I've been a metalhead since i got introduced to metal back in 2004-2005, and til this day, i cant get subgenres quite straight. I mean i get the general idea and i can usually distinguish the sound and vocals, and define bands correctly, but still, its confusing.
For example, i decided to get my Death/Doom/Prog/Gothic on by devoting my weekend to listening to Amorphis, Anathema, Paradise Lost and Dark Tranquility's albums.
So i started listening to Amorphis from their first album on, and while reading the lyrics (of the first album "The Karelian Isthmus") i noticed that while it was about epic battles, religion, god leading the army and other things of that sort, it had no mention of Death, Dying or Dead people whatsoever. Yet its considered a Death Metal album.
Is there something im missing? how can it be Death? shouldnt it be Folk (its not Viking since it revolves around an older era), or even Black because of the religious theme ?
So my point is, i feel like i'll never fully get the graps of the sub-genres definitions, or that they're actually mixed and confusing.
What say you, metalheads of giantbomb ?
How well can you define metal bands / distinguish subgenres ?
" Well, son… genre categorization is not necessarily contingent upon lyrical subject matter. That's your first mistake. "You're right, dad.
I do think that the growls and toned down guitars were very death-ish, but i thought the lyrics played a bigger part
Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that. All you should care about are two genres: Songs you like, and Songs you don't like. I couldn't care less about defining genre's and crap like that. Either I like a song, or I don't, it's that simple. What category of metal it falls into is meaningless.
" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that. All you should care about are two genres: Songs you like, and Songs you don't like. I couldn't care less about defining genre's and crap like that. Either I like a song, or I don't, it's that simple. What category of metal it falls into is meaningless. "It's meaningless to you because you dont seem to have enough interest in metal (if at all) as much as most metalheads do.
I respect your "like / dislike" policy, and u should respect how essential genre definition is to hardcore fans :)
It's like a hobby to listen to a record and try to capture the sound and notice the elements and then define it, which can be followed by comparing it to other albums, or bands.
Not well. I can define Metalcore. That's about it. What's the difference between black metal and death metal anyway.
As a wikipedia page can quickly tell you, Black Metal is the evil metal based on witchcraft and magic and anti-Christianity, noted for it's high-pitched (crazy) singing, and extreme and sharp guitar play." Not well. I can define Metalcore. That's about it. What's the difference between black metal and death metal anyway. "
while Death Metal is the opposite: it has deep growls and very thick guitar riffs, usually death-themed.
I, AlwaysAngry, declare all genres from now on be called "ass-pop-explosion" is you don't like them, and "good music" if you do like them.
Problem solved. You can thank me now.
" @Whisperkill said:Well alrighty then" Not well. I can define Metalcore. That's about it. What's the difference between black metal and death metal anyway. "As a wikipedia page can quickly tell you, Black Metal is the evil metal based on witchcraft and magic and anti-Christianity, noted for it's high-pitched (crazy) singing, and extreme and sharp guitar play. while Black Metal is the opposite: it has deep growls and very thick guitar riffs, usually death-themed. "
" I, AlwaysAngry, declare all genres from now on be called "ass-pop-explosion" is you don't like them, and "good music" if you do like them. Problem solved. You can thank me now. "Actually, there was no problem for you to solve, and you just shat on a very deep matter and turned it into a shallow black-or-white equation
fuck you!
no just kidding buddy :)
" @Whisperkill said:I believe you meant to write "Death" there." Not well. I can define Metalcore. That's about it. What's the difference between black metal and death metal anyway. "As a wikipedia page can quickly tell you, Black Metal is the evil metal based on witchcraft and magic and anti-Christianity, noted for it's high-pitched (crazy) singing, and extreme and sharp guitar play. while Black Metal is the opposite: it has deep growls and very thick guitar riffs, usually death-themed. "
@Ahmad_Metallic said:
" @MattyFTM said:Sorry, but no. If you ever would shun a band because of genre, you're not a real metal fan. It's like those kids that are all:" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that. All you should care about are two genres: Songs you like, and Songs you don't like. I couldn't care less about defining genre's and crap like that. Either I like a song, or I don't, it's that simple. What category of metal it falls into is meaningless. "It's meaningless to you because you dont seem to have enough interest in metal (if at all) as much as most metalheads do. I respect your "like / dislike" policy, and u should respect how essential genre definition is to hardcore fans :) It's like a hobby to listen to a record and try to capture the sound and notice the elements and then define it, which can be followed by comparing it to other albums, or bands. "
"Whoa d00d! This music PWNZ! What's the genre?"
"Anus-pop-explosion v2.0"
"Oh, then I don't like this song anymore."
And if you're not like that and genre is meaningless, who cares what genre it is? It's like driving by a lake and then having to pull over because you MUST know what PH balance in the water. Meaningless.
" @Ahmad_Metallic said:i sure did" @Whisperkill said:I believe you meant to write "Death" there. "" Not well. I can define Metalcore. That's about it. What's the difference between black metal and death metal anyway. "As a wikipedia page can quickly tell you, Black Metal is the evil metal based on witchcraft and magic and anti-Christianity, noted for it's high-pitched (crazy) singing, and extreme and sharp guitar play. while Black Metal is the opposite: it has deep growls and very thick guitar riffs, usually death-themed. "
@AlwaysAngry said:
" @Ahmad_Metallic said:Um, if you're talking to me, i never said i base whether i like or dislike a song, on it's genre :S I said its important and interesting to know the different genres and tell them apart and compare them." @MattyFTM said:Sorry, but no. If you ever would shun a band because of genre, you're not a real metal fan. It's like those kids that are all: "Whoa d00d! This music PWNZ! What's the genre?" "Anus-pop-explosion v2.0" "Oh, then I don't like this song anymore." And if you're not like that and genre is meaningless, who cares what genre it is? It's like driving by a lake and then having to pull over because you MUST know what PH balance in the water. Meaningless. "" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that. All you should care about are two genres: Songs you like, and Songs you don't like. I couldn't care less about defining genre's and crap like that. Either I like a song, or I don't, it's that simple. What category of metal it falls into is meaningless. "It's meaningless to you because you dont seem to have enough interest in metal (if at all) as much as most metalheads do. I respect your "like / dislike" policy, and u should respect how essential genre definition is to hardcore fans :) It's like a hobby to listen to a record and try to capture the sound and notice the elements and then define it, which can be followed by comparing it to other albums, or bands. "
And your lake example sucks ass :P i really have no interest in explaining why subgenres matter and why they're so interesting, if you dont get it then you really just dont
I think think placing a metal band in a metal genre has alot to do with song structure, mainly guitar structure. For example, when you listen to Cannibal Corpse or Nile, you can tell its death metal because of the chaotic guitar structure and by how the drums fit with the guitar. The same goes for when you listen to Dimmu Borgir, Graveworm, or Wolves In The Throneroom you can tell its Black metel. Lot of tremelo picking and long drawn out notes at times. I think Amorphis would probably fit in Progressive Metal. (Straight forward guitar, new wave keyboard etc.) Just my thoughts though.
Cheers.
" @AlwaysAngry said:It would be interesting, and I understand that because I used to be like that, but now it seems everyone has a different genre for one song. Nothing is really right or wrong anymore :/" @Ahmad_Metallic said:i sure did" @Whisperkill said:I believe you meant to write "Death" there. "" Not well. I can define Metalcore. That's about it. What's the difference between black metal and death metal anyway. "As a wikipedia page can quickly tell you, Black Metal is the evil metal based on witchcraft and magic and anti-Christianity, noted for it's high-pitched (crazy) singing, and extreme and sharp guitar play. while Black Metal is the opposite: it has deep growls and very thick guitar riffs, usually death-themed. "
@AlwaysAngry said:" @Ahmad_Metallic said:Um, if you're talking to me, i never said i base whether i like or dislike a song, on it's genre :S I said its important and interesting to know the different genres and tell them apart and compare them. And your lake example sucks ass :P i really have no interest in explaining why subgenres matter and why they're so interesting, if you dont get it then you really just dont "" @MattyFTM said:Sorry, but no. If you ever would shun a band because of genre, you're not a real metal fan. It's like those kids that are all: "Whoa d00d! This music PWNZ! What's the genre?" "Anus-pop-explosion v2.0" "Oh, then I don't like this song anymore." And if you're not like that and genre is meaningless, who cares what genre it is? It's like driving by a lake and then having to pull over because you MUST know what PH balance in the water. Meaningless. "" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that. All you should care about are two genres: Songs you like, and Songs you don't like. I couldn't care less about defining genre's and crap like that. Either I like a song, or I don't, it's that simple. What category of metal it falls into is meaningless. "It's meaningless to you because you dont seem to have enough interest in metal (if at all) as much as most metalheads do. I respect your "like / dislike" policy, and u should respect how essential genre definition is to hardcore fans :) It's like a hobby to listen to a record and try to capture the sound and notice the elements and then define it, which can be followed by comparing it to other albums, or bands. "
But here's my opinions,
Death Metal - Low, dark vocals. Always fast paced with heavy riffing and no breakdowns like in other metal genres. Example - Cryptopsy.
Death-core - Death Metal mixed with metalcore. Breakdowns, pig squealing, and pretty much a toned down version of Death Metal. Example - Job for a Cowboy.
Metalcore - A mixture between hardcore bands such as A Day to Remember and oldschool metal bands like Metallica (no link necessary...I hope.)
Black Metal - Simple, demonic, Satan-worshiping metal such Dimmu-Borgir. Being a Christian, you can understand why I don't really like Black Metal :/
Mathcore - A sort of Progressive Metal-ish genre with fast paced riffs and EXTREMELY technical playing. Example, Protest the Hero (which many of you know I think is the best band of all time...OF ALL TIME!)
That's just my opinion on some genres though.
" @Ahmad_Metallic said:" @AlwaysAngry said:It would be interesting, and I understand that because I used to be like that, but now it seems everyone has a different genre for one song. Nothing is really right or wrong anymore :/" @Ahmad_Metallic said:i sure did" @Whisperkill said:I believe you meant to write "Death" there. "" Not well. I can define Metalcore. That's about it. What's the difference between black metal and death metal anyway. "As a wikipedia page can quickly tell you, Black Metal is the evil metal based on witchcraft and magic and anti-Christianity, noted for it's high-pitched (crazy) singing, and extreme and sharp guitar play. while Black Metal is the opposite: it has deep growls and very thick guitar riffs, usually death-themed. "
@AlwaysAngry said:" @Ahmad_Metallic said:Um, if you're talking to me, i never said i base whether i like or dislike a song, on it's genre :S I said its important and interesting to know the different genres and tell them apart and compare them. And your lake example sucks ass :P i really have no interest in explaining why subgenres matter and why they're so interesting, if you dont get it then you really just dont "" @MattyFTM said:Sorry, but no. If you ever would shun a band because of genre, you're not a real metal fan. It's like those kids that are all: "Whoa d00d! This music PWNZ! What's the genre?" "Anus-pop-explosion v2.0" "Oh, then I don't like this song anymore." And if you're not like that and genre is meaningless, who cares what genre it is? It's like driving by a lake and then having to pull over because you MUST know what PH balance in the water. Meaningless. "" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that. All you should care about are two genres: Songs you like, and Songs you don't like. I couldn't care less about defining genre's and crap like that. Either I like a song, or I don't, it's that simple. What category of metal it falls into is meaningless. "It's meaningless to you because you dont seem to have enough interest in metal (if at all) as much as most metalheads do. I respect your "like / dislike" policy, and u should respect how essential genre definition is to hardcore fans :) It's like a hobby to listen to a record and try to capture the sound and notice the elements and then define it, which can be followed by comparing it to other albums, or bands. "
But here's my opinions,
Death Metal - Low, dark vocals. Always fast paced with heavy riffing and no breakdowns like in other metal genres. Example - Cryptopsy.
Death-core - Death Metal mixed with metalcore. Breakdowns, pig squealing, and pretty much a toned down version of Death Metal. Example - Job for a Cowboy.
Metalcore - A mixture between hardcore bands such as A Day to Remember and oldschool metal bands like Metallica (no link necessary...I hope.)
Black Metal - Simple, demonic, Satan-worshiping metal such Dimmu-Borgir. Being a Christian, you can understand why I don't really like Black Metal :/
Mathcore - A sort of Progressive Metal-ish genre with fast paced riffs and EXTREMELY technical playing. Example, Protest the Hero (which many of you know I think is the best band of all time...OF ALL TIME!) That's just my opinion on some genres though. "
You've got it all right, man, but there are a few things you're missing. For example, Black Metal is also about cold, relentless, fast-moving instruments and vocals that usually sound like death metal but much higher pitched. How would I know all of this, considering the fact that I hate the genre too? It's called unblack metal, which is pretty awesome.
You're also missing a few other genres, such as Doom Metal (Black Sabbath-esque metal music), sludge metal (Southern music that takes a lot of influence from doom), Groove Metal (A child of thrash metal, and, to a MUCH lesser extent, death metal; consists of harsh vocals and rythymic riffs), and there are just so many others that I could name but don't have the time to.
Over a year ago, I didn't know the difference between these so I looked them up on the internet (learned the hard way about black), but I believe I have a pretty good grasp on metal.
It's the same as knowing one jazz trumpeter from another, or sax player etc. Don't let anyone get all elitist on you bro. If you don't spend time studying something, you won't know it by ear. People who study it can get really pompous about it. I can't stand people that are like that. It's annoying.
You're spending too much time thinking about it. You're not supposed to think about metal, you're just supposed to listen to it and enjoy it.
And I've never associated death metal with actual death, just more with the level of metalosity. For example, listen to stuff like Black Sabbath and Metallica, and half of their songs are about death, yet neither is considered a death metal band (Sabbath being classic metal, and Metallica being thrash).
The only reason I look at the genre of music is to find other music in that genre. That's what they are there for. It's for the band to decide what genre they are in. It pisses people oof when they do that, I remember the Sex Pistol's lead guy ranting when he heard Green Day was labelled as Punk.
Yeah, that shit is purely a device the music industry created and uses to group things into chunks that will be easier for the masses to digest." Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that.
I must admit, though, that I sometimes have a difficult time distinguishing Death Metal from Melodic Death Metal, Metalcore, and Deathcore. Also, I once heard a song by At the Gates(Blinded by Fear), and I thought it was Black Metal with the high-pitched growling; it turned out to be melodic death metal.
" @MattyFTM said:Not really.Yeah, that shit is purely a device the music industry created and uses to group things into chunks that will be easier for the masses to digest. "" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that.
" @ProfessorEss said:To each there own I guess." @MattyFTM said:Not really. "Yeah, that shit is purely a device the music industry created and uses to group things into chunks that will be easier for the masses to digest. "" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that.
If you like to consider it useful tool for deciding what you like and don't like that's fine I suppose.
I just prefer to let the music speak for itself.
In regards to the original question: Quite well, I'd like to think.
It's not some sort of elitism or a requirement. Well, it could be... if you're a dick. But for most, it just a way of quickly explaining what a band sounds like in a huge sub-section of music that can have greatly varying sounds and styles.
Hell, I'm pretty sure most other sorts of music have just as many intricate genre definitions. It's just that most loudmouth idiot metal-heads seem to make a big deal about it. :P
A lot. Black metal often focuses on sheer speed, intensity and atmosphere while death metal is more riff and melody oriented. Of course it depends on which type of death metal we're talking about here. American death metal is a completely different beast than Scandinavian melodic death metal. Melodic death metal shares a number of characteristics with power metal (Keyboards, noticeable melodies etc.) while standard death metal can at times be similar to thrash metal. Black metal is an entirely different animal because it can range from incredibly simple (But fast!) stuff like early Mayhem to incredibly complex, symphonic sounding music." Not well. I can define Metalcore. That's about it. What's the difference between black metal and death metal anyway. "
Black metal:
Melodic Death Metal:
regular death metal:
@habster3 said:
At The Gates was a part of a metal scene in Gothenburg that was partly responsible for the creation of melodic death metal. If you listen to some modern melodic death metal bands you will notice similarities (vocal style, guitar harmony stuff etc.). Quite a solid band if you ask me."I must admit, though, that I sometimes have a difficult time distinguishing Death Metal from Melodic Death Metal, Metalcore, and Deathcore. Also, I once heard a song by At the Gates(Blinded by Fear), and I thought it was Black Metal with the high-pitched growling; it turned out to be melodic death metal."
" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that. All you should care about are two genres: Songs you like, and Songs you don't like. I couldn't care less about defining genre's and crap like that. Either I like a song, or I don't, it's that simple. What category of metal it falls into is meaningless. "Same for me. That sub-genre shit gets waaaaaaay too complicated, to the point where I don't even think most people into the stuff know all of the little minor differences between them. I see a lot of people arguing about it.
Yeah no. allow me to disagree :) a big part of metal music's uniqueness is the big variety of sounds, guitar tones, vocals and lyrics that turn metal into a big universe.. If you listen to metal just to enjoy what u hear, i think you're missing out !" You're spending too much time thinking about it. You're not supposed to think about metal, you're just supposed to listen to it and enjoy it. . "
@Phazon said:
" I agree with the 'like/dislike' philosophy. I don't care if Pantera is "groove metal" or "thrash metal", I'll like it just the same. It's really irritating when all these metalheads keep microcategorizing every fucking band, it's like every one has it's own genre. It's almost as annoying as seeing the top comment on every metal song on youtube is about bashing a pop star. So fucking elitist, it's annoying. "
@Lydian_Sel said:
@ProfessorEss said:" You don't. You leave all of that pointless shit to journalist who are more than comfortable tagging your favourite acts with vague labels that make you cringe & only describe what they do at face value. "
" @MattyFTM said:
Yeah, that shit is purely a device the music industry created and uses to group things into chunks that will be easier for the masses to digest. "" Just forget about subgenres of music and crap like that.
Allow me to answer the three of you with a quote of myself :
@Ahmad_Metallic said:
It's fun. its challenging. its meaningful. it makes Metal the badass multi-faced monster with that it is. Trust me, it is incredibly pleasant to spend a day listening to Amorphis' old albums, then move on to the new one, and see how the sound changed and how the change is explained in genre-talk, and also compare the albums to a band of a similar genre and see the similarities and differences.... Metal isnt another mindless 4-minute get-up-and-dance genre, its a universe on its own !" It's like a hobby to listen to a record and try to capture the sound and notice the elements and then define it, which can be followed by comparing it to other albums, or bands. "
Also, read this :
@SubwayD said:
" It's not some sort of elitism or a requirement. Well, it could be... if you're a dick. But for most, it just a way of quickly explaining what a band sounds like in a huge sub-section of music that can have greatly varying sounds and styles. "
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