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#101 Edited by LackingSaint (1764 posts) -

@humanity said:

@johntunoku said:

@humanity: Soooo you watched a couple of transformations sequences and judged the show based solely on that and a rough understanding of the plot? Man, that is profoundly cynical. Even as unabashedly fan-servicey and goofy as the show is I feel that is a little disrespectful to the creators.

It may have a wonderful plot - there are people working on it who were in part responsible for Gurren Lagann and that was a great show. But teenage girls transforming into what can be described as "outfits" in the loosest possible meaning of the word, complete with G-string panties and bouncy unmentionables is-what-it-is man.

It's pretty dumb, but they lampshade it many many times over the course of the show. Characters think the main character's an exhibitionist while she absolutely hates wearing the thing. I'll clarify though that the youtube video you posted was the antagonist transforming, a woman who is in at least her twenties.

It's not just a "Here we'll parade the characters around in thongs and bare midriffs and then act like that's normal" thing. It actually has some cool ramifications on the arc of the plot, and they mention it all the time. But whatever, the show is still only a kind-of-good action-comedy with some amazing visuals. Criticising an outfit (rarely) worn by only two characters just seems like a pretty shallow way of judging the series.

#102 Posted by Humanity (8712 posts) -

@humanity said:

@johntunoku said:

@humanity: Soooo you watched a couple of transformations sequences and judged the show based solely on that and a rough understanding of the plot? Man, that is profoundly cynical. Even as unabashedly fan-servicey and goofy as the show is I feel that is a little disrespectful to the creators.

It may have a wonderful plot - there are people working on it who were in part responsible for Gurren Lagann and that was a great show. But teenage girls transforming into what can be described as "outfits" in the loosest possible meaning of the word, complete with G-string panties and bouncy unmentionables is-what-it-is man.

It's pretty dumb, but they lampshade it many many times over the course of the show. Characters think the main character's an exhibitionist while she absolutely hates wearing the thing. I'll clarify though that the youtube video you posted was the antagonist transforming, a woman who is in at least her twenties.

It's not just a "Here we'll parade the characters around in thongs and bare midriffs and then act like that's normal" thing. It actually has some cool ramifications on the arc of the plot, and they mention it all the time. But whatever, the show is still only a kind-of-good action-comedy with some amazing visuals. Criticising an outfit (rarely) worn by only two characters just seems like a pretty shallow way of judging the series.

According to Wikipedia the protagonist is 17 and the antagonist 18 but it's anime so honestly who cares, they all look like they're either 25 or 14 depending on if they're supposed to be sexy, cute or tough - and thats not really a criticism it's just how a lot of anime's roll.

I don't want to come off as though I hate the show, in fact I'm somewhat intrigued and I like the animation so I was thinking of giving this a go. I haven't watched any anime in two years or however long since I last broke that dry spell by watching Lagann and thoroughly enjoying it.

I'm simply saying, the whole outfits thing is a little lame. They look cool, but the boobies flailing around wildly during transformations and whatnot are a bit much I think at least that much we can agree on. The show could have done without it and still probably gotten the message across - or not, I full-heartedly admit to not having seen a single episode yet. I'll tell you what, I'll watch however much is out there available to watch and I'll get back to you with a more informed opinion.

#103 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -

It's the new "grimdark" flavour of the month anime. This time next year, nobody will remember what it is.

#104 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@humanity said:

Also side news: I watched some scenes from that Kill La Kill show and oh man. At some point you should just lay the cards down and unashamedly turn your show into soft core pornography with a story on the side. I mean the above mentioned Kite and Mezzo Forte were somewhat unapologetic about their nature and at least you could respect that about them (good OVA's overall). On the other hand I can see how this can do gangbusters in the ratings - fighting, high school post apocalyptic setting and girls in outfits that you need to "get naked" for to release their full potential applies to all the right demographics.

Stuff like Kite are a whole different thing. for example the pedophilia scenes with his 14 year old daughter also help to characterize her father and I think it is totally ok. Animes are made for everyone and it is just an art form. And stuff like that is really totally normal. sexualisation in Japn is something totally normal and I see really nothing wrong with that. You do not have to apologize or hide behind some stuff. Take fairy tail for example a show for aimed at kids and the usual shounen crowd.

Imagine this in a kids show in the US XD

As for Kill la kill: Everything about this anime is ridiculous and it actually fits into this series and a bit of fan service is never wrong if you want to be successful and that goes for male and female characters in Animes^^

#105 Posted by Humanity (8712 posts) -

@darji: Thanks Darji. I'll keep an open mind in the future.

#106 Posted by Splodge (1027 posts) -

@evilsbane: give kill la kill a try. Its a million miles over the top and I haven't watched anything quite like it. The animation and pacing is relentless. They are also completely honest about any sexualisation of the characters. Often I get put off by an anime series when it gets creepy, but I would compare kill la kill to the 2000 ad comics. It has an exaggerated sense of style that is appealing and often very funny.

#107 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@splodge said:

@evilsbane: give kill la kill a try. Its a million miles over the top and I haven't watched anything quite like it. The animation and pacing is relentless. They are also completely honest about any sexualisation of the characters. Often I get put off by an anime series when it gets creepy, but I would compare kill la kill to the 2000 ad comics. It has an exaggerated sense of style that is appealing and often very funny.

Watch Panty and Stockings it is the same style and all. PErosnally I do not like his style at all but that is just a taste thing^^

#108 Posted by Neurotic (631 posts) -

Attack on Titan is shonen, just a little darker and with good production values behind it. It's not revolutionary or ground-breaking except that it doesn't do a lot of the tropes that people are sick of in most anime, preferring to do tropes that people *were* sick of before we got fanservice tropes. I went in expecting to be indifferent cos it was overhyped and the Titans look fucking ridiculous but it won me over. The characters that they bother to spend time on are interesting and I like the setting. Although the Titans still look fucking ridiculous and the 'twist' after episode 7 or whatever was dumb and I would've immensely preferred it if they'd kept it away from the transformation crap (and kept Eren dead, the little pissant). Calling it the best anime in however long is an entirely personal statement but it's not revolutionary by any means.

#109 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@neurotic: Yea hcalling any anime best anime ever is always a stretch since there are soooooooooooooo many great ones fir for every taste as well.

#110 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19305 posts) -

@darji said:

@splodge said:

@evilsbane: give kill la kill a try. Its a million miles over the top and I haven't watched anything quite like it. The animation and pacing is relentless. They are also completely honest about any sexualisation of the characters. Often I get put off by an anime series when it gets creepy, but I would compare kill la kill to the 2000 ad comics. It has an exaggerated sense of style that is appealing and often very funny.

Watch Panty and Stockings it is the same style and all. PErosnally I do not like his style at all but that is just a taste thing^^

Panty and Stocking is NOT the same style as Kill la Kill. The artstyle in P&S was intentionally crude and the whole thing was purposefully over-the-top vulgar. Outside of the transformation scenes, P&S actually lacked any kind of fanservice despite numerous sexual innuendos and references.

Kill la Kill, on the other hand, is chock full of unappealing fanservice and giving it a reason like "oh, she's embarrassed by her outfit", "oh, it's just Mako being silly" or any of that kind of crap does not help in any way. I tried to last through 4 episodes, but I had to give it up because I'm really not into constantly seeing teenage girls get disrobed or having them parade around scantily clad. It's not funny.

Its insanity and crazy style/pacing doesn't help things either for me; it's the reason I disliked FLCL.

#111 Edited by Splodge (1027 posts) -

@darji said:

@splodge said:

@evilsbane: give kill la kill a try. Its a million miles over the top and I haven't watched anything quite like it. The animation and pacing is relentless. They are also completely honest about any sexualisation of the characters. Often I get put off by an anime series when it gets creepy, but I would compare kill la kill to the 2000 ad comics. It has an exaggerated sense of style that is appealing and often very funny.

Watch Panty and Stockings it is the same style and all. PErosnally I do not like his style at all but that is just a taste thing^^

Yeah neither do I usually. I have stopped watching certain animes quite early in because the sexualisation just makes me uncomfortable. I think what Kill la Kill has done to skimpy anime girls is what Superjail, which I think it has a lot in common with, has done to violence The context is so bizarre and the situations so impossible that I move from uncomfortable to amused. Indeed, they make jokes all the time that her super powered uniform is basically underwear. I showed a friend the first episode and he laughed all the way through. In the end he reckoned it was something he would try to get his girlfriend to watch with him, who isn't really into anime but would enjoy certain movies or the odd series like GITS.

#112 Posted by Captain_Felafel (1552 posts) -

How about watching the other 24 episodes, then create a topic about the show.

#113 Posted by Humanity (8712 posts) -

@splodge said:

@darji said:

@splodge said:

@evilsbane: give kill la kill a try. Its a million miles over the top and I haven't watched anything quite like it. The animation and pacing is relentless. They are also completely honest about any sexualisation of the characters. Often I get put off by an anime series when it gets creepy, but I would compare kill la kill to the 2000 ad comics. It has an exaggerated sense of style that is appealing and often very funny.

Watch Panty and Stockings it is the same style and all. PErosnally I do not like his style at all but that is just a taste thing^^

Yeah neither do I usually. I have stopped watching certain animes quite early in because the sexualisation just makes me uncomfortable. I think what Kill la Kill has done to skimpy anime girls is what Superjail, which I think it has a lot in common with, has done to violence The context is so bizarre and the situations so impossible that I move from uncomfortable to amused. Indeed, they make jokes all the time that her super powered uniform is basically underwear. I showed a friend the first episode and he laughed all the way through. In the end he reckoned it was something he would try to get his girlfriend to watch with him, who isn't really into anime but would enjoy certain movies or the odd series like GITS.

You can always check out the classic Project A-ko. It had that original idea of girls in power suits and fan service except a lot more toned down.

#114 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@splodge said:

@darji said:

@splodge said:

@evilsbane: give kill la kill a try. Its a million miles over the top and I haven't watched anything quite like it. The animation and pacing is relentless. They are also completely honest about any sexualisation of the characters. Often I get put off by an anime series when it gets creepy, but I would compare kill la kill to the 2000 ad comics. It has an exaggerated sense of style that is appealing and often very funny.

Watch Panty and Stockings it is the same style and all. PErosnally I do not like his style at all but that is just a taste thing^^

Yeah neither do I usually. I have stopped watching certain animes quite early in because the sexualisation just makes me uncomfortable. I think what Kill la Kill has done to skimpy anime girls is what Superjail, which I think it has a lot in common with, has done to violence The context is so bizarre and the situations so impossible that I move from uncomfortable to amused. Indeed, they make jokes all the time that her super powered uniform is basically underwear. I showed a friend the first episode and he laughed all the way through. In the end he reckoned it was something he would try to get his girlfriend to watch with him, who isn't really into anime but would enjoy certain movies or the odd series like GITS.

Isn't this the case with most animes with fanservice like that? For example freezing the way how often they are losing their clothes in battle is just ridiculous or a Manga example is strongest disciple Kenichi which always ends in women losing their clothes in a battle they are fighting just naked except for covered nipples and crotch era but only one little bit. It is just how crazy animes are.At least some of the

or take something like that. it is just ridiculous just like Kill la kill^^

.

#115 Posted by Raineko (433 posts) -

@raineko said:

I gotta say one thing about the story though: The beginning of the show when they went into training and had to fight titans with the 3D-gear was pretty amazing but as soon as it turned into people transforming into titans, I didn't really like it that much. It made especially Eren look like a completely useless character, since the only thing he has to contribute to anything is his transformation ability. Without that he would have died already. Don't really know why the author made it that way.

Here's the real answer

@secondpersonshooter said:

seemed like a pretty standard 14-year-old wish fulfillment anime.

How so? Doesn't make sense to me.

I hope you like cliffhangers and monologues.

(Kill la Kill is better, watch that instead!)

I think that anime is not that great, the only reason why people watch it is becaue of half naked women fighting. If that kinda stuff gets you hooked, whatever.

#116 Posted by masterpaperlink (1829 posts) -

Lead writer on jojo's bizzare adventure also lead on titan....

yes

Online
#117 Posted by dr_mantas (1761 posts) -

You're a joke. Attack on Titan is freaking awesome.

#118 Posted by bigjeffrey (4706 posts) -

Stick to Hentai

#119 Edited by Humanity (8712 posts) -

@lackingsaint said:

@humanity said:

@johntunoku said:

@humanity: Soooo you watched a couple of transformations sequences and judged the show based solely on that and a rough understanding of the plot? Man, that is profoundly cynical. Even as unabashedly fan-servicey and goofy as the show is I feel that is a little disrespectful to the creators.

It may have a wonderful plot - there are people working on it who were in part responsible for Gurren Lagann and that was a great show. But teenage girls transforming into what can be described as "outfits" in the loosest possible meaning of the word, complete with G-string panties and bouncy unmentionables is-what-it-is man.

It's pretty dumb, but they lampshade it many many times over the course of the show. Characters think the main character's an exhibitionist while she absolutely hates wearing the thing. I'll clarify though that the youtube video you posted was the antagonist transforming, a woman who is in at least her twenties.

It's not just a "Here we'll parade the characters around in thongs and bare midriffs and then act like that's normal" thing. It actually has some cool ramifications on the arc of the plot, and they mention it all the time. But whatever, the show is still only a kind-of-good action-comedy with some amazing visuals. Criticising an outfit (rarely) worn by only two characters just seems like a pretty shallow way of judging the series.

Ok well I've watched the first 5 episodes so here are my thoughts: the skimpy-ness of the special Kamui outfits is still just there for fan service. Thus far it has not been explained as to why they look the way they do apart from two lines of dialog - one mentioning that Matoi's father wanted it that way and another by the main antagonist stating they achieve maximum power that way. It's not like the outfits are even the only issue as the show goes to great lengths to present the viewer with numerous cheap "fan service" shots. It's not the first time and it's not the last that anime has centered around panty shots or underboob but it does cheapen the experience a tad.

That said the show is extremely goofy without a doubt, so it's hard to really talk about how the plot is being ruined with these lucrative upskirts all the time. While the first 3 episodes were a bit bumpy but interesting in their own way, episode 4 was a train wreck. Not sure what happened there - I'm guessing they made the first three episodes to get picked up and then didn't have time to make a 4th one proper? Episode 5 picks back up with the same quality as the initial three but the story is starting to clearly suffer. Pacing is quite terrible in this show with either lengthy speeches that spoon feed you plot exposition by the bowl full to long bouts of nothing intermittently filled with upskirts or fight scenes.

Overall, the show is much worse than Gurren Lagann but at least it is trying something different. After having watched it up to ep.5 I still stand by my original "judgement" based on those original transformation videos (although I did actually go online and read plot synopsis and a lot more into it; I didn't simply "judge" it based on the transformations alone) Not that anyone really cares anymore but I am a man of my word and I said I'd watch it as to not be "cynical" and disrespectful to the creators - and yup, it's just silly goofs and panties all around so no disrespect was had.

EDIT: There is actually a pretty strong SCRYED vibe coming from it. I wouldn't be surprised if both of the main characters outfits evolved to secondary forms, although I don't see how they could become even less clothed than now.

#120 Posted by LackingSaint (1764 posts) -

@humanity said:

@lackingsaint said:

It's pretty dumb, but they lampshade it many many times over the course of the show. Characters think the main character's an exhibitionist while she absolutely hates wearing the thing. I'll clarify though that the youtube video you posted was the antagonist transforming, a woman who is in at least her twenties.

It's not just a "Here we'll parade the characters around in thongs and bare midriffs and then act like that's normal" thing. It actually has some cool ramifications on the arc of the plot, and they mention it all the time. But whatever, the show is still only a kind-of-good action-comedy with some amazing visuals. Criticising an outfit (rarely) worn by only two characters just seems like a pretty shallow way of judging the series.

Ok well I've watched the first 5 episodes so here are my thoughts: the skimpy-ness of the special Kamui outfits is still just there for fan service. Thus far it has not been explained as to why they look the way they do apart from two lines of dialog - one mentioning that Matoi's father wanted it that way and another by the main antagonist stating they achieve maximum power that way. It's not like the outfits are even the only issue as the show goes to great lengths to present the viewer with numerous cheap "fan service" shots. It's not the first time and it's not the last that anime has centered around panty shots or underboob but it does cheapen the experience a tad.

That said the show is extremely goofy without a doubt, so it's hard to really talk about how the plot is being ruined with these lucrative upskirts all the time. While the first 3 episodes were a bit bumpy but interesting in their own way, episode 4 was a train wreck. Not sure what happened there - I'm guessing they made the first three episodes to get picked up and then didn't have time to make a 4th one proper? Episode 5 picks back up with the same quality as the initial three but the story is starting to clearly suffer. Pacing is quite terrible in this show with either lengthy speeches that spoon feed you plot exposition by the bowl full to long bouts of nothing intermittently filled with upskirts or fight scenes.

Overall, the show is much worse than Gurren Lagann but at least it is trying something different. After having watched it up to ep.5 I still stand by my original "judgement" based on those original transformation videos (although I did actually go online and read plot synopsis and a lot more into it; I didn't simply "judge" it based on the transformations alone) Not that anyone really cares anymore but I am a man of my word and I said I'd watch it as to not be "cynical" and disrespectful to the creators - and yup, it's just silly goofs and panties all around so no disrespect was had.

EDIT: There is actually a pretty strong SCRYED vibe coming from it. I wouldn't be surprised if both of the main characters outfits evolved to secondary forms, although I don't see how they could become even less clothed than now.

Oh yeah, like I said I don't think the show's amazing, I haven't really even bothered to keep up with it after sort of watching episode 4. But it does some cool things and the flaws it does have are much more notable and significant to the overall quality of the show than "Sometimes they wear a weird fanservice outfit".

#121 Posted by johncallahan (541 posts) -

I started watching this show after reading this thread last week and now I'm hooked. Getting a very similar feeling with this show, the same kind I got when 8 year old me watched Dragon Ball Z for the first time or 13 year old me watched Cowboy Bebop for the first time. What I'm getting at is this is becoming one of my favorite animes. Yes it can be really melodramatic at times, cheesy at others, but man. That whole story had my jaw dropped more than a few times. Dark, depressing, then hilarious and charming. Great stuff.

#122 Edited by ryanwhom (290 posts) -

its an army of spidermans fighting giant naked businessmen who eat people this is very very serious okay

10 eps in and you'll be all about this shit tho

oh nevermind this topic is pervs defending pervy shit now for some reason Im out

#123 Posted by jakob187 (21640 posts) -

Attack on Titan is fucking incredible

As someone who does not care for watching anime, I can verify that this statement is very fucking accurate.

#124 Edited by bunkerbuster05 (453 posts) -

I only dabble in anime, and I agree about the first episode. But I'm glad I gave it a chance.

It is melodrama, but you take the good with the bad.

It's really great. It has actual tension, because no character is safe. Dudes straight up die all the time.

(Also, watch Kill la Kill like mentioned.)

#125 Edited by JohnTunoku (100 posts) -

@humaniti

@humanity said:

@lackingsaint said:

@humanity said:

@johntunoku said:

@humanity: Soooo you watched a couple of transformations sequences and judged the show based solely on that and a rough understanding of the plot? Man, that is profoundly cynical. Even as unabashedly fan-servicey and goofy as the show is I feel that is a little disrespectful to the creators.

It may have a wonderful plot - there are people working on it who were in part responsible for Gurren Lagann and that was a great show. But teenage girls transforming into what can be described as "outfits" in the loosest possible meaning of the word, complete with G-string panties and bouncy unmentionables is-what-it-is man.

It's pretty dumb, but they lampshade it many many times over the course of the show. Characters think the main character's an exhibitionist while she absolutely hates wearing the thing. I'll clarify though that the youtube video you posted was the antagonist transforming, a woman who is in at least her twenties.

It's not just a "Here we'll parade the characters around in thongs and bare midriffs and then act like that's normal" thing. It actually has some cool ramifications on the arc of the plot, and they mention it all the time. But whatever, the show is still only a kind-of-good action-comedy with some amazing visuals. Criticising an outfit (rarely) worn by only two characters just seems like a pretty shallow way of judging the series.

Ok well I've watched the first 5 episodes so here are my thoughts: the skimpy-ness of the special Kamui outfits is still just there for fan service. Thus far it has not been explained as to why they look the way they do apart from two lines of dialog - one mentioning that Matoi's father wanted it that way and another by the main antagonist stating they achieve maximum power that way. It's not like the outfits are even the only issue as the show goes to great lengths to present the viewer with numerous cheap "fan service" shots. It's not the first time and it's not the last that anime has centered around panty shots or underboob but it does cheapen the experience a tad.

That said the show is extremely goofy without a doubt, so it's hard to really talk about how the plot is being ruined with these lucrative upskirts all the time. While the first 3 episodes were a bit bumpy but interesting in their own way, episode 4 was a train wreck. Not sure what happened there - I'm guessing they made the first three episodes to get picked up and then didn't have time to make a 4th one proper? Episode 5 picks back up with the same quality as the initial three but the story is starting to clearly suffer. Pacing is quite terrible in this show with either lengthy speeches that spoon feed you plot exposition by the bowl full to long bouts of nothing intermittently filled with upskirts or fight scenes.

Overall, the show is much worse than Gurren Lagann but at least it is trying something different. After having watched it up to ep.5 I still stand by my original "judgement" based on those original transformation videos (although I did actually go online and read plot synopsis and a lot more into it; I didn't simply "judge" it based on the transformations alone) Not that anyone really cares anymore but I am a man of my word and I said I'd watch it as to not be "cynical" and disrespectful to the creators - and yup, it's just silly goofs and panties all around so no disrespect was had.

EDIT: There is actually a pretty strong SCRYED vibe coming from it. I wouldn't be surprised if both of the main characters outfits evolved to secondary forms, although I don't see how they could become even less clothed than now.

Can respect that you went through with it. The exposition problem is certainly there, but I don't think I really found it to be necessarily a huge hindrance to the pacing, the universe is definitely at least being fleshed out as they go along. They established a bit about the main villain's past, her cronies' past, the flexible potential of the kamui, the mystery behind Ryouko's father's involvement, introduced the mentor character and hinted at ulterior motives, established what the goku uniforms are made of etc. I've certainly seen shows that do it worse over the first few episodes. The only time where it seemed to me as though nothing of significance was really being established and the plot was standing still was ep. 4, which very much felt like a budget episode relative to the rest. The only parts that I think could really be called bouts of nothing outside that are when Ryouko is at the friend character's house, but those scenes don't exactly last a long time anyway.

It's not going to exactly change the world, but I do think there is some merit to this weird throwback to old-school action anime. And I still think its a shame that the choice to do bikini armor for the protagonist and the antagonist basically robs the show of all credibility in the eyes of a lot of people. Then again I suppose they did consciously make that choice, so really they can only blame themselves.

So... I will agree to disagree. We're pretty far off topic from AOT here anyway.

#126 Edited by coaxmetal (1569 posts) -

never seen the show but the manga is pretty good

#127 Edited by Itwongo (1099 posts) -

So, I've started watching Kill la Kill because of this thread. I like it! The fanservice made me apprehensive at first, but I got used to it. I ended up seeing the show in a light similar to Bayonetta when it came to fanservice; the world is sufficiently crazy and self-aware to the point where I can laugh at and get behind the idea of the kamuis. Apart from that, likable characters, humor, killer music and solid action are making this show for me. Can't say much for the overarching plot at this point. The show feels like it's in this weirdly long setup period, but there was some decent character development in the last couple episodes, even if a lot of it was foreshadowing. I can totally understand why people wouldn't care for this show, but I'm enjoying my time watching this and trying to uncover any bits of subtext lying around.