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#1 Posted by Ghost_Cat (1458 posts) -

So coming the next few months will be a warning system from your ISP when they "detect" illegal content is being uploaded or downloaded via P2P software like bitTorrent. You can read all of it here (it's not that long), but basically you will be warned at first, follow by various consequences your ISP has set up. They cannot, however, cut you out of there services (Of course, why would they want to?). So how do you guys feel about this, and what do you see in the future for file sharing networks? Do you think the ISPs will receive a backlash from the people? Will it affect anything at all? Personally, I feel like file sharing has slowly gotten out of this public mindset as something terrible, and people have found unique ways of marketing their material through P2P networks. I also think this will do nothing to increase the profits for content's creators.

#2 Posted by BaneFireLord (2949 posts) -

Considering I don't pirate things, I don't have a problem with this. The bad thing that could happen would be the detection software freaking out and identifying legal downloads (such as Steam, etc.) as illegal.

#3 Posted by crusader8463 (14423 posts) -

No good ever comes from shit like this.

#4 Posted by Ghost_Cat (1458 posts) -

@BaneFireLord: I am concern about the Steam issue too, along with people hacking neighboring connections to torrent content.

#5 Edited by CaLe (4018 posts) -

There's no way they can track every single thing that is uploaded online (for them to tag it as being illegal I mean). There'll be ways around it, just like everything.

#6 Posted by ThePickle (4186 posts) -

Piraters are always ahead of the ISPs. People who really want to torrent things will find a way around this stuff.

#7 Posted by Demoskinos (15009 posts) -

The only reason this is a thing is because the RIAA is the most ridiculous organization on the planet. Even OPEC can't beat them in terms of greed a d flat out stupidity.

#8 Posted by SomeJerk (3296 posts) -

You'll have to use something stronger than TOR and have a good explanation for your traffic, with the systems they have in place that can check your traffic out in realtime or in post. Scanning raw data for copyrighted material has gotten a lot quicker over the years too, I've seen low quality youtube video recordings from dumbphones of coverbands playing on the street get detected and marked as containing copyrighted material.
 
So don't be a pirate (of existing goods that you can purchase, license or procure legally one way or another).

#9 Posted by Ghost_Cat (1458 posts) -

The world of pirating content is huge and sensitive to change, so I am very curious to see how it adapts or reacts to these acts of enforcement. I also feel that certain groups will not take too kindly to this sort of thing.

#10 Edited by Alexander (1721 posts) -

Piracy is a consumer choice that benefits all customers, it's going to carry on regardless of these measures, e.g. increased use of VPNs.

#11 Posted by Funrush (70 posts) -

@BaneFireLord said:

Considering I don't pirate things, I don't have a problem with this. The bad thing that could happen would be the detection software freaking out and identifying legal downloads (such as Steam, etc.) as illegal.

Chances are this.

They ask for $35 for a review of your case. I'm imagining some false accusations will be happening soon.

#12 Posted by Rohok (554 posts) -

I'm not going to be seen legally buying porn. Sorry. It's a matter of pride that I commit such crimes.

#13 Posted by Jrinswand (1710 posts) -
@Alexander said:
Piracy is a consumer choice that benefits all customers
What?
#14 Posted by Leptok (942 posts) -
@CaLe

There's no way they can track every single thing that is uploaded online (for them to tag it as being illegal I mean). There'll be ways around it, just like everything.

Maybe not, but I bet they will for popular stuff. Or comcast will go after stuff from hbo.
#15 Posted by Toxeia (730 posts) -

@Jrinswand: Maybe he means that competition is a driving force in the market, and competing with free is so difficult that their products should be amazing and easy to obtain legally for a reasonable price. If only it worked that way.

#16 Posted by Cameron (603 posts) -

Doesn't just about every torrent client encrypt the data sent and then decrypt it on the receiving end in order to mask the content being transfered? If so, how are they going to get more specific than just knowing you are using a torrent client to transfer information (which is completely legal as long as the information isn't subject to copyright)? Are people going to get notices for downloading Blizzard games because they use peer-to-peer to cut down on bandwidth usage? This seems like another silly anti-piracy plan that has too many problems to be practical.

#17 Posted by TooWalrus (13232 posts) -

Sweden don't care.

#18 Posted by Stete (748 posts) -

Yeah, best of luck to them in successfully implementing a system like that. I'm sure that measures like this won't put the blame on innocent people who have no idea what p2p is just because someone in their neighborhood downloaded an episode of Dexter, nor will the nefarious pirates find a way around it. No sir.

#19 Posted by BigBoss1911 (2490 posts) -

Peerblock.

#20 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Ghost_Cat said:

I feel like file sharing has slowly gotten out of this public mindset as something terrible

Has it ever been considered terrible by the average joe? Shit I knew tons of random people that downloaded from the likes of Kazaa without batting an eyelid.

Loads of people watch those free TV online websites too, which is pretty much the same thing as piracy - just streamed.

#21 Posted by Alexander (1721 posts) -
@Toxeia said:

@Jrinswand: Maybe he means that competition is a driving force in the market, and competing with free is so difficult that their products should be amazing and easy to obtain legally for a reasonable price. If only it worked that way.

I think in some ways it doesn't work out that way, in others it does and for the most part is good for all consumers. Content distributors are very slow to adapt to consumer demand, and where they can, they'll charge the consumer as much as possible. I haven't conducted research on the matter but I'll hazard a guess and say piracy has led to, or at least sped up or positively contributed to the process of delivering content more conveniently and at a lower price. You might say some DRM practises are making things anything but convenient, and it sure is a headache in some cases - but I'll submit that iTunes entered a part in the market held almost exclusively by internet piracy, the days of having to buy a whole album for that one track you wanted came to an end. Would record labels have played ball with Apple as readily if it weren't for the millions of people downloading everything for free on Limewire etc.? I'm going to guess no.
#22 Posted by Animasta (14711 posts) -

I don't pirate stuff from torrents anyway, hopefully they dont get after me for torrenting legal stuff

#23 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2341 posts) -

My disc drive is currently broken so I torrent games I actually own physical copies of. I won't get in trouble will I?

#24 Posted by alternate (2713 posts) -

I am not sure if the US system is the same as most already being implemented - but usually they are not tracking anything. An copyright holder complains after logging your IP address on a torrent and that is how they register an infringement.

#25 Posted by alternate (2713 posts) -

@SomeDeliCook said:

My disc drive is currently broken so I torrent games I actually own physical copies of. I won't get in trouble will I?

Morally I don't see a problem but legally it is just as illegal as not owning the game.

#26 Posted by myketuna (1723 posts) -

I don't pirate as much as I used to when I was younger (and penniless). That said, the only things I do pirate now are television shows that I missed/don't have the channel. Not really worried about it too much. Although, the idea is still really stupid.

#27 Posted by Akyho (1677 posts) -

UK and surrounding Europe has had this system in place for the last 5 years. We are still here and you dont here of people bitching even if they are guilty. Its pretty standard to me.

#28 Posted by TheVideoHustler (406 posts) -

Guess half of America is going to end up with a deep speaking cell mate named "Big Jim"

#29 Edited by Keavy_Rain (130 posts) -

@SomeDeliCook: Read your software license agreement. You don't own anything; you've been given a license for the data on the disc.

Also, dude...$20 at Fry's for an internal DVD drive...

My biggest worry about the death of piracy is it will also mean the death of albums, books, movies, and games that can't or won't be legally sold through digital distribution due to copyright or licensing issues. The physical copies get rarer and rarer with each passing day and piracy is keeping this stuff alive. We're long overdue for a massive overhaul of copyright law and we DEFINITELY need to make it easier to move abandoned or dead IP's to public domain.

#30 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@BigBoss1911 said:

Peerblock.

Nope. It's your ISP any Peerblock or VPN still has to pass through your ISP.

#31 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@alternate said:

@SomeDeliCook said:

My disc drive is currently broken so I torrent games I actually own physical copies of. I won't get in trouble will I?

Morally I don't see a problem but legally it is just as illegal as not owning the game.

Why would you. All those free games off torrent sites install spybots and key loggers and disguise it as the game .exe file.

#32 Edited by FengShuiGod (1492 posts) -

@Toxeia said:

@Jrinswand: Maybe he means that competition is a driving force in the market, and competing with free is so difficult that their products should be amazing and easy to obtain legally for a reasonable price. If only it worked that way.

So basically Steam, Netflix, Amazon ect.?

#33 Posted by development (2426 posts) -

@Stete said:

Yeah, best of luck to them in successfully implementing a system like that. I'm sure that measures like this won't put the blame on innocent people who have no idea what p2p is just because someone in their neighborhood downloaded an episode of Dexter, nor will the nefarious pirates find a way around it. No sir.

#34 Posted by NTM (7476 posts) -

"I didn't know it was illegal. I swear!"

#35 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

Godfuck, now im going to have to buy my luner porn.

#36 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

Makes sense. The quality of their service has clearly reached a plateau, and focusing on this bollocks is clearly a better option than say, providing me with a half-decent uninterrupted service.

#37 Edited by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@BigBoss1911 said:

Peerblock.

Nope. It's your ISP any Peerblock or VPN still has to pass through your ISP.

Technically, yes, but VPN proxy services actually do work at masking one's activity--the better ones do at least, but they're all paid services anyway, so it kind of defeats the purpose of pirating in the first place.

I've already gotten two "Notice of Claim of Copyright Infringement" emails from Verizon, both of which were for HBO content, which is literally the only thing I pirate outright. It's a really messed up situation because I kicked the TV habit a good couple years ago now, 1. because I'm just not going to pay $100+ per month for cable to watch maybe 3 or 4 shows, and 2. everything I do want to watch is available for purchase individually, which I take advantage of, except, of course, the big one: HBO. I would gladly pay a monthly fee or some reasonable price per episode for HBO content, and wish they'd just copy/paste the new HBO Nordic service here in the US, but because of their ludicrous ties to providers, they won't do it, and I'm forced to pirate something that I'd gladly pay for. It's fucked up, and the growing pains of the first truly new form of content distribution in over 50 years are increasingly evident.

#38 Posted by GrantHeaslip (1644 posts) -

The one thing I'd worry about here if I were American is that I do pirate 2 classes of things: TV shows as they air (before they're available on DVD), and stuff that's just impossible to buy in a reasonable fashion, like Japan-only releases of game soundtracks. There's really no way of differentiating me pirating episodes of Game of Thrones (since I don't have cable and have no option for legally watching it) then buying the DVD when it comes out, and simply pirating it and never getting the DVD. I do generally believe that piracy is wrong, and I'm clearly not who this system is designed to punish, but for the perspective of this software, I'm just another pirate.

#39 Posted by jozzy (2042 posts) -

@PillClinton said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@BigBoss1911 said:

Peerblock.

Nope. It's your ISP any Peerblock or VPN still has to pass through your ISP.

Technically, yes, but VPN proxy services actually do work at masking one's activity--the better ones do at least, but they're all paid services anyway, so it kind of defeats the purpose of pirating in the first place.

I've already gotten two "Notice of Claim of Copyright Infringement" emails from Verizon, both of which were for HBO content, which is literally the only thing I pirate outright. It's a really messed up situation because I kicked the TV habit a good couple years ago now, 1. because I'm just not going to pay $100+ per month for cable to watch maybe 3 or 4 shows, and 2. everything I do want to watch is available for purchase individually, which I take advantage of, except, of course, the big one: HBO. I would gladly pay a monthly fee or some reasonable price per episode for HBO content, and wish they'd just copy/paste the new HBO Nordic service here in the US, but because of their ludicrous ties to providers, they won't do it, and I'm forced to pirate something that I'd gladly pay for. It's fucked up, and the growing pains of the first truly new form of content distribution in over 50 years are increasingly evident.

I understand your point, but then you screw it up by using the word "forced". Nobody is forcing you to watch HBO. And you can actually buy HBO shows on itunes, so buy it there.

#40 Posted by Insectecutor (1197 posts) -

Great so now you guys have a good test of whether your ISP can determine what you're doing. Before this piracy was a risk because you didn't know if you were gonna get caught or not, now it isn't because you immediately know when they see you doing it and can try other methods until the warnings stop appearing.

Jesus. I'm in the UK and I don't rip stuff off, so this doesn't apply to me but the innocent have nothing to fear argument is piss poor.

#41 Posted by crusader8463 (14423 posts) -

Finally clicked the link and see that this is just for US ISP. Yay for not being in the US!

#42 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

This is retarded, there is no way they are going to be able to detect it with any reasonable amount of accuracy. I can think of multiple ways around it off the top of my head. Not that I'll do those things, but still.

#43 Posted by Jazzycola (662 posts) -

Last time I got an email for downloading copyrighted material was like 2004. It was over a Eddie Murphy HBO stand-up. I think they saved me some time. I do however get emails every month saying my gigs downloaded is 10 to 15 times as much as their normal user (mainly steam). My ISP just throttles my internet whenever any P2P download is happening. I don't really know how they can distinguish from a non-copyrighted P2P vs a copyrighted download which is kind of worrying. The Old Republic, WoW, and any other MMO usually has the default download option be P2P which makes me wonder if that'll get flagged for copyrighted download(since it technically is copyrighted material).

#44 Edited by Chop (1999 posts) -

Whatever.

Just more sensational bullshit to try and scare naive pirates. Nothing will come of this; continue to pirate away if you really want to.

#45 Posted by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

@jozzy said:

@PillClinton said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@BigBoss1911 said:

Peerblock.

Nope. It's your ISP any Peerblock or VPN still has to pass through your ISP.

Technically, yes, but VPN proxy services actually do work at masking one's activity--the better ones do at least, but they're all paid services anyway, so it kind of defeats the purpose of pirating in the first place.

I've already gotten two "Notice of Claim of Copyright Infringement" emails from Verizon, both of which were for HBO content, which is literally the only thing I pirate outright. It's a really messed up situation because I kicked the TV habit a good couple years ago now, 1. because I'm just not going to pay $100+ per month for cable to watch maybe 3 or 4 shows, and 2. everything I do want to watch is available for purchase individually, which I take advantage of, except, of course, the big one: HBO. I would gladly pay a monthly fee or some reasonable price per episode for HBO content, and wish they'd just copy/paste the new HBO Nordic service here in the US, but because of their ludicrous ties to providers, they won't do it, and I'm forced to pirate something that I'd gladly pay for. It's fucked up, and the growing pains of the first truly new form of content distribution in over 50 years are increasingly evident.

I understand your point, but then you screw it up by using the word "forced". Nobody is forcing you to watch HBO. And you can actually buy HBO shows on itunes, so buy it there.

Nice, way to get hung up on semantics. Actually, you're wrong, but admittedly that's probably my fault because I could've been more clear about my own personal circumstances, which is the fact that I consume exactly 1 HBO show, Real Time with Bill Maher (I was honestly a bit hesitant to even mention that, as I've received enough flak for liking that show on these very forums in the past). Real Time is extremely topical and time-sensitive, and it's not even close to up to date on iTunes (with the exception of a gimped audio version). So, yes, while not 'forced,' I have to pirate in order to watch the video of that one show, even though I'd happily pay for it. It's not liking I'm asking a lot, either. What I want is actually happening in Scandinavia.

#46 Posted by Subjugation (4724 posts) -

Tons of legitimate systems use P2P and torrents. The most immediate example I can think of is the Blizzard downloader. How will they differentiate from things like that and actual piracy?

#47 Edited by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

@Subjugation said:

Tons of legitimate systems use P2P and torrents. The most immediate example I can think of is the Blizzard downloader. How will they differentiate from things like that and actual piracy?

As far as I know, it's the actual copyright holders doing the work. They hire firms of "trackers," who monitor what IP addresses are DLing and ULing their content. The copyright holders then send a claim of copyright infringement by your IP address to your ISP, who then sends you a whiny email. Blizzard won't have trackers for their legitimate P2P stuff.

#48 Posted by benpicko (2010 posts) -

My ISP isn't listed so I'm fine

#49 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

Then there will be a story about them not being able to prove anything and then sued in a class action lawsuit and that will be the end of that crap.

#50 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@PillClinton: It sucks that you have to pay for a decent round table format program, with intelligent people and topics worth discussing. Why isn't Bill Maher on Youtube and practice what he preaches.