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#51 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

#52 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@Jay444111 said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Jay444111 said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Jay444111 said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@Jay444111:

And what of the rest of humanity? From what I've seen, they're quite quick to think up a concept for some other form of life and immediately assume it wants them dead for no goddamn reason.

Those are the dickheads and the ones that cannot accept the future, there are people who are truly willing to accept anything as long as it isn't obviously bad. Hell, I will flat out go up to protesters who may be picking on a robot and I will flat out be as racist sounding as possible to any person in the crowd. Doesn't matter how big it is. I will show them an example of hatred from years ago and why hatred is a flawed mechanic in today's society. Of course I am not racist, but I would gladly demonstrate it if it meant protecting a new species of beings.

Let's be racist to show racists that they are racist and racism is bad.

I would be more like demonstrating how racism in the past worked and how the people are continuing one of the dumbest cycles in human history. That is more like how it would be.

I think that's perpetuating racism more than abolishing it if all you are doing is being racist back.

Not really, when people are kicking around a robot just because it is a robot is the same level as racism as other people have had to deal with years ago. Maybe because I am a Native American that I feel this way. But fuck man, if something has enough intelligence to commuticate with us should get the same rights as humans unless they have a weird way about them that needs more elaborate rights for them. But seriously, if a crowd was picking a defenseless robot and if the robot was actually sobbing. (somehow.) wouldn't you go do everything in your power to help it/he/her/whatever it wants to be called? It is not right on any level whatsoever to do such a horrible thing to anything like that!

People would just say "But it's just a robot.", even if it can feel pain they will still see it as a hunk of metal. As long as they know that the robot was made they will refuse to consider it alive.

Yet it feels emotions? It feels love? it feels pain? it feels happiness, sadness and all that? And the fact of the matter that WE have that and we could easily be made just the same as a robot with cloning technology? No, fuck that. A being that exists DESERVES the right to exist and be equal with all other species, doesn't fucking matter if they say it is just a robot, the people who say that are less than dogshit and less than fucking human at that point. A being that exists should have the chance to exist to be what it wants to be and have the chance at a happy existence. Otherwise we are worse than nazis at that point. Other than the jews who are human, we would instead switch it with a ENTIRE species of beings which is a level of fucked up never seen before.

#53 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Yet we as humans could easily be recreated with cloning technology. Whats your point?

#54 Posted by lavaman77 (567 posts) -

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

#55 Posted by Arker101 (1474 posts) -

A robot bird in the hand is worth two robot birds in the bush.

#56 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

Aside from being synthetic what exactly would separate a robot from a human being if they can desire,think,and have free will? this is a question that i've asked when i've seen Bladerunner and it's a question that BSG explored a lot.

I think therefore i am. I'm really interested to see what you guys think. I think that we're not that much different.

If a car has free will and can think and desire isn't it human? No it's Herbie The Love Bug.

If a dog has free will and can think and desire isn't it human? No it's a dog with free will and desire. So, a dog.

#57 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

THANK YOU! It is basically the same damn thing but with different materials!

#58 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Yet we as humans could easily be recreated with cloning technology. Whats your point?

My point is that there is a difference.

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

#59 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5094 posts) -

@Jay444111: You should do everything in your power to protect it. I don't know how being racist back is going to do any good. You can tell them that it's wrong, you can take the robot in and stop the fight but you shouldn't be racist towards the crowd. You should try to make people realize that racism is wrong by pointing to the past and how it has lead to bloodshed and pain. You shouldn't throw around racially charged words to show people that racism is bad because they'll think you're a bit racist too. All it would do is confuse your argument.

And technically robots would never be considered humans because humans are homo sapiens. Now a robot would be a sapient and as such should have the same rights as us. Let's use Mass Effect as an example. Salarians/Turians/Asari/Humans all have the same rights but a human isn't a Turian, a Turian isn't an Asari and so on.

@Video_Game_King said:

@SethPhotopoulos:

Yea, they fucking do. How else are they supposed to afford housing? Or fuel? Or yearly maintenance check-ups? Or emotions (that's some expensive-ass software)? Or more memory? You don't really know how the robot life functions, do you?

(I was subtly trying to bring down the robots by making it seem like they could self sustain so no one would hire them leading to their downfall.)

#60 Posted by wefwefasdf (6729 posts) -

@lavaman77: Having consciousness isn't the definition of a human.

#61 Posted by Godlyawesomeguy (6385 posts) -

It could be, but does it not matter that it is mechanically made, as opposed to organic as humans are? Shouldn't its creation be taken into account? Does this have anything to do with that short Quantic Dream put out?

#62 Edited by lavaman77 (567 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@lavaman77 said:

@Jay444111 said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Jay444111 said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Jay444111 said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@Jay444111:

And what of the rest of humanity? From what I've seen, they're quite quick to think up a concept for some other form of life and immediately assume it wants them dead for no goddamn reason.

Those are the dickheads and the ones that cannot accept the future, there are people who are truly willing to accept anything as long as it isn't obviously bad. Hell, I will flat out go up to protesters who may be picking on a robot and I will flat out be as racist sounding as possible to any person in the crowd. Doesn't matter how big it is. I will show them an example of hatred from years ago and why hatred is a flawed mechanic in today's society. Of course I am not racist, but I would gladly demonstrate it if it meant protecting a new species of beings.

Let's be racist to show racists that they are racist and racism is bad.

I would be more like demonstrating how racism in the past worked and how the people are continuing one of the dumbest cycles in human history. That is more like how it would be.

I think that's perpetuating racism more than abolishing it if all you are doing is being racist back.

Not really, when people are kicking around a robot just because it is a robot is the same level as racism as other people have had to deal with years ago. Maybe because I am a Native American that I feel this way. But fuck man, if something has enough intelligence to commuticate with us should get the same rights as humans unless they have a weird way about them that needs more elaborate rights for them. But seriously, if a crowd was picking a defenseless robot and if the robot was actually sobbing. (somehow.) wouldn't you go do everything in your power to help it/he/her/whatever it wants to be called? It is not right on any level whatsoever to do such a horrible thing to anything like that!

People would just say "But it's just a robot.", even if it can feel pain they will still see it as a hunk of metal. As long as they know that the robot was made they will refuse to consider it alive.

Yet it feels emotions? It feels love? it feels pain? it feels happiness, sadness and all that? And the fact of the matter that WE have that and we could easily be made just the same as a robot with cloning technology? No, fuck that. A being that exists DESERVES the right to exist and be equal with all other species, doesn't fucking matter if they say it is just a robot, the people who say that are less than dogshit and less than fucking human at that point. A being that exists should have the chance to exist to be what it wants to be and have the chance at a happy existence. Otherwise we are worse than nazis at that point. Other than the jews who are human, we would instead switch it with a ENTIRE species of beings which is a level of fucked up never seen before.

I agree completely.

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

If it's at the same level as a human then yes. It deserves equal treatment and rights.

@Godlyawesomeguy said:

It could be, but does it not matter that it is mechanically made, as opposed to organic as humans are? Shouldn't its creation be taken into account? Does this have anything to do with that short Quantic Dream put out?

What short?

@myshutup said:

If you're really interested in this topic, I recommend the following reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turring_test, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functionalism_(philosophy_of_mind).

My answer: Yes, you can build a machine that thinks like a person does. Because, obviously, there's no such thing as a soul or ego--it's just an emergent property that arises from enough calculations.

Thanks!

#63 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Jay444111: You should do everything in your power to protect it. I don't know how being racist back is going to do any good. You can tell them that it's wrong, you can take the robot in and stop the fight but you shouldn't be racist towards the crowd. You should try to make people realize that racism is wrong by pointing to the past and how it has lead to bloodshed and pain. You shouldn't throw around racially charged words to show people that racism is bad because they'll think you're a bit racist too. All it would do is confuse your argument.

And technically robots would never be considered humans because humans are homo sapiens. Now a robot would be a sapient and as such should have the same rights as us. Let's use Mass Effect as an example. Salarians/Turians/Asari/Humans all have the same rights but a human isn't a Turian, a Turian isn't an Asari and so on.

True, sorry about all that, I got mixed up in the heat of the moment mainly because I have had people beating on me because I was a Native American in public school in the first three grades constantly. CONSTANTLY. So yeah... I get pissed off when it comes to this stuff.

Yet a Robot deserves just as much respect as a human though, they have the right to exist just as much as any human does, sure, we will have to update laws and even make newer rights. But making them LESSER beings than us because of bullshit is shit that won't fly in my fucking court.

Basically peaceful coexistence is what really should be gained as soon as possible so we can avoid all the suffering. I think we as humans should finally grow up from that shit once this happens IMHO.

#64 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5094 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

If it's at the same level as a human then yes. It deserves equal treatment and rights.

Human's are homo sapiens. You cannot create homo sapiens from mechanical parts. It is a robot. It probably deserves equal treatment but it isn't human. It just has human qualities.

#65 Edited by lavaman77 (567 posts) -

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

If it's at the same level as a human then yes. It deserves equal treatment and rights.

Human's are homo sapiens. You cannot create homo sapiens from mechanical parts. It is a robot. It probably deserves equal treatment but it isn't human. It just has human qualities.

Physically, but mentally if they're equal then how are they different from us?

Can the created ever be at the same level as the creator?

#66 Posted by Godlyawesomeguy (6385 posts) -

@lavaman77: This one:

A fascinating topic to be sure, and I hope something is done by Quantic Dream to capitalize on the potential, especially given their track record for creating believable drama in games.

#67 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

Also, personal Note, I am Christian, and I do believe in the existence of a soul. (Trust me. I have very personal expierences with this stuff.) When a robot being is made. I won't be one of the assholes that says that it doesn't have a soul. I would be like, "cool! a robot with a soul!" I believe, IMO, that the soul is freewill, emotions, and many other components of what makes a mind... a mind. If a machine can have that too, they might as well have souls as well.

Also. Let us NOT ever make a martyr out of a robot at any point in time whatsoever unless it did evil shit like kill a farm for babies or something. Because we could end up with the robots personal SAVIOR themselves and this whole religious thing could get a little more insane then before!

Sure, some people will disagree with me, but you know what, fuck you then! Because a being that exists and has everything that a human can have, more or less. has a fucking soul IMO!

#68 Posted by Viking_Funeral (1731 posts) -

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

Sentient, not human.

Pretty much this.

Free will is also a debate. If mankind programs all the reactions that a robot would have to outside stimuli, is it really making any choices on its own? It can adapt to new situations perhaps, but again, the ability to adapt and how exactly it adapts is a matter of debate.

I'm not even going to get into determinism.

#69 Posted by Korwin (2824 posts) -

It's sentient, it's not Human.

#70 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@Korwin said:

It's sentient, it's not Human.

.........yet................................

It has a right to exist! That is the next thing you are supposed to say! Just saying that makes it seem like you feel greater than them and that is basically racism dammit! I am offended!

#71 Posted by JasonR86 (9604 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@Korwin said:

It's sentient, it's not Human.

.........yet................................

It has a right to exist! That is the next thing you are supposed to say! Just saying that makes it seem like you feel greater than them and that is basically racism dammit! I am offended!

That's not racism. You need to read more or look up words or something before you post on a public forum.

#72 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

I still maintain that Jay is a troll character.

#73 Posted by lavaman77 (567 posts) -

@Godlyawesomeguy said:

@lavaman77: This one:

A fascinating topic to be sure, and I hope something is done by Quantic Dream to capitalize on the potential, especially given their track record for creating believable drama in games.

Woah! TAKE ALL OF MY MONEY!

#74 Posted by JasonR86 (9604 posts) -

@SeriouslyNow said:

I still maintain that Jay is a troll character.

He absolutely is and I fucking fall for it almost every time. I just learn to stay away from anything attached to him.

#75 Posted by crusader8463 (14413 posts) -
#76 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111 said:

@Korwin said:

It's sentient, it's not Human.

.........yet................................

It has a right to exist! That is the next thing you are supposed to say! Just saying that makes it seem like you feel greater than them and that is basically racism dammit! I am offended!

That's not racism. You need to read more or look up words or something before you post on a public forum.

Okay! Then... specieist or syntheticist... We need to make a name for robot racism actually... We should discuss this sometime.

@SeriouslyNow said:

I still maintain that Jay is a troll character.

I am no troll, I am just really adamant about treating everyone with damn respect like a good being WOULD.

#77 Edited by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

I still maintain that Jay is a troll character.

He absolutely is and I fucking fall for it almost every time. I just learn to stay away from anything attached to him.

NIPPLES EVERYWHERE!!!!

Shit is now on the NIPPLE!

Sorry... but if you are going to call me a troll, than I am going to have fun with it then. Until you treat me with respect I will not treat you with respect then. Unless we agree to not anger each other, I am cool with that as well or you can say sorry and we can just keep things going like usual.

#78 Edited by lavaman77 (567 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@Korwin said:

It's sentient, it's not Human.

.........yet................................

It has a right to exist! That is the next thing you are supposed to say! Just saying that makes it seem like you feel greater than them and that is basically racism dammit! I am offended!

If it came to existence because of us then how do they have a right to exist? since we created them, they basically have no rights other than the ones we allow them to have. If we want to, we can prevent them from getting any rights at all and we wouldn't be evil for doing so.

#79 Posted by mlarrabee (2885 posts) -

A human can be born with greater intelligence than anyone in its ancestral line, and may still improve itself through interactions with others of similar or lower intelligence levels. A robot is restricted to to the knowledge inputted by the designer, and while it may learn more from its fellows, it can never learn more from any others of identical or lesser knowledge.

Any robot programmed with introspective self-awareness would simply be a ghost-machine copy of the programmer, albeit with a good deal more bugs.

If a robot had free will, desires, and consciousness of self, it would be a personality. Not human, which is a species, not even a person, but a personality.

#80 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

What "level" are you referring to? Also, who/what determines if something is at the same "level" as a human? Anything over 9000 would be considered a Super Saiyan, right?

#81 Edited by lavaman77 (567 posts) -

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

What "level" are you referring to? Also, who/what determines if something is at the same "level" as a human? Anything over 9000 would be considered a Super Saiyan, right?

If the only differences between you and the robot is the source you came from and what you're made of, isn't it just as human as you're? mentally ofc not physically.

#82 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

What "level" are you referring to? Also, who/what determines if something is at the same "level" as a human? Anything over 9000 would be considered a Super Saiyan, right?

If the only differences between you and the robot is the source you came from and what you're made of, isn't it just as human as you're? mentally ofc not physically.

Way to not answer my questions.

#83 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@Jay444111 said:

@Korwin said:

It's sentient, it's not Human.

.........yet................................

It has a right to exist! That is the next thing you are supposed to say! Just saying that makes it seem like you feel greater than them and that is basically racism dammit! I am offended!

If it came to existence because of us then how do they have a right to exist? since we created them, they basically have no rights other than the ones we allow them to have. If we want to, we can prevent them from getting any rights at all and we wouldn't be evil for doing so.

Yet we would be just as horrible as nazis in that regard. We can give them rules but if they have freewill they could easily go away from that and commit crimes. SOME of them to commit crimes. Yet that would be a far better world to live in than one where we enslave an entire race of beings that should have a right and say of what they want to do themselves! If we are to create a synthetic lifeform than we did it and we should feel proud of ourselves, but controlling them? Forcing them to do things which they don't want to do? that is slavery an absolute slavery of a race of beings we created which is a level of fucked up which I myself would go against TOOTH AND FUCKING NAIL.

Everything should have the chance to be happy, that is one of my mantras. Robots have that right just as much as any human as long as they have the capabilities to understand, form choices and thoughts like us. Than good for them! We should then leave them alone unless they either start a war or harm us or violate our laws.

Just because we would create them does not mean they should serve just us! This is basically the same type of arguement that SMT Strange Journey makes, but instead of robots it's humans and instead of humans its angels and demons.

#84 Edited by Strife777 (1500 posts) -

What I wonder is, when does a robot become a human, and a human become a robot? If Robocop is considered a robot when he's a human who's body was largely replaced with machine, does the same apply for a robot who has an electronic brain, but a biological body? At what point does one become the other, if any?

Come to think of it, we should call them cyborgs, considering the definition of the word.

Edit: Also, when it comes to the debate of their rights as sentient robots. I believe that if you create anything that is capable of free will and sentience, it should be as free as you are, otherwise don't give it that ability in the first place.

#85 Edited by Akyho (1585 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:


@Akyho said:

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

Sentient, not human.

Exactly. My cat could become the same level of intelligence and sentience as humans. However it is not human. It is a sentient cat.

A Robot would still be a Robot however a sentient robot.

Yet you would look down upon it as a cat than a equal like it would deserve?

NO! Because I am not racist or specieist . There is all kinds of people in the world and I treat them all as the same on a basic level. That we are being revolving on this planet and need to get along. Hell I treat my cat as it is right now as a human more than a "dumb" animal as some people would say.

So no. sentient Robot, sentient cat or non sentient , stupid or smart human. Feeling or no feelings, I treat them as a beings.

#86 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5094 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

If it's at the same level as a human then yes. It deserves equal treatment and rights.

Human's are homo sapiens. You cannot create homo sapiens from mechanical parts. It is a robot. It probably deserves equal treatment but it isn't human. It just has human qualities.

Physically, but mentally if they're equal then how are they different from us?

Can the created ever be at the same level as the creator?

If robots began to think like us than the only difference would be the body and it would be like another sentient species. There would be no real difference except the individual experiences. They wouldn't be human but something just as great.

@Jay444111 said:

@Korwin said:

It's sentient, it's not Human.

.........yet................................

It has a right to exist! That is the next thing you are supposed to say! Just saying that makes it seem like you feel greater than them and that is basically racism dammit! I am offended!

Humans are homo sapiens. Robots can never be. They would be a separate species. It would be like if Neanderthals had survived and evolved to a similar intelligence and compassion as a human. They should be treated the same but they aren't human. Human a term used to make ourselves feel better. I'm a male that doesn't mean I'm using that term to make myself feel superior to women. Biologically we are just different.

#87 Edited by lavaman77 (567 posts) -

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

What "level" are you referring to? Also, who/what determines if something is at the same "level" as a human? Anything over 9000 would be considered a Super Saiyan, right?

If the only differences between you and the robot is the source you came from and what you're made of, isn't it just as human as you're? mentally ofc not physically.

Way to not answer my questions.

I did answer your questions. The level is at the same level of IQ,ability to feel,think,feel pain, of a human being. If a robot and a human being speak to you over the phone and you can't tell which is which then that's good enough to determine it on the same level of a human being. If robots can learn,think,feel and the only thing that gives them off as robots are the looks or what's on the inside then it's conscious is on the same level of a human. As such doesn't it deserve equal treatment as a human being since there would be no differences between the two aside from the physical ones?

FYI everyone, i am talking about robots that are very advanced to the point that they are impossible to tell from a human being without cutting them up and seeing that they're a robot.

@Strife777 said:

What I wonder is, when does a robot become a human, and a human become a robot? If Robocop is considered a robot when he's a human who's body was largely replaced with machine, does the same apply for a robot who has an electronic brain, but a biological body? At what point does one become the other, if any?

Come to think of it, we should call them cyborgs, considering the definition of the word.

Edit: Also, when it comes to the debate of their rights as sentient robots. I believe that if you create anything that is capable of free will and sentience, it should be as free as you are, otherwise don't give it that ability in the first place.

That's exactly why im interested in the subject, they will be a point in time where the line will be blurred between the two to the point that we virtually become one and the same.

I loved the protests and human purists in Deus Ex.

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@lavaman77 said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

If it's at the same level as a human then yes. It deserves equal treatment and rights.

Human's are homo sapiens. You cannot create homo sapiens from mechanical parts. It is a robot. It probably deserves equal treatment but it isn't human. It just has human qualities.

Physically, but mentally if they're equal then how are they different from us?

Can the created ever be at the same level as the creator?

If robots began to think like us than the only difference would be the body and it would be like another sentient species. There would be no real difference except the individual experiences. They wouldn't be human but something just as great.

If at some point in time they start to use cloned organs and flesh but with a half-organic half-synthetic mind... are they human? what's exactly the difference between us at that stage?

#88 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

What "level" are you referring to? Also, who/what determines if something is at the same "level" as a human? Anything over 9000 would be considered a Super Saiyan, right?

If the only differences between you and the robot is the source you came from and what you're made of, isn't it just as human as you're? mentally ofc not physically.

Way to not answer my questions.

I did answer your questions. The level is at the same level of IQ,ability to feel,think,feel pain, of a human being. If a robot and a human being speak to you over the phone and you can't tell which is which then that's good enough to determine it on the same level of a human being. If robots can learn,think,feel and the only thing that gives them off as robots are the looks or what's on the inside then it's conscious is on the same level of a human. As such doesn't it deserve equal treatment as a human being since there would be no differences between the two aside from the physical ones?

FYI everyone, i am talking about robots that are very advanced to the point that they are impossible to tell from a human being without cutting them up and seeing that they're a robot.

So how do you know that other living things aren't as smart as humans, or even smarter for that matter? Our definition of intelligent could be different from that of other living things. How do you know other living things don't feel, or think the way humans do? What makes you think the human way of thinking is the right way to think?

#89 Edited by dogman795 (109 posts) -

I think the OP is just using the wrong word to describe, basically, something we're all agreeing on.

While it wouldn't biologically be a human (homo sapien, a type of animal, which is organic), it could still be mentally/ideologically (legally, even) considered human. So it would be sentient. A chimp is sentient. Humans are sentient. It would be a sentient robot, but still a synthetic life-form.

@lavaman77: Your avatar is Javik, so I assume you like Mass Effect. Are the Geth sentient robots/synthetics, or do you consider them to be humans? For that matter, are the Quarians and Asari humans, or are they Quarians and Asari?

#90 Edited by lavaman77 (567 posts) -

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

@lavaman77 said:

@BraveToaster said:

No, it's a still a fucking robot.

Your brain is a computer made of flesh, how are you different from a robot that happens to be made from a different source?

You were created in your mother's womb, it was created in a factory. Both of you now can think,feel, and have desires.

So, anything that thinks, feels, and has desires can be considered human?

What "level" are you referring to? Also, who/what determines if something is at the same "level" as a human? Anything over 9000 would be considered a Super Saiyan, right?

If the only differences between you and the robot is the source you came from and what you're made of, isn't it just as human as you're? mentally ofc not physically.

Way to not answer my questions.

I did answer your questions. The level is at the same level of IQ,ability to feel,think,feel pain, of a human being. If a robot and a human being speak to you over the phone and you can't tell which is which then that's good enough to determine it on the same level of a human being. If robots can learn,think,feel and the only thing that gives them off as robots are the looks or what's on the inside then it's conscious is on the same level of a human. As such doesn't it deserve equal treatment as a human being since there would be no differences between the two aside from the physical ones?

FYI everyone, i am talking about robots that are very advanced to the point that they are impossible to tell from a human being without cutting them up and seeing that they're a robot.

So how do you know that other living things aren't as smart as humans, or even smarter for that matter? Our definition of intelligent could be different from that of other living things. How do you know other living things don't feel, or think the way humans do? What makes you think the human way of thinking is the right way to think?

Who drove several creatures to extinction? Humans. Who landed on the moon? Humans. Who created electronic devices? Humans. Who enslaved and dominated the animal kingdom? Humans. You seem to have steered off way too far from my question. My question was about the difference of a human being and a robot, if the only differences are the physical ones than how can you consider them lower than you and not worthy of equal rights and treatment?

If you kill a robot that is on the same level as a human, wouldn't it be murder? should it get worse treatment than animals just for being synthetic?

#91 Posted by J12088 (435 posts) -

No. If an alien visited earth would that be considered human just cause it has free will and desires? free will and desire is not the be all end all definition of a human.

#92 Edited by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@Akyho said:

@Jay444111 said:


@Akyho said:

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

Sentient, not human.

Exactly. My cat could become the same level of intelligence and sentience as humans. However it is not human. It is a sentient cat.

A Robot would still be a Robot however a sentient robot.

Yet you would look down upon it as a cat than a equal like it would deserve?

NO! Because I am not racist or specieist . There is all kinds of people in the world and I treat them all as the same on a basic level. That we are being revolving on this planet and need to get along. Hell I treat my cat as it is right now as a human more than a "dumb" animal as some people would say.

So no. sentient Robot, sentient cat or non sentient , stupid or smart human. Feeling or no feelings, I treat them as a beings.

I wish to insert the hand clapping gif of Orson Welles from Citizens Kane here... but I am unable to do so because I do not know how! However, I fully agree, they wouldn't be human but we should all treat them as beings should be treated. With kindness, fairness, happyiness, all that jazz. Otherwise we humans would be lower than even dirt then IMO.

#93 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -

I wouldn't say it's human, but I would call it a person.

#94 Edited by Korwin (2824 posts) -

@lavaman77 said:

@Jay444111 said:

@Korwin said:

It's sentient, it's not Human.

.........yet................................

It has a right to exist! That is the next thing you are supposed to say! Just saying that makes it seem like you feel greater than them and that is basically racism dammit! I am offended!

If it came to existence because of us then how do they have a right to exist? since we created them, they basically have no rights other than the ones we allow them to have. If we want to, we can prevent them from getting any rights at all and we wouldn't be evil for doing so.

I'm not denying the machines right to exist, or it's rights as a sentient being. It's still alive, it's just not Human. It's no more Human than I am a Turtle.

#95 Posted by Gamer_152 (14051 posts) -

I think it's largely been covered by other users, but if it truly felt, thought, and desired in the same way an organic lifeform does, as opposed to some kind of emulation of these traits, and we had proof of this, it could be called sentient. However, it could not be called human. If emotion, desire, and thought was all it took for something to be classified as human then there'd be no distinction between humans and cats. What's more you say "aside from being synthetic" in your opening post, but I don't think it's really fair to just throw that idea in there. Simply, if something is clearly not biologically human, then we're not going to call it human, no matter how human-like it may be in terms of thought processes. The "free will" part of the equation also presents a bit of a problem, because there's no universal consensus on whether humans even have free will.

Moderator
#96 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@lavaman77: It's programmed to do so...so no.

#97 Posted by RubberBabyBuggyBumpers (713 posts) -

@Godak said:

Well, the robot is better at math...

so are asians......

#98 Posted by Village_Guy (2491 posts) -

I'm just going to say what pretty much everybody else have already said - just with different words.

I would call that sentient, since I don't consider other animals that can think, have desires and have free will, human - but rather another sentient being.

#99 Posted by BigChickenDinner (766 posts) -

@RubberBabyBuggyBumpers said:

@Godak said:

Well, the robot is better at math...

so are asians......

Clearly you two have never seen asian robots.

#100 Posted by Still_I_Cry (2494 posts) -

No it isn't.