during busts. The last couple years are a good example.
4) I didn't know capitalism was ever considered fair. All capitalism revolves around is voluntary exchanges in the marketplace."
Nope, I updated my post while you were replying apparently. I debunked the myth about "supply and demand" for the oil markets and gas prices. In short, the "demand" was not for oil, it was for oil commodities, i.e. generating profits off fake demand and public fear."
Okay, so you won't reply to the other points I made?
And I realize there is speculation, but that is not the cause of the fall and rise in prices. It has a very small effect on the prices. The laws of supply and demand apply to every good in the market, there are no exceptions. When the recession hot, people bought less gas, and the prices fell. Not because of speculation, but because of less demand.
"Many Congressman have signed the Federal Reserve Abolition Act, but i dont really know what will come of it. The Federal Reserve in its current state is not doing its job properly, and its my opinion that something should be done about it, if it means wiping it out (which wont happen), then so be it."
Ha, yea. That will never pass. Without the federal reserve, the government can't print new money to fund their ridiculous empire. What politician would vote to end that? They get a monopoly on counterfeiting money. Sounds like a luxury to me.
This is the nature of Anarcho-Capitalists, they wish to remove all government ties to the protection of flowing free markets. Pure capitalism has never worked, and though the Federal Reserve has been doing a shiat job, we have nobody to blame except the people who are running it.
First of all, the government doesn't "protect" anything. Second, I follow Austrian Economics, simple as that. Third, Tell me when pure capitalism has never worked and why?
"First of all, the government doesn't "protect" anything. Second, I follow Austrian Economics, simple as that. Third, Tell me when pure capitalism has never worked and why?"
Just look at the debacle of the energy crisis with Enron. Nobody was looking over them, their only interest was making money and they said "Fuck you" to the Californian people. If you have read "The Smartest Guys in the Room", they would explain it better. Companies are not your friend, and none of them are interested in becoming your friend. If government had the chance, they would have stopped the Ethyl Corporation from releasing drugs in America, that just so happened to KILL PEOPLE. If government wasn't around, you would continue to have people like Monsanto who continue to make life hell for farmers. It's nice that you have your little knowledge in economics, but it seems as if all succesful economists in the national level also know about political science and sociology. A free market that isn't protected is about as dangerous as a free market that is overregulated. And it is also cute that you follow Austrian Economics, but the comparison of America and Austrian economy is idiotic. You generally don't compare unless the two are extremely similar in population and culture.
"First of all, the government doesn't "protect" anything. Second, I follow Austrian Economics, simple as that. Third, Tell me when pure capitalism has never worked and why?"
Just look at the debacle of the energy crisis with Enron. Nobody was looking over them, their only interest was making money and they said "Fuck you" to the Californian people. If you have read "The Smartest Guys in the Room", they would explain it better. Companies are not your friend, and none of them are interested in becoming your friend. If government had the chance, they would have stopped the Ethyl Corporation from releasing drugs in America, that just so happened to KILL PEOPLE. If government wasn't around, you would continue to have people like Monsanto who continue to make life hell for farmers. It's nice that you have your little knowledge in economics, but it seems as if all succesful economists in the national level also know about political science and sociology. A free market that isn't protected is about as dangerous as a free market that is overregulated. And it is also cute that you follow Austrian Economics, but the comparison of America and Austrian economy is idiotic. You generally don't compare unless the two are extremely similar in population and culture.
"
Wow....Everytime I think you couldn't say anything more unintelligent, you surprise me.
"And it is also cute that you follow Austrian Economics, but the comparison of America and Austrian economy is idiotic. You generally don't compare unless the two are extremely similar in population and culture."
That is definitely the funniest post I've seen on here. It just shows that you actually have no idea what you are talking about.
Austrian economics has nothing to do with the Austrian economy . Austrian School Economics is a school of thought. It's an economic theory. Please, just stop replying to my posts, you're embarrassing yourself.
And I'm not going to watch some losers opinion on anarcho-capitalism. I go to this crazy thing called "college" to learn, not youtube.
"1) How does greed create recessions/depressions? (Be very specific) 2) Why does it happen to all businesses at the same time? 3) Why is central banking good? "
Wow....Everytime I think you couldn't say anything more unintelligent, you surprise me. "
My mistake, you should have been specific (But I am not familiar with the school of thought), because I would not have been aware that you were refering to genre. Also, please tell us why pure capitalism would work. Note that there exists human elements to our society, in which we are not all as perfect as Ayn Rand characters. You love to explain economics, but you have not a clue of sociological issues pure capitalism. Please explain WHY it would work, you explain theory, but never practice.
Why should we replace the current system with pure capitalism? Considering that the human element creates scarcity. Remember that communism was a great theory, but it never worked in practice(Considering that all excecuted attempts butchered the philosophy and destroyed the economy and society). Why should we as a society remove the current system, which is an amazing system as it is, with something that reaks of Ron Paul bullshit?
Wow....Everytime I think you couldn't say anything more unintelligent, you surprise me. "
My mistake, you should have been specific (But I am not familiar with the school of thought), because I would not have been aware that you were refering to genre. Also, please tell us why pure capitalism would work. Note that there exists human elements to our society, in which we are not all as perfect as Ayn Rand characters. You love to explain economics, but you have not a clue of sociological issues pure capitalism. Please explain WHY it would work, you explain theory, but never practice.
Why should we replace the current system with pure capitalism? Considering that the human element creates scarcity. Remember that communism was a great theory, but it never worked in practice(Considering that all excecuted attempts butchered the philosophy and destroyed the economy and society). Why should we as a society remove the current system, which is an amazing system as it is, with something that reaks of Ron Paul bullshit?
"
Alright, first of all, I watched that video for 10 minutes, and there was not one single good argument. So I stopped.
I am not an anarcho capitalist, which apparently you can't process. And perhaps before saying some smartass comment about you thinking it's cute that I follow austrian economics, maybe you should make sure you know what you are talking about. I've never read Ayn Rand, and I never will, so I don't know what the characters are like. And yes, I do love to explain economics, because that's my major, it's what I know. You should try the same thing, and only argue about topics that you know. For example, you are clueless about economics, yet you consistently make idiotic statements on economic topics.
Even though you are obsessed with arguing against something which I have repeatedly said I don't believe an, AND even though this is completely unrelated to this topi, I'll entertain you.
"Considering that the human element creates scarcity"
I am very aware of this. Economics is based on scarcity. It is based on limited resources and unlimited desires. This requires giving some things up for others, or opportunity cost. So I don't even know why you brought that up.
"Remember that communism was a great theory, but it never worked in practice(Considering that all excecuted attempts butchered the philosophy and destroyed the economy and society)"
No, it was an awful theory. There is nothing great about it.
"Why should we as a society remove the current system, which is an amazing system as it is, with something that reaks of Ron Paul bullshit?"
Because our society is both immoral, and a failure.
This topic is not about what political theory you prefer, it's about ending the Federal Reserve. It's an economics topic, something you know nothing about, so stop posting here and make a topic about why you don't like anarcho capitalism.
To the thread creator, communism isn't a terrible idea if you stay within the confines of a small population. The model just doesn't lend itself well to large populations. And getting rid of the Federal reserve seems like an over simplified way of trying to change things. The Fed was set up to handle banking crisis' of this type, obviously circumstances have led to its inability to do its job.
This is also probably the wrong outlet for this kind of discussion, the layers of complexity inherent in this topic make it hard to accomplish much here.
"To the thread creator, communism isn't a terrible idea if you stay within the confines of a small population. The model just doesn't lend itself well to large populations. And getting rid of the Federal reserve seems like an over simplified way of trying to change things. The Fed was set up to handle banking crisis' of this type, obviously circumstances have led to its inability to do its job.
This is also probably the wrong outlet for this kind of discussion, the layers of complexity inherent in this topic make it hard to accomplish much here."
What is it about Communism that is a good idea?
And I know we have lots of problems, the biggest being the Federal Reserve's manipulation of credit and interest rates. The FED was set up to control the money supply, not to protect people from anything.
Perhaps it is a deep discussion, but if some intelligent people actually come here, a good discussion might result. I'm not trying to accomplish anything as much as just discuss.
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