#101 Posted by Ekami (265 posts) -

The inevitable point in all internet arguments where someone veers hard and ends up pro-rape.

#102 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

@ekami: Are you referring to me?

#103 Posted by Ekami (265 posts) -

No sometimes I just say things but it's weird you think i do?

#104 Edited by golguin (3972 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

@haffy:

You can't have a healthy, good conversation if no one wants to talk to you. This isn't a war of attrition and emotions are going to come into this conversation about rape whether you want it to or not. Pretending like emotions don't matter doesn't make them not matter especially when those that you are talking to are emotional. So all you're going to do is piss people off and that's not helpful in a discussion.

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

#105 Edited by ImmortalSaiyan (4690 posts) -

Fuck em. Yeah, their lives are ruined due to a mistake. Maybe they feel bad for it but regardless of what happens to them the victim is still off much worse.

#106 Edited by Ekami (265 posts) -

Helpful tip for this thread: if anyone just though my joke was about them, then they should go grab a cup of coffee and play with their dog because this is no longer a fun thing they should be doing

#107 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

@golguin said:

@jasonr86 said:

@haffy:

You can't have a healthy, good conversation if no one wants to talk to you. This isn't a war of attrition and emotions are going to come into this conversation about rape whether you want it to or not. Pretending like emotions don't matter doesn't make them not matter especially when those that you are talking to are emotional. So all you're going to do is piss people off and that's not helpful in a discussion.

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

If you want to infer I condone rape go ahead, but it just makes the whole argument silly and not my worth my time.

#108 Posted by JasonR86 (9744 posts) -

@golguin said:

@jasonr86 said:

@haffy:

You can't have a healthy, good conversation if no one wants to talk to you. This isn't a war of attrition and emotions are going to come into this conversation about rape whether you want it to or not. Pretending like emotions don't matter doesn't make them not matter especially when those that you are talking to are emotional. So all you're going to do is piss people off and that's not helpful in a discussion.

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

Sorry sorry.

#109 Edited by golguin (3972 posts) -

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@jasonr86 said:

@haffy:

You can't have a healthy, good conversation if no one wants to talk to you. This isn't a war of attrition and emotions are going to come into this conversation about rape whether you want it to or not. Pretending like emotions don't matter doesn't make them not matter especially when those that you are talking to are emotional. So all you're going to do is piss people off and that's not helpful in a discussion.

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

If you want to infer I condone rape go ahead, but it just makes the whole argument silly and not my worth my time.

I don't need to infer anything. Your comments are crystal clear, which is why I urge you to speak your mind. This is a safe place. Please continue.

#110 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@golguin said:

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

I'm legitimately curious if there are people out there who literally think like that. Is there a sort of watch list we can get this guy on?

#111 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
#112 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@andorski said:

Apparently you cannot have sympathy for terrible people.

Uhhhh. It's not about that, bro. The anchors focused almost entirely on how this will affect the rapists future and their families rather than the girl who was raped by multiple guys (read: pieces of shit). Their future is pretty set in stone and it's entirely their fault. The victim is who should be given sympathy by these anchors.

You forgot to add the boys put the pictures on the internet and sent lots of texts about it. Pictures online that will never go away...

#113 Edited by envane (1164 posts) -
@haffy said:

@envane: I'm sorry but who are you to say for sure who's life is worse off? I don't really care for your guess about my feelings towards women, I don't really feel the need to defend myself on it.

@jasonr86: I try to make my posts clear and concise because it's a situation where emotional arguments aren't helpful one bit in my opinion. So if I seem insensitive, it's not exactly intentional, but I think it's a much better way to argue about morals and law.

youre right , i cant say for sure whos life is worse off ... but i can make an educated guess , something you and those footballers clearly cant make.. plus if you didnt feel the need to defend yourself and your attitude towards women , why bring that up ? as ive said before i am a victim of child sexual abuse , and im a male if that isnt apparent. I have a deep seated hatred for anyone remotely rapey that i have to fight , or else i would be a murderer. Im glad that we have strict gun laws here because i would have probably shot them "a time to kill" style .. YES they deserve to die , and i hope they burn in hell , so therefore anything lesser than that is lucky on their behalf .. take it or leave it.

#114 Edited by haffy (673 posts) -

@golguin said:

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@jasonr86 said:

@haffy:

You can't have a healthy, good conversation if no one wants to talk to you. This isn't a war of attrition and emotions are going to come into this conversation about rape whether you want it to or not. Pretending like emotions don't matter doesn't make them not matter especially when those that you are talking to are emotional. So all you're going to do is piss people off and that's not helpful in a discussion.

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

If you want to infer I condone rape go ahead, but it just makes the whole argument silly and not my worth my time.

I don't need to infer anything. Your comments are crystal clear, which is why I urge you to speak your mind. This is a safe place. Please continue.

Guess you don't understand the meaning of infer then...

#115 Posted by golguin (3972 posts) -

@golguin said:

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

I'm legitimately curious if there are people out there who literally think like that. Is there a sort of watch list we can get this guy on?

I'm going to help that dude out and say it right here in plain English that women who make false rape claims to ruin the life of the guy they had sex with should be put in jail. They make it harder for women who are legitimately raped (yes, I'm saying that phrase on purpose) to bring charges against real rapists.

I'm going to say that maybe that guy isn't familiar with the details of the case and thinks that view fits this situation. Maybe he isn't aware of the video evidence, the photos, and the texts. I'm giving him a free out right here.

Will he take it?

#116 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

@golguin said:

@ravenlight said:

@golguin said:

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

I'm legitimately curious if there are people out there who literally think like that. Is there a sort of watch list we can get this guy on?

I'm going to help that dude out and say it right here in plain English that women who make false rape claims to ruin the life of the guy they had sex with should be put in jail. They make it harder for women who are legitimately raped (yes, I'm saying that phrase on purpose) to bring charges against real rapists.

I'm going to say that maybe that guy isn't familiar with the details of the case and thinks that view fits this situation. Maybe he isn't aware of the video evidence, the photos, and the texts. I'm giving him a free out right here.

Will he take it?

#36 Edited by haffy (635 posts) - 3 hours, 44 minutes ago

I was given no information about what happened. Only some 6 minute video, where they were sympathizing with the two men. Along with that I know that women will get a shit load more sympathy than a man every will. So sorry I thought that was suspicious considering it's a 16 year old around alcohol. Not like there can ever be two sides to a story.

#117 Edited by golguin (3972 posts) -

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@jasonr86 said:

@haffy:

You can't have a healthy, good conversation if no one wants to talk to you. This isn't a war of attrition and emotions are going to come into this conversation about rape whether you want it to or not. Pretending like emotions don't matter doesn't make them not matter especially when those that you are talking to are emotional. So all you're going to do is piss people off and that's not helpful in a discussion.

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

If you want to infer I condone rape go ahead, but it just makes the whole argument silly and not my worth my time.

I don't need to infer anything. Your comments are crystal clear, which is why I urge you to speak your mind. This is a safe place. Please continue.

Guess you don't understand the meaning of infer then...

Explain the definition and how it's being wrongly used in my statement.

#118 Posted by envane (1164 posts) -

@uniform: yeah.. its fucked up .. speaking for myself , I am only alive here today because i woke up and stopped blaming myself for what happened, it took being hospitalized for me to even realise that i had twisted it around in my head like that , this is the product of telling nobody about it for so long , and trying to own all the pain and guilt and shame that came as a result of that denial.

I cant even fathom how this girl must feel with the media indrectly slut-shaming her , and glorifying these 2 "promising" sociopaths.

#119 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

@golguin said:

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@jasonr86 said:

@haffy:

You can't have a healthy, good conversation if no one wants to talk to you. This isn't a war of attrition and emotions are going to come into this conversation about rape whether you want it to or not. Pretending like emotions don't matter doesn't make them not matter especially when those that you are talking to are emotional. So all you're going to do is piss people off and that's not helpful in a discussion.

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

If you want to infer I condone rape go ahead, but it just makes the whole argument silly and not my worth my time.

I don't need to infer anything. Your comments are crystal clear, which is why I urge you to speak your mind. This is a safe place. Please continue.

Guess you don't understand the meaning of infer then...

Explain the definition and how it's being wrongly used in my statement.

Verb
Deduce or conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.
Synonyms
conclude - deduce - gather - imply - induce

I haven't given my opinion on rape once.

#120 Posted by golguin (3972 posts) -

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@haffy said:

@golguin said:

@jasonr86 said:

@haffy:

You can't have a healthy, good conversation if no one wants to talk to you. This isn't a war of attrition and emotions are going to come into this conversation about rape whether you want it to or not. Pretending like emotions don't matter doesn't make them not matter especially when those that you are talking to are emotional. So all you're going to do is piss people off and that's not helpful in a discussion.

You should really let him speak his mind and stop trying to talk him down from his position. It's obvious from his comments that he sympathizes with the rapist. He did say...

"I'm sorry that you're such a boring fuck and don't understand what it's like to be young drunk and around women."

He's implying that he does know what it's like to be a young drunk around women and rapey situations just happen. It's a natural part of the dating process in his mind. Aren't you really curious to see where this is going? I sure as hell am.

LET THE MAN SPEAK.

If you want to infer I condone rape go ahead, but it just makes the whole argument silly and not my worth my time.

I don't need to infer anything. Your comments are crystal clear, which is why I urge you to speak your mind. This is a safe place. Please continue.

Guess you don't understand the meaning of infer then...

Explain the definition and how it's being wrongly used in my statement.

Verb
Deduce or conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.
Synonyms
conclude - deduce - gather - imply - induce

I haven't given my opinion on rape once.

I believe you did. You just don't realize it.

#121 Posted by Ekami (265 posts) -

Oh shit merriam websters in the house

#122 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

Cable news networks are just terrible, too much opinion not enough fact.

RT, Al Jazeera and BBC World seem pretty good places to get news from, sure they have opinion pieces but they don't affect every news story like Fox or CCN would do, BBC was one of the only news networks around the invasion of Iraq that actually questioning the lies the Bush administration were giving them.

#123 Posted by uniform (1836 posts) -

#124 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

@golguin: I actually have a hard time understand why you would think I would enjoy or get any satisfaction from rape... so my opinion is rather obvious... which is why I haven't bothered to post it.

#125 Posted by envane (1164 posts) -

@golguin:now youve gone and done it :/ we were so close to a breakthrough. eheh

#126 Posted by envane (1164 posts) -

@haffy: its ok , you make easy time understand why you say such dumb.

#127 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

@envane said:

@haffy: its ok , you make easy time understand why you say such dumb.

Quote before edit.

#128 Posted by envane (1164 posts) -

@haffy said:

@golguin: I actually have a hard time understand why you would think I would enjoy or get any satisfaction from rape... so my opinion is rather obvious... which is why I haven't bothered to post it.

hard time understand ......................

#129 Posted by Slag (4616 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

This was a huge event that will forever alter all three of their lives. The two boys are responsible for that event and are paying for it. So all sympathy goes to the victim without a doubt. I'm assuming this reporter would feel the same way and maybe didn't even feel that saying so would be necessary. But that doesn't mean one can't feel sad that the offenders made such a bad decision.

Yes, it absolutely does.

I'm very disappointed to read this from you, as I've read your opinions on other matters and find you generally to be a pretty thoughtful person.

Our victim has two sets of perpetrators

1) the morons who actually committed this heinous act

and perhaps more importantly in this case

2) how her community/society has treated her in the wake of what happened. Anyone who has followed the case know the extreme lengths it's taken to get an obvious crime even to trial.

You can now add CNN and others News media to the list.

The mental anguish she must be going must be extreme and now some of the community seeks to do her further harm which continues (and ampliffies) her ordeal.

It is in exceedingly poor taste on the day of the verdict after all the victim went through to turn around have the narrative being a pity party for the perpetrators of this heinous act. CNN's coverage is inexcusably wrong. I agree it was likely not done out to malice but rather greed, the reality is that TV wanted something to talk about for ratings and Rape Shield laws make it hard to talk about her unlike the criminals. That however does not excuse it.

Still the effect is even on the day she receives justice after all the bullcrap she went through to get this small modicum of justice she gets disempowered and devalued. Meanwhile the people who hurt her are portrayed as additional sympathetic victims, which only feed ammo to the people who already want to harm her further.

She is the victim here. The only victim.

These two morons deserve absolutely zero sympathy, what they have received is justice. They should be in pain, they should suffer the consequences of their actions. Their pain is not tragedy, it is justice. Their pain is self inflicted and entirely their own fault. And the people who pity them are part of the problem.

When they have served their very light sentence, and hopefully been rehabilitated to a basic level of human decency, they will have a chance to live a normal life and perhaps then we can consider whether their life fortunes post prison are worthy of sympathy.

But today of all days before they have paid at all for the evil they have committed? Hell no.

This is another unbelievably gross turn in a case of societal injustice towards this poor young woman. Her victimization continues even on the very day which she supposedly received justice.

#130 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

@envane said:

@haffy said:

@golguin: I actually have a hard time understand why you would think I would enjoy or get any satisfaction from rape... so my opinion is rather obvious... which is why I haven't bothered to post it.

hard time understand ......................

You could use common sense to decipher the cryptic message I left.

#131 Edited by envane (1164 posts) -

@haffy: you could use common sense and not defend rapists , and own up to your misogyny , but there isnt a rule for that either.

edit: to avoid confusion ,Im directly attacking your intelligence and calling you a woman-hater.

#132 Edited by haffy (673 posts) -

@envane said:

@haffy: you could use common sense and not defend rapists , and own up to your misogyny , but there isnt a rule for that either.

Considering what you've wrote and your experiences, and considering I've never seen anyone I know or been through that. Is it completely out of the realms of possibility's that you're taking my opinion out of context?

I'll sum up my posts in this thread because I think I have made some stupid posts and been to blunt.

I don't know everything that happened in the case, I read the OP and watched the video. I don't think rape is good in anyway, but I do think inflicting pain or suffering upon people in revenge isn't the best course of action. I think society can be too sensitive to some issues because of the emotional stress and anxiety behind it.

#133 Edited by envane (1164 posts) -

@slag said:

@jasonr86 said:

This was a huge event that will forever alter all three of their lives. The two boys are responsible for that event and are paying for it. So all sympathy goes to the victim without a doubt. I'm assuming this reporter would feel the same way and maybe didn't even feel that saying so would be necessary. But that doesn't mean one can't feel sad that the offenders made such a bad decision.

Yes, it absolutely does.

I'm very disappointed to read this from you, as I've read your opinions on other matters and find you generally to be a pretty thoughtful person.

Our victim has two sets of perpetrators

1) the morons who actually committed this heinous act

and perhaps more importantly in this case

2) how her community/society has treated her in the wake of what happened. Anyone who has followed the case know the extreme lengths it's taken to get an obvious crime even to trial.

You can now add CNN and others News media to the list.

The mental anguish she must be going must be extreme and now some of the community seeks to do her further harm which continues (and ampliffies) her ordeal.

It is in exceedingly poor taste on the day of the verdict after all the victim went through to turn around have the narrative being a pity party for the perpetrators of this heinous act. CNN's coverage is inexcusably wrong. I agree it was likely not done out to malice but rather greed, the reality is that TV wanted something to talk about for ratings and Rape Shield laws make it hard to talk about her unlike the criminals. That however does not excuse it.

Still the effect is even on the day she receives justice after all the bullcrap she went through to get this small modicum of justice she gets disempowered and devalued. Meanwhile the people who hurt her are portrayed as additional sympathetic victims, which only feed ammo to the people who already want to harm her further.

She is the victim here. The only victim.

These two morons deserve absolutely zero sympathy, what they have received is justice. They should be in pain, they should suffer the consequences of their actions. Their pain is not tragedy, it is justice. Their pain is self inflicted and entirely their own fault. And the people who pity them are part of the problem.

When they have served their very light sentence, and hopefully been rehabilitated to a basic level of human decency, they will have a chance to live a normal life and perhaps then we can consider whether their life fortunes post prison are worthy of sympathy.

But today of all days before they have paid at all for the evil they have committed? Hell no.

This is another unbelievably gross turn in a case of societal injustice towards this poor young woman. Her victimization continues even on the very day which she supposedly received justice.

i think youre both saying the same thing .. , he didnt say they were not guilty , nor that they were victims themselves , just that its ok to feel compassion for ppl who make dumb choices . ill add that its ok to feel hatred towards them too , but that doing so is only a way of venting your own anger , and nothing thus far is a solution to the issue.

sympathy is different from compassion.

#134 Posted by RollingZeppelin (2027 posts) -
#135 Edited by envane (1164 posts) -

@rollingzeppelin: exactly , thank god we have some rapists there to rape the rapers , :(

#136 Posted by JasonR86 (9744 posts) -

@slag:

I'm sorry if I disappointed you dude. But I can have sympathy for both parties. This is a complex issue with several variables. The event is entirely the offenders fault and they are completely responsible and should pay completely for their crime. Their community is disgusting and anyone sticking up for these rapists are disgusting to me.

BUT, I can still feel sad that these two offenders just fucked up their lives. They were just starting their lives, made a huge mistake, and are now forever tied to an idiotic decision. I can, and do, feel sad that these idiots fucked up.

BUT, that doesn't mean that I feel more sorry for them then the victim. She is clearly and absolutely the one that deserves the lion's share of the sympathy. No one can or should argue that. She wasn't at all responsible for what happened and should be given every resource available to her so that she can overcome and get back to feel comfortable in her own skin and around others.

I don't look at many issues as black and white. Things just aren't that simple. I'm sorry if you don't feel the same way.

#137 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3827 posts) -
@uniform said:

Such a terrible situation. Victim is receiving death threats following the verdict. The victim and her family will be shunned by many members of their divided community for who knows how long. I don't know anything about their financial situation, but even if it's good, it's not easy to just pick up and leave.

Even if the bare minimum of allegations are true, she is absolutely right to pursue this. You don't get to group finger a girl who gets completely wasted at a party, and expect her to be cool with that when she finds out.

@barrock said:

http://rt.com/usa/anonymous-steubenville-rape-knight-294/

They gang raped her, sodomized her, and urinated on her and then bragged about it all.

And people are defending them.

If that is the truth, then I wouldn't even spare them the lifetime sex offender label, as I've previously suggested. Why the hell wasn't this in the news reports? My guess is because it was illegally obtained, but it's hard to tell.

#138 Posted by dr_mantas (1982 posts) -

I LOVE how vengeance-based justice is alive and well. None of that rehabilitation crap. PUNISHMENT all the way.

And how you guys gang up on one person disagreeing with you and providing opinions. How dare he not simply express outrage and move on, like a good person.

#139 Edited by JasonR86 (9744 posts) -
#140 Posted by TruthTellah (9323 posts) -

I can understand the anger here and those whom differ, all trying to make more sense of the unthinkable.

Even as a I despise the evil done to me and hold contempt for someone who has harmed me, I also feel some sympathy for them. For it is awful and sad that any of us are capable of such evil, and I feel for the tragedy inherent in someone so deluded that they may think hurting me is alright. I can eventually be free of them, but they will always be imprisoned with themselves.

Yet, when they face punishment and see the cost of their wretchedness, I do not sympathize for that. They have earned such pain; they have earned such ruin. Justice is not tragedy. Tragedy is the individual; the punishment is simply the cost of their great failure.

#141 Edited by SoldierG654342 (1791 posts) -

At the very least, reading through this thread helped me put two and two together and figure out what "digital penetration" actually means. The first time I heard that term I was deeply confused.

#142 Posted by mrfluke (5271 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

@slag:

I'm sorry if I disappointed you dude. But I can have sympathy for both parties. This is a complex issue with several variables. The event is entirely the offenders fault and they are completely responsible and should pay completely for their crime. Their community is disgusting and anyone sticking up for these rapists are disgusting to me.

BUT, I can still feel sad that these two offenders just fucked up their lives. They were just starting their lives, made a huge mistake, and are now forever tied to an idiotic decision. I can, and do, feel sad that these idiots fucked up.

BUT, that doesn't mean that I feel more sorry for them then the victim. She is clearly and absolutely the one that deserves the lion's share of the sympathy. No one can or should argue that. She wasn't at all responsible for what happened and should be given every resource available to her so that she can overcome and get back to feel comfortable in her own skin and around others.

I don't look at many issues as black and white. Things just aren't that simple. I'm sorry if you don't feel the same way.

I can understand the anger here and those whom differ, all trying to make more sense of the unthinkable.

Even as a I despise the evil done to me and hold contempt for someone who has harmed me, I also feel some sympathy for them. For it is awful and sad that any of us are capable of such evil, and I feel for the tragedy inherent in someone so deluded that they may think hurting me is alright. I can eventually be free of them, but they will always be imprisoned with themselves.

Yet, when they face punishment and see the cost of their wretchedness, I do not sympathize for that. They have earned such pain; they have earned such ruin. Justice is not tragedy. Tragedy is the individual; the punishment is simply the cost of their great failure.

pretty much these

#143 Edited by FourWude (2261 posts) -

@Bourbon_Warrior: Don't talk shit Bourbon. The BBC are just as bad as CNN and FOX. Your facts are wrong as well. The BBC were one of the founding proponents of the Iraq war and legitimised the dodgy dossiers which were the primary credible reason at the time for invasion. They along with CBS have been the two biggest supporters of the war to this day.

And the less said about the recent paedophile cover ups by the BBC the better.

The BBC are the biggest scum of all. Wolves in sheeps clothing. The fact so many think of them as a legitimate fair and balanced source is what makes them dangerous.

Remember the BBC was one of the very few news media to self censor and blackout all coverage of Israels incursions into Palestinian territories in Jan 2010. They tried the same nonsense again with the Mavi Marmara incident. State sponsored propaganda, clear for all to see.

#144 Edited by envane (1164 posts) -

i just said fuck it and got realllllly high ...

#145 Posted by golguin (3972 posts) -
#146 Edited by Slag (4616 posts) -

@rollingzeppelin said:

@envane: @slag: @golguin:

I hope those rapists get raped in prison. Right guys?!

no, of course not. That's stupid.

Just sayin' those jerks do not deserve sympathy for their self inflicted stupidity. They are not victims.

@envane said:e.

i think youre both saying the same thing .. , he didnt say they were not guilty , nor that they were victims themselves , just that its ok to feel compassion for ppl who make dumb choices . ill add that its ok to feel hatred towards them too , but that doing so is only a way of venting your own anger , and nothing thus far is a solution to the issue.

sympathy is different from compassion.

We're actually not saying the same thing in my opinion.

#147 Posted by JasonR86 (9744 posts) -
@slag said:

@rollingzeppelin said:

@envane: @slag: @golguin:

I hope those rapists get raped in prison. Right guys?!

no, of course not. That's stupid.

Just sayin' those jerks do not deserve sympathy for their self inflicted stupidity. They are not victims.

@envane said:e.

i think youre both saying the same thing .. , he didnt say they were not guilty , nor that they were victims themselves , just that its ok to feel compassion for ppl who make dumb choices . ill add that its ok to feel hatred towards them too , but that doing so is only a way of venting your own anger , and nothing thus far is a solution to the issue.

sympathy is different from compassion.

We're actually not saying the same thing.

I'm saying it's not ok to feel compassion for the perps. He's saying it is, but he feels sympathy for the perps to a much lesser extent than he does for the survivor.

I'm saying the perps' pain is just and beneficial. He at least so far hasn't really made a value judgment about it that I noticed.

Maybe I'm not making it clear what I'm feeling sympathy about. I feel sad that they made such a dumb decision. I'm sadden by the fact that they've partly thrown their lives away and will have a hell of a time getting their lives back on track. I would have hated to have had a mistake I made when I was in high school stay with me for the rest of my life. Now I never did anything as reprehensible as rape someone. I think the worst thing I did was rear-ended someone while texting (I was a real rebel). And I payed for that mistake with high insurance costs for a long time. But that mistake hasn't continued to haunt me. This mistake these two made will. And making such a life-altering decision so young in life and having such a profound effect on them is sad to me.

I'm not saying that their pain isn't justified, that they don't deserve everything they've got, that they shouldn't feel guilty, or whatever else you think I'm trying to say. They are absolutely guilty and at fault for everything they did. The thing that they should feel the worst about, the thing that prison time, haunting memories, or a poor future will never come close to touching is how completely they've changed the life of the victim completely against her wishes.

In a perfect world where everything was supremely just, I don't even know what would need to be done for those two to fully pay for what they have done to the victim and how they will fully recognize how they've completely changed her life and taking away her sense of security and control. I just know that the jail time they have and the sex offender label they carry will likely not be adequate enough but it is all we can do in our country.

That still doesn't mean that it makes me sick to think that these two made such a dumb decision so young.

I don't know how more plainly I can put this. You're getting hung up on extreme ends of this discussion. I'm saying that there are degrees of emotions surrounding each party and different ways to look at every situation. It is rare when someone does something completely wrong that there is no way to look at that person without any sadness and simply hate, anger, and disgust. For me, personally, this isn't one of those cases. That, again, doesn't mean that they shouldn't pay for their crime. And, again, I don't even think that how they are paying will fully make up for what they have done. But I can't help that I feel sadness thinking about how they've thrown so much of their life away.

If you don't get what I'm saying then that's fine. But please don't interpret what I've said and rephrase them here because when I read how you represent me I don't appreciate how you think I sound. If you feel I sound that way then fine. But let other people interpret what I'm saying on their own.

#148 Edited by envane (1164 posts) -

is that what the kids do nowdays , rear end ppl white texting .... i feel so out of touch

#149 Posted by JasonR86 (9744 posts) -

@envane said:

is that what the kids do nowdays , rear end ppl white texting .... i feel so out of touch

It sucked! I had just bought my car (a really shitty Ford Explorer for $1800 that smelled of oil because it both leaked and burned it all day every day) three months prior ok? I was on...my high school football team (fuck dude) which was full of upstanding dudes like myself and we had been shamed by our coach for not jumping up in the air and offering to volunteer to read to children at an elementary school (seriously). So, because he had done a good job making me feel bad, I decided to go out and read some books to some kids. Problem was that I didn't know exactly where the school was. So I was texting back and forth to my Dad about where to go when I ran into the back of a Nissan. And I really messed up that Nissan.

My insurance jumped up $150 extra per month for like 3 years. Because I got shamed by my football coach to go read to some snot-nosed kids who I didn't even read to because I was too distraught after the accident.

It was a huge bummer dude.

#150 Posted by guiseppe (2842 posts) -

Didn't the exact same thing happen with that football team who raped a girl a couple of months ago. People were saying "ohh they've had their careers ruined". It is really disgusting.