#1 Edited by TruthTellah (8534 posts) -

Today, following warnings that they would act if President Morsi did not appease millions of angry protesters, Egypt's military deposed him, dissolved the Egyptian constitution, and set the groundwork for the establishment of a new constitution and new elections.

Anti-Morsi Protestors projected laser lights on major buildings in Egypt telling him to leave office.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/03/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23173794

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/07/20137319828176718.html

The Head of Egypt's constitutional court will be the temporary president until a new constitution can be made and new elections occur. Mohammed Morsi had been the nation's first democratically-elected president, but concerns throughout the last year regarding his manipulation of the constitution and consolidation of power for himself and the Muslim Brotherhood pushed many to come out in large protests demanding for an end to his reign.

Unfortunately, the situation is a difficult one, as it is both hopeful and greatly concerning in various ways. There is considerable evidence that Morsi had abused his position and tried to run a faux-democracy; so, his removal is a welcome change. Yet, the military taking over brings up the chance that this might just happen again, with a constitution made, an election carried out, and then it all being dissolved shortly after. There is also growing evidence that the military is overreaching, with alarming news out of Egypt that they have stormed and arrested staff at multiple news agencies deemed "too pro Morsi", including the respected local branch of Al Jazeera during a live broadcast, rounded up the former president and his close staff, and issued arrest warrants for most of the Muslim Brotherhood political party in the Egyptian government.

Having seen the struggles of the Egyptian People to find a new way forward for their nation, it is very concerning to see the military possibly overreach yet again, as they did following the fall of Mubarak. They deserve better than more corrupt rule, and hopefully this will turn out better than their first attempt at establishing a new democracy in the nation. In their announcement of the new path forward, there was one hopeful sight. Where the military representative was alone in discussing the future following Mubarak, the military representative today was surrounded by a variety of Egyptian leaders, from the opposition to religious leaders and multiple political forces in the nation, as they discussed the future following Morsi. This brings some hope to the possibility that this time there might really be a coordinated effort to establish a coalition government.

I am aware that people around here have a variety of views on the world and political events such as this, and while I am hesitant regarding some of the more interesting perspectives some people have when it comes to events like this, I felt like this is an event worthy of discussion around here. I hope you might share your impressions and responses to this, and while some argument is to be expected, hopefully we can maintain a level of decorum regarding such an important event for the People of Egypt and the region.

So, what are your thoughts on the events unfolding in Egypt?

#2 Edited by crusader8463 (14413 posts) -

I do not follow the news; so yay if he was a bad guy and boo if he was a good guy I guess?

#3 Posted by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -

#4 Edited by Hailinel (23885 posts) -

I do not follow the news; so yay if he was a bad guy and boo if he was a good guy I guess?

That's the complicated part. The guy that they previously deposed, Hosni Mubarak, was an autocrat that rule Egypt for decades. He was forced out with the tide of the Arab Spring, and Egypt was finally allowed to elect a democratic government. After being elected president, Morsi was supposed to speed along the construction of the new government, but he was moving far too slow for the taste of many Egyptians. There were also religious tensions involved, as Morsi is staunchly supported by the Muslim Brotherhood. So in addition to his inability to stabilize the goverment and economy, there were some people that were afraid that Morsi was slowly turning Egypt into his own Islamic dictatorship (whether such was actually true or not). The military sided with the opposition protesters and ousted him from power.

So now back to square one in building their government from scratch. Whether Morsi deserved to be thrown out like Mubarak, it's hard to say. The two situations simply aren't comparable.

#5 Posted by Jay_Ray (1070 posts) -

The whole situation is so fucked up and since I am so far removed from anything related to Egypt that I simply can not have a proper opinion. But yeah, the pyramids are cool.

#6 Edited by crusader8463 (14413 posts) -

@hailinel: Ether way it sounds like times are a changin for that country.

#7 Posted by Jay_Ray (1070 posts) -

@hailinel: Ether way it sounds like times are a changin for that country.

One year ago this sentence would have been true also.

#8 Posted by Mento (2438 posts) -

I heard that Mursi's strong religious beliefs were also killing the tourism industry, since they involved banning booze and letting women walk around half-naked and the like. Can't imagine that taking a huge hit to tourism would've been too kind to the Egyptian economy.

Though yeah, far too detached from Egyptian politics to make any sort of informed opinion, though it's never smart to elect a fundamentalist into power. Arab Spring continues to be a hell of a thing I guess. I just hope all this destabilization doesn't cost too many people their livelihoods (or lives, for that matter).

Moderator
#9 Posted by TheHT (10880 posts) -

Attempt #2.

#10 Edited by golguin (3842 posts) -

It's my understanding that more Egyptians wanted Morsi gone than wanted him to stay. It's my understanding he was abusing his power. That's what I know. I don't live there so I wouldn't claim to know more than that on the issue.

#11 Edited by NegativeCero (2976 posts) -

I'm not entirely convinced that this won't end up getting worse. I guess I don't entirely trust the military to hand over power. At the very least I expect they'll delay handing it over like before Morsi officially took over.

That said, I have no impression of how he was governing other than a lot of people are pissed that he hasn't improved the economy and leans too heavily in his religious beliefs.

#12 Posted by bybeach (4725 posts) -

Islam is the problem for any new Middle East regime. Ultimately it sets up a 'God said so" and does not allow for the dictates of man. Egypt needs something so much more stable and secular than that simple-minded arrogance. God already rules from above, he gave us free will to hash it out...

#13 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5338 posts) -

Standard country in turmoil silliness, hopefully they can actually accept the democratically elected leader next time, even if the leader is subpar at least it sets the precedent for an accepted form of leadership. Alternatively an exceptionally benevolent dictator could take over in this chaos and lead the country/region to new heights; though early on democracy actually works okay it's only when there's an extended degree of establishment that it becomes nonsensical bipartisan bullshit.

#14 Edited by Dallas_Raines (2135 posts) -
@fredchuckdave said:

Standard country in turmoil silliness, hopefully they can actually accept the democratically elected leader next time, even if the leader is subpar at least it sets the precedent for an accepted form of leadership. Alternatively an exceptionally benevolent dictator could take over in this chaos and lead the country/region to new heights; though early on democracy actually works okay it's only when there's an extended degree of establishment that it becomes nonsensical bipartisan bullshit.

From what I've gathered on twitter and such, Morsi was essentially becoming a dictator, their constitution gave him almost unlimited power and made him basically un-impeachable. You can't really accept outright tyranny like that, it goes against the whole point of the revolution.

#15 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

Third time's the charm.

#17 Edited by Scampbell (490 posts) -

@bybeach said:

Islam is the problem for any new Middle East regime. Ultimately it sets up a 'God said so" and does not allow for the dictates of man. Egypt needs something so much more stable and secular than that simple-minded arrogance. God already rules from above, he gave us free will to hash it out...

Yes you could say Islam is a "God said so" or Law-based religion, just like Judaism. Of course Christianity have acted in the exactly the same way in most of its history, and still does. Law-based religion is just a term some Christians use to make themselves feel superior. There is no real evidence that Islam automatically leads to totalitarianism. Of course I don't see much value in any religion, but I respect a person's right to believe in whatever they want to, as long as they are not hurting anyone else or force their belief on others.

I do think Morsi was undermining the Egyptian Democracy, so in a way I condone the Coup but not the way they are persecuting supporters. I hope they will integrate legislation that prevents these anti-democratic laws into the new constitution.

#18 Posted by Levio (1783 posts) -

Eh, just keep trying until you get a good one. Better than getting stuck with President Bush for 8 years, right?

#19 Posted by Hailinel (23885 posts) -

@levio said:

Eh, just keep trying until you get a good one. Better than getting stuck with President Bush for 8 years, right?

That's actually pretty insulting to what the Egyptian people have gone through over the past several years. Bush may not have been popular, but his presidency and the Egyptian political situation are not comparable.

#20 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7050 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@levio said:

Eh, just keep trying until you get a good one. Better than getting stuck with President Bush for 8 years, right?

That's actually pretty insulting to what the Egyptian people have gone through over the past several years. Bush may not have been popular, but his presidency and the Egyptian political situation are not comparable.

Yeah. I hated the Bush Administration as much as the next guy but I don't recall Bush giving himself immunity from the laws of the Constitution and impeachment. There's also allegations that Morsi was acting as a puppet for the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood.

#21 Posted by AiurFlux (901 posts) -

This is incredibly dangerous for the region. You don't win here. If Morsi wasn't ousted then there would have been large scale riots, but because he was the Muslim Brotherhood is probably going to resort to acts of terrorism. You have Syria ready to explode, Iran doing whatever the fuck they want, Iraq still unstable, now Egypt is left up in the air. It's a powder keg and it's going to explode. We're looking at the building blocks of another world war in my opinion.

#22 Posted by golguin (3842 posts) -

@aiurflux said:

This is incredibly dangerous for the region. You don't win here. If Morsi wasn't ousted then there would have been large scale riots, but because he was the Muslim Brotherhood is probably going to resort to acts of terrorism. You have Syria ready to explode, Iran doing whatever the fuck they want, Iraq still unstable, now Egypt is left up in the air. It's a powder keg and it's going to explode. We're looking at the building blocks of another world war in my opinion.

World War because a few countries in the Middle Easy are unstable? How do you see that erupting into World War?

#23 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (2563 posts) -

#24 Posted by AiurFlux (901 posts) -

@golguin said:

@aiurflux said:

This is incredibly dangerous for the region. You don't win here. If Morsi wasn't ousted then there would have been large scale riots, but because he was the Muslim Brotherhood is probably going to resort to acts of terrorism. You have Syria ready to explode, Iran doing whatever the fuck they want, Iraq still unstable, now Egypt is left up in the air. It's a powder keg and it's going to explode. We're looking at the building blocks of another world war in my opinion.

World War because a few countries in the Middle Easy are unstable? How do you see that erupting into World War?

It's not just a few. Damn near the entire area is unstable. You have Pakistan and India ready to nuke the fuck out of one another. Taliban from Afghanistan encroaching into Pakistan. Iraq damn near on the brink of civil war. Syria in civil war. Palestine and Israel killing one another every month posturing up for war then backing off. Egypt tearing itself apart. Iran being crazy. Then multiple superpowers vying for control in the region that will get sucked into a regional conflict in one way or another.

How do you not see the potential for that to erupt into a World War? All it takes is one spark and somebody, probably Pakistan or India, is going to go off setting off a chain reaction.

I hope I'm wrong, but the world is fucked and it isn't getting better. I know there's a saying about things appearing to get worse when in actuality they're getting better... but I'm not seeing it to be honest.

#25 Edited by golguin (3842 posts) -

@aiurflux said:

@golguin said:

@aiurflux said:

This is incredibly dangerous for the region. You don't win here. If Morsi wasn't ousted then there would have been large scale riots, but because he was the Muslim Brotherhood is probably going to resort to acts of terrorism. You have Syria ready to explode, Iran doing whatever the fuck they want, Iraq still unstable, now Egypt is left up in the air. It's a powder keg and it's going to explode. We're looking at the building blocks of another world war in my opinion.

World War because a few countries in the Middle Easy are unstable? How do you see that erupting into World War?

It's not just a few. Damn near the entire area is unstable. You have Pakistan and India ready to nuke the fuck out of one another. Taliban from Afghanistan encroaching into Pakistan. Iraq damn near on the brink of civil war. Syria in civil war. Palestine and Israel killing one another every month posturing up for war then backing off. Egypt tearing itself apart. Iran being crazy. Then multiple superpowers vying for control in the region that will get sucked into a regional conflict in one way or another.

How do you not see the potential for that to erupt into a World War? All it takes is one spark and somebody, probably Pakistan or India, is going to go off setting off a chain reaction.

I hope I'm wrong, but the world is fucked and it isn't getting better. I know there's a saying about things appearing to get worse when in actuality they're getting better... but I'm not seeing it to be honest.

Because the instigators would be children compared to the world super powers? It's a different world today and war is only an option when there is money to be made. Countries and global corporations support wars because they make money by selling them weapons and supplies. How are countries getting involved in Syria or Egypt? Do you think everyone would be so "bleh" about the situation if they were countries that mattered?


EDIT: As an example did you miss the part where China bitch slapped North Korean into silence? South Korea is way too important to have North Korea playing toy soldiers.