#1 Posted by Jace (1092 posts) -

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03/collier-judge-upholds-stand-your-ground-defense-ca/?partner=popular

NAPLES — A 15-year-old who fatally stabbed his school mate will no longer face criminal prosecution.

A judge’s ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law. The State Attorney’s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling.

#2 Posted by Marz (5643 posts) -

If he was being attacked and he shanked him to get away, no foul.

#3 Edited by Jace (1092 posts) -

This is supposed to be edgy. You need to be more edgy about it.

#4 Posted by Little_Socrates (5675 posts) -

I think this is a bit strange as a ruling. I like the law, but there is such a thing as excessive defensive force. Bully hits kid in back of head after series of bullying encounters and threats, kid stabs bully, kid stabs bully again, kid stabs bully a total of twelve times, bully dies. Similar cases have been made against gun owners who take down an attacker/burglar with one shot and then proceed to fire again. I'm not sure why this is any different.

#5 Posted by TheHT (10906 posts) -

Sucks that the kid was a bully. He paid the ultimate price for his assholery.

#6 Posted by drag (1223 posts) -

@Jace said:

This is supposed to be edgy. You need to be more edgy about it.

how's this:

If he was being attacked and he shanked him to get away, no foul yo

?

#7 Posted by Hailinel (23928 posts) -

If it was self-defense, then good for him.

Online
#8 Posted by niko555 (118 posts) -

These situations you never actually know how it really went down.

If it was self defense then all is good.

But if it wasnt......

and thats all the discussion you need for these kinda news

Thats all there is to it

#9 Posted by Swoxx (2988 posts) -

Paul Christoforo's kid got stabbed you say?

#10 Posted by AlexW00d (6188 posts) -

Well I can see what's up if he did him once, but 12 times? That kid needs punishment.

#11 Posted by wewantsthering (1552 posts) -

@AlexW00d said:

Well I can see what's up if he did him once, but 12 times? That kid needs punishment.

#12 Posted by artgarcrunkle (970 posts) -

You don't stab someone twelve times in self-defense.

#13 Posted by Imsorrymsjackson (855 posts) -

How terrible for this poor kid. He has to live every day in the knowledge he lost control at a bully and killed him. Fuck the bully, better off dead but the kid will never get over it.

#14 Posted by JackSukeru (5906 posts) -

That seemed like it sucked for everyone involved. For the bully who died, for the kid that became a murderer and for both their families.

Hopefully the kid will make good use of the time he won't have to spend in jail/whateverelse now.

#15 Posted by dudeglove (7688 posts) -

@Jace: Your thread title is disingenuous. Jorge Saavedra didn't set out with the motive of "killing" anyone - bully or otherwise - and the incident was duly ruled as second degree murder. He had every right to defend himself. Jorge was assaulted first, and Dylan Nuno appeared to not understand the fact that repeatedly bullying someone will eventually provoke a reaction. In this case it was being stabbed twelve times with a shitty pocket knife.

#16 Posted by TehFlan (1944 posts) -

Did the kid go on to save the world from the Buggers?

#17 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

If he would have invested points into his Critical Damage perk, all he would've needed was one stab.

#18 Posted by Everyones_A_Critic (6288 posts) -

The thing that pisses me off about stories like these is that the popular bully kids are always immortalized as heroes and the victim is vilified as a psychopathic weirdo who deserves to die. The kid was 14, he had been fucked with before, and so of course he went apeshit when things finally hit the fan. I'm not saying he didn't overreact by stabbing him twelve times, but I see why he stabbed the kid twelve times. Bullying typically builds and builds and builds until the victim "snaps" and goes off on them for something that might be considered mild or undeserving of the reaction. Honestly though, the bully in that situation would be the type to wrap his parent's Monte Carlo around a tree drunk anyway his senior year, so he was bound to be immortalized for dying over stupid shit anyway.

#19 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

Badass!

#20 Edited by NMC2008 (1231 posts) -

So if someone comes up to me on the street unarmed and attacks me, can I then pull out my gun and shoot that person? Is that how this works? I have this feeling I would be in serious trouble if I did that.

#21 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2224 posts) -

The kid is now going to be messed up for the rest of his life because of the bully.

In the end, the bully basically won.

#22 Posted by RE_Player1 (7550 posts) -

Good.

#23 Posted by CrimsonNoir (399 posts) -

Not saying the bully deserved to die, but he did follow the kid off the bus stop and punched him in the back of his head.

#24 Posted by UltorOscariot (171 posts) -

Bullies, stay out of Florida. I do find these laws fascinating. I like the idea that you have no obligation to flee your home for the purpose of self defense because some fool has decided to help themself to your property or has intent to harm you, but I don't think I've seen the law interpreted in this way before.

#25 Posted by Moreau_MD (402 posts) -

@Everyones_A_Critic said:

The thing that pisses me off about stories like these is that the popular bully kids are always immortalized as heroes and the victim is vilified as a psychopathic weirdo who deserves to die. The kid was 14, he had been fucked with before, and so of course he went apeshit when things finally hit the fan. I'm not saying he didn't overreact by stabbing him twelve times, but I see why he stabbed the kid twelve times. Bullying typically builds and builds and builds until the victim "snaps" and goes off on them for something that might be considered mild or undeserving of the reaction. Honestly though, the bully in that situation would be the type to wrap his parent's Monte Carlo around a tree drunk anyway his senior year, so he was bound to be immortalized for dying over stupid shit anyway.

this.

#26 Posted by Demoskinos (14575 posts) -

Theres this one move where you stab them shank style real quick like Uh,Uh,Uh,Uh,Uh.... ~ Ryan Davis

#27 Posted by CptChiken (1987 posts) -
@artgarcrunkle said:

You don't stab someone twelve times in self-defense.

word.
#28 Posted by Owlhead (152 posts) -

I'm just gonna come out and say that i'm glad the prick died

there

People are more than capable of behaving civil in public, and bullies know damn well they they're the scum of the earth. Maybe this ruling will cause them to sit back and realize that actions have consequences.

No, of course not, but once can hope....

#29 Posted by GrandMarshal (387 posts) -

lol

#30 Posted by EuanDewar (4775 posts) -

@dudeglove said:

@Jace: Your thread title is disingenuous. Jorge Saavedra didn't set out with the motive of "killing" anyone - bully or otherwise - and the incident was duly ruled as second degree murder. He had every right to defend himself. Jorge was assaulted first, and Dylan Nuno appeared to not understand the fact that repeatedly bullying someone will eventually provoke a reaction. In this case it was being stabbed twelve times with a shitty pocket knife.

Fuckin' flashbacks.

#31 Edited by Moreau_MD (402 posts) -

@Owlhead said:

I'm just gonna come out and say that i'm glad the prick died

there

People are more than capable of behaving civil in public, and bullies know damn well they they're the scum of the earth. Maybe this ruling will cause them to sit back and realize that actions have consequences.

No, of course not, but once can hope....

Also this. You could just tell from the photo that the bully was your classic self obsessed, thinks his going to be something, asshole. And if you look at the comments his family and friends have left you can see why- the mother can't spell for shit, the brother has this weird fantasy about him 'bein a soldier in God's army' (?!?!) and the other friends are even now continuing to bully the poor kid who finally snapped- in an obituary of the bully for Christ-sake. Good to know this prick is food for the worms now, because if the article has the facts straight, he and all others like him deserve no less.

#32 Posted by Sjupp (1910 posts) -

@Swoxx said:

Paul Christoforo's kid got stabbed you say?

Self Defense Stratagy

#33 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

12 fucking times?! This kid is probably way worse than the bully, he's going to grow up all kinds of messed up.

#34 Posted by Warchief (653 posts) -
#35 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -

@Everyones_A_Critic said:

The thing that pisses me off about stories like these is that the popular bully kids are always immortalized as heroes and the victim is vilified as a psychopathic weirdo who deserves to die. The kid was 14, he had been fucked with before, and so of course he went apeshit when things finally hit the fan. I'm not saying he didn't overreact by stabbing him twelve times, but I see why he stabbed the kid twelve times. Bullying typically builds and builds and builds until the victim "snaps" and goes off on them for something that might be considered mild or undeserving of the reaction. Honestly though, the bully in that situation would be the type to wrap his parent's Monte Carlo around a tree drunk anyway his senior year, so he was bound to be immortalized for dying over stupid shit anyway.

Yeah, I was about to post something similar. 12 times seems excessive, but bully's suck, and he probably just snapped.

I'm not saying that makes it right of course, but I can understand what might have happened if the kids being continually tormented.

#36 Posted by Owlhead (152 posts) -

@Sjupp said:

@Swoxx said:

Paul Christoforo's kid got stabbed you say?

Self Defense Stratagy

Dont you mean Self Defense Deep Sea?

#37 Posted by Arker101 (1474 posts) -

It's terribly sad that it got to that point. The bully was actively hunting the kid down and beating him, and it sounds like that happened more then once. I'm not going to say that the bully got what was coming to him, because that would be insane. Anyone dying is a terrible thing, but the victim of the bullying was not getting help and now he's even more traumatized because he stood up for himself and took things too far, just like the bully was doing.

I wish both of them could have had counseling before this happened.

#38 Posted by Vexxan (4616 posts) -

Self-defense, y'all.  
 
Bullies are assholes but being killed is kinda harsh. 

#39 Posted by Hailinel (23928 posts) -
@SomeDeliCook

The kid is now going to be messed up for the rest of his life because of the bully.

In the end, the bully basically won.

But he's also dead. If he won, his victory is hollow.
Online
#40 Posted by Niall_Sg1 (362 posts) -

The fact he got off the bus a couple stops earlier to avoid confrontation speaks volumes to me. He tried to avoid a fight, but they gave him no choice. Cowards backed this guy into a corner so he came out fighting. Good for him.

#41 Posted by Vade (393 posts) -

A knife to a fistfight? No wonder he was bullied.

#42 Posted by Lotus (204 posts) -

@wewantsthering said:

@AlexW00d said:

Well I can see what's up if he did him once, but 12 times? That kid needs punishment.

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda.

#43 Posted by Legxend (124 posts) -

Most likely the reasoning why he stabbed him so many times, was a rush of emotion that was built up from the bullying and torment he endured. Some people can only take so much and when they go over the edge it all comes out, similar things happen in domestic abuse cases where someones wife will be pushed to the limit and she acts out killing him.

This is a good rulling, it shows kids should stand up for themselves, anyone that has witnessed bullying in school or other places knows you have to stand up for yourself or these bullies will walk all over you.

#44 Posted by dudeglove (7688 posts) -

@CptChiken said:

@artgarcrunkle said:

You don't stab someone twelve times in self-defense.

word.

You might if a group of people hounded you off a bus, not to mention all of them being led by someone who had been taunting you repeatedly. If that's not intimidation and reason to fear for your life, then I guess that makes you King Solomon or Abe Lincoln or something. Congrats on being the pinnacle of manhood and fortitude in the face of danger; may we all learn from you both.

#45 Posted by VisariLoyalist (2990 posts) -

Sigh I don't understand man the police need to make it more clear that they are willing to help people with these situations rather than them becoming horribly desperate like this, sad story all around.

#46 Posted by NMC2008 (1231 posts) -

Blame his parent for not teaching him self defense. -_- Kids used to fight it out in my day, someone hits me, I hit em back, that's called a fight, you can only be bullied if you allow yourself to be bullied, kids nowadays are pussies because their parent raised them as such.

#47 Edited by Cretaceous_Bob (505 posts) -

@Little_Socrates said:

I think this is a bit strange as a ruling. I like the law, but there is such a thing as excessive defensive force. Bully hits kid in back of head after series of bullying encounters and threats, kid stabs bully, kid stabs bully again, kid stabs bully a total of twelve times, bully dies. Similar cases have been made against gun owners who take down an attacker/burglar with one shot and then proceed to fire again. I'm not sure why this is any different.

No. I will never say that anyone being subjected to unnecessary, wanton, cruel violence acted "excessively" in defense of themselves.

The gun owners example is more calculated and deliberate, but I still support the gun owners in many instances.

I value the lives of the innocent and the good, not the lives of those who would use force to batter, coerce, and harm the lives of the aforementioned.

Suppose it had just been one stab that killed him. Is that okay? What are you really trying to do by saying that 12 stabs should be punished? We, as a nation, should really crack down on the 30 second defensive reaction an individual has in a threatening situation that they were forced into? Who are you protecting here?

#48 Posted by gamefreak9 (2344 posts) -

@BraveToaster said:

If he would have invested points into his Critical Damage perk, all he would've needed was one stab.

Critical damage perk doesn't raise the % chance of doing a critical strike... fool.

#49 Posted by CptChiken (1987 posts) -
@dudeglove said:

@CptChiken said:

@artgarcrunkle said:

You don't stab someone twelve times in self-defense.

word.

You might if a group of people hounded you off a bus, not to mention all of them being led by someone who had been taunting you repeatedly. If that's not intimidation and reason to fear for your life, then I guess that makes you King Solomon or Abe Lincoln or something. Congrats on being the pinnacle of manhood and fortitude in the face of danger; may we all learn from you both.

Self defence is the use of reasonable force, to stab someone twelve times is extreme and goes beyond that. self defence would be once, because thats all he would have needed to get the kid off him and get away, twelve times shows anger and therefore intent to harm. Im not saying i wouldnt have done what he did, i cant know. What im saying is that he should have been given some sort of penalty because stabbing someone twelve times goes way beyond "self defence".
#50 Posted by Djratchet (668 posts) -

After reading the article, it seems that this kid fucked with this other kid one too many times, and got the appropriate reaction. It's a shame he had to die, but he got what he had coming to him, someone fighting back.