#101 Posted by Bombs_Away (1010 posts) -
@Blair: You obviously haven't come across me before, I'm Bombs_Away and I take the piss. I'm still anti-Israel though. Not anti-jewish though before you start with that crap.
 
@HandsomeDead: And you just seem like a boring person. I'm glad you don't like the film, I wouldn't wanna have any similarities with you. Good day to you sir!
#102 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Bombs_Away: ;_;
#103 Posted by sopranosfan (1935 posts) -
@Claude said:
" I'm from North Carolina, and my feelings vary on the subject.
 

 Not Offended


"
Greatly offended I think she should remove those now.  Sorry couldn't resist.
#104 Posted by SJSchmidt93 (4894 posts) -

No. Nothing general like a stupid flag offends me.

#105 Posted by MrKlorox (11209 posts) -

I'm offended that people only think of the racial connotations.

#106 Posted by Pibo47 (3166 posts) -

Nope. Not offended at all.

#107 Posted by MarkWahlberg (4599 posts) -
@HaltIamReptar said:
" @LaszloKovacs said:

" @HaltIamReptar said:

" @LaszloKovacs said:
" @MarkWahlberg said:
"... a majority of the people who do have it in their houses and on their clothes are, to use the common term, 'rednecks', who may or may not shout 'the south will rise again!' when they get excited. If you wear or hang the Confederate flag somewhere, you might not be a racist or a separatist, but there's a very good probability that you're woefully ignorant. "
This, pretty much. I live in upstate New York, so I never see it in towns, but out in farm country you'll see it surprisingly often. This perplexes me, since New York is not what most people would consider Southern.  I remember passing one house on the ski club bus ride every week in high school that had a pickup truck on blocks, an outhouse, and an enormous Confederate flag flying in the yard. I could never tell if someone actually lived there or if it was some sort of post-modern art installation. "
The KKK has its roots in New England.  So, there you go. "
Wait, really? The only thing Google turned up was something about them backing a candidate at the 1924 DNC in New York City. Then again, I don't really know what to look for. "
 Yeah man.  Well, I can't find anything on the internet to back me up, so I guess my APUSH teacher was a liar.  As the story goes, the KKK started as an anti-immigration group. "
Because I'm getting all these mail notices over your conversation, I feel obliged to add my two cents.  Boston, NY etc were crazy anti-immigrant back in the day. And it was usually the previous generation of immigrants doing the most hating (Irish were fucking nuts about it). So there were a lot of groups about it in New England; KKK might have been one of them, I dunno.
#108 Posted by kratos (208 posts) -
@baconbits33 said:
" @kratos: You do realize in the sense you are talking then that every flag in the world is a flag of war?  
 
@Video_Game_King: But that's the thing, anyone who took it out of context was allowed to voice their opinion and then hear what the true reason for it being up was, and we hand only one kid in our class that was confused when she saw it but when we all discussed it she thought that it being there as a source for discussion and a reference to history was a really good thing. "
That was sort of part of my point
#109 Posted by baconbits33 (1156 posts) -
@kratos: Then what are you trying to achieve?
#110 Posted by Coombs (3449 posts) -
@Mordukai said:
" @ryanwho said:
" The war's over, you can stop being offended over every little thing white guilt America. "
So if we go by your logic then it's ok to hang the nazi flag when you learn about WWII.  "
Yes.
#111 Posted by DCFGS3 (1054 posts) -

I'm not offended by it, I would be if it was hung on Government buildings or something, because that sends the wrong message. But unlike the Swastika or Aboriginal flag (which is offensive), the Confederate flag has little to no racial connotations. In real terms the war wasn't really about slavery. I'm more offended by the teacher posting the Obama poster up.

#112 Posted by kratos (208 posts) -
@baconbits33 said:
" @kratos: Then what are you trying to achieve? "
Spreading political agenda in a place of young minds is ridiculous, and simply putting up any flag for an educational purpose should be allowed
#113 Posted by baconbits33 (1156 posts) -
@kratos: Oh ok then my own ignorance screwed me over, I must have read your first post wrong then, sorry.
#114 Posted by buzz_killington (3532 posts) -

I'm Canadian, but yes.

#115 Posted by LaszloKovacs (1141 posts) -
@DCFGS3 said:
" I'm more offended by the teacher posting the Obama poster up. "
Yeah, I am too actually. And I voted for the dude.
 
A teacher's political affiliation doesn't have a place in a history lesson. A flag might.
#116 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -

If the point of hanging the flag is to make a discussion about it, like say hang a flag of a swastika and talk about the history of how a symbol which was good before and now is considered bad, sure, cool. Its all in context. But if you are hanging them because you just love to, that's something else especially in a classroom (which I assume has some government funding). 

#117 Posted by RandomInternetUser (6789 posts) -

I'm not offended, but people who hang it up thinking they're awesome and have "southern pride" are fucking dumb.  I'm from the South, by the way.

#118 Posted by Apathylad (3066 posts) -

No, it doesn't bother me. I have a friend who says he won't listen to Lynyrd Skynyrd or other celebrities just because they use that flag though, which I think is really extreme.

#119 Posted by Coombs (3449 posts) -
@HaltIamReptar said:

" @LaszloKovacs said:

" @HaltIamReptar said:

" @LaszloKovacs said:

" @MarkWahlberg said:

"... a majority of the people who do have it in their houses and on their clothes are, to use the common term, 'rednecks', who may or may not shout 'the south will rise again!' when they get excited. If you wear or hang the Confederate flag somewhere, you might not be a racist or a separatist, but there's a very good probability that you're woefully ignorant. "

This, pretty much. I live in upstate New York, so I never see it in towns, but out in farm country you'll see it surprisingly often. This perplexes me, since New York is not what most people would consider Southern.  I remember passing one house on the ski club bus ride every week in high school that had a pickup truck on blocks, an outhouse, and an enormous Confederate flag flying in the yard. I could never tell if someone actually lived there or if it was some sort of post-modern art installation. "
The KKK has its roots in New England.  So, there you go. "
Wait, really? The only thing Google turned up was something about them backing a candidate at the 1924 DNC in New York City. Then again, I don't really know what to look for. "
 Yeah man.  Well, I can't find anything on the internet to back me up, so I guess my APUSH teacher was a liar.  As the story goes, the KKK started as an anti-immigration group. "
Heres the Wiki....
Six middle-class Confederate veterans from Pulaski, Tennessee, created the original Ku Klux Klan on December 24, 1865, in the immediate aftermath of the American Civil War
 
Or This
  Its birth-place was Pulaski, the capital of Giles, one of the southern tier of counties in Middle Tennessee. Pulaski is a town of two thousand five hundred to three thousand inhabitants. Previous to the war the people possessed wealth and culture. 
 
Or This
 The KKK was formed as a social group in Tennessee in 1866. The name probably came from the Greek word kuklos, meaning "circle."

Klan was an alliterative version of "clan," thus Ku Klux Klan suggested a circle, or band, of brothers. With the passage of the Military Reconstruction Acts in March 1867, and the prospect of freedmen voting in the South, the Klan became a political organization. 
 
Or This (This one is a.... "Interesting" read, Though a little biased)
  
It was amid this atmosphere that met in a law office in Pulaski, TN., on Christmas Eve, 1865 and, innocently enough, decided to form a social club for the purpose of mutual entertainment. The club adopted the style of the college fraternities in vogue at the time. They would dress up in weird costumes and play practical jokes on unsuspecting people. To create an aura of mystery they invented an unusual name and called their social club: the Ku Klux Klan.

    In 1866, the popularity of the Ku Klux Klan grew through out Tennessee and beyond. At the same time depredations committed by renegade Blacks and Whites, coupled with the absents of constitutional law and vengeance seeking Radical Republicans, made life in the South become all but unbearable. Quite by accident the nocturnal pranksters of the Ku Klux Klan discovered that their costumes and highjinks had a startling effect on the superstitious Negroes. The Negroes thought they were seeing ghosts whenever a group of Klansmen were seen going about at night. The Klan was quick to realize that their newly discovered ghostly image could be used to control bands of unruly Negroes. At first the night riders went out unarmed. Not intending to hurt anyone, they believed that anyone they met would be too frightened to try to harm them. Things were soon to change.

 
 
No I have no real interest in the subject nor am I offended by the flag,
But this is what I got after a 2 minute Google search.
#120 Posted by Rayfield (2097 posts) -
@DCFGS3 said:
" Aboriginal flag (which is offensive),  "

Are you just trying to start shit?
#121 Posted by supermike6 (3556 posts) -
@BiffMcBlumpkin said:
" I know, right? Sometimes people are offended by my Swastika. I have no idea why those knuckleheads don't understand it has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it's just a general German pride thing. "
It's actually a buddhist / hindu symbol too.
#122 Edited by MrKlorox (11209 posts) -
@Coombs: Hmm... Officer Pulaski of GTA:SA might have gotten his name as a reference to this.
 
I always thought the names were a reference to the 1994 HBO documentary Gang War: Bangin' in Little Rock, which has a gangster named Tenpenny who was sent to Pulaski county jail or some shit.
#123 Posted by Whisperkill (2969 posts) -
@WilliamRLBaker: Well it was my family, not my friends.
 
And also, I stated something, so did those other people. None of us had any proof, so what you're saying is ineffectual at bashing me. You want proof, go to South Carolina or something.
 
Even if it wasn't taught that in the south. It doesn't relieve the idea that the Confederate flag is offensive to many people, as it stands for things universally accepted as negative to society.
#124 Edited by MrKlorox (11209 posts) -
@Whisperkill:  As a non-Southerner, I'm sure you have a deep understanding of what it stands for.
#125 Posted by Ravenousrattler (1417 posts) -

That situation sounds like "White Guilt" in action, some teachers and professors try to force this on their students, which i feel is just plain wrong. The confederate flag is part of history, and visual aids always help kids learn.

#126 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -
@Whisperkill said:
" @WilliamRLBaker: Well it was my family, not my friends.  And also, I stated something, so did those other people. None of us had any proof, so what you're saying is ineffectual at bashing me. You want proof, go to South Carolina or something.  Even if it wasn't taught that in the south. It doesn't relieve the idea that the Confederate flag is offensive to many people, as it stands for things universally accepted as negative to society. "
1. I didn't bash you.
2.they don't need proof or do you think any one in the US would actually just sit by as they taught the war of northern aggression?....I've never heard of it as being taught down there, no picketing against schools that taught this subject in the south so if it was such a standard or wide spread teaching as you claim *its taught as the war of northern aggression in the south was pretty much your words* we'd have heard of it long before now.
 3.Actually no its considered offensive by the minority of people and its not universally accepted as representing things negative to society.
#127 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@BiffMcBlumpkin said:
" I know, right? Sometimes people are offended by my Swastika. I have no idea why those knuckleheads don't understand it has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it's just a general German pride thing. "
Brilliance.
#128 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @BiffMcBlumpkin said:
" I know, right? Sometimes people are offended by my Swastika. I have no idea why those knuckleheads don't understand it has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it's just a general German pride thing. "
Brilliance. "
then you have the history of the swastika beyond the nazi's.
Its another case of a sysmbol being tainted by actions and people that didn't even use the symbol as its original purpose.
#129 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@WilliamRLBaker said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:
" @BiffMcBlumpkin said:
" I know, right? Sometimes people are offended by my Swastika. I have no idea why those knuckleheads don't understand it has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it's just a general German pride thing. "
Brilliance. "
then you have the history of the swastika beyond the nazi's. Its another case of a sysmbol being tainted by actions and people that didn't even use the symbol as its original purpose. "
Well yeah.  I actually know a Hindu person who has a Hopi in her back yard.  It's nice to see it un-reversed and untainted.   Biff's comment is almost as good as that real Hopi.
#130 Posted by MrKlorox (11209 posts) -
@BiffMcBlumpkin said:
" I know, right? Sometimes people are offended by my Swastika. I have no idea why those knuckleheads don't understand it has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it's just a general German pride thing. "
I think the Oak leaf is what you're looking for.
#131 Posted by BiffMcBlumpkin (3720 posts) -

I think you're looking for love in all the wrong places.
#132 Posted by Gabriel (4058 posts) -

If your offended by it you'll have to answer to these guys.
 
 
 

#133 Edited by Gunner612 (4338 posts) -
@Mordukai said:

" @ryanwho: I do know about the symbol's history and I saw it all around India when I went there but I think my grandma would have had a problem if I came back with a garment bearing that symbol. WHat I was talking about is that going by your logic it will be ok for people to parade this around: 
 

So you want to tell me that if you see someone parading this flag around you would feel nothing?  "
There is a vast difference between the enslavement of a race for economical purposes and the attempted extermination of a race because of hate.
 
The civil war wasnt all about slavery, it was just something the union pinned on the south to justify their conquest. 
 
In a nutshell, this is what the civil war was about. 
 
Lincon bans slavery, to avoid and economic collapse, southern states (which are largly dependent on cash crops and cheap labor) succeed from the union to avoid the ban. The union sees this as a rebelion and retaliates by blocking southern ports, the CSA sees this as an act of aggression and in turn, attacks fort sumpter. Years of useless bloodshed continue and over 620,000 men (military casualties alone), both black and white, lost their lives for the freedom of roughly 1,000,000 slaves.  A lot of historians mistakenly place the blame on racial hate for the reason behind the war but it was actually Lincons poor handling of the situation that caused such a loss of life. Instead of giving the southern states time to wave themselves off the dependence on slave labor, he forced them to give it up immediately. This caused a severe depression in the south after the war (as was predicted by southern politicians and economists) that left both whites and blacks in financial peril. The civil war was all about politics.
 
In a way, you could compare the north to Nazi Germany in this case, Invading an independent country and forcing their own laws and ideals on them. But that is as rediulous as comparing the holocaust, an extermination of over 6 million jews, to the cause of the civil war.
 
As for whether i find it offending, or whether others should be offended or not, id have to say no. Its original use (before being adopted by the KKK and other deep south neo-nazi groups) had absolutely nothing to do with racial hate.
#134 Posted by c1337us (5751 posts) -
@BiffMcBlumpkin: oh man thanks for the laugh. My boring arse day at work needed that.
#135 Posted by Feser (543 posts) -
@Gunner:
No. Andrew Jackson nearly had a civil war on his hand in 1830, but due to deft political manuevering it was postponed. While the issue of slavery was not at the forefront then, the primary concern of state power over federal power was. If Lincoln did avoid a civil war I assure you it would only be for awhile.
If economics is such a grave concern then you will know the south eventually did better finacially in the long run. But if they didn't that is irrelevent, for I am of the belief that no matter of math could possibly be used to justify slavery. It is irrelevant how many people died to save slavery or how economically damaging it might have been, the abolition of slaves is invaluable moral victory.  
I know it is highly inconvenient for the Southerners to be told what to do, but I am sure it is also inconvenient for the British to lose their tax revenue from the American colonies. And do you think it is appropiate for a man to own a sex slave? If only for a year, before he can find someone else that will actually want to be with him. I hate to use such contrived examples, but think of what I am saying. As a state we make laws aggainst sexual slavery, and we will force these laws upon people, punish them, at the cost of tax dollars, for a woman who may not even be an American. It is done for the pure reason of being good. How is that differant from the North forcing it's will on the South?
#136 Posted by Alphonzo (756 posts) -

It was a symbol of some messed up shit...150 years ago, though, so NO.

#137 Posted by Spiral_Stars (456 posts) -

Probably less offensive than hanging the Nazi flag. Confederate Flag kind of symbolizes certain things that everyone would like to forget, but hanging that flag in particular means nothing to me. Probably because I'm Canadian. Nothing offends me.

#138 Posted by TheKidNixon (1564 posts) -

Two quick thoughts:
 
1) In your particular case, no, I don't think the use of the flag was offensive. It was clearly being used as an educational tool and for the sake of conversation. In this regard, I think it had far more relevancy than the Obama poster, as that serves nothing but to provide a political message. I'd argue that a random, unaffiliated poster of Obama would be unoffensive (he IS our president), but one clearly from his campaign from before his election is a different story. It really serves no purpose other than to make certain students uncomfortable or feel less inclined to share their opinions if they happen to be conservative. And this is coming from a self-described liberal.
 
2) The Confederate flag IS offensive. Yes, the American Civil War was about more than slaves, but the argument that it is a sign of some sense of rebelious individualism is misguided. The Civil War was an awful, painful and dark period for America, where we allowed our differences to become so deeply seeded that we could no longer be one country. Especially now, the idea that we're seperated rather than divided is a serious rhetorical handgrenade. And yes, for better or worse it does carry the weight of slavery with it, and the racial insensitivity isn't excusable.

#139 Posted by Hailinel (24256 posts) -

The Confederate flag is the symbol of a long-deceased corpse of a wannabe nation that a select few unfortunately still cling to out of some misguided attempt at holding onto "the good old days."
 
Never mind that those days came to an abrupt end in 1865.

Online
#140 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

You Americans are heading straight for the 'Second American Civil War'.
 
This will leave you weakend. That's when the REDS ATTACK!
 
And you'll all unite once again to fight the reds at your very own HOMEFRONT!

#141 Posted by Teran (877 posts) -
@baconbits33:   A flag is a flag, nothing more and nothing less.  The confederate flag was never intended to be a symbol of racism.  While the confederacy did have slaves and slavery is often associated with the confederacy one must bear in mind that the civil war was not fought over slavery.  It was one factor of many but comparatively small compared to states rights.  Despite popular belief, the union generals were not waging some kind of grand crusade to free the oppressed, they were trying to bring the confederacy back in line. 
 
William Tecumseh Sherman was one of the greatest generals of the time but he viewed slavery as a political issue and didn't have a personal stand on it beyond judging people (slaves included)  on their deeds and character.  The confederate flag has been associated with racist fools for a while but this is a case of a radical organization hijacking a symbol, not a symbol spawning radical organizations to support its meaning.  The nazi swastika is another example of this very situation.
 
@yeahno said:
" I live in the south so I see it alot. Most of the time it's fine unless it's 20 feet long and on the back of your truck. Also, it usually means southern pride (which I think is stupid), but I guess there can be some underlying symbols here or there. I never really know when though. "
Why is southern pride stupid?  A lot of people are prideful of their roots, just ask folks immigrating to the United States or go take a look at Chinatown or any other immigrant community within the United States.  Are immigrants stupid for loving their country?
#142 Posted by wwfundertaker (1397 posts) -
@BiffMcBlumpkin said:
" @ryanwho said:
" @Video_Game_King said:
" It's mainly offensive because of the strong association with the KKK. So yes, when taken outside proper historical context. "
KKK also has crosses all over their uniform. Do crosses offend you? They also have a triforce on there for some goofy reason. Do triforces offend you? You shouldn't allow the worst kinds of people to take control over a symbol. 
 
 
 
 
No really, triforces. Let me save you the google search. 

"
I'm still not convinced this isn't a photoshopped image of Link. "
The flag doesnt offend me, that picture does.
#143 Posted by GreggD (4486 posts) -
@chrissedoff said:
" @GreggD said:
" @Rayfield said:
"
GOOGLE IMAGE SEARCH RESULT FOR 'CONFEDERATE FLAG'
"
lol Racist or not, it's a thoroughly American image plastered onto a Japanese product. Oh, the irony. "
that's not ironic in the slightest. "
Are you daft, man?
#144 Posted by Termite (2398 posts) -

Well, I generally think of it as a symbol of racism and intolerance, so yeah, I guess so. If somebody hung it up though, I wouldn't make a fuss, I'd just know they're a dumbass.

#145 Posted by Termite (2398 posts) -
@Teran: 
 
Slavery was not the only thing the Civil War was fought over, I'll give you that, but trying to diminish the issue's role in the events leading up to the Civil War is silly. The Southerners were very defensive of their right to own slaves, which makes sense, considering how much money was to be lost if that right was infringed upon at all. Slavery is what fueled the powerful in the South, and so they tried their hardest to defend it, and they called their fight a fight for States' rights.
#146 Posted by Obbeskrutt (33 posts) -

© United States of America.

#147 Posted by WitchHunter_Z (882 posts) -

Why do people even use it anymore? The Confederates lost the war and no longer exist, that flag ceased to exist as anything more than an antique item after they lost.  
It's not even like anyone can claim be "still fightin' for their cause" because anyone who fought has long since died from old age.
 
It doesn't offend me, I just think it's stupid to make or wear the things anymore.

#148 Posted by nrain (1274 posts) -

I'm offended by people who actually get offended by anything.
#149 Posted by Psych0Penguin (412 posts) -
@nrain said:
" I'm offended by people who actually get offended by anything. "
and I'm offended that your offended by people who get offended!
#150 Posted by The_Ish (481 posts) -

You must be a really timid person to be offended by the Confederate flag. 
 
But then again those who do bear the flag proudly are timid in that they are so easily trolled. :D