• 89 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Linkyshinks (9880 posts) -
Libya's leader, Colonel Moammar Gaddafi has requested that all Muslim nations around the world declare "Jihad" (-Holy War) on the nation of Switzerland, this comes after the Swiss people voted in a referendum to ban the construction of all minarets in a nationwide vote. For those not familiar with the architectural feature, Minarets are very much akin to spires found on most Churches found throughout Western world, and like churches they're used to call followers to prayer. They also act as a vital air conditioning vent to release warm air which gathers at the vertex of a mosque's dome. 
 
One of the most beautiful examples of Muslim art & architecture in the world, the Taj Mahal in India, has four of them: 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
After watching a BBC report this morning, my initial thoughts were: if their nation have democratically voted on this, why have they done so, what's the reasoning behind this, could it be to protect a skyline which at present is a bastion to Christendom In Europe?. Or, is it because they fear that the take up of the Muslim religion in Switzerland, like everywhere in Europe is escalating at a very rapid pace?. I then saw this poster flash up on the BBC report...
 
This red and black poster is real (German Nazi campaign posters used red & black also), it's use was widespread all across Switzerland as part of a campaign to gather votes during the referendum. The poster in question shows a Muslim woman in a traditional Burka, and a Swiss flag with minarets that resemble missiles springing from it. I find the poster somewhat shocking, simply because this is Switzerland we're talking about, a country who I believed previous to this were very much like the Holland - an open all embracing society.   
 
Here in the UK we now have firm laws about inciting religious hatred, no such poster could ever have been allowed to frequent our transport system in the way that this poster has done in Switzerland. I find it astounding that the Swiss government allowed such a poster, sure, allow a poster to call for a ban and let your nation decide, but to allow a poster which seems to incite religious hatred, fear and mistrust....
 
 
Libya's leader in reaction to the ban, has withdrawn vast sums money (Libya is oil rich) out of the numerous Swiss bank accounts his government had. The exportation of all Libyan oil has also now ceased. He's also said the following: 
 

“a country of infidels who have destroyed Allah’s house”



“The masses of Muslims around the world must go to all airports in the Islamic world and prevent any Swiss plane landing, to all our harbours and prevent any Swiss ships docking, inspect all our shops and markets to stop a single Swiss good from being sold.”

  "Let us wage jihad against Switzerland, Zionism and foreign aggression" 


"Any Muslim in any part of the world who works with Switzerland is an apostate, is against Muhammad, God and the Koran."

 
...... 
 

  
On a much lighter note ^^, does anyone else think Colonel Gaddafi looks like The Cowboy from Inner Space :). Whenever I see him I always think about that film, and Back to the Future.
 

source:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8538474.stm
#2 Posted by MB (12257 posts) -

Good luck on a jihad against the Swiss, they probably have more armed & trained citizens than any other country in the world due to the way their military is structured.

Moderator
#3 Posted by RTSlord (1200 posts) -

if i do remember correctly, there was a news story on cnn about how minarets were somehow connected to fundamentalist islamic tendancies, something that makes no sense at all
#4 Posted by oldschool (7264 posts) -

Whilst I don't agree with such a ban, at all, the reaction from Islamic nations every time this happens only reinforces the belief that Islam is not tolerant and therefore not to be trusted.  It isn't rational, and is easily fuelled by those who wish to do so, both Islamic and anti-Islamic.  Both sides on the extreme are not helping this at all - intentionally.  A distracted population does not scrutinise its government as much and this would be very much Gaddafi playing to a local audience.  Sadly it has an effect outside his borders.  I also agree LS, posters such as that should not be allowed and a mature nation has reasonable limits on free speech, which is very difficult to define.

#5 Posted by mrcool11 (469 posts) -

Jihad4LIF

#6 Posted by animateria (3252 posts) -

I dunno, the Muslim tendency to call Jihad on a single comic strip to anything imaginable kinda puts things into perspective.
 
The poster and the banning of minarets just seem like the lesser blow in comparison. 
 
I'm against material that obviously target a group of people in an unjustified way, and that poster is terrible in that sense, but it's hard to sympathize when the reaction to it is war.
  
Anyways, I think fear is an important factor at work in Switzerland, and though it might not be rational to justify their banning, emotionally a jihad would justify Switzerland's stance. Every time a jihad is declared, it's a knock on the reputation of the Muslim faith rather than anyone else. It just makes the religion as a whole feel extremely violent.

#7 Posted by Aeterna (1117 posts) -

Well, we'll see if they'll end up doing even anything. And if they do something, I'm curious how the navo will respond.

#8 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -

hmm maybe now the islamics can stop hating americans.

#9 Posted by TheHT (11132 posts) -

Gadaffi's loco.
 
But really, why ban minarets? Stupid is as stupid does.

#10 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

Jihad doesn't necessarily mean war/suicide bombers/whatever other violence, you ( now) know. So, unless it's specified what kind of jihad is urged, and it is indeed Jihad of the Sword, it's a little hasty to claim they're doing something wrong by declaring such when their religious or other freedoms are affected.

Also, compulsory military service doesn't mean shit about the common person's fighting ability (which does nothing against a bomb anyway), plenty of nations (including my own, though it's being phased out) have conscription but that doesn't make every able man in the country a Rambo :-P

#11 Posted by AgentofChaos (1565 posts) -

Haha this is Muammar Al-Gadafi's first big move since 1986.

#12 Posted by Aeterna (1117 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:
" Jihad doesn't necessarily mean war/suicide bombers/whatever other violence, you ( now) know. So, unless it's specified what kind of jihad is urged, and it is indeed Jihad of the Sword, it's a little hasty to claim they're doing something wrong by declaring such when their religious or other freedoms are affected. "
The thing is, a minaret has no religious value, it's just architecture. 
They're fooling themselves into thinking they've been affected.
#13 Posted by JoelTGM (5596 posts) -

Careful, if you don't agree with me I'll kill you and all your friends.

#14 Posted by Phished0ne (2497 posts) -
@Aeterna said:
" @Al3xand3r said:
" Jihad doesn't necessarily mean war/suicide bombers/whatever other violence, you ( now) know. So, unless it's specified what kind of jihad is urged, and it is indeed Jihad of the Sword, it's a little hasty to claim they're doing something wrong by declaring such when their religious or other freedoms are affected. "
The thing is, a minaret has no religious value, it's just architecture. They're fooling themselves into thinking they've been affected. "
OH C'mon!  how much do you know about Islam?  how do you know a minaret has no religious value to them?  So i assume you think the crosses on spires of churches have no religious value, after all, its just architecture..what about stained glass?  also "just architecture".
#15 Edited by Linkyshinks (9880 posts) -
@AgentofChaos said:

" Haha this is Muammar Al-Gadafi's first big move since 1986. "

 
Your forgetting Lockerbie ^^  
 
That reminds me of another twisted affair. Recently the U.K government blatantly did a secret trade deal with Gaddafi, where one of the terms was to allow the Lockerbie bomber who was suffering with prostate cancer, to return home to Libya to die. It was believed he only had a few days to live...He survived a month on Libyan soil while being treated by his nation like a war hero upon his return.   
 
  
  
 
He killed both American & Britons on that day in '88. 
 
The British Government are scum, they say they don't deal with terrorists and those who fund it, but they do, they definitely do. They're also implicit in torture and rendition, just as much as the Americans government is. The British government cannot be trusted, the truth in our high courts is slowly coming out... 
 
 Yesterdays' BBC News
#16 Posted by MAN_FLANNEL (2462 posts) -

 Delta squad is in your house bitch, you hear this shit? You crubby-ass bitches are goin' down, like way down, dead down, so down , you aint even gonna know which way is up!  Your asses are goin' to be cruyin to your skunk-ass queen! Oh, mommy, don't let the bad men hurt us! Fuck you, we're gonna whup your mommas ass, wooooooooooooo!!!!!!

#17 Posted by TheHT (11132 posts) -
@MAN_FLANNEL said:
"  Delta squad is in your house bitch, you hear this shit? You crubby-ass bitches are goin' down, like way down, dead down, so down , you aint even gonna know which way is up!  Your asses are goin' to be cruyin to your skunk-ass queen! Oh, mommy, don't let the bad men hurt us! Fuck you, we're gonna whup your mommas ass, wooooooooooooo!!!!!! "
Wait, why's delta squad goin after the Brits?
#18 Posted by Meltbrain (2969 posts) -

Declaring a Jihad at this point is like a bad joke, but why ban the construction of minarets? I don't get it.

#19 Posted by TheHT (11132 posts) -
@Meltbrain said:

" Declaring a Jihad at this point is like a bad joke, but why ban the construction of minarets? I don't get it. "


 The Swiss People's Party are the one's that started the campaign, and apparently did so out of fear.

"We don't have anything against Muslims," said Oskar Freysinger, member of parliament for the Swiss People's Party.

"But we don't want minarets. The minaret is a symbol of a political and aggressive Islam, it's a symbol of Islamic law. The minute you have minarets in Europe it means Islam will have taken over."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6676271.stm
 
 The government was against the ban, thinking it would harm the country's image particularly to Muslims around the world.

Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf said: "Concerns [about Islamic fundamentalism] have to be taken seriously.

"However, a ban on the construction of new minarets is not a feasible means of countering extremist tendencies."

She sought to reassure Swiss Muslims, saying the decision was "not a rejection of the Muslim community, religion or culture".

 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8385069.stm
#20 Posted by Symphony (1912 posts) -

Ugg, religion.
 
I agree those posters are going a bit far (The Nazis are not a good example of how to run an ad campaign), 
As is the reaction (say what you will about what Jihad means, he said that in a very aggressive way so it leaves little to the imagination), 
As is the Libyan leaders hypocrisy (it's okay to put your money in infidel banks as long as they don't talk smack about your religion and when things cool down you can bet that money is going right back in there), 
As is banning them in the first place (oh noes, the Muslim spires are going to clash with the Christian ones and have an epic battle! We're doomed!)
 
 ....
 
Ugg, religion.

#21 Posted by Jrad (621 posts) -

The first steps toward a cleaner world. Hopefully (they won't) they'll ban all religious buildings next.

#22 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

hold on, people are declaring holy war because some country decided to ban the construction of tower things? 
 
Seriously? 
  
..Why do I even bother any more. 
 
Good luck with that.

#23 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -

Bring it.

#24 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -

My only comment is that religion poisons everything (yes I know I stole that quote from Christopher Hitchens, but I said it before I even heard of him). A 'holy war' in this day and age? Wtf? Do they think it's still the fucking Crusades? But seriously, the progression of Islamism in Europe is at an alarming rate, and I'm guessing they're doing anything in their power to stem the tide. Though the Nazi poster and the whole thing in general is of poor taste and misguided direction; minarets? Really? There was nothing else more subtle you could've done? Ironically, this incites the same violence they wanted to avoid in the first place. There's really no way out when dealing with irrationals. 

#25 Posted by Soap (3577 posts) -

hey... I ran out of cereal this morning. I DECLARE HOLY WAR ON KELLOGS!

#26 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@Soap: Those damn infidel corn flakes
#27 Posted by Claude (16255 posts) -

This is a money thing, but where that money goes nobody knows.

#28 Posted by Cube (4366 posts) -

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH GL HF

#29 Posted by ThePhantomnaut (6197 posts) -
#30 Posted by Aeterna (1117 posts) -
@Phished0ne said:
" @Aeterna said:
" @Al3xand3r said:
" Jihad doesn't necessarily mean war/suicide bombers/whatever other violence, you ( now) know. So, unless it's specified what kind of jihad is urged, and it is indeed Jihad of the Sword, it's a little hasty to claim they're doing something wrong by declaring such when their religious or other freedoms are affected. "
The thing is, a minaret has no religious value, it's just architecture. They're fooling themselves into thinking they've been affected. "
OH C'mon!  how much do you know about Islam?  how do you know a minaret has no religious value to them?  So i assume you think the crosses on spires of churches have no religious value, after all, its just architecture..what about stained glass?  also "just architecture". "
 
I, myself don't know the details about it as I'm an atheist. But I have several colleagues who's entire families are muslims. We discussed about the subject for probably 2 to 3 hours when the topic was in the media over here right after the ban. 
None of them could find any reason at all as to how a minaret'd be a religious building. None of them could care for it at all, besides from finding it rather strange. 
 
So... what was your point?
#31 Posted by Jadeskye (4367 posts) -
@Symphony said:
" Ugg, religion.   I agree those posters are going a bit far (The Nazis are not a good example of how to run an ad campaign),  As is the reaction (say what you will about what Jihad means, he said that in a very aggressive way so it leaves little to the imagination),  As is the Libyan leaders hypocrisy (it's okay to put your money in infidel banks as long as they don't talk smack about your religion and when things cool down you can bet that money is going right back in there),  As is banning them in the first place (oh noes, the Muslim spires are going to clash with the Christian ones and have an epic battle! We're doomed!)  .... Ugg, religion. "
you'd think we would have learned 900 years ago from the crusades huh? 
 
clearly we're not that smart :p
#32 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -

hehe

#33 Posted by Bombs_Away (1010 posts) -

The thing is, try getting a proper church, with Christian architecture, built in the Middle East (outside of Lebanon and maybe Dubai) and it's nigh on impossible. I used to live in Qatar, and they're currently building "churches" for the community but there are no crucifixes, no bells and no steeple. It's basically a fancy looking modern building with an altar on the inside. The idea is to give Christians a place of worship, but make it as discreet as possible. I was also living in Egypt last year and around any church, the government (Mubarak is almost as mental as Gaddafi) has built taller buildings all around it, to stop them having any affect on the landscape. 
 
So yeah it's a bit hypocritical in my opinion. And before anyone gets annoyed, I graduated with a degree in Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies and I've lived all over the Middle East.

#34 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

Spare the Swiss Chocolate, please? 
Don't give a shit if you blow yourselves up, just don't kill the chocolate bunnies and stuff :( 
 
Derka Derka, Muhammed Jihad and whatever else that was said in that dumb movie :P

#35 Posted by Phished0ne (2497 posts) -
@Aeterna said:
" @Phished0ne said:
" @Aeterna said:
" @Al3xand3r said:
" Jihad doesn't necessarily mean war/suicide bombers/whatever other violence, you ( now) know. So, unless it's specified what kind of jihad is urged, and it is indeed Jihad of the Sword, it's a little hasty to claim they're doing something wrong by declaring such when their religious or other freedoms are affected. "
The thing is, a minaret has no religious value, it's just architecture. They're fooling themselves into thinking they've been affected. "
OH C'mon!  how much do you know about Islam?  how do you know a minaret has no religious value to them?  So i assume you think the crosses on spires of churches have no religious value, after all, its just architecture..what about stained glass?  also "just architecture". "
 I, myself don't know the details about it as I'm an atheist. But I have several colleagues who's entire families are muslims. We discussed about the subject for probably 2 to 3 hours when the topic was in the media over here right after the ban. None of them could find any reason at all as to how a minaret'd be a religious building. None of them could care for it at all, besides from finding it rather strange.  So... what was your point? "  
 
My point is that you really dont know what  your talking about....You said "Architecture cant have religious value" and i brought up 2 examples of pieces of architecture that have religious value.  Minarets are Mosque versions of church bells.  They are used for the "Call to prayer" much like church  bells are used to let people know when there is a service starting.  So obviously it does have some value to them.
#36 Posted by Aeterna (1117 posts) -
@Phished0ne said:
" @Aeterna said:
" @Phished0ne said:
" @Aeterna said:
" @Al3xand3r said:
" Jihad doesn't necessarily mean war/suicide bombers/whatever other violence, you ( now) know. So, unless it's specified what kind of jihad is urged, and it is indeed Jihad of the Sword, it's a little hasty to claim they're doing something wrong by declaring such when their religious or other freedoms are affected. "
The thing is, a minaret has no religious value, it's just architecture. They're fooling themselves into thinking they've been affected. "
OH C'mon!  how much do you know about Islam?  how do you know a minaret has no religious value to them?  So i assume you think the crosses on spires of churches have no religious value, after all, its just architecture..what about stained glass?  also "just architecture". "
 I, myself don't know the details about it as I'm an atheist. But I have several colleagues who's entire families are muslims. We discussed about the subject for probably 2 to 3 hours when the topic was in the media over here right after the ban. None of them could find any reason at all as to how a minaret'd be a religious building. None of them could care for it at all, besides from finding it rather strange.  So... what was your point? "  
 My point is that you really dont know what  your talking about....You said "Architecture cant have religious value" and i brought up 2 examples of pieces of architecture that have religious value.  Minarets are Mosque versions of church bells.  They are used for the "Call to prayer" much like church  bells are used to let people know when there is a service starting.  So obviously it does have some value to them. "
I didn't say that any architecture can't have religious value at all. Minarets are not a necessary part of the religion at all. It's something they do over there as part of the culture, not the religion. If it was the religion it'd be everywhere where the religion has spread. 
So it may hold some value to those people within that culture, but it's seperate from the religion itself. That's what I think you're misunderstanding.  
#37 Posted by Myrmidon (547 posts) -

Fuck Muslims. If the Swiss don't want them there, then they don't need to have them. It was a vote. They are like the fags on CSS who shout 'RTV PL0X' right after a voted map change because they don't like not getting their way.

#38 Posted by TheFreeMan (2712 posts) -

Shit sounds pretty damn ridiculous.

#39 Posted by Aaox (1657 posts) -

Hey, why don't we declare badass war on Islam? See how they like it?

#40 Posted by Alex_Murphy (1184 posts) -

They should save time and just make a list of the people they DON'T have a jihad against.

#41 Posted by Phished0ne (2497 posts) -
@Myrmidon said:
" Fuck Muslims. If the Swiss don't want them there, then they don't need to have them. It was a vote. They are like the fags on CSS who shout 'RTV PL0X' right after a voted map change because they don't like not getting their way. "
 
 I don't agree with organized religion, but shouldn't people be allowed to practice whatever religion they want, wherever they want?  In the end is ridiculous on  both sides though. 
 
 
@Aeterna said:
" @Phished0ne said:
" @Aeterna said:
" @Phished0ne said:
" @Aeterna said:
" @Al3xand3r said:
" Jihad doesn't necessarily mean war/suicide bombers/whatever other violence, you ( now) know. So, unless it's specified what kind of jihad is urged, and it is indeed Jihad of the Sword, it's a little hasty to claim they're doing something wrong by declaring such when their religious or other freedoms are affected. "
The thing is, a minaret has no religious value, it's just architecture. They're fooling themselves into thinking they've been affected. "
OH C'mon!  how much do you know about Islam?  how do you know a minaret has no religious value to them?  So i assume you think the crosses on spires of churches have no religious value, after all, its just architecture..what about stained glass?  also "just architecture". "
 I, myself don't know the details about it as I'm an atheist. But I have several colleagues who's entire families are muslims. We discussed about the subject for probably 2 to 3 hours when the topic was in the media over here right after the ban. None of them could find any reason at all as to how a minaret'd be a religious building. None of them could care for it at all, besides from finding it rather strange.  So... what was your point? "  
 My point is that you really dont know what  your talking about....You said "Architecture cant have religious value" and i brought up 2 examples of pieces of architecture that have religious value.  Minarets are Mosque versions of church bells.  They are used for the "Call to prayer" much like church  bells are used to let people know when there is a service starting.  So obviously it does have some value to them. "
I didn't say that any architecture can't have religious value at all. Minarets are not a necessary part of the religion at all. It's something they do over there as part of the culture, not the religion. If it was the religion it'd be everywhere where the religion has spread. So it may hold some value to those people within that culture, but it's seperate from the religion itself. That's what I think you're misunderstanding.   "
But is is everywhere the religion has spread, try to find a picture of a mosque without a minaret, its about as hard to find as a cathedral without stained glass. 
#42 Posted by jmrwacko (2443 posts) -
@WilliamRLBaker said:
" hmm maybe now the islamics can stop hating americans. "
this
#43 Posted by mracoon (4967 posts) -

I'm a Muslim and even I'm embarrassed by Libya but do people take Gaddafi seriously anymore? I thought everyone realised he was a joke years ago. Also the Swiss banning minarets is dumb, how is a piece of architecture offensive to anyone. I might not be Christian but I still like the design of churches and I don't find it a threat.

Moderator
#44 Posted by EternalInfinity0 (163 posts) -

Wow, I had no idea the Swiss were such idiots... why would the government let this happen?

#45 Posted by Karmum (11519 posts) -

Against the Swiss? Come on man, they live in the freakin' mountains. Their whole population will come out of the mountains and kill you.
 
And if you take the fight to them, you're even more fucked.

#46 Posted by addictedtopinescent (3645 posts) -

Declaring War on anyone is usually stupid 
Declaring ``holy war`` on anything is retarded     

#47 Posted by Hailinel (24395 posts) -
@mracoon said:
" I'm a Muslim and even I'm embarrassed by Libya but do people take Gaddafi seriously anymore? I thought everyone realised he was a joke years ago. Also the Swiss banning minarets is dumb, how is a piece of architecture offensive to anyone. I might not be Christian but I still like the design of churches and I don't find it a threat. "
It brings to mind a joke from an old Robin Williams stand-up routine.  "Colonel Gaddafi.  Sounds like the owner of a chain of terrorist chicken stores.  Come on down to Colonel Gaddafi's!  Come on down!"
#48 Posted by The_Ish (481 posts) -

This is not really that bad. The Libyan is the one at fault here.

#49 Edited by The_Ish (481 posts) -
@Aeterna said:

" @Phished0ne said:

" @Aeterna said:
" @Al3xand3r said:
" Jihad doesn't necessarily mean war/suicide bombers/whatever other violence, you ( now) know. So, unless it's specified what kind of jihad is urged, and it is indeed Jihad of the Sword, it's a little hasty to claim they're doing something wrong by declaring such when their religious or other freedoms are affected. "
The thing is, a minaret has no religious value, it's just architecture. They're fooling themselves into thinking they've been affected. "
OH C'mon!  how much do you know about Islam?  how do you know a minaret has no religious value to them?  So i assume you think the crosses on spires of churches have no religious value, after all, its just architecture..what about stained glass?  also "just architecture". "
 I, myself don't know the details about it as I'm an atheist. But I have several colleagues who's entire families are muslims. We discussed about the subject for probably 2 to 3 hours when the topic was in the media over here right after the ban. None of them could find any reason at all as to how a minaret'd be a religious building. None of them could care for it at all, besides from finding it rather strange.  So... what was your point? "
They are either ignorant on the matter, or they're lying, or they are being very roundabout about it
 
A minaret is a distinctively Islamic architectural feature of a mosque.
#50 Posted by CountRockula (398 posts) -

So with this jihad against the swiss, does this mean the Libyans will finally give up on chasing down Dr. Emmit Brown?