Is it wrong to Download a Movie or Album if your going to buy it anyway?

" @Vacancy009 said:

" @KingWilly said:

" @JJWeatherman said:

" @DelroyLindo said:

" I download a lot of movies, but i'd also wager i have a significantly  larger legitimate dvd collection than your average person, so I dont feel remotely guilty. "

This would be like me stealing a loaf of bread one day simply because I've bought a shit load of bread previously in my life. Doesn't really make sense. "

People often don't make sense. It's a moral justification so the user doesn't feel like a bad person with everyone telling them they're terrible people for pirating whatever they pirate. Also your analogy doesn't work. A more accurate statement would be "I wouldn't feel guilty for walking into a bakery and cloning a loaf of bread for my own personal use."  I really wish people would stop acting like computer-based piracy was the same as real piracy and theft. They are completely different animals. PC-centric piracy is a beast our civilization hasn't wrestled with before. Trying to compare it to theft is just silly and makes no sense. "

So then you just take issue with the name?  The bread analogy doesn't work either because the value of the product is in the production,  could you have cloned the bread if it hadn't previously been made?  No.  I will agree that the digital arena is new and there is a lot to work out in terms of legal loopholes, used content and whatnot but if the company making the content is charging for it then it should be purchased.  Really though its those that don't pay for things that cause the prices to go up.  Even if there isn't a shred of evidence supporting how much money piracy costs a company, the company feels that it does and will spend extra money trying to prevent it, ensuring that the prices will only go up for legitimate users. "

I am currently selling a rock, would you like to buy this rock?  It was made from the Earth, but I shaped the rock myself with sandpaper so it looks like a shiny rock. Do you think this has value?   The consumer in you I'm betting is saying "no". I have the right to sell my rocks, but that doesn't mean people have to buy them, especially when rocks are freely distributed and easily available elsewhere. The consumer in you would either go to someone who is giving rocks away or just pick one up yourself. The digital age and streaming media has brought about a clash between consumer culture and populist morality. Morality dictates you should buy the rock I'm selling, because obtaining a shiny rock in any other way is "morally wrong" because I'm the one who is selling it, yet consumerist edict dictates you should get the best value for your dollar.  Also the point about companies driving prices up because of piracy is valid, but that doesn't mean the companies are right for doing that. Why should consumers live in fear of hiked prices? If anything, it shows that the company is unwilling to change their format and direction to evolve with the times. It shows that they are not above wringing every penny they can from a consumer. To that I say, fuck that, I'll shop elsewhere. "

Depends: if your downloading real music like Jazz or thought out rock(like Tool), you should definitely reward the artist/industry, if your downloading katy Perry, then downloading is the only way to go... i mean do you really want to reward an idiot who does a brain dead music style anyone could do? Its just a guilty pleasure to hear them, don't reward them for making you feel guilty :P. 
@DelroyLindo said:

" I download a lot of movies, but i'd also wager i have a significantly  larger legitimate dvd collection than your average person, so I dont feel remotely guilty. "

" Depends: if your downloading real music like Jazz or thought out rock(like Tool), you should definitely reward the artist/industry, if your downloading katy Perry, then downloading is the only way to go... i mean do you really want to reward an idiot who does a brain dead music style anyone could do? Its just a guilty pleasure to hear them, don't reward them for making you feel guilty :P. "

If you're asking if it's legally wrong: I believe it is.

If you're asking if it's morally wrong: grow a fucking pair.

" @gamefreak9 said:

" Depends: if your downloading real music like Jazz or thought out rock(like Tool), you should definitely reward the artist/industry, if your downloading katy Perry, then downloading is the only way to go... i mean do you really want to reward an idiot who does a brain dead music style anyone could do? Its just a guilty pleasure to hear them, don't reward them for making you feel guilty :P. "

That reasoning makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. "

i don't feel like it's wrong. your going to give them money sometime. 
 
one time i had a digital copy from a dvd that i bought. i downloaded it to find out that it had DRM in it. i was pissed that it had it because it screwed my computer put a little bit. i also had to pay $5 for it. i was also more mad at that.

" It is wrong to download movies, tv shows, etc EVEN IF you are going to buy them. I say this because most means of acquiring such media requires you to upload as you are downloading, thus you are facilitating piracy. "

" @Gamer_152 said:

" @Sargus: Again, this is not a moral justification of piracy, it's just a distinction between two different things that some people don't make. "

Like you, I'm not saying if I'm for or against it, although some people think of it like this: You are supposed to pay for that data on that disc, and by coming into that data without paying for it, you are stealing it, and pirating is stealing. I think both viewpoints are valid. "

If you spent half a year or more pouring your entire life and effort into a labor of love, how would you feel if someone took it without paying for it?

"

@Vacancy009 said: 

What if the rock is granite that is used to make counter tops?  It would sell then,  Also if you you were pulling rocks from my driveway and offering them for free or selling them I would take issue with that.  The consumerist mentality your referring to has always been there,  whether you by fake designer purses or buy a product at a low price because yeah... its likely been stolen.   The difference is in the digital world the product is infinitely replaceable whereas if you steal and sell 10 handbags unless you steal more you arent selling anymore.  I'm hoping its not your intention but what you are essentially saying is after something is created it has no value.  Which like your bread statement,  I didnt steal the bread I just made a copy so because you didn't lose anything its not theft.  In this world of yours why would anyone have the drive to create anything when they could wait around for someone else to do something and "clone" it.    Which of course is the paradox,  why should I create something for someone else to clone and not get paid appropriately for my time? You keep talking about companies moving into this new era and finding a way to survive but you completely forget that the only thing new about this is how the content is distributed.  The back end still relies on people expecting to get paid for the work they do.   "

That's not the only thing new about this digital medium, but for brevity's sake I'll agree to your point. I don't feel that people shouldn't get paid for their work - everyone deserves to be paid for their work, the problem is that this is a consumer issue and not a workforce issue. There are plenty of people making music, making films, making video games and all sorts of consumer products. There is plenty of work, yes, but the consumer is not as interested in paying for just any old piece of shit that is thrown together and released. Basically, consumers are getting more fickle, and their expectation of high quality with low price points is growing stronger. There's no easy solution to this problem and I doubt there will be, but as I've said before, monthly subscription systems like Netflix are a step in the right direction. So are things like iTunes, even though I loathe Apple's system. 

 Companies are rising to meet the demands of consumers in the digital medium, and the content creators are realizing that there are more ways to distribute their product and make a profit than just through traditional means. As an example, Redbox and Netflix have absolutely destroyed the video rental service and rebuilt it to suit the modern life in just a few short years. That is what I'm referring to when I mention companies having to evolve or die. If these companies can't compete and won't evolve, they will die. Someone else will replace them. "

I think about half the people that replied to this Poll are confused about the question....
 
You are 100% going to pay for the Movie / Album. 
 
The question was, is it wrong to download it before you actually do buy it. Say if it leaked or whatever, as do Movies and Albums do all the time. 
 
I know its Illegal and that, but I just wanted to know how others felt on the matter, not because of how I need to justify my own actions or see if others I know are doing wrong. Its because I thought it would be a good question and it would be good to see which side of the fence people sit. as its different from the standard piracy debate.

If I were definitely going to buy the same film or album a few days after then I might be tempted.  I fall under the category of what someone else said of, "going to buy eventually means never buying at all", I may have good intentions at first but if I watch the film and it wasn't what I expected then I'd be more willing to forget ever downloading it.  More likely than not I'd be buying the media first and then downloading it for backup, or just the portable notion of having it on whatever laptop carrying with me.  Morally I believe it to be okay but I'm not sure if it's legal or not.   
 
I'm a bit torn on the whole downloading of free media.  I want to pay the artist for their music, movie, book...whatever, but I don't feel like I'm paying the artist but the company the artist is on.  I have no idea how much of my money that I pay for an album actually ends up in the artist hands but I'm sure it isn't much.  

 Dave Wyndorf of Monster Magnet said that if someone steals a song, enjoys it, then buys the album because of it, then it is just another form of free advertisement. However, I think that should be kept for larger bands, movies, games. I thought it was really shitty when a bunch of people pirated that choose-your-own-price PC game for charity. I mean, c'mon.

Why are we discussing illegal activities?

" Why are we discussing illegal activities? "

Wrong? No. Illegal? Yes.

morally, no , legally yes. 

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" Why are we discussing illegal activities? "

Wow, we're not posting the PS3 jailbreak grandpa.  Calm down. "

" Nope. Just like stealing money from a bank isn't wrong either. I mean, I'm gonna spend the money anyway so they end up back in the bank at some point anyway,  "

The way I see it, when you buy a piece of media, you're paying for your right to enjoy it. The physicality of the CD, DVD or whatever is completely secondary. When you look at it this way, buying a DVD, never opening it, then downloading a digital copy is completely justified.

" @ZeForgotten said:

" Nope. Just like stealing money from a bank isn't wrong either. I mean, I'm gonna spend the money anyway so they end up back in the bank at some point anyway,  "

totally similar situations oh wait no they aren't. "

" @Toms115 said:

" @ZeForgotten said:

" Nope. Just like stealing money from a bank isn't wrong either. I mean, I'm gonna spend the money anyway so they end up back in the bank at some point anyway,  "

totally similar situations oh wait no they aren't. "

Might as well download the movie, they'll be getting my money later anyway. Might as well steal their money, I'll give it back later anyway.  Seems similar to me :D "

" @ZeForgotten said:

" @Toms115 said:

" @ZeForgotten said:

" Nope. Just like stealing money from a bank isn't wrong either. I mean, I'm gonna spend the money anyway so they end up back in the bank at some point anyway,  "

totally similar situations oh wait no they aren't. "

Might as well download the movie, they'll be getting my money later anyway. Might as well steal their money, I'll give it back later anyway.  Seems similar to me :D "

well typically when you rob a bank you take more than $8 and you don't intend on giving the money back. downloading a movie isn't stealing, either; it's making a backup. if torrent sites were based on stealing and not copying then that would amount to the world's largest game of pass the parcel ever. "

@Hooded: Sorry about you wanting hiv, it's not inevitable man.  

" @Toms115 said:

" @ZeForgotten said:

" @Toms115 said:

" @ZeForgotten said:

" Nope. Just like stealing money from a bank isn't wrong either. I mean, I'm gonna spend the money anyway so they end up back in the bank at some point anyway,  "

totally similar situations oh wait no they aren't. "

Might as well download the movie, they'll be getting my money later anyway. Might as well steal their money, I'll give it back later anyway.  Seems similar to me :D "

well typically when you rob a bank you take more than $8 and you don't intend on giving the money back. downloading a movie isn't stealing, either; it's making a backup. if torrent sites were based on stealing and not copying then that would amount to the world's largest game of pass the parcel ever. "

Fucking hell, now you made me picture a world wide game of Pass the Parcel where every single person on earth were playing. Thanks for that "

Planning and doing aren't the same thing. 

" @extremeradical said:

" @gamefreak9 said:

" Depends: if your downloading real music like Jazz or thought out rock(like Tool), you should definitely reward the artist/industry, if your downloading katy Perry, then downloading is the only way to go... i mean do you really want to reward an idiot who does a brain dead music style anyone could do? Its just a guilty pleasure to hear them, don't reward them for making you feel guilty :P. "

That reasoning makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. "

Why? reward art and shun linear shit... the reason? if everyone did it then the world would have more art in it.  "

@EndlessObsidian said:

" @KingWilly said:

" @EndlessObsidian said:

" It is wrong to download movies, tv shows, etc EVEN IF you are going to buy them. I say this because most means of acquiring such media requires you to upload as you are downloading, thus you are facilitating piracy. "

Not true. There are a wealth of video sites dedicated to streaming films and TV shows. In that context, all you are doing is downloading (if that's even how streaming video works, I don't know).   

 That still doesn't negate the fact that torrent sites exist and is where most people go to get a high quality copy. Regardless of where someone downloads media, it is wrong to not pay money for a product that is being sold. Just because it has become extremely easy to download media without payment doesn't make it right. People forgot this somewhere along the way.  "

I understand your point, but I honestly disagree with it. We live in a culture based on consuming products, and we have been raised to believe that if we can get a better deal elsewhere, we should take our money and our time elsewhere. Right now the best deal is "FREE" and on the Internet, so that's where a lot of people are taking their money and time. It's not up to the consumers to conform to old standards that dictate how media is consumed, it's up to the product manufacturers to offer a better, more streamlined deal. This is the edict we're instilled with from a very young age, and I think it's kind of funny that it's bit so many in the ass because of it. "

" @ninjakiller said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" Why are we discussing illegal activities? "

Wow, we're not posting the PS3 jailbreak grandpa.  Calm down. "

Illegal activities are still illegal. This thread should be locked. "

Back on topic, I think you can ethically do it the opposite way (buy first, then pirate) but not the way you stated. It's easy to pirate something and then forget about buying it, and that is piracy, straight up.

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" @ninjakiller said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" Why are we discussing illegal activities? "

Wow, we're not posting the PS3 jailbreak grandpa.  Calm down. "

Illegal activities are still illegal. This thread should be locked. "

We aren't discussing different ways to DL media or how to go about it, simply the theory and morality of such practices. What's wrong with that? "

" Nothing wrong with it.  "

" @EndlessObsidian said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" @ninjakiller said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" Why are we discussing illegal activities? "

Wow, we're not posting the PS3 jailbreak grandpa.  Calm down. "

Illegal activities are still illegal. This thread should be locked. "

We aren't discussing different ways to DL media or how to go about it, simply the theory and morality of such practices. What's wrong with that? "

Quit trying to beat around the bush, dude. Those practices are illegal, no matter how you try and justify it. "

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" @EndlessObsidian said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" @ninjakiller said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" Why are we discussing illegal activities? "

Wow, we're not posting the PS3 jailbreak grandpa.  Calm down. "

Illegal activities are still illegal. This thread should be locked. "

We aren't discussing different ways to DL media or how to go about it, simply the theory and morality of such practices. What's wrong with that? "

Quit trying to beat around the bush, dude. Those practices are illegal, no matter how you try and justify it. "

If you took some time and read my previous posts in this thread, you would quickly learn that I did not try to justify piracy. I, in fact am avidly against piracy. Thankayouaveryamuch. "

" @EndlessObsidian said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" @EndlessObsidian said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" @ninjakiller said:

" @Mikewrestler5 said:

" Why are we discussing illegal activities? "

Wow, we're not posting the PS3 jailbreak grandpa.  Calm down. "

Illegal activities are still illegal. This thread should be locked. "

We aren't discussing different ways to DL media or how to go about it, simply the theory and morality of such practices. What's wrong with that? "

Quit trying to beat around the bush, dude. Those practices are illegal, no matter how you try and justify it. "

If you took some time and read my previous posts in this thread, you would quickly learn that I did not try to justify piracy. I, in fact am avidly against piracy. Thankayouaveryamuch. "

That's nice. At its core, though, we're still discussing illegal things.  "

" @KingWilly said:

@EndlessObsidian said:

" @KingWilly said:

" @EndlessObsidian said:

" It is wrong to download movies, tv shows, etc EVEN IF you are going to buy them. I say this because most means of acquiring such media requires you to upload as you are downloading, thus you are facilitating piracy. "

Not true. There are a wealth of video sites dedicated to streaming films and TV shows. In that context, all you are doing is downloading (if that's even how streaming video works, I don't know).   

 That still doesn't negate the fact that torrent sites exist and is where most people go to get a high quality copy. Regardless of where someone downloads media, it is wrong to not pay money for a product that is being sold. Just because it has become extremely easy to download media without payment doesn't make it right. People forgot this somewhere along the way.  "

I understand your point, but I honestly disagree with it. We live in a culture based on consuming products, and we have been raised to believe that if we can get a better deal elsewhere, we should take our money and our time elsewhere. Right now the best deal is "FREE" and on the Internet, so that's where a lot of people are taking their money and time. It's not up to the consumers to conform to old standards that dictate how media is consumed, it's up to the product manufacturers to offer a better, more streamlined deal. This is the edict we're instilled with from a very young age, and I think it's kind of funny that it's bit so many in the ass because of it. "

Hey man, of course it would be awesome if things were free. But they are not. People work and put creative ideas into producing content for people to consume and enjoy and they should be rewarded for it. Are you completely against this train of thought? The best deal on the Internet is not "FREE", thats like going to the supermarket and grabbing some apples, putting them in your pocket and calling them "FREE". Just because the object is there doesn't mean you can just take it. As for manufacturers offering a better, streamlined deal, HULU, Netflix, Itunes, ZUNE, PSN all offer easy ways to acquire media for a cost. Most importantly of all, it's legal to do so.  So do you honestly believe it's ok to download movies/tv shows via torrent sites or the other wealth of video sites dedicated to streaming films and tv shows for free? "

" @crusader8463 said:

" Nothing wrong with it.  "

Are you fucking stupid? "

No it's not. 
 
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

" @extremeradical said:

" @gamefreak9 said:

" Depends: if your downloading real music like Jazz or thought out rock(like Tool), you should definitely reward the artist/industry, if your downloading katy Perry, then downloading is the only way to go... i mean do you really want to reward an idiot who does a brain dead music style anyone could do? Its just a guilty pleasure to hear them, don't reward them for making you feel guilty :P. "

That reasoning makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. "

Why? reward art and shun linear shit... the reason? if everyone did it then the world would have more art in it.  "

" @Mikewrestler5: Oh well, I guess it was fun while it lasted. :P ohhhhhh Internet forums. "

" @Mikewrestler5: Are you a troll or just brain dead? "

" @gamefreak9 said:

" @extremeradical said:

" @gamefreak9 said:

" Depends: if your downloading real music like Jazz or thought out rock(like Tool), you should definitely reward the artist/industry, if your downloading katy Perry, then downloading is the only way to go... i mean do you really want to reward an idiot who does a brain dead music style anyone could do? Its just a guilty pleasure to hear them, don't reward them for making you feel guilty :P. "

That reasoning makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. "

Why? reward art and shun linear shit... the reason? if everyone did it then the world would have more art in it.  "

What one person considers art another person can consider it, as you call it, "linear shit". It's totally subjective and a totally idiotic way of looking at things. "