• 161 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Posted by GrantHeaslip (1644 posts) -

With the exception of Nintendo games, I didn't grow up with overtly Japanese media. I was certainly aware of it — and growing up one of the most Chinese cities in North America helped in that regard — but with the exception of a few games like Pokemon, Tales of Symphonia, and Viewtiful Joe, I didn't see it as relevant to me. I didn't play JRPGs, and I didn't so much as watch Dragon Ball Z.

As such, I passively accepted the idea of "anime" as a pejorative. I wasn't consciously perpetuating the stereotype, but I was very likely to hear the word "anime" in the context of a punchline and I'm sure that rubbed off.

At a time in which the "gaming community" is more concerned than ever with diversity and tolerance, anime and/or JRPGs fans are one of the few remaining groups one can pretty safely throw under the bus while still getting high-fives all around:

That last tweet really gets to the heart of the issue: a sense that anime fans are gross, sexually-perverted weirdos. This stereotype — like most stereotypes — comes from somewhere, but whereas most stereotypes are seen as the unfairly broad brushes they obviously are, "anime" is a widely-accepted word with which to dismiss a piece of media, its creators, and its fans.

To the degree that my tastes were influenced by these popular straw men, I resent that I spent the first 22 or so years of my life not giving most Japanese media a fair shake. My tastes have changed a lot since giving JRPGs, anime, and manga a fair shot, and I'm happier for it.

This brings me to Kill la Kill:

Kill la Kill

Kill la Kill is the story of a girl and her sentient school uniform fighting the fascist school council government of an artificial mountain city in future Tokyo Bay in order to avenge her father's death. I could elaborate about the surprisingly coherent plot and likeable characters, but this show moves so quickly and unexpectedly that almost any further explanation risks spoiling it. I will at least mention that this show has one of the most menacing and downright subversive secondary antagonists I can remember. If the show wasn't already great, this one character might have been able to carry it themselves.

I'm not sure I'd have been able to deal with Kill la Kill even a couple of years ago. It hasn't been that long since I was wringing my hands about the costume designs in Final Fantasy XIII, and I find it viscerally uncomfortable to go back and read myself trying to wrap my head around characters wearing short skirts. If that post wasn't so embarrassing in hindsight, I'd laugh about how quaint it feels in light of my unequivocal love of a show that — to pull no punches — has a close-up of a 17-year-old girl's labia in its intro:

Kill la Kill's sexuality is so overt that it arguably transcends fanservice and justifies itself as an inextricable part of what the show is. Without spoiling too much, this is a show in which revealing battle armour is scientifically justified and body shame is directly and meaningfully addressed. All of the main characters — female and male — end up spending a great deal of their time fully or nearly nude. A major male character spends half of his time on-screen posing ostentatiously as his clothing slides off his body and pink lights shoot out of his nipples and groin, and the leading antagonist cements her malicious nature in an unsettling scene in which she gropes her daughter. I'm not going to pretend that some of the sexuality isn't on some level pandering, but it's so over-the-top and indiscriminate that I tend to see it as more of a stylistic and humorous choice than one primarily intended to titillate. To put it another way: I think it would be a worse show without the sexuality; at the very least, something else would need to take its place.

It took me a few episodes to get on board the show's inherent flamboyance — and that's to some extent a result of the first few episodes leaning a bit harder into the bashful upskirt school of fanservice — but I got over my self-consciousness and realized the show was deliberately using (and mocking) that trope as a stepping stone to far-more-uninhibited ridiculousness.

And man does Kill la Kill know how to escalate. The third episode features a climactic-seeming fight in which the two main characters are hitting each other with such intensity that the cavernous walls behind them are blown apart by the shockwave, and most of the remaining twenty-one episodes substantially raise the stakes from there. No single step feels forced, but by the time the show is over the scope of the conflict has escalated to a degree that makes the beginning of the series seem positively quaint. Don't get me wrong: this is a pretty goofy and self-aware show, but it doesn't fall into the trap of escalating for cheap comedic effect without the substance to back it up.

Kill la Kill also oozes style. Every scene — hell, practically every shot — is lovingly crafted to look and sound as awesome as possible. I'm a particular fan of the character designs and voice performances, which are on point across the board. The director and artists have a sizable bag of tricks, and they know when (and how often) to break them out for maximum effect: 3D zooms, 4:3, split-screen staredowns, on-screen (and sometimes in-environment) text, static pans, disproportionate looming, rotoscoping, and other assorted techniques form an unconventional visual patchwork that manages to feel congruous. I'm not usually one to physically react to stuff, but I found myself with a dumb slack-jawed grin at least a couple of times per episode. This show might have the highest "fuck yeah!"-per-minute ratio of anything I've watched in my life.

Those aforementioned "fuck yeah" moments are punctuated with some badass musical themes. You always know some weighty shit is going down when Satsuki's theme kicks in; Ryuko's triumphant anthem almost always marks the climax of the episode. Later themes (BEWARE SPOILERS: [1], [2], [3]) are appropriately epic and/or sinister. Hiroyuki Sawano also composed Attack on Titan's awesome soundtrack, and I've just realized that he's also working on Xenoblade X(!).

I can't recall a show I've loved as consistently as Kill la Kill. It's obviously something I enjoy for very different reasons than other favourites like The Wire, The West Wing, or House of Cards, but I think I'd much sooner rewatch Kill la Kill than The Wire, and that's got to count for something. I suspect there are a lot of potential Kill la Kill fans held back by a misguided sense that they're somehow above watching anime, let alone a semi-fanservicey anime like this. I've been there, and while I absolutely empathize with the discomfort, I'm glad I crossed that arbitrary line.

#1 Edited by Humanity (9579 posts) -

This is kind of like someone saying how Miley Cyrus got them to love pop music. On one hand I'm happy for your newfound appreciation, but on the other I'm really sad you had to find it that way.

Online
#2 Edited by spraynardtatum (3199 posts) -

Kill la Kill is pretty freaking amazing.

I stand by you, internet person.

#3 Edited by believer258 (11984 posts) -

You should probably watch Gurren Lagann.

I watched the first episode of Kill La Kill and didn't watch anymore. I wasn't really in the mood for something that moved at a breakneck pace and I'm probably still not. I like quiet moments.

EDIT: Also, in the middle of all the Gurren Lagann and Cowboy Bebop recommendations, I'm going to tell you that you must watch Baccano. I've seen that anime several times and I always pick up on something new, and what I have already picked up on is still incredibly entertaining. It's basically what would happen if Tarantino wrote a screenplay about robbing trains and then told an anime studio to see how fucking nuts they could make the whole goddamn thing. And that's really not all there is to it, just watch it.

#4 Posted by spraynardtatum (3199 posts) -
@humanity said:

This is kind of like someone saying how Miley Cyrus got them to love pop music. On one hand I'm happy for your newfound appreciation, but on the other I'm really sad you had to find it that way.

Find it what way?

#5 Edited by xyzygy (10028 posts) -

I think anime is a genuinely great medium. Kill la Kill is excellent, just a really goofy, fun show aimed for older audiences. There is a lot of shit out there right now, most high school and ALL fan service stuff is pretty garbage I find.

Right now I'm really into One Piece (around episode 65, a really great show about friendship and adventure, it makes me feel like a kid watching it - in the best way possible) and Naruto Shippuden (caught up, it's a really great show), with a ton more on my list for when I am caught up in One Piece.

Also, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure might interest you. I haven't watched it fully yet but I have LOVED what I have seen.

Anime has such an ugly stigma attached to it and it's a shame. I tell people I watch anime with pride and I love their responses, haha.

#6 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

This is a series I have yet to see, but I keep hearing fantastic things about. I'll need to rectify this at some point.

#7 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1783 posts) -

I like anime, and I liked Gurren Laggan, but Kill la Kill was a total dud for me. My brain says it's because it had bad pacing; it was at eleven from the beginning and eventually the insanity got mundane and boring. Gurren Laggan built to the crazy and actually had quiet moments to breathe. But my gut says that it's because it reminded me too much of Re: Cutie Honey, which I did not care for very much.

I'm glad you enjoyed it though, and I'm glad it became relatively popular. I like Madoka and Attack on Titan just fine, but it was a huge bummer that the biggest animes of the last few years were all dark and gritty. Kill la Kill is at least vibrant and fun. Now if only more people cared about JoJo's...

#8 Edited by StarvingGamer (8370 posts) -

Yeah, people are going to dismiss Kill La Kill as "oh, anime" but it really does a fantastic job of highlighting and poking fun at most of the shounen anime tropes they are rolling their eyes at in the first place. It may seem a bit "cake and eat it too" to simultaneously have nonstop fanservice while simultaneously lampooning the notion of fanservice, but Kill La Kill does it in so many smart and subversive ways. It's good to know that knowledge about genre cliches are ubiquitous enough that a previously non-fan of anime was able to pick up on what Kill La Kill was putting down.

It's also one of the most beautifully animated shows out there so that helps. I'd also recommend Martian Successor Nadesico which is a bit older but does a pretty good job of deconstructing both the mecha genre and sci-fi in general.

#9 Posted by Prestige (104 posts) -

Yeah, definitely check out Gurren Lagann. It's made by the same guys who made Kill la Kill, but it's better.

#10 Edited by mikey87144 (1797 posts) -

Anime covers too much for someone to dismiss it as upskirt shots gross sexuality. So much so that I don't even bother defending it. It would be the equivalent of someone saying that video games are just about dudes shooting each other. There are waaaay to many games to even validate that criticism with an argument. If you want to remain ignorant then stay ignorant. I'm not going to be the one to try and prove otherwise.

Also I think Dan's statement was in jest. Saying wrestling is for cool people should have been the first sign.

#11 Posted by azrailx (428 posts) -

kill la kill will always be inferior, even though i have never seen it, to gurren lagann because of the WAAAY over the top fan service outfits

#12 Posted by Shortbreadtom (820 posts) -

In 2 months I went from only watching a couple DBZ episodes as a kid, to having completely digested Kill la Kill, Gurren Lagann and Attack on Titan. Those two months completely changed whatever preconceived notions I may have had about anime.

I am currently trying to get through JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, but it's a bit of a slog. Episodes 5 through 8 are famously bad though according to people I've asked, so hopefully I'll break through and enjoy it for its silliness.

Back to the post, KLK is so smart with the way it deals with fan service and its ridiculous explanations for nudity that it really deserves a watch from people who are (understandably) creeped out at first glance. 3 episodes and you'll either be hooked, or hopefully understand where fans are coming from. KLK occupies the same space as (not going to pretend I'm the first person to say this) Bayonetta, where it's easy to write off until you realise everything is justified and nothing feels out of place composed against the inherent silliness and over the top action scenes.

#13 Posted by Bocam (3784 posts) -

Now go watch Berserk

#14 Edited by ViciousBearMauling (1169 posts) -

@grantheaslip said:

At a time in which the "gaming community" is more concerned than ever with diversity and tolerance, anime and/or JRPGs fans are one of the few remaining groups one can pretty safely throw under the bus while still getting high-fives all around.

Yup, it's really interesting that we want to be inclusive, just not with "those anime guys".

The stigma that all anime is "Tentacle porn" is fairly ridiculous, and makes the critics of the medium look pretty ignorant. Of course there are the creepy shows with gross fan-service, but fans of the medium usually don't pay attention to those shows anyway. They look at it like Anime is a genre, comprised of the same things in every show, when it's not a genre at all, no matter what Netflix tries to tell you.

In a world with things like Cowboy BeBop, Samurai Champloo, Gurren Lagann, Psycho Pass, Ghost in the Shell, Princess Mononoke and Evangelion (I could go on and on) it's hard to believe that people can still bash anime as this gross hobby for recluse lonely fat men with an attraction to underage girls.

Also, on a less serious note, Kill la Kill is a really fun show that people should watch.

#15 Posted by Turambar (6808 posts) -

@humanity said:

This is kind of like someone saying how Miley Cyrus got them to love pop music. On one hand I'm happy for your newfound appreciation, but on the other I'm really sad you had to find it that way.

Find it what way?

The only thing more annoying than people dismissing anime in broad strokes are people chest beating about which ones are good / bad. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to write a thousand words over why Gundam ZZ is an atrocity to man.

#16 Posted by StarvingGamer (8370 posts) -

@azrailx said:

kill la kill will always be inferior, even though i have never seen it, to gurren lagann because of the WAAAY over the top fan service outfits

I've never seen Gurren Lagann, but the outfits in Kill La Kill subversively lampoon female fashion in shounen anime and end up being completely justified within the show's logic in an interesting way. I'm guessing Yoko's outfit's justification is nothing more than, well, a trope is a trope?

#17 Posted by toots (467 posts) -

do yourself the life-long favor of watching cowboy bebop, especially if you want to appreciate anime. It's the easiest to approach and is suited more or less for a western audience so it's not chock full of anime stereotype, and everything about it is great. The art, the music, the standalone episodes as well as the main plot, all of it, greatness. Kill La Kill seems like an odd way to get into anime, but hey, whatever works!

#18 Posted by Ravelle (1320 posts) -

That last tweet really gets to the heart of the issue: a sense that anime fans are gross, sexually-perverted weirdos. This stereotype — like most stereotypes — comes from somewhere.

Ignorance is where it comes from.

#19 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1169 posts) -

@azrailx said:

kill la kill will always be inferior, even though i have never seen it, to gurren lagann because of the WAAAY over the top fan service outfits

I've never seen Gurren Lagann, but the outfits in Kill La Kill subversively lampoon female fashion in shounen anime and end up being completely justified within the show's logic in an interesting way. I'm guessing Yoko's outfit's justification is nothing more than, well, a trope is a trope?

As a fan of Gurren Lagann, I can tell you that Yoko is wearing what she is wearing because they needed at least one hot girl wearing close to nothing, and the only other one in the series was underaged.

Not much justification, and I'd say Yoko's design is maybe the worst thing in the show (Doesn't make the show any less amazing)

#20 Edited by TheManWithNoPlan (5797 posts) -

As someone who was out of the anime loop for years and had the same outlook as those people in the tweets above, I can definitely say in retrospect that, to an extent, it's an unfair assessment. I eventually discovered that there's more to anime that gross sex stuff and insufferable brooding teenagers. In fact, if you take the time there's some pretty cool stuff out there.

I think the real problem for a lot of people is that the word "anime" incites such a deep disgust/ desire to dismiss that they can't overcome their instincts to appreciate anything about the medium period. And unfortunately there is a justification why people still have that instinct.

#21 Edited by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@starvinggamer said:

@azrailx said:

kill la kill will always be inferior, even though i have never seen it, to gurren lagann because of the WAAAY over the top fan service outfits

I've never seen Gurren Lagann, but the outfits in Kill La Kill subversively lampoon female fashion in shounen anime and end up being completely justified within the show's logic in an interesting way. I'm guessing Yoko's outfit's justification is nothing more than, well, a trope is a trope?

The better reason it's inferior is because it simply doesn't have moments that match the likes of Gurren Lagann's episode 8 and 11.

#22 Posted by Party (104 posts) -

@grantheaslip: You can't really use one show to epitomize the entire medium though, right? I loved Gurren Lagann and most things I've heard about Kill La Kill have been pretty positive too. There are a ton of anime shows/movies that I love and I think can stand independently as some of the best entertainment out there. That being said, you can't ignore the weirder side of anime. While there is stuff like Kill La Kill that attempts to poke fun at the pandering fanservice-y nature of general anime, there is plenty of anime that is just... well... pandering and fanservice-y. And while all other mediums have low points and high points, it seems like anime gets the stigma that it does just by sheer volume; there seems to be a huge amount of anime content that is being produced specifically for a certain demographic. Is there anything necessarily wrong with that? No. I don't think it's fair to call out people on saying "ewwww, anime" when there is such a large amount of anime content out there that doesn't amount to much more than "bewbs". Those people aren't attacking anime as a medium incapable of producing quality content, they're just pointing out the continued weirdness that anime is associated with.

#23 Posted by Humanity (9579 posts) -

@humanity said:

This is kind of like someone saying how Miley Cyrus got them to love pop music. On one hand I'm happy for your newfound appreciation, but on the other I'm really sad you had to find it that way.

Find it what way?

Through watching a generally speaking substandard show. As @believer258 mentioned, you would be much better off watching Gurren Lagann, the series or better yet the movie - similar pacing and over the top action, with a better plot and vastly superior animation. But hey, we all come to the medium through weird and different shows. My first anime back in middle school was Guyver. Then again, Guyver is awesome.

Online
#24 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@turambar: *Throws money at your Patreon.*

In all seriousness, anime is a medium that encompasses numerous genres and styles. Judging an entire medium based on the content of select productions is ludicrous.

#25 Posted by TheCreamFilling (1226 posts) -

I really wanted to like Kill La Kill, but the problem with constant, over the top action is that eventually it just can't outdo itself anymore. Plus the fanservice got old fast.

#26 Posted by StarvingGamer (8370 posts) -

@viciousbearmauling: Yeah. To be clear, as someone who has ironically unironically used the term "waifu", I have nothing against impractical sexy outfits for impractical sexiness's sake, but dismissing Kill La Kill based solely on the fashion is the laziest sort of autopilot criticism possible. It always gets my hackles up a bit. That said, the comments in this thread have gotten me interested in watching Gurren Lagann, especially now that I know that it's by the same people responsible for Kill La Kill.

#27 Posted by Humanity (9579 posts) -

@viciousbearmauling: Yeah. To be clear, as someone who has ironically unironically used the term "waifu", I have nothing against impractical sexy outfits for impractical sexiness's sake, but dismissing Kill La Kill based solely on the fashion is the laziest sort of autopilot criticism possible. It always gets my hackles up a bit. That said, the comments in this thread have gotten me interested in watching Gurren Lagann, especially now that I know that it's by the same people responsible for Kill La Kill.

It's an amazing show, one of a few that has some actual character growth in it. I mean it's no Cowboy Bebop, but nothing is really.

Online
#28 Edited by redyoshi (179 posts) -

I still listen to the soundtrack from this show. Blumenkranz in particular. It's just fantastic.

#29 Posted by ZombiePie (5707 posts) -

I am going to post a comment that I think Kill la Kill is not a good anime and one of the worst anime experiences I had this year.

Moderator
#30 Edited by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@party said:

@grantheaslip: You can't really use one show to epitomize the entire medium though, right? I loved Gurren Lagann and most things I've heard about Kill La Kill have been pretty positive too. There are a ton of anime shows/movies that I love and I think can stand independently as some of the best entertainment out there. That being said, you can't ignore the weirder side of anime. While there is stuff like Kill La Kill that attempts to poke fun at the pandering fanservice-y nature of general anime, there is plenty of anime that is just... well... pandering and fanservice-y. And while all other mediums have low points and high points, it seems like anime gets the stigma that it does just by sheer volume; there seems to be a huge amount of anime content that is being produced specifically for a certain demographic. Is there anything necessarily wrong with that? No. I don't think it's fair to call out people on saying "ewwww, anime" when there is such a large amount of anime content out there that doesn't amount to much more than "bewbs". Those people aren't attacking anime as a medium incapable of producing quality content, they're just pointing out the continued weirdness that anime is associated with.

I think the annoyance the OP feels is not so much criticism directed towards anime (people who actually watch anime can critique it far more harshly than Dan Rykert, Leigh Alexander, or Ben Kuchera, I assure you.) Much of it comes from the fact that while criticisms of games are directed towards the product most of the time, criticisms of anime are directed towards the consumers most of the time. Simply going by those three tweats listed by the OP, none of them speak anything, constructive or otherwise, about animation quality, story, characterization, diversity and representation, etc. They are all focused on consumers that they are eager to malign in large fell swoops.

It ceases being "people are saying dumb things about this thing I like" and instead becomes "people are saying dumb things about me." This changes the conversation and any potential response quite a lot.

#31 Posted by MooseyMcMan (11276 posts) -

I am going to post a comment that I think Kill la Kill is not a good anime and one of the worst anime experiences I had this year.

Every time you say something like this you just make me want to watch it more, ZP.

Moderator
#32 Edited by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@zombiepie said:

I am going to post a comment that I think Kill la Kill is not a good anime and one of the worst anime experiences I had this year.

Don't you watch most of your anime while drunk anyways?

#33 Edited by Turambar (6808 posts) -

@humanity said:
@starvinggamer said:

@viciousbearmauling: Yeah. To be clear, as someone who has ironically unironically used the term "waifu", I have nothing against impractical sexy outfits for impractical sexiness's sake, but dismissing Kill La Kill based solely on the fashion is the laziest sort of autopilot criticism possible. It always gets my hackles up a bit. That said, the comments in this thread have gotten me interested in watching Gurren Lagann, especially now that I know that it's by the same people responsible for Kill La Kill.

It's an amazing show, one of a few that has some actual character growth in it. I mean it's no Cowboy Bebop, but nothing is really.

Funny you should say that, considering Cowboy Bebop is a show that has zero character growth, instead focusing on the character's failures in dealing with their demons. I mean, Spike's entire plot line is is inability to let go of the past, Fey has no past to return to, and falls into despair, and Jet is just bummed about life by the end of everything.

It is quite amazing in how interesting they make ultimately static characters.

#34 Posted by StarvingGamer (8370 posts) -

@turambar said:

@humanity said:
@starvinggamer said:

@viciousbearmauling: Yeah. To be clear, as someone who has ironically unironically used the term "waifu", I have nothing against impractical sexy outfits for impractical sexiness's sake, but dismissing Kill La Kill based solely on the fashion is the laziest sort of autopilot criticism possible. It always gets my hackles up a bit. That said, the comments in this thread have gotten me interested in watching Gurren Lagann, especially now that I know that it's by the same people responsible for Kill La Kill.

It's an amazing show, one of a few that has some actual character growth in it. I mean it's no Cowboy Bebop, but nothing is really.

Funny you should say that, considering Cowboy Bebop is a show that has zero character growth, instead focusing on the character's failures in dealing with their demons. I mean, Spike's entire plot line is is inability to let go of the past, Fey has no past to return to, and falls into despair, and Jet is just bummed about life by the end of everything.

Have you guys seen Nadesico? No one I know has seen/cares about Nadesico.

#35 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1169 posts) -

I am going to post a comment that I think Kill la Kill is not a good anime and one of the worst anime experiences I had this year.

You're not a good anime. Boom!

Also, you must have skipped SAO if you think Kill la Kill was your worst experience this year. Boom!

#36 Posted by believer258 (11984 posts) -

@starvinggamer said:

@azrailx said:

kill la kill will always be inferior, even though i have never seen it, to gurren lagann because of the WAAAY over the top fan service outfits

I've never seen Gurren Lagann, but the outfits in Kill La Kill subversively lampoon female fashion in shounen anime and end up being completely justified within the show's logic in an interesting way. I'm guessing Yoko's outfit's justification is nothing more than, well, a trope is a trope?

As a fan of Gurren Lagann, I can tell you that Yoko is wearing what she is wearing because they needed at least one hot girl wearing close to nothing, and the only other one in the series was underaged.

Not much justification, and I'd say Yoko's design is maybe the worst thing in the show (Doesn't make the show any less amazing)

Isn't Yoko like 14?

#37 Posted by ZombiePie (5707 posts) -

@turambar said:
@zombiepie said:

I am going to post a comment that I think Kill la Kill is not a good anime and one of the worst anime experiences I had this year.

Don't you watch most of your anime while drunk anyways?

Not anymore, but I can tell you that I have been in a protracted war with @aurahack about how all of the Kill la Kill cast is terrible, and the story is moronic.

Mako is a bad character that is more annoying than entertaining.

Moderator
#38 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1169 posts) -

@believer258: I don't think her age is ever stated, but she sure as hell is closer to 18 than Nia.

#39 Posted by StarvingGamer (8370 posts) -

@believer258: I don't think her age is ever stated, but she sure as hell is closer to 18 than Nia.

Cursory Google search says 16 first half 23 second half (self spoilers?!?!?!??)

#40 Posted by Jazz_Bcaz (271 posts) -

Satoshi Kon is one of the most sophisticated, kinetic and enigmatic directors to have ever lived and people that write off anime just get to miss out some of the best editing and imagery ever put on screen. RIP

#41 Edited by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@starvinggamer said:

@turambar said:

@humanity said:
@starvinggamer said:

@viciousbearmauling: Yeah. To be clear, as someone who has ironically unironically used the term "waifu", I have nothing against impractical sexy outfits for impractical sexiness's sake, but dismissing Kill La Kill based solely on the fashion is the laziest sort of autopilot criticism possible. It always gets my hackles up a bit. That said, the comments in this thread have gotten me interested in watching Gurren Lagann, especially now that I know that it's by the same people responsible for Kill La Kill.

It's an amazing show, one of a few that has some actual character growth in it. I mean it's no Cowboy Bebop, but nothing is really.

Funny you should say that, considering Cowboy Bebop is a show that has zero character growth, instead focusing on the character's failures in dealing with their demons. I mean, Spike's entire plot line is is inability to let go of the past, Fey has no past to return to, and falls into despair, and Jet is just bummed about life by the end of everything.

Have you guys seen Nadesico? No one I know has seen/cares about Nadesico.

Why yes, I have watched the Gekiganger ova.

#42 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1169 posts) -

@viciousbearmauling said:

@believer258: I don't think her age is ever stated, but she sure as hell is closer to 18 than Nia.

Cursory Google search says 16 first half 23 second half (self spoilers?!?!?!??)

Not really a huge spoiler. The show just spans a larger amount of time than most shows. Not a big deal. You're good. Calm down. CALM DOWN!

#43 Edited by Humanity (9579 posts) -

@turambar said:

@humanity said:
@starvinggamer said:

@viciousbearmauling: Yeah. To be clear, as someone who has ironically unironically used the term "waifu", I have nothing against impractical sexy outfits for impractical sexiness's sake, but dismissing Kill La Kill based solely on the fashion is the laziest sort of autopilot criticism possible. It always gets my hackles up a bit. That said, the comments in this thread have gotten me interested in watching Gurren Lagann, especially now that I know that it's by the same people responsible for Kill La Kill.

It's an amazing show, one of a few that has some actual character growth in it. I mean it's no Cowboy Bebop, but nothing is really.

Funny you should say that, considering Cowboy Bebop is a show that has zero character growth, instead focusing on the character's failures in dealing with their demons. I mean, Spike's entire plot line is is inability to let go of the past, Fey has no past to return to, and falls into despair, and Jet is just bummed about life by the end of everything.

It is quite amazing in how interesting they make ultimately static characters.

Oh I wasn't referencing Cowboy Bebop in terms of character growth but rather as a metric of a quality show. I completely agree that Bebop doesn't have almost any growth at all, but as you said that is actually one of the primary motifs of that series - not being able to let go/dealing with your past demons.

I will say though that apart from Spike there are nuggets here and there. Jet settles an old score and is able to move on. Faye faces her particular troubles and seems to at least partially accept them and try to move onward. Even Ed goes off on her own with a newfound purpose. Spike deals with his own issues by the end of the show and to this day I think it's one of the most powerful endings I've ever seen.

I've seen very little of Nadesico so I can't really comment on it. As far as lesser appreciated shows go I always really enjoyed Rahxephon, so we all have our crosses to bear.

Online
#44 Edited by syz (252 posts) -

Yoko's 14 because GAINAX makes everybody 14.

Similarly, Yoko's outfit exists because GAINAX requires at least one character who can push merch, and they're not shameless enough to just put Rei in everything.

#45 Edited by aurahack (2278 posts) -

@jazz_bcaz said:

Satoshi Kon is one of the most sophisticated, kinetic and enigmatic directors to have ever lived and people that write off anime just get to miss out some of the best editing and imagery ever put on screen. RIP

This is absolute critical viewing. Satoshi Kon was a master of animation.

Also this just in, @zombiepie continues to be a hateful monster who couldn't have fun with anything to save his life.

#46 Edited by I_Stay_Puft (3558 posts) -

I think most people who say that all anime is disgusting say it with a tongue and cheek attitude. If you're hating on anime you are hating on things that have influenced western culture for years. I can't take any offense to when people say something like that or just can't get into it because there are parts in some genre of anime culture I myself find mildly offensive. So it's not always just the outside world looking in and disagreeing with the inside anime community, sometimes it's groups within the inside disagreeing with other groups inside sometimes. I for one like anime if you don't like anime, well that's fine too.

#47 Edited by EVO (3919 posts) -

Anyone else seen Mind Game? I watched it the other night and loved it.

#48 Posted by sawtooth (446 posts) -

You guys seen Dead Leaves? I have trouble getting into series (for pretty much anything, not just anime) because they always start to feel drawn out, but DL is a nice quick gut punch of a movie with just enough anime nonsense to give me a dumb smile.

#49 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1169 posts) -

@syz said:

Yoko's 14 because GAINAX makes everybody 14.

Similarly, Yoko's outfit exists because GAINAX requires at least one character who can push merch, and they're not shameless enough to just put Rei in everything.

I'd be okay with Rei in literally every anime.

#50 Posted by Branthog (5583 posts) -

People who make their living as gaming enthusiasts have no place admonishing fans of anime or nearly anything else. Hell, I trash people who are fans of fake wrestling (and as a real wrestler, I feel I have some degree of liberty to do so -- though even with my shit talking, I'd never really judge someone personally for it) but even I am a fucking asshole for doing that.

Anyway, I'm not an anime fan. Not because I have anything against it - just because it is so hard to find a whole series, properly translated, start to finish, of good stuff. My eyes suck, so subtitles are difficult for me. Dubs are fine, but it's still hard to find good dubbed anime series from start to finish. Plus, as a newbie, it's hard to parse through all the Dragon Ball Z and One Piece and Pokemon crap to find the Cowboy Bebop and other stuff (and, often, good stuff is belied by shitty names that give you the wrong impression... like fucking Cowboy Bebop).

Also, I've never understood the occasional person who acts like anime is creepy. What's so creepy about it? It's animated story telling. It's huge in japan. Are they confusing anime with hentai?!

Anime and Japanese culture have plenty of neat stuff to consume. I guess there's lots of potentially creepy stuff if that's what you're into, but that's like saying that if you indulge in American culture, you are inherently indulging in violence and rape and murder.