Is this an appropriate response from a government teacher?

@actionTACO: Not the United States. In Texas you even have to say a pledge for it. Which is just like the United States pledge except shorter and substitutes America for Texas.

Pledging alliance to a nation  , patriotism those are silly things to do .... as if countries were set in stone. Also patriots when will you understand that "honoring" a piece of cloth , pledging , a nation  does not = people and  respect for the dead and their sacrifices ,  that is the biggest dumb thing I 've ever heard. And lets not forget that nationalism has caused 2 of the most destructive wars in man kind history with the highest amounts of deaths in war , so a  kid not standing up for a dumb thing is not the worst thing in the world , altho OP there are better ways to stand up for ones principles (unless you were being only a lazy boy which then you are indeed a dick).

You should be kicked out of the country if you hate America so much.

Go live in Africa and drop out of school, see if you like it then.

  I'm inclined to believe that isn't exactly how the conversation went because people make themselves sound a lot better when they're telling the story. Regardless, if you feel like she was out of line then you should talk to the principal, not post it on Giant Bomb.

You should report her for bein completely insane. Or, videotape her with your phone next time she freaks out. Some kid egged on a teacher and put it on youtube it was pretty classic. Watchin a teacher freak out and try to pound the crap out of someone.

Ya she sounds like an asshole but if I was in that situation I would have at least stood up. In high school, I never said the pledge. If I came into class on time, which was rare, I would at least stand up. Also, there's a good chance you spiced up this story to favor your situation, it happens a lot when people "take it to the internets".

She isn't right and neither are you, if I was in another country I would stand and show respect for their culture and beliefs. So your both dicks.

She acted like a jerk. You had every right to do as you did. Although if I were you I'd propably at least stand up, but I'm not here to judge your personal opinion regarding America.

@Twitchey said:

@actionTACO: Not the United States. In Texas you even have to say a pledge for it. Which is just like the United States pledge except shorter and substitutes America for Texas.

wow, that somehow manages to be even worse. gg texas

and lol at all the "both sides wrong" posts. have you people ever considered installing a line gauge in your figurative rectums so you can get some scientific measurements on exactly how far that metaphorical fence your all sitting on is wedged up your collective asses?

It's an inappropriate response for any adult at a high school, especially a substitute that has no idea about your background. But you have to understand that while you might not respect the country, others do, and the substitute likely saw your response as offensive. That doesn't excuse what she said, but you still could have shown more respect for her views.

Although I don't quite understand why you DON'T say the pledge, I'll try and respect that.

I do have to say, I like how you phrased the title of the thread, referring to her as a "government" teacher instead of public school teacher like anyone else.  Definitely shows off just what axe you're grinding.

It's America, can't you get her fired for that?

Why the hell should you be forced to respect something? Isn't America supposed to be the land of Freedom? She is completely in the wrong, you are completely in the right.

I take the view that giving people respect and making them feel good about themselves is a great way, from personal experience, to live life and jointly people are so, so, so much more inclined to see and follow your way of thinking if you make them feel like they're important and have higher ability than you at a certain specific physical ability or skill.

Everybody has an ego and it sounds like this rather obnoxious, and stick-up-the-ass type, person's ego is very centered around pride in their country and state, which you may have appeared to have been showing a small level of disrespect towards something they stand for by ironically not even standing up. I say appeared because you're likely a good, respectable person yourself.

I'd write a letter to this person that goes something like this:

Dear such and such,

We had a rather heated argument the other day through differences of oppinion. You seem to have a very respectable loyalty to our country and while I do love my life in America I often fail to react in a curtious, respectul manner, as I'm sometimes bull-headed and very often I'm wrong about things, frequently finding myself doing things that I later consider rather stupid for doing.

(Please don't be offended, this's a strategy I've used myself with hard to deal with people, I've found that the above sort of paragraph generally makes people who hate or are very angry at you/me, even though they're yet meet me, turn to a metaphorical easily spread tub of warm butter, because you've just said all of what they were thinking before they had a chance to think it and say it themselves, so their's no more for them to say other than to agree and tell you that you aren't actually silly or bad at all. You disarmed them without attacking their ego or intelligence, and you're effectively under their radar now, they could possibly even like you and feel rather rude for talking to you the way they did. But consider that if they do insist on further berating you that just makes them look incredibly foolish and cruel. For which most people will start to visibly resent him/her for it they hear about it.)

Next bit:

On the other side of this I also revere the right of conduct as a citizen of this great country, and also of this great nation of ours, the right to freedom of speech and as a side to this right, essentially the right to freedom of my feelings, as are you with yours. Thankyou for so considerately and adroitly making me aware of this, you reminded me of myself. We all have feelings and my shouting/rudeness at you for attempting to correct what possibly percieved as inconsiderate behaviour has given me a better perspective. I would ask though that next time you may feel I'm being disrespectful towards your personal beliefs that I'm really showing respect for them in a different way, I will either way stand up in future, and while I still hold the same beliefs that I originally had before our confrontation, in fact they're stonger now because of the way you approach than they would have if you had maybe approached me even more so adroitly, I've thankfully been corrected and will not do this again.

Yours sincerely, such and such/Twitchey.

Granted this's not everybody's way, but a guy from the early 1900's known as Dale carnegie taught this stuff, wrote a book about what he taught and only down to fantastic word-of-mouth did his book gain massive unexpected popularity, and his book still sells in several thousands each year 100 years on, amassing to several considerable million sold in total.

You seem like a cool guy Twitchey thankyou for putting up a topic that made me prattle on about something I'm very passionate about, you've caused me much enjoyment in writing the above. :-)

You're followed.

Put your hand over your heart, mouth the words, and sit back down.

From where I sit, you're both in the wrong. Standing up for the pledge doesn't mean that you support it, it's just a way of acknowledging that the thing's happening. I have many, many students who stand up but don't say the pledge or put their hands over their heart and nobody's ever given them guff about it. Failing to stand up, on the other hand, can easily be seen as a sign of disrespect. It's like being that guy in the front row who doesn't stand for a performer while everybody else gives a standing ovation--by your inaction you're implying that the pledge isn't even worthy of acknowledgement.

Now the teacher should be reprimanded for 1) acting childish and 2) failing to maintain an open classroom environment. Especially in government and history--the two subjects I teach--it's all to easy to let political tensions run high. By "showing her colors," so to speak, the teacher subtly (or not so subtly) shut down students who didn't share her beliefs. I like to keep my students guessing what I believe so they feel more comfortable speaking out. That wouldn't happen if my kids thought I would somehow reprimand them for disagreeing with me. So to answer your question: no, that was not an appropriate response, but you could have avoided the situation.

Public schools are government indoctrination camps. Being coerced to stand with hand over heart and pledge "under god" is like something from a 1984 dictatorship, not a supposedly free republic.

Public schools are government indoctrination camps. Being coerced to stand with hand over heart and pledge "under god" is like something from a 1984 dictatorship, not a supposedly free republic.

@actionTACO said:

@Twitchey said:

@actionTACO: Not the United States. In Texas you even have to say a pledge for it. Which is just like the United States pledge except shorter and substitutes America for Texas.

wow, that somehow manages to be even worse. gg texas

and lol at all the "both sides wrong" posts. have you people ever considered installing a line gauge in your figurative rectums so you can get some scientific measurements on exactly how far that metaphorical fence your all sitting on is wedged up your collective asses?

Oh I forgot being moderate isn't cool on the internet. 

America IS still a free country, isn't it? So not saying the pledge (why the hell is that even a thing, jesus) or standing up for it, you're well within your rights. Fuck that "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude, just think for yourself and decide what is right. Don't let other people tell you what you should do, ESPECIALLY if the best they can do is play the patriotism card. Wankers.

i had an english teacher tell me that i was a communist because i didn't pledge to the flag. admittedly, she was trying to use it as an insult, and has very little idea of what communism truly is outside of american propaganda. 

Whatever your reason, be it good or not, you have a right not to say the pledge.  So, in my eyes she was in the wrong, especially in how ridiculous she acted if she really said all those things.

It's an inappropriate response for any adult at a high school, especially a substitute that has no idea about your background. But you have to understand that while you might not respect the country, others do, and the substitute likely saw your response as offensive. That doesn't excuse what she said, but you still could have shown more respect for her views.Although I don't quite understand why you DON'T say the pledge, I'll try and respect that.

Ahahaha, that was hilarious indeed. I'd just ignore it.

Short answer that is not professional for the teacher, if a student recordered that and showed it to a teacher she would have been in some trouble. However you should have stood for the pledge, it's your country, you should still stand for your country even if you don't like Amercia.

That's a completely approprite response. You were being a complete dick. I mean, not respecting your country!? That's twisted shit. It's your freedom to be disrespectful. But you're obviously going through a rebellious teenage stage. Probably watched some Liberal Iraq war documentary or something. Most people I saw go through their "fight the man" stage, grew out of it. It offends people like me that people like you can't appreciate the sacrifices that have been made. Especially in a time of war were we have 1-3 soldiers die everyday, at least stand up. 

I gamed with someone in Philly who in the 90's during school ended up on crutches after a fall and..

Yeah you get the idea. His teacher got to continue her work. No chance in hell especially these days to get something out of it but you know..  "Would be a shame if the media heard about this, wouldn't it?"

 
 @UnrealDP said: 

Yeah, she was kinda out of line, but you were being a prick for just out right not standing. You could have tried to be a bit respectful, and stand while lip syncing.

She was in the wrong but your actions seem like you're doing it just to get attention.

Well, theoretically, your'e both right.  It is within your teachers rights to express their views on people who don't participate in the pledge of allegiance.  However, I think any teacher who is potentially so closed minded must be a pretty bad teacher (maybe this is why America is so far behind in academics).  Also, it is a teachers duty to provide a safe environment for critical thinking and discussion, this kind of behavior seems to do the opposite.  In the end, your teacher has rights to think and say these things but should not because they have a higher duty to uphold. 

No, it was not appropriate of her to rag on you like that. Although you are allowed to voice your opinion, I also think, however, you are being immature and a little ungrateful. Like someone else on this thread mentioned, it is disrespectful to those around you to not do the pledge; you should do it whether you mean it or not, its just common courtesy. I'm not even an American, so I can only imagine what someone in the U.S. would think about your behavior. I think if you were to move to Pakistan you would start to truly appreciate how lucky you are to be living in the westernized world. If you were to do something like you did in class in Pakistan, for example, you would have a lot more to worry about than the political stature (or whatever it is you don't like) of America.

she is a bigot and should be fired. the country she loves so much gives you the freedom to do what you want without being persecuted.
its like that episode of futurama where zoidberg burns the american flag and his lawyer says he hates zoidberg for doing it but he will defend his right to do it with every ounce of his strength.

but a bitch like this teacher would probably never see the irony in that.

Report her.

Yea shes an idiot, but one day you will be older and have a bad day and probably be an idiot as well.  Just let it slide, good Karma.

Why can't we all just get along? :'(

i think if you're gonna differ from everyone else in such a way, while there is no problem with it in my opinion, you should expect something like that to happen once in a while. it also sounds like you handled it really well as you weren't really offended by the teacher, so i don't see a problem here

The whole "just show respect and do it" argument is driving me crazy. The point of the pledge isn't a show of respect like standing during the national anthem, it is a damn PLEDGE of ALLEGIANCE to a GOVERNMENT and its POLICIES. Personally I refuse to pledge allegiance to any groups of people, especially a group with the pack mentality and military that the United States has.

@McGhee_the_Insomniac said:

Public schools are government indoctrination camps. Being coerced to stand with hand over heart and pledge "under god" is like something from a 1984 dictatorship, not a supposedly free republic.

We have always been at war with Eastasia

Damn Pacifist hippie! 

Only in america....

The teacher is an idiot. I know plenty of high school kids who don't stand up for the pledge, not even because they hate America just because they're too lazy to stand up. But, dude, just stand up for the pledge. I understand that it's your right but just do it to shut people up. 

Its kinda expected I mean teachers are paid shit in the States.

@Scapegoat: There's a difference between being patriotic, and calling someone else a dick for not being so. I'm asking why it is that you think the OP's a dick for not placing any national pride he might have upon a flag. Especially when the pledge contains material he might find objectionable (under god?).