Is pro wrestling really looked down on that much?

I was just watching the recent TNT where they played WWE All Stars and listening to Jeff and Jared talk about pro wrestling was just absolutely depressing. It was just a lot of "I can't believe I used to/still do watch this. I must really hate myself" mixed in with "Look at how good the old days were compared to nowadays". It was just kind of annoying/disheartening to hear that this is what people actually think about pro wrestling.

Look, I get it. A lot of really stupid things happen in wrestling nowadays and it's kind of the cool thing to call wrestling fans stupid rednecks and to call wrestling itself stupid, but come on. Is it really the knee jerk reaction for a lot of people when they hear "Pro Wrestling" to look down on it and bad mouth it in every possible way?

In short: Yes.

I find myself doing the same, but I do it from a place of love. I loved wrestling, despite it being incredibly dumb. That's part of what made it endearing. But in recent times it's just been getting pretty bad. When I look down on it now, it's only because I know it could be better.

There will always be people on the outside looking down on it though, it's just a thing that happens. It doesn't really matter.

Everything was better back in the day. Except in the cases where it wasn't. It's revisionist history. The Attitude era was filled with plenty of shit as well.

Yes, but the product is a mixture of both nostalgia and aimed at a different audience, thus alienating anybody that is remotely the age of the GB crew. The Nostalgia of the old days back in an era when wrestling would do anything to try to get ratings (back then there actually was competition). Now, WWE is so established they can afford to make up crappy storylines up and still stay in business. That and now more than ever, the product in the language and overall tone is aimed at kids in general.

So WWE is just another version of say Power Rangers or any super heroes aimed at kids. To a kid, it may be cool, but to the rest of us that grew out of it, we at best see it as something dumb that kids can like.

I remember my friends and my brother really liking wrestling in the early 2000s, but I always thought it was stupid and dumb in a way I couldn't find entertaining.

It's fun to go out and watch one of the big events at a bar with friends, but anything past that is really sad.

One thing I don't understand is how people can hate on new WWE when those same people admit that they don't watch it.

I also don't think many of the story-lines from pre-attitude era were better than what's on TV today.

-O no, Macho Man is jealous because Hogan is helping Ms. Elizabeth. Time to fight!

-Lets have a bodybuilding contest. O, I lost (Rick Rude)? That's it, time to fight!

Someone help me out

Yup. I logically cannot put to reason why people (including myself) would look down on watching pro-wrestling as oppose to other popular enterntainment like terrible sitcoms and dramas, reality TV, or even gaming. Still, if a grown man or woman tells me that they like to watch the WWE I cannot help but judge them solely on that behavior.

I used to be a pretty hardcore wrestling fan back in the 90's, but I've dropped off almost completely once most of the "old school" guys left and went on the do movies and all that dumb shit.

Edit: I still have my old NWO and WCW T-shirts somewhere I think. I also have a signed Goldberg picture my uncle gave me.

I've only caught bits and pieces of shows, mostly when I'm at a friends house who likes to have it on in the background. I'm pretty sure that shit is... shit.

i've been watching it a little bit here and there because someone at work talks about it. i kind of think everything was better back in the day. i watch the ending of TNA because ballator mma is on after.

i've been watching it a little bit here and there because someone at work talks about it. i kind of think everything was better back in the day. i watch the ending of TNA because ballator mma is on after.

It's looked down upon by the outsiders, but it's celebrated by the people who get it. Jared Rae is a guy that fucking loves pro wrestling, but it's easy to fall down to discussing the cons of modern day Pro Wrestling around people who don't understand it. If you want to discuss (mocking or celebrating) wrestling on Giant Bomb, we have a thread devoted towards it (which is the most active and awesome thread on Giant Bomb btw... we have belts.)

Right now, WWE is at a point where Triple H is slowly taking control from Vince McMahon and over the past few years, WWE has been hiring some of the best indy wrestlers in the world (over what WWE has done for the past decade and hire football players and body builders), so the product in the ring is enormously much better than it was in the attitude era and most era's before that.

And seriously.. how can you have anything bad to say about this?

wrestling is a soap opera, that's all it is.

@animasta: Mixed with improvising a physical performance in front of a very large crowd.

I always thought wrestling was the stupidest thing ever put on by human beings.

@slashdance: why is that?

Being a wrestling fan means hating yourself to a certain degree. You deal with a lot of brain-numbingly stupid shit and need to be prepared to question what you're doing with your life but then there are moments that make it all worth it. Moments that you can point to and say "this is why I love wrestling."

actual soap operas also have actual actors that don't yell everything, so they are basically at the same level

I'm not being condescending, because well I watch shows that are just as terrible as wrestling, but wrestling is just physical enough for stereotypical dudes to accept the intense melodrama of the situation (I watched it for much of the early aughts, by the way).

@turboman: I never understood the appeal of watching a bunch of dudes in their underwear pretending to fight. I probably just don't get it, but I'm not sure I want to.

I was into wrestling at the age of 8 for literally a month, I remember because for Christmas, I got a little wrestler figure, thought it was cool, woke up the next day and went, yeah, this actually isn't that fun to watch. Pretty sure that little toy is here somewhere, not even sure who it was, that's how little I was into it at the time (not to imply I'm interested in it now).

@animasta: Eh, the yelling promo's are kind of dying out, it's still around though.

@slashdance: It's more about being able to tell a story that continually builds up to a big match where two wrestlers are able to demonstrate their performance at a high level. It's like watching a UFC fight except without the chance of the fights on the card being terrible matchups. It's fine if you don't like it, just don't call it the dumbest thing to ever be put on by human beings (ya know, there's stuff like war out there.)

Wrestling has done some really stupid shit in the past and that's what people remember who don't normally watch. Mae Young giving birth to a hand and Mark Henry was the father was pretty fucking stupid. WWE did some really stupid crap during their attitude era that people look down on, but it was nothing like what WCW did to piss off real wrestling fans (David Arquette as champ). I would say that nowadays very few people think of wrestling fans as rednecks. It is too mainstream for it to be seen that way.

Since we are talking about wrestling I feel the product is stale and of course will continue to watch holding on to that pipe dream of something will change because they constantly tease stuff every now and then. I think like me, most are tired of the current product and shit needs to change. Like mentioned before they are starting to get really good wrestlers and not just body builders, but WWE still needs a few things to happen in order to move to the next era and create a better in order to try and appease fans more. Personally I feel any of these will help the product.

• Big Show needs to go. He is boring, old, and takes up slots fresher/younger wrestlers could use. I really just don't think he draws like WWE thinks he does.
• WWE Creative team is just dumb. They keep making really stupid wrestling gimmicks that they don't even support after the debut. Fandango, Brodus, etc. I know they released their VP of Creative the other day, so hopefully something will happen.
• Randy Orton needs to hurry up and fail the wellness policy for a 3rd time. I can't stand watching him. Never liked him when he was The Legend Killer and I don't like him now. He no sells everything and used to refuse to put people over.
• The announce team needs to change up. Michael Cole either needs to be replaced or stop being fed lines from Vince. Tired of hearing "Vintage *Name*" when they do the same move every week. JBL is awesome, but not always on and that needs to change. King is just a waste of space. Glad he survived his heart attack, but hate that he returned.
• Cena needs to do something. I understand he is the face of the company, but he is one of the reasons that the product is stale. Punk was Champion for over a year and main-evented how many PPVs? Unforgivable.
• Linda needs to stop running for offices so the company isn't held back by their image. It's constant fodder for the opponent and in turn leads to even dumber PGish crap. Blading needs to return or actual destruction needs to happen like chairs to the head once in awhile.
• Triple H just needs a couple more years to get into the groove and get more control. I have faith that he will start to turn the product around.
• RAW needs to go back to 2 hours or start filling the 3 hours with better content. There is too much filler.
• The fucking camera needs to stop shaking every time someone throws a punch. No one cared when they could tell the kick or punch missed before. It's so annoying to watching something and the camera is constantly moving up and down, side to side.

@tycobb: wait a minute, raw is three hours?

what the fuck

I just don't see the appeal of a bunch of roided up dudes in tights surround themselves in a ridiculous plot and then fake fight each other.

@animasta: Yep, changed to 3 hours when they hit their 1000th episode last year. I honestly have a hard time watching it now because it is dragged out. And of course it is actually 3+ hours since they always go past the timeslot by 5-15 minutes.

I don't think people actually GET how hard pro wrestling is. When the two guys and the ref step in the ring they know at most two things.

1. Who is getting put over and winning the match.
2. Possibly any big spots and how the finish is going to go down.

These guys are improvising on the fly while communicating with each other in the ring making sure the match looks good and making sure they are as safe as they can be. You CAN get hurt doing these moves. Wrestler by the name of Droz crippled because he landed from a power bomb wrong. Adam "Edge" Copland who is in his thirties had to retire WAY early because he broke his neck and the resulting trauma through the years made continuing wrestling a death sentence for him.

These guys give their bodies and their souls every damn night. Touring over 200 days a year on the road new city every night. Its an extremely tough life to lead in a sport where there are only so many spots on TV. And there are indie guys working JUST as hard for $25 dollars a night at some shitty high-school gym doing a show for 50 people because they are in love with pro-wrestling.

It is easy to hate on wrestling now days because things were always "better" back in your day. Except when it wasn't. Its just fun to watch wrestling because it IS dumb but its dumb in a way that is amazing. When your in the arena and the show is going on the laws of reality are almost suspended. You have things that happen that just don't make sense in the real world but you don't question them when you watch the show because the universe of WWE runs on its own logic. And thats great! Its fun and its more fun to watch and discuss with other people. Which is why its fun watching even a bad show with the guys from the wrestling thread. Even if the show ends up being sub-par for the night you'll always have fun at least making fun with it. But its like the story of Metal Gear Solid or hell Saints Row the more you try to take it seriously it just seems dumb in an awful way. Its when you let go and let yourself just be absorbed by the show that you get why wrestling is so much fun.

No. My great-grandfather, a grizzled veteran of The Irish War for Independence, watched Pro-Wrestling at the end of his life. He didn't watch anything near as intense as the WWF. He had died long before that, but he did watch stuff like the original "Shiek" etc.

However, I do look down on current Pro Wrestling producers such as Vince McMahon who run his wrestler's into the ground forcing them to steroids and drugs in order to stay afloat. Additionally, the wrestling he makes is clearly unsafe; Look at Owen Hart. He makes millions while many of his wrestlers pay with their life.

I recognize that it can be stupid, but I think it's stupid in a really fun way. Personally I think it's been at kind of a low point, but people shouldn't judge others for what they enjoy. Let them have their fun.

@demoskinos: your first part is fine but just because you should respect the people doesn't mean you need to respect the sport (performance), or even the company.

I mean, I'm sure wrestling could be more than it is, but the WWE is not that, and they, aside from TNA, are the wrestling thing, so...

@max_cherry: The days of steroids are long gone. That doesn't mean there aren't a few guys that still do them but the wellness program in the WWE is leagues better than it ever was during the 90's. Look at guys like CM Punk who was the longest reigning champion of the last few decades. They are absolutely not the bodybuilder body type. Thats why guys like Bruno Sammartino who was so critical of the WWE's product for years and years is finally being put in the hall of fame now that he has seen the improvements to the product.

well, to be fair, the amount of fight scenes are actually quite low since all they do is fill up time with dumb sketches. Imagine a work of shakespeare or something where its 75% storyline and instead of a fight or death scene, you have a match. Too bad the writers are shit.

I have always thought it looked ridiculous whether it's real wrestling or "fake" wrestling.

Wrestling peaked with that TLC match at Summerslam. All downhill since then.

Wrestling has always been a mixture of stupid and awesome. Whether its due to me being older and my tastes changing, just growing out of it, or if wrestling really is just terrible these days who can say. Personally I think it's a mix of all of them. All I know is that when I was a kid I watched it religiously but I have not cared for it in a long time. For me the big thing is that none of the wrestlers they have going anymore are any interesting to me. They don't have anything going for them character wise that makes me want to care about the match or the wrestlers story. My dad still watches it and I will stop and watch 5-15 min from time to time and I just walk away out of boredom or shaking my head most of the time.

Sure, wrestling is dumb, but DUMB in the best way possible. If you're taking it super serious and over-thinking everything you're probably going to not have such a great time. Just roll with the punches and enjoy it for what it is; entertainment.

Also, the wrestling thread here on GB is easily the most awesome thread on the forums. There's reason it has over 309,000 views and almost 11,000 replies to it.

yeah, i agree with this.

i mean if someone likes watching it, thats cool im not going to think less of them. i have a guilty pleasure of awful action flicks. like REALLY awful ones.

@turboman: That was obviously a hyperbole.

I think now it kinda is due to how PG and f'in boring it is. Back in the day though before I became a fan I just knew it as the show that my parents didn't want me to watch cause of how brutal it was. In terms of the wrestler themselves have mad respect for those guys seriously get injured and put their bodies on the line to entertain the fans.

I fucking loved wrestling when I was a kid: The Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior, and Bret Hart.

But I can remember when I was around 13 that moment I lost interest in it and quit watching it forever. I had finally realized it was all fake and it became dumb to me. I have fond memories of going to the video store and renting Summer Slam or Wrestlemania whenever they came out because we couldn't afford to buy pay per vues. But I have no desire to go back and watch those events or current wrestling.

Although seeing those Macho Man promo clips on TNT was pretty awesome. What a genius performer.

It's not "knee-jerk." It's just what happened.

@i_stay_puft: Brutal =/= Good In many cases matches from the attitude era relied way to much on what many people call "garbage wrestling" a.k.a blood, weapons and other "hardcore" tropes. Having blood and swearing doesn't make it a interesting product. Not going to deny that there were some classic moments in the attitude era but with it being PG that just means the writers have to be more creative to get good story lines. And when you DO get good story lines they end up being really good.

Take for example The Shield. They are by far the best thing going on in the WWE right now. The match they had at TLC was amazing. And then take example RAW two weeks ago. CM Punk did a pile driver to John Cena and it was amazing. Why was it amazing? Because its a move that is banned now and you hardly ever see it. What I'm saying is when you have the dial always cranked to 11 then 11 becomes the new 1 if anything the PG era lets the crazy moments shine brighter because things like that are more of a rarity now. When they first made the switch to PG it was real bad and 07-10 were filled with a bunch of awful stuff. Its gotten way better now though since the writers are now used to writing for PG rated TV.

Where I live if you admitted to watching wrestling people would laugh you out of the room. So yes people wrestling has a really bad reputation.

True I became a fan during the Attitude Era, but when I mean brutal I meant earlier wrestling when the violence of it put parents in a quiver. I grew up in a time when my parents deemed the Simpsons too raunchy and wouldn't let me watch it when I was until at least 10 years old. I just think I grew out of wrestling and the soap opera storylines. I will admit wrestling is what introduced me to MMA when Brock Lesnar joined for a brief time, since then I've been hooked.

I used to be a big fan of wrestling. That slowly started going away once Cena became huge though (not to mention the gimmicks and storylines they had). He could not wrestle at all and with all the focus they always had on him slowly made me lose interest. Maybe he has improved since but I do not really watch it now. My sister likes telling me about what is going on and it still sounds like shit to me.

As a very young kid, I was, according to my parents, VERY much into lucha libre. I don't know how that is looked upon by fans of the American variety.

Anyway, I grew out of that and ultimately had nothing more than a cursory interest in wrestling as a tween. I never watched it, but I played some SNES games and the AKI games. I enjoyed the ridiculous, comic book-like personas and the gameplay.

But once those games weren't being made, I stopped caring about wrestling. Now I just get my wrestling knowledge from a buddy of mine (whose interest has waned recently) and Jeff (who seems to be in a similar boat). That's about all the wrestling I need now.

I don't get why people look so down upon it. I usually refer people to the Barthes essay which does a better job describing it than I ever could.

http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~ikalmar/illustex/Barthes-wrestling.htm

It is live theater mixed with the athleticism of sports, which is a combo of things I like and shouldn't seem crazy.

I definately look down on it. I think it's dumb as hell. Maybe if you are 12.

Andre the giant was 46 when he passed away; Mr.Perfect was 43; and Owen Hart was 34. Even Randy Savage who was much older than the three aforementioned names when he died was only 58! The list goes on and on. Wrestling is not worth it.