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#51 Posted by mordukai (8480 posts) -

I am really enjoying the soundtrack.

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#52 Posted by OurSin_360 (4445 posts) -

@deathstriker: i enjoyed the action scenes in luke cage, but yeah i thought were talking fight scenes specifically.

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#53 Posted by Deathstriker (495 posts) -

After just finishing the show I'd still probably say it's third with Luke Cage fourth. I got frustrated watching this, but not bored and I did get bored with LC. It's pretty much a toss up between these two shows, since they both have some major problems, especially in the second half. I won't spoil anything, but in the second half it seems like Danny loses his cool and confidence. Claire brings up how he used to seem innocent, so maybe they did this on purpose, but him having the emotional maturity of a child and being aimless about his purpose wasn't fun to watch, also his plans are pretty awful.

I am tired of the "no killing" thing - it doesn't fit every and all heroes. If Danny has been trained to be a living weapon most of his life he should be okay killing. He shouldn't do it in cold blood, but it would be more unique and interesting if he didn't mind killing in a fight. The same going for Colleen running around with a sword but not really using it. Reminded me of the PG-13s Wolverines where he just slices guns in half. They should've given her a staff or something else non-lethal to use. I still wouldn't say it's "awful", but it is heavily flawed, which I felt the same about Luke Cage. JJ and especially DD are way better to me. They probably should've gotten someone who worked on DD to do this, since both shows have the same villains, this needed to be darker, and the fights would've been way better.

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#54 Posted by familyphotoshoot (710 posts) -

Finished the final two episodes this morning, and overall I thought the show was "meh". Finn Jones just doesn't have the physicality to sell himself as a martial arts master, the fight scenes were overall poorly choreographed and filmed, and (like most of the other Marvel Netflix shows) there wasn't enough plot to justify 13 episodes.

My current rankings of the Netflix Marvel shows:

1. Daredevil Season 1
2. Daredevil Season 2, First half with the Punisher
3. Luke Cage, First half with Cottonmouth
4. Jessica Jones
5. Daredevil Season 2, Second half with Elektra and the Hand
6. Iron First
7. Luke Cage, Second half

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#55 Posted by j-mack (44 posts) -

I finished the series and it's really, really rough. I have a lot of criticisms, but I'll focus on one. I hate the boiler plate "kill and him and you'll be just as bad" theme they inserted and not because it's a common trope, but because they don't explore it. First, is killing a mystical ninja who brain washes disadvantaged youths into joining a private really going to make you as bad as them? Two, they don't have a plan for mystical ninjas. They constantly question whether he should kill them, but they don't have any other plans. Jessica Jones had a plan for Kilgrave, but what are they going to do with mystical ninjas? What jail will hold Madam Gao even if they arrest her? Can they tie her to any crimes? It's just something they bring up so they can pretend the show is about something.

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#56 Posted by Nardak (930 posts) -

I pretty much binged this series in about 2 days or so. Overall i liked a lot of stuff in this series but I think the final episode is bit problematic ( i think they wasted a good chance for potential season 2 in this episode).

Dont really have to say much about the controversy around iron fist as i didnt even know that such a superhero exists before netflix started promoting this series. Would have been fine with asian actor in the role but didnt find this particular actor wrong for this role either. Though the actress who played colleen wing stood out for me especially. Wouldnt mind watching a spinoff series built around her adventures.

I also agree that they are talking a lot about Iron fist as a living weapon but we really didnt get a scene where he kinda goes all out. They could be saving that stuff for the defenders but dont think that is a good decision in this case.

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#57 Edited by devise22 (450 posts) -

@j-mack said:

I finished the series and it's really, really rough. I have a lot of criticisms, but I'll focus on one. I hate the boiler plate "kill and him and you'll be just as bad" theme they inserted and not because it's a common trope, but because they don't explore it. First, is killing a mystical ninja who brain washes disadvantaged youths into joining a private really going to make you as bad as them? Two, they don't have a plan for mystical ninjas. They constantly question whether he should kill them, but they don't have any other plans. Jessica Jones had a plan for Kilgrave, but what are they going to do with mystical ninjas? What jail will hold Madam Gao even if they arrest her? Can they tie her to any crimes? It's just something they bring up so they can pretend the show is about something.

I gotta disagree with you here. I'm not completely done the series, we are only a couple episodes away. However I felt that the very laid back pacifist approach to Danny as a character is meant to provide a moral compass if you will, around the whole show. How they presented him from the first episode till now, as this care free budhist who is trying to re-discover a world he once idolized as a child plays in pretty great contrast to the city and world as he returns to it. It's why I was also fine with how reserved his fighting style was. He didn't want to be the Iron Fist, he left to avoid that destiny. As responsibility gets thrust onto him, and as he realizes that returning home brings him just as involved with all the rotten stuff going on whether it be the Hand, his company or even the life with his former childhood friends; which side point here. The entire Meechum sub plot is the highlight for this show imo. I feel like the slow build of Iron Fist finding himself and his purpose would absolutely fall flat if that was all the show was. The drama this side plot specifically creates, and some truly fascinating scenes. The acting by all involved, but especially Ward Meechum is stellar. His entire sub plot has been fascinating till this point.

Anyway; I don't feel there is a point to criticize Rand for how they have handled the Gao situation. The show presents Raand as powerful but young and reckless. He very much has very little handle on how to do this, other than to try to limit the danger from his friends his decision making has been all over the place. I feel that is intentional. He's supposed to grow into a super hero, not become this amazing crime solving villain stopping person overnight. The mistakes he makes, and the consequences he faces because of that all feel like lessons in that process. It mirrors how they build his action scenes too. As the show wears on you see him do more and more, but I feel like a big part of this series is him discovering himself. Really that slow build is either going to work for some, or not I find. But as mentioned I was completely okay with that just because the sub plots across the board are fascinating. Even Clarie (Rosario Dawsons) presence, and her trying to discover her place now that her world has been flipped upside down has been enjoyable to see.

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#58 Edited by OurSin_360 (4445 posts) -

On the third episode and have to agree on the fight scenes, not sure why the choreography isn't up to par with daredevil I get they are going for a more wirefu esque(so far minus the wire) but it seems a bit slow and none of the hits feel impactful. I like the main character (didn't think i would) it's cliche but the actor pulls it off ,hopefully something interesting happens soon though. The Hand haven't been that good so far so i am hoping this will do a better job with them than daredevil season 2

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#59 Posted by Jesus_Phish (3165 posts) -

I've only watched the first episode but I might leave it at that. Danny Rand or maybe the guy playing him, is a particularly unlikable character in this show. It's hard to see myself rooting for such an absolute toolbag.

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#60 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (3006 posts) -

@jesus_phish: It gets better as it goes along also you aren't really meant to like Danny in the beginning.

On the third episode and have to agree on the fight scenes, not sure why the choreography isn't up to par with daredevil I get they are going for a more wirefu esque(so far minus the wire) but it seems a bit slow and none of the hits feel impactful. I like the main character (didn't think i would) it's cliche but the actor pulls it off ,hopefully something interesting happens soon though. The Hand haven't been that good so far so i am hoping this will do a better job with them than daredevil season 2

One of the reasons I think is that DD had the benefit of the main character always wearing a mask and so they could have a stuntman in the role for 99% of the time. Also, I suspect that they might have overstretched their resources by making Iron Fist and the Defenders at the same time.

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#61 Posted by achillesforever (41 posts) -

@jesus_phish: It gets better as it goes along also you aren't really meant to like Danny in the beginning.

@oursin_360 said:

On the third episode and have to agree on the fight scenes, not sure why the choreography isn't up to par with daredevil I get they are going for a more wirefu esque(so far minus the wire) but it seems a bit slow and none of the hits feel impactful. I like the main character (didn't think i would) it's cliche but the actor pulls it off ,hopefully something interesting happens soon though. The Hand haven't been that good so far so i am hoping this will do a better job with them than daredevil season 2

One of the reasons I think is that DD had the benefit of the main character always wearing a mask and so they could have a stuntman in the role for 99% of the time. Also, I suspect that they might have overstretched their resources by making Iron Fist and the Defenders at the same time.

In retrospect I wish they didn't go with the Frank Miller early DD costume because I think that prevented them from wanting to use the classic IF costume.

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#62 Edited by hermes (2253 posts) -

Going to say the same thing I said in another forum since, although I have seen more of the series and some aspects do improve, the first 3 or 4 episodes can be responsible for the poor reception from the critics:

"I am 4 episodes in, and I can understand the critics reaction. For context, most critic only had access to the first 3 episodes, and based on that, the series was not very well received. It is "Iron Fist" so, even someone with very tenuous knowledge of the character would go for it waiting over the top martial arts scenes and "oriental exotic" mysticism. So far, the series delivers in none of that. Instead, it spend a very large amount of its time with Danny going all "its really me, I really am a missing millionaire" and no one believing him, sometimes going to caricaturesque levels of stupidity and disbelief (specially in a world were there are confirmed sights of mythological gods, mind controlling murderers and guys in power armor). I am not a fan of the phrase "first world problems", but this is all the dramatic tension the series goes for in the first few episodes.

It doesn't really help that the stunts and edition are not very good. As I said, good fighting stunts should be paramount in a series about Iron Fist; yet Jones is very bad at action stunts, and they haphazardly hide it with fast cutting and convoluted camera angles. There is rarely a kick shown in its entirely, and no elegance to his moves. I know they are going with the street brawl style ever since Daredevil, but it makes a lot more sense in Daredevil (the son of a boxer) or Luke Cage (a bouncer whose best fighting experience comes from prison fighting), than in Iron Fist (a guy trained for years by warrior monks in all known martial arts). There should be an ballet-like elegance and ease with his moves, instead we get a guy that spend 5 minutes trying to knock down a single guy with a brass knuckle. Henwick does a little better, but mostly because the bar was set really low, and yet she also falls pray of the "lets cut the shots rapidly so no one notices the errors in continuity" practice, which is a lot more economical and easier than "lets try to shoot this sequence again, from the beginning, and make it right this time".

By chapters 4 and 5, the series improves by giving us a proper villain (cliche as they might be, it is better suited for Iron Fist than caricature stupid rich bully) and getting some distance from the "will he be able to return to his life of luxury and regain control of his billions of dollars" subplot that is more fitting for a Ricky Rich comic than a Netflix series, so I am hoping it continues to improve... But I can totally understand people that after the first 2 or 3 episodes were disillusioned of what is likely to be the weakest of the series."

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#63 Edited by j-mack (44 posts) -

@jonny_anonymous: Not having a mask was a big problem, especially because the actor doesn't have a martial arts background. There's a clear divide in the quality of the action scenes when they are well lit compared to fight scenes in dramatic shadows with rapid cuts away from his face.

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#64 Edited by Mezmero (3193 posts) -

I wanted to finish the series before posting here but god damn it has it been a slog to get through. I'm past the first eight episodes and I'm pretty negative on it overall so far after coming to really enjoy the Marvel Streetimatic universe on Netflix. I think the worst thing I can say about it is that it feels like a ho-hum version of Arrow. That's kind of a damning statement when you consider that there are parts in Arrow, particularly in the first season, that are just GAWD AWFUL. The action is not one of those parts and I would go so far as to say the fights in Arrow are more exciting by comparison. However the schmaltzy character stuff in between the action of Iron Fist is as bad and sometimes worse. Even the primary antagonists at the start, the Meachums feel like an inferior version to the Merlyns from Arrow. They're about twice as slimy and unlikable as the Merlyns, which might be a good thing, but then they also come across as half as competent or interesting in just about every other way. You could sum up the arc of the first three episodes as thus: "It's me! No you're not! Yes I am! No you're not! Yes I am! No you're not! Yes I am! Fine!"

My Chief Beef is that the actual use of The Iron Fist technique has been wholly underwhelming for more than half of the series. I really feel like they should've tried channeling at least a little bit of One Punch Man in this show instead of going the DnD Monk route and only allowing a per-day use of The Iron Fist just 'cuz. Ironically enough Luke Cage came across way more like OPM in his show than Danny Rand does here. The fights end up feeling super contrived in spite of how much the script tries to hype up Danny's combat prowess. I'll probably finish this show because I might as well at this point... I just think the other Marvel shows set a high bar that this one doesn't quite meet.

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#65 Posted by Messier (275 posts) -

This show is pretty good. I've got through the first 9 episodes in 3 days and it's gotten better as it goes. Really elevates the back half of Daredevil season 2 as well since I now see they were starting to lay the groundwork for Iron Fist and what is yet to come. The Defenders series has a real shot of being something great. The casting on the titular Netflix heroes has been perfect, all strong performances that bring the characters to life. I look forward to seeing them interact in the team-up.

I find the manufactured outrage by racist critics cringe worthy. If all you care about is the color of the person playing a character, that says more about you than the people who made the show.

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#66 Posted by Veektarius (6096 posts) -

@j-mack: Yeah, right there with you on this being a superhero trope that is way past its time. Almost no one actually thinks like that and it ends up being something you have to "overlook" about even good series time after time (Jessica Jones killed though, don't forget about that). Then you get shows trying to own up to it like when Daredevil and Punisher argue, but the arguments always suck because no matter how high your bar is for evidence and clear and present danger, there is always a case in which killing someone is the better option and we've all consumed enough action movies for it to be easy to think of a few.

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#67 Posted by OurSin_360 (4445 posts) -

On episode 9 and i like the show but it's definitely lower quality than the other ones, everything just feels lower budget. One thing that bugs me and maybe i forgot but, when the hell did madam gao become a member of the hand?

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#68 Posted by WarlordPayne (774 posts) -

@oursin_360: I don't think we ever knew exactly what her deal was, but they hinted pretty heavily at there being some sort of supernatural element to her.

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#69 Posted by Splodge (2413 posts) -

So if you want to Watch a series with truly amazing fight choreography and Swordplay, "Into the Badlands" is the shiznizz. The writing and acting can be a little wooden, but I guess thats only natural when most of the cast are choreography experts. The second series just started, and thankfully they are expanding the scope and the budget in meaningful ways. I thoroughly recommend it.

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#70 Edited by OurSin_360 (4445 posts) -

@warlordpayne: episode later i kinda got my answer, it felt weird because she seemed at odds with the other faction from dd.

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#71 Posted by Demyx (3247 posts) -

I got about 8 episodes in and I just don't care anymore. It definitely got better but it's painfully mediocre.