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#51 Posted by EarlessShrimp (1631 posts) -

Why, I have half a mind to write a petition to petition petitions.

As it's been stated before, how exactly is this Madden's fault for using the name of an actual team? It's not really sticking it to the man. You may as well make a petition to have the actual team change their actual name (which I'm sure there are plenty of already).

#52 Posted by quirkwood (183 posts) -

My first reaction to this was, "Oh come on man! It's just a name."

and then I thought, "Oh that's right, white privilege".

#53 Edited by alternate (2687 posts) -

They should probably change the name but punishing licenced products is just dumb.

#54 Posted by nasp (202 posts) -

this whole thing has been dumb from the very start.all these years no problem and outta nowhere now its a big deal.the name shouldnt be changed and this isnt even worth talking about.

#55 Posted by Brendan (7696 posts) -

@narujoe93: Why wouldn't he be snippy, several people are coming in the thread just to laugh at him and tell him he's stupid.

#56 Edited by forkboy (1117 posts) -

Why, I have half a mind to write a petition to petition petitions.

As it's been stated before, how exactly is this Madden's fault for using the name of an actual team? It's not really sticking it to the man. You may as well make a petition to have the actual team change their actual name (which I'm sure there are plenty of already).

Putting pressure on commercial partners of people who won't stop doing bad things is a traditional tactic. For example many people refuse to buy products from Israel because of that state's building up of Apartheid & the appalling treatment of Palestinians which tragically ends up increasing radicalism and thus violence. The companies in Israel that are, for example, selling and exporting fruit, aren't responsible for the actions of the Israeli government. A similar tactic was employed reasonably successfully with South Africa in the 1980s. Yes, comparing the Redskins name to Apartheid is hyperbolic but then hey, that's intentional.

#57 Posted by Anund (876 posts) -

At first I thought this was a joke, then I got sad.

#58 Posted by EarlessShrimp (1631 posts) -

@forkboy: Yeah but that seems like a bit of a poor analogy? So, by putting pressure on EA, they're gonna force the NFL to have them change the team name because they sold a slightly smaller number of games (maaaaaybe) than they might have? Maybe the analogy would make more sense if it was refusing to buy Redskins licensed products, for example jerseys or coffee mugs, altogether? I dunno, maybe I'm looking at the analogy wrong

#60 Edited by EthanielRain (774 posts) -

It blows my mind that they're still called the Redskins. If their name was a racial slur for any other ethnicity, it would've been changed long ago.

Online
#61 Posted by Fattony12000 (7072 posts) -

Dial M for Madden.

#62 Posted by forkboy (1117 posts) -

@forkboy: Yeah but that seems like a bit of a poor analogy? So, by putting pressure on EA, they're gonna force the NFL to have them change the team name because they sold a slightly smaller number of games (maaaaaybe) than they might have? Maybe the analogy would make more sense if it was refusing to buy Redskins licensed products, for example jerseys or coffee mugs, altogether? I dunno, maybe I'm looking at the analogy wrong

Well I would assume (hope) that these people were already boycotting Redskins licensed products.

#63 Posted by Cleric22 (85 posts) -

Hey I'm from D.C.!

Seriously though, just change the mascot to a Redskin potato and be done with it. Keep the classic "R" symbol and the fight song.

#64 Edited by rethla (425 posts) -
@earlessshrimp said:

@forkboy: Yeah but that seems like a bit of a poor analogy? So, by putting pressure on EA, they're gonna force the NFL to have them change the team name because they sold a slightly smaller number of games (maaaaaybe) than they might have? Maybe the analogy would make more sense if it was refusing to buy Redskins licensed products, for example jerseys or coffee mugs, altogether? I dunno, maybe I'm looking at the analogy wrong

Madden NFL 15 is an Redskins licensed product... still i think this petition is just a farce. If you want to show your oppinion about racism then start by taking it seriously.

#65 Posted by Nightriff (4915 posts) -

@forkboy said:

@nightriff said:

You do realize that the name will probably be changed within a few years already because of the backlash so this isn't necessary nor will it advance the process in any way. It's just a big waste of time (even my minute).

And I personally don't care if it changes or not, sadly it will be changed to something stupid like it always is, i.e. Washington Bullets to the Wizards

You realise if people don't pressurise the NFL, the Redskins themselves and the NFL's commercial partners there will be no backlash? Like you don't have the backlash without wasting that minute to create the backlash. That's the whole bloody point.

This isn't going to pressure the NFL, they are already under pressure from groups the boycott/picket the redskins games all across the country. This isn't going to do anything to progress the situation at hand, just punish EA as others have pointed out in the thread.

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#67 Posted by EarlessShrimp (1631 posts) -

@rethla: But so are all the other teams? So I mean... I guess they should be punished too? On the one hand you could say they deserve to be at all because they allowed it to go on, but at the same time you could easily say it's not their team so it's not their problem. It's so hard to have an opinion on things!

#68 Edited by Coke (25 posts) -

@quirkwood said:

My first reaction to this was, "Oh come on man! It's just a name."

and then I thought, "Oh that's right, white privilege".

Please be satire.

#69 Posted by oldenglishC (922 posts) -

It's hard to articulate how I feel about this without it descending into a torrent of curses and racial slurs to make a point about how really bad Redskins is as a name, but fuck it. Nobody gives a shit to begin with. Native issues never see the light of day because my people aren't even a big enough population to support a minority voice in the States. Considering genocide, regional schooling, Andrew Jackson, and more I suppose Americans think that we should just count ourselves lucky we lasted this long. So long as the Eye of Sauron is pointed at the Mexicans we'll probably scrape by for another 30 years before we're bred out of humanity entirely.

Yeah, it's that bad. But whatever. Apparently asking to face the end of your entire culture within your lifetime without the indignity of looking at shit like "The Redskins" or that stupid fucking Indian head in Cleveland is a price too steep. The name of a team or the image of a mascot is far more important than that.

/rant

I'm just going to quote this, since it's the post that sums up this whole situation the best. It's crazy that some people don't realize how shitty that team name is.

#70 Posted by forkboy (1117 posts) -

@forkboy said:

@nightriff said:

You do realize that the name will probably be changed within a few years already because of the backlash so this isn't necessary nor will it advance the process in any way. It's just a big waste of time (even my minute).

And I personally don't care if it changes or not, sadly it will be changed to something stupid like it always is, i.e. Washington Bullets to the Wizards

You realise if people don't pressurise the NFL, the Redskins themselves and the NFL's commercial partners there will be no backlash? Like you don't have the backlash without wasting that minute to create the backlash. That's the whole bloody point.

This isn't going to pressure the NFL, they are already under pressure from groups the boycott/picket the redskins games all across the country. This isn't going to do anything to progress the situation at hand, just punish EA as others have pointed out in the thread.

No, this won't pressure the NFL. It could however pressure one of the NFL's commercial partners. If EA sell less games or have pressure put on their shareholders over the content of a game then it is possible (if unlikely) that EA will pressure the license holder to change the thing that has clearly enraged people. So no, boycotting Madden is no more unfair to EA than boycotting Redskins merchandise is unfair to Nike. And if you really felt guilty about it buy Dragon Age 2 to make up for it or something.

#71 Posted by Athadam (673 posts) -

People seem to be misunderstanding the point that the OP is trying to make, he's not expecting the petition to do anything - rather just spark up awareness and discussion around this issue, and he's done exactly that by posting this thread here.

Furthermore, I think the OP recognizes that since the NFL is hesitant to change the team name, a good way to get the public to pressure the NFL to change the name is if a trusted third-party rating board (ESRB) deemed the name to be considered offensive. He's also doing this in a logical framework that argues that if the n-word constitutes an M-rating in other games, why doesn't the R-word (which to some is as equally offensive) get the same treatment?

By putting this moral responsibility on both Madden and ESRB, it creates more awareness and causes greater pressure for the NFL team to change its name.

#72 Posted by mracoon (4955 posts) -

You don't have to agree with OP but just saying 'petitions are dumb' is not a constructive comment.

Moderator
#73 Posted by wewantsthering (1552 posts) -

As someone who has Cherokee, Chickasaw, and Choctaw NA heritage, I understand why that term would be offensive. This is just a silly way to go about trying to get a sports team to change their name though.

#74 Posted by dudeglove (7688 posts) -

There are several reasons why this makes no sense.

Chiefly because Madden/EA aren't on the board of whatever the NFL team naming commission thing is.

OP, your anger is noble and justified, but it's misdirected. Your target here is the NFL, not a games company that has its (probably) greasy mitts on a license to produce games featuring the intellectual property of the NFL.

#75 Posted by slyspider (1156 posts) -

I think most rational people agree that the name should be changed, so sign the petition to the NFL or the team management. Madden has nothing to do with that

#76 Posted by Video_Game_King (36058 posts) -

@video_game_king said:

There are several reasons why this makes no sense.

Chiefly because Madden/EA aren't on the board of whatever the NFL team naming commission thing is.

Plus the ESRB doesn't regulate for any racial content whatsoever.

#77 Posted by forkboy (1117 posts) -

@video_game_king said:

There are several reasons why this makes no sense.

Chiefly because Madden/EA aren't on the board of whatever the NFL team naming commission thing is.

OP, your anger is noble and justified, but it's misdirected. Your target here is the NFL, not a games company that has its (probably) greasy mitts on a license to produce games featuring the intellectual property of the NFL.

Putting pressure on commercial partners of shady companies is hardly a new tactic. Now whether or not the pressure this will put on EA will make any difference is obviously debatable, but this idea that you should only protest the thing you have a problem with and not anybody related to them seems to be missing a hundred plus years of protesting shitty things.

#78 Posted by OurSin_360 (834 posts) -

What exactly would this do the NFL? The majority of their revenue is not from a video game franchise

#79 Edited by forkboy (1117 posts) -

@oursin_360 said:

What exactly would this do the NFL? The majority of their revenue is not from a video game franchise

You realise this isn't the only angle of protest against the whole Redskins organisation, right? I mean if it was it'd be fucking stupid and pointless. But it isn't.

#80 Posted by JoshyLee (176 posts) -

Why isn't Patrick writing about this?

#81 Posted by RonGalaxy (2879 posts) -

@brendan: I wasn't though. Just go through the thread and look at the things with my username. I thought I was pretty level headed with my original criticism until they responded to me. Then I didn't say anything but 'good luck with that'.

#82 Edited by spraynardtatum (2613 posts) -

I think they should keep the name. All they have to do is make the mascot/logo a person with sunburn and they'd be in the clear.

#83 Edited by dudeglove (7688 posts) -

@forkboy said:

@dudeglove said:

@video_game_king said:

There are several reasons why this makes no sense.

Chiefly because Madden/EA aren't on the board of whatever the NFL team naming commission thing is.

OP, your anger is noble and justified, but it's misdirected. Your target here is the NFL, not a games company that has its (probably) greasy mitts on a license to produce games featuring the intellectual property of the NFL.

Putting pressure on commercial partners of shady companies is hardly a new tactic. Now whether or not the pressure this will put on EA will make any difference is obviously debatable, but this idea that you should only protest the thing you have a problem with and not anybody related to them seems to be missing a hundred plus years of protesting shitty things.

I don't deny the tactic isn't viable, but compared to other commercial partners of the NFL i.e. the ones pumping out other merchandise (such as clothing, branded balls, best of DVDs, whatever other crap football fans go nuts over etc.), games are really quite inferior.

But honestly who knows? Maybe small-scale naming and shaming will actually have more of an effect than flailing at the imposing monolith of NFL. I just think there's too many degrees of separation here to even achieve that.

#84 Edited by Zevvion (1830 posts) -

This doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Having a racial slur in a game doesn't warrant it to be rated M. Or well... I think not. I don't live in the US, I'm not sure how your rating system works. It always eluded me to be honest. Chopping someones head off with a chainsaw is for Teens, but seeing a handjob is Adult Only. I was always a little confused about the priority.

#85 Posted by Generic_username (591 posts) -

Finally, a petition I can sign that will make a difference.

The best first post possible.

#86 Posted by bartok (2430 posts) -

While I agree that name is offensive I also find online petitions offensive.

#87 Posted by AjayRaz (12418 posts) -

@lordandrew said:

Bring back Blitz: The League.

hell yeah

#88 Posted by BlastProcessing (912 posts) -

Well if this isn't an utter waste of time...

#89 Posted by Capum15 (4819 posts) -

...huh.

Never knew that was a racial slur.

Learn something new every day.

#90 Posted by oompaville (29 posts) -

I personally don't even like the name. I think it is cringe worthy, racist or not. Now the Webster University Gorloks, that's a name I can get behind!

#91 Posted by Cybertification (198 posts) -

Isn't this whole controversy treating native Americans like fucking children? The name is stupid, but why does that matter? Even if it is racist, who is going to get harmed by it? If we are going to treat everyone equal we should not treat one group of people as though they are babies, this appears to mostly be people who are offended on native Americans behalf. If we made an American football team that was called the whiteskins, would that be a problem, or would we assume that people can deal with this type of stuff? Because people can, no matter what skin colour they have.

#92 Posted by Apparatus_Unearth (3111 posts) -

I think the Redskins are too far, but Chief Wahoo? Come on, that's just a caricature. Is the Diamondbacks Luchador offensive then?

#93 Posted by Apparatus_Unearth (3111 posts) -

Isn't this whole controversy treating native Americans like fucking children? The name is stupid, but why does that matter? Even if it is racist, who is going to get harmed by it? If we are going to treat everyone equal we should not treat one group of people as though they are babies, this appears to mostly be people who are offended on native Americans behalf. If we made an American football team that was called the whiteskins, would that be a problem, or would we assume that people can deal with this type of stuff? Because people can, no matter what skin colour they have.

Thanks for having the balls to make a controversial point. :)

#94 Posted by Splodge (1070 posts) -

If you can show me all the signatures you have collected from Native Americans I will sign it. Other than that, it seems like this is a classic case of surrogate offense.

#95 Posted by Jimbo (9775 posts) -

Newsflash, America: all of your sports team names sound dumb. Change it to Washington National Football Team or something and set a good example.

#96 Edited by Max_Cherry (1131 posts) -

Why rate it M? Most parents are completely oblivious to video game ratings or even what video games are. If your lucky then maybe they played pong once. Otherwise, they have no idea what they are really buying for their kids. A better petition would be to have Madden take the word "redskins" out of the game.

#97 Edited by Jay_Ray (1070 posts) -

Edit: The shocking thing to me is how many people do not realize how racist/insensitive they are.

#98 Posted by Cybertification (198 posts) -

@jay_ray While I do agree that actually dressing up in black face is stupid as all hell, isn't someone wearing a sombrero just lightly poking fun? how is it harmfull? Here in sweden, we dance around a penis singing about frogs every year, who wouldn't make fun of that!? I do know that Swedish people are generally white, but if everyone is equal then everyone should be made fun of.

Now if someone is actually trying to trick another person in to thinking that they are mexican, that's a different story entirely...

#99 Posted by Jay_Ray (1070 posts) -

@jay_ray While I do agree that actually dressing up in black face is stupid as all hell, isn't someone wearing a sombrero just lightly poking fun? how is it harmfull? Here in sweden, we dance around a penis singing about frogs every year, who wouldn't make fun of that!? I do know that Swedish people are generally white, but if everyone is equal then everyone should be made fun of.

Now if someone is actually trying to trick another person in to thinking that they are mexican, that's a different story entirely...

Unfortunately not everyone/culture is equal in terms of history, oppression, and historical racism. And for a lot of racism we are not even a generation removed from the use of these stereotypes to undermine a culture.

#100 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3571 posts) -

@jay_ray While I do agree that actually dressing up in black face is stupid as all hell, isn't someone wearing a sombrero just lightly poking fun? how is it harmfull? Here in sweden, we dance around a penis singing about frogs every year, who wouldn't make fun of that!? I do know that Swedish people are generally white, but if everyone is equal then everyone should be made fun of.

Now if someone is actually trying to trick another person in to thinking that they are mexican, that's a different story entirely...

It's subjective, which is a word and concept that overly politically correct people like to pretend doesn't exist. It's just all "that IS racist" and "that IS sexist," as if their opinion is objective truth.

With that said, I do PERSONALLY think they should probably rename the Redskins team. Then again, I'm biased, because I'm not a fan of the team and I don't care about sports. I also think there are way too many "Indian" focused sports teams anyhow.

That video was ridiculous, though. The idea that white people wearing sombreros and drinking on a Mexican holiday is even remotely close to white people dressing up like gangsta rappers and holding watermelons on MLK day is insane.