#151 Edited by Evilsbane (4641 posts) -
@Psych0Penguin said:

" @nrain said:

" I'm offended by people who actually get offended by anything. "
and I'm offended that your offended by people who get offended! "
Well I am offended that your offended by him being offended by other people being offended!
 
 
But seriously getting offended is the biggest waste of time and by the way I own a jacket with a Soviet flag on it, you wanna know why? Because I love everything from Russia they have an amazing history and culture I don't believe in anything they did but I just think anything from Russia is awesome, am I now a communist who hates America because I think their flag kicks ass? No I am not, so stop being offended and go jump of a bridge.
#152 Posted by nrain (1274 posts) -
@Evilsbane said:
"@Psych0Penguin said:

" @nrain said:

" I'm offended by people who actually get offended by anything. "
and I'm offended that your offended by people who get offended! "
Well I am offended that your offended by him being offended by other people being offended!   But seriously getting offended is the biggest waste of time and by the way I own a jacket with a Soviet flag on it, you wanna know why? Because I love everything from Russia they have an amazing history and culture I don't believe in anything they did but I just think anything from Russia is awesome, am I now a communist who hates America because I think their flag kicks ass? No I am not, so stop being offended and go jump of a bridge. "
I am SO offended by this! 
xD
#153 Posted by Psych0Penguin (412 posts) -
@nrain said:
" @Evilsbane said:
"@Psych0Penguin said:

" @nrain said:

" I'm offended by people who actually get offended by anything. "
and I'm offended that your offended by people who get offended! "
Well I am offended that your offended by him being offended by other people being offended!   But seriously getting offended is the biggest waste of time and by the way I own a jacket with a Soviet flag on it, you wanna know why? Because I love everything from Russia they have an amazing history and culture I don't believe in anything they did but I just think anything from Russia is awesome, am I now a communist who hates America because I think their flag kicks ass? No I am not, so stop being offended and go jump of a bridge. "
I am SO offended by this! xD "
Thats just Offensive !! >:@
#154 Posted by JJWeatherman (14558 posts) -

I'm not offended. Although I find it weird that some people still like to hang them. It's kinda seems rebellious towards the government but I'm sure very few people actually mean it that way. whatever.

#155 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

This thread could use more bikini girls.

#156 Edited by Commando (1878 posts) -
@Video_Game_King: The confederate flag has almost nothing to do with the KKK. Believe it or not, there are KKK members all over the country, not just in the south.
 
I have a small one on my back window on my truck(right underneath an American flag) and it just means I'm proud to be a southerner.
 White robes and pointy hats symbolize the KKK, not the confederate flag.
#157 Posted by Toxin066 (3300 posts) -
@ryanwho said:
" This thread could use more bikini girls. "
The man speaks the truth.
#158 Posted by Gabriel (4067 posts) -
@ryanwho said:
" This thread could use more bikini girls. "

#159 Posted by TheHBK (5505 posts) -

1.  You lost the war, get over it, stop trying to remember your "heritage" and be part of America, not the rebel alliance losers.
2.  Slavery was a big part of the war, and yet they knew it was wrong and tried to put it under the banner, state's rights.  Suck on it bitches, you would love to have slaves back.
3.  Alabama sucks ass and people there have sex with donkeys.
4.  You dont see German people with a Swastika do you?  You know why it is the same?  Because after the war, discrimination in the South was rampant, Jim Crow anyone?  Had to wait 100 more years for desegregation?  Seriously?  You are gonna tell me that racism and slavery are not embedded in that flag?
5.  You could say the civil war was not about slavery only.  But you could aslo say the Nazi's were not just about killing jews.  They hated communism and wanted to expand their territory like any good military power.  So which is it?  Just because there is more to it than slavery doesnt exclude it.
6.  Also, the confederate flag as we know it was actually created in the 1900's and therefore not remembering shit, since the flag used by the CSA was actually different and this one was trumped up to actually instill the white pride and keep minorities down.

#160 Edited by qwicksilver (41 posts) -
@Gabriel: I am swayed by your persuasive argument.....
 
Seriously.  I live in the North East, so I don't see it almost at all.  I don't personally get offended by it any more than I'd be offended by a Nazi flag.  It doesn't hold any significance to my life or family, but that isn't to say I don't think people who get offended by those symbols are thin skinned.  I think the issue of what the confederate flag stands for is much more complicated than either side makes it out to be.  Tensions in many parts of the US and the world can still linger under the surface between different groups and it's sometimes hard to tell what a person's intentions are by doing something like posting up the confederate flag.  To some people it may be a symbol of local pride and history, but to other people it's also a symbol of several hundred years of oppression and slavery.  Are we to ignore the rights of one over the other?  Personally I don't think any partisan symbols should be shown in public schools unless it's in reference to a lesson or it relates directly to the person's country or the person's state/province.  In that line, I don't think your teacher was right for posting up and Obama poster.  All teachers should check their politics and/or religious beliefs at the door to some extent.
 
 @TheHBK said:

 6.  Also, the confederate flag as we know it was actually created in the 1900's and therefore not remembering shit, since the flag used by the CSA was actually different and this one was trumped up to actually instill the white pride and keep minorities down. "

  
 The history of the current flag is a bit murky, but suffice it to say that the emblems shown in the flag were used in variations during the civil war as the confederate battle flag.
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg
#161 Edited by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -

its damn nice lookin flag, one of the best ever. gotta admit folks.  
 

#162 Posted by august (3852 posts) -

The Confederate Flag is a wonderful symbol. In that it makes it easy to pick out dangerously stupid people.

#163 Posted by ThomasP (1661 posts) -
@Milkman said:
" I'm not offended but I think people who hang it are dumbasses. "
#164 Edited by august (3852 posts) -
@Gunner said:

  In a nutshell, this is what the civil war was about.   Lincon bans slavery, to avoid and economic collapse, southern states (which are largly dependent on cash crops and cheap labor) succeed from the union to avoid the ban. 

You realize the Emancipation Proclomation wasn't signed until the second year of the war. Right?   
 


A lot of historians mistakenly place the blame on racial hate for the reason behind the war but it was actually Lincons poor handling of the situation that caused such a loss of life. Instead of giving the southern states time to wave themselves off the dependence on slave labor, he forced them to give it up immediately. 


 Ah hah hah hah oooookayy. Yeah I'm sure the South was dying to get on that. Just give us a couple hundred years, we got this covered!
#165 Posted by AgentJ (8778 posts) -

I have no personal problem with the flag, and I wouldn't ask for it to be taken down if I saw one (because whoever's flying it is probably packing heat :P) but I can see how and why some would be offended by it. 
@ryanwho said:

" @Mordukai said:

" @ryanwho said:

" The war's over, you can stop being offended over every little thing white guilt America. "
So if we go by your logic then it's ok to hang the nazi flag when you learn about WWII.  "
Its okay to wear a swastica if you're Buddhist or Hindi or Lainist or Native American and the symbol meant something to your people literally thousands of years before anything resembling the Nazi party existed, yes. The Nazi party is dead and those religions and groups are still alive, its their symbol now and they shouldn't get grief from people like you because you didn't have a clue about a symbol's history. "
technically that symbol isn't a swastika. The Buddhist symbol you are referring too is the reverse of the swastika. look at both next to each other and you'll see what I mean.
#166 Posted by Obbeskrutt (33 posts) -
@TwoOneFive said:
" its damn nice lookin flag, one of the best ever. gotta admit folks.  
 
"
I bet that little pool of water beneath her is pee. Kinda destroys the mood, doesn't it? HA!
#167 Posted by qwicksilver (41 posts) -
 
@AgentJ said:

technically that symbol isn't a swastika. The Buddhist symbol you are referring too is the reverse of the swastika. look at both next to each other and you'll see what I mean. "

It is a swastika.  Buddhists have only more recently started reversing the direction of the swastika so as to not be confused with the Nazi swastika.  Also, the idea that Hitler intentionally reversed it in order to reverse its peaceful connotations is likewise an urban legend.
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Buddhism
#168 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

It symbolizes southern pride....don't have a problem with that....but if people try to use it as a symbol of racism then yes I have a problem with it.

#169 Posted by VWGTI (1919 posts) -

No, it takes a lot more than a symbol to offend me.

#170 Posted by Jimbo (9862 posts) -
@Disengage said:

" I once saw a guy with a Confederate flag patch on a Yankees hat. In Northern New York. Face, meet palm. "

 
  
If you didn't immediately reenact this scene with him then have you failed us all.
#171 Posted by Everyones_A_Critic (6305 posts) -
@MrKlorox said:
" @Everyones_A_Critic said:
"

I really just don't care for "southern folk" and their way of life. It doesn't offend me but it just gives me the impression that whoever is displaying it is probably not my kind of person.

"
Mike Judge, the creator of Beavis and Butthead is a Texan. So are Beavis and Butthead themselves. "
Indeed, but there are always exceptions. I'm a big Pantera fan (your avatar happens to be my favorite album from them).
#172 Edited by xXShnookXx (26 posts) -

An issue like this, concerning a flag, is a waste of time. Everything is offensive to someone nowadays. People are way too sensitive over things that don't matter anyway. I understand many white supremacists use the confederate flag to represent their beliefs. So I ask, who cares?  You can take away a flag, but you will never take away what someone believes.  
 
You can take just about any flag in the world, look at that territory's history, and find something about that territory that can offend someone. I'm half Native American (dad is full-blooded). Should he and I be offended by the American flag?  
 
Everyone needs to stop being so sensitive. It's way too common these days, that people are like,  "Oh, this offends me. You can't do that because it hurts my feelings". If we all learned to let things go, then as a society, we could all move towards more important issues. 
#173 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
@Commando: 
 
NOTHING!? It's the entire reason they started the Klan. They wear white robes to symbolize ghosts of the Confederacy. If it was solely about racism, they would've started a bit earlier than immediately after the Civil War.
#174 Posted by CornontheCobbe (2645 posts) -

No i am not offended by it. It's just a flag.

#175 Posted by baconbits33 (1156 posts) -
@Teran: Oh yeah I agree with you completely, as a matter of fact General Robert E. Lee was anti-slavery but he believed that the federal government telling the states (which also happened to be his people) what to do was wrong. So he took the South's side because it was all so much more to him then slavery. 
#176 Posted by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -
@Obbeskrutt said:
" @TwoOneFive said:
" its damn nice lookin flag, one of the best ever. gotta admit folks.  
 
"
I bet that little pool of water beneath her is pee. Kinda destroys the mood, doesn't it? HA! "
not if you're into that sort of thing...
#177 Posted by ManMadeGod (1572 posts) -
@BiffMcBlumpkin said:

" I know, right? Sometimes people are offended by my Swastika. I have no idea why those knuckleheads don't understand it has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it's just a general German pride thing. "

O boy, Godwin's law strikes again! That didn't take long.
 
Here's a great video that talks about the flag and sums up many of my views on it:
 
#178 Posted by RHCPfan24 (8609 posts) -

While I disagree with the South's stance on slavery and many of their reasons for leaving the Union, I respect the Confederacy. They believed that they were being oppressed and sought to break free from it all....even when their slaves were still shackled in chains. The Confederates had some great leaders though, such as Stonewall Jackson and, of course, Robert E Lee. That man was a classic American and not even a true believer in slavery. He only fought because he wanted to defend his home. That's a man there. The awesome beard helped too.
 
So, no, I am not offended by a Confederate flag because they were a noble, if idealistically flawed, institution. A swastika probably brings back worse memories to most than the South but the flag has more leeway.

#179 Posted by ManMadeGod (1572 posts) -
@Termite said:
" Well, I generally think of it as a symbol of racism and intolerance, so yeah, I guess so. If somebody hung it up though, I wouldn't make a fuss, I'd just know they're a dumbass. "
Why would they be a dumbass? How could you make that assumption about a person you never even talked to...............
#180 Posted by Commando (1878 posts) -
@Video_Game_King said:
" @Commando:   NOTHING!? It's the entire reason they started the Klan. They wear white robes to symbolize ghosts of the Confederacy. If it was solely about racism, they would've started a bit earlier than immediately after the Civil War. "
If you think southerners still wave the Confederate flag to symbolize the KKK or slavery, you know nothing about the South. 

I was born and raised in south Alabama, and I have seen it waved my entire life so I think I know a little more about it than you.
 
It symbolizes southern pride. We're proud of our southern heritage, and we will gladly fight for what we believe in. We don't believe in slavery. The majority of us are not racist pricks. 
The flag shows that we will fight for our beliefs because it's our rights as Americans to do so. It's to remind you that we're not scared of the government and we will stand up and fight them all over again if we have to.
#181 Posted by Ironknight (129 posts) -

I'm from Texas and I don't see it being a matter of southern pride or anything like that if you have pride in your state use the state flag we shouldn't use anything that promotes southern states over the rest of the US we should be encouraging unity and be under the same flag. Also when most people use that flag they know what it carries a negative meaning to most people.

#182 Posted by Hector (3365 posts) -

I'm not offended at all!

#183 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
@Commando: 
 
Still, that's a very strong connection, you can't deny that.
#184 Posted by EpicSteve (6489 posts) -

In my school, teacher's aren't allowed ANY form of expressing their political or religious views. However, if these items are utilized in a manner of educating students, sure. I could understand a teacher showing the Nazi flag during a discussion about WWII, but just hanging up the flag for the sake of doing so, would be kinda messed up.

#185 Posted by yeahno (269 posts) -
@Teran said:  
@yeahno said:
" I live in the south so I see it alot. Most of the time it's fine unless it's 20 feet long and on the back of your truck. Also, it usually means southern pride (which I think is stupid), but I guess there can be some underlying symbols here or there. I never really know when though. "
Why is southern pride stupid?  A lot of people are prideful of their roots, just ask folks immigrating to the United States or go take a look at Chinatown or any other immigrant community within the United States.  Are immigrants stupid for loving their country? "
This is Southern Pride ten fold. It's equivalent to Christians hammering down their beliefs in your throat or Atheists doing the same. The pride I'm talking about is unnecessary.
#186 Posted by deusdigit (572 posts) -
@baconbits33: It doesn't really bother me personally, considering no one is alive today from that era. and i believe that it can be a lesson for society and some of us today. the only thing about that flag that i don't really care about is people feel the need to get massive ones and hang it up inside their homes. Are they trying to promote the idea of what was once a alternative government or are they promoting racism? Outside of school of course. and most of the time i see what i would like to call rednecks,hillbillys and people of walmart are the only ones who have that flag. i am making stereotypes and generalizations, but i live north and see this quite a bit in my hometown.
#187 Posted by WickedCobra03 (2109 posts) -
@Snipzor said:
" Comparing a campaign poster to a flag with very questionable values and history behind it is quite pointless. I hope you understand that. "
What do you mean questionable values?  In that they thought that government was getting too big and we were no longer becoming states but just regions of a country.  It has only taken ~230 but the United States of America are getting close to having a government to the one that we were fighting to break away from.  Lots of taxes, everything nationalized and central power. 
#188 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -

I'm Swedish. So no..?

#189 Posted by thecleric (793 posts) -

White people aren't allowed to have pride. 
 
It instantly makes us racist. Instantly

#190 Posted by JonathanMoore (1858 posts) -

I live in England and as such, no I don't care too much.

#191 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@thecleric said:
" White people aren't allowed to have pride.  It instantly makes us racist. Instantly "
I think our lack of identity is why shit like Avatar does so well. Maybe one day we can become blue, and oppressed, and then we can be proud. Yay.
#192 Posted by Horgaan (21 posts) -

I'm not offended so much as I am disgusted.

#193 Edited by jakob187 (21689 posts) -
@RHCPfan24 said:

" While I disagree with the South's stance on slavery and many of their reasons for leaving the Union, I respect the Confederacy. They believed that they were being oppressed and sought to break free from it all....even when their slaves were still shackled in chains. The Confederates had some great leaders though, such as Stonewall Jackson and, of course, Robert E Lee. That man was a classic American and not even a true believer in slavery. He only fought because he wanted to defend his home. That's a man there. The awesome beard helped too.  So, no, I am not offended by a Confederate flag because they were a noble, if idealistically flawed, institution. A swastika probably brings back worse memories to most than the South but the flag has more leeway. "

Right, but at the same time, people need to start looking at slavery from more than just the "atrocity" perspective that they leave it as.  I'm not trying to condone it, nor am I trying to say it was a right thing, but there are positive things that came out of slavery.  The biggest thing would be the introductions of African-Americans to the United States, which means that without the slave trade, many would've still been in parts of Africa dealing with tribal massacres, cannibalism, disease, and poverty beyond even slavery.  Granted, when they did come to America and were put into slavery, there were many who refused to let the slaves go...but there were plenty of plantation owners that only kept slaves for so long before eventually allowing them to be free, and there were even plenty of slaves that didn't want to leave the plantations after they were freed because they knew that they'd have better treatment on the plantation itself (as well as some form of food and shelter) than they would elsewhere! 
 
You also have the fact that, without slaves, our country wouldn't have had a war that would've ended up changing the way our country worked soooo much.  Because of slavery, we were able to add amendments, organize our laws better, etc.  You also have the growth of the agricultural market in America, specifically the South, which also helped lead to the move for industrialization. 
 
Regardless, slavery wasn't a good thing.  I mean, if you go to the Smithsonian, they actually have a pair of gloves that are specifically labeled "nigger skin gloves", presumably made from an African-American slave.  Mix that in with the rape, the torture, and the general level of poverty and mistreatment of a majority of slaves, and yeah...the South wasn't a great place.  However, it's not like the North didn't have slaves.  Shit, even though the President didn't keep slaves (from what historical records document, but it's always been a questionable thing), Buchanan still ended up siding with the South!  Therefore, there's a lot of hypocrisy that is too thick to cut through for a clear answer. 
 
In the end, like I said before, it's whatever.  Some people are offended, some aren't.  Personally, it's just a representation of the South and holds no political or racist points with me. 
 
@Ironknight said:
" I'm from Texas and I don't see it being a matter of southern pride or anything like that if you have pride in your state use the state flag we shouldn't use anything that promotes southern states over the rest of the US we should be encouraging unity and be under the same flag. Also when most people use that flag they know what it carries a negative meaning to most people. "
Texas is one of the major exceptions here, as we have been consistently seen as a state whose flag is just as popular as the American flag.  We'll fly our red, white, and blue all the damn time over a Confederate flag, mainly because we have more than just Southern pride - we have state pride as well.
#194 Posted by Snail (8611 posts) -

Dude, I could swear I saw a thread very similar to this one about a year ago (the subject and Original Post anyhow). 
 
Quite a deja vu.

#195 Posted by Zaapp1 (660 posts) -

Are you offended by the Aztec flag? Mayan? Atlantian? Don't worry about it.

#196 Posted by AgentJ (8778 posts) -
@qwicksilver said:
"  
@AgentJ said:

technically that symbol isn't a swastika. The Buddhist symbol you are referring too is the reverse of the swastika. look at both next to each other and you'll see what I mean. "

It is a swastika.  Buddhists have only more recently started reversing the direction of the swastika so as to not be confused with the Nazi swastika.  Also, the idea that Hitler intentionally reversed it in order to reverse its peaceful connotations is likewise an urban legend.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Buddhism "
I didn't realize the symbol was used outside of Buddhism, but in that link you supplied it is clear that Buddhism used the symbol in the opposite direction. I assume it has stayed consistent, as have Hinduism and others in the opposite form.
#197 Edited by Gunner612 (4338 posts) -
@august said:

" @Gunner said:

  In a nutshell, this is what the civil war was about.   Lincon bans slavery, to avoid and economic collapse, southern states (which are largly dependent on cash crops and cheap labor) succeed from the union to avoid the ban. 

You realize the Emancipation Proclomation wasn't signed until the second year of the war. Right?   
 


A lot of historians mistakenly place the blame on racial hate for the reason behind the war but it was actually Lincons poor handling of the situation that caused such a loss of life. Instead of giving the southern states time to wave themselves off the dependence on slave labor, he forced them to give it up immediately. 


 Ah hah hah hah oooookayy. Yeah I'm sure the South was dying to get on that. Just give us a couple hundred years, we got this covered! "
Lincoln entered office with the promise to abolish slavery in every state without any thought about how it would have effected the economy. Him winning office was enough proof that slavery would have been abolished. 
 
Also, 100 years? Where do you get that idea? It would have taken 5 years maybe 10 in some states to abolish slavery completely with no economic repercussions. Most southern economists stated that society could not evolve with slavery intact In fact, slavery was going to be abolished the first couple of years after america won its independence, though it was put on hold due to fear of total economic collapse (we owed millions to france and spain). So you could even place the blame on our founding fathers for the useless bloodshed caused by the civil war. Im not saying that the south wanted to be rid of slavery, but automatically taking slaves away from them is like taking alcohol away from a severe alcoholic, it never ends well.
 
Slavery or no, every state in the union has the right to succeed, its covered in the constitution, No state would have agreed to be in the union if they knew they couldn't leave.
#198 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -

Not one bit.

#199 Edited by Teran (877 posts) -
@Termite said:

" @Teran:   Slavery was not the only thing the Civil War was fought over, I'll give you that, but trying to diminish the issue's role in the events leading up to the Civil War is silly. The Southerners were very defensive of their right to own slaves, which makes sense, considering how much money was to be lost if that right was infringed upon at all. Slavery is what fueled the powerful in the South, and so they tried their hardest to defend it, and they called their fight a fight for States' rights. "

I did not say slavery was not a factor, simply that it was wasn't really a huge political issue at the time, more like a convenient excuse.  If freeing slaves had been the true motive for conquering the south I suspect the civil rights movement would have happened a lot sooner rather than waiting a hundred years.  The point I'm trying to make here is that the southerners were not defensive about slavery, they were defensive about their right as a state to make their own decisions.
 
Again the events leading up to the Civil War weren't really about slavery but more about lessening the power of the federal government and preserving the freedom they felt they should have.  This was evidenced when they captured a union armory so that they might arm themselves against the more powerful northern States should it come to civil war... though capturing said armory was pretty much the match that lit the fuse and they turned a potential conflict into all out civil war.
 
 

@baconbits33

said:

" @Teran: Oh yeah I agree with you completely, as a matter of fact General Robert E. Lee was anti-slavery but he believed that the federal government telling the states (which also happened to be his people) what to do was wrong. So he took the South's side because it was all so much more to him then slavery.  "


  Yeah most of the generals of the time weren't really heavily invested in slavery though many did have slaves.  They were split into two broad categories, union loyalists versus confederate rebels.  The union generals generally thought the federal government was needed to keep certain laws and expectations consistent while the confederate generals were fighting in many ways for freedom and reform.  There was one thing they all had in common and that was ending the war as quickly as possible (of course both wanted to be the victor).
 
William Tecumseh Sherman summed up his opinion of the war quite well:  
 

  I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.   


 And in response to having to rebuild a bridge the confederate forces burned, Sherman went into the neighboring town and tore down many of the log cabins and a church that were there.  The townspeople were not too pleased and when they asked him why he would do this to them he responded with something like:
 

War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.

  He then told them bluntly that they should have protected the bridge and that he was leaving the new one in their care.  It should be noted though that while Sherman was cruel, he did not permit his soldiers to loot and destroy though or abuse citizens who were victims of circumstance being there at that time.  If someone was caught doing these things there was a good chance they'd have been hanged.

Lastly to clarify for folks reading my comments, I am not pro-slavery nor am I trying to justify it.  The civil war needed to be fought for human rights if nothing else.  I am glad the Union forces won and I am thankful every day that Britain did not get involved in the war as they likely would have sided with the Confederacy for several reasons but most likely for economics.

#200 Posted by Skald (4369 posts) -

Not at all. The Japanese have done worse things, and they didn't have to change their flag after World War II.