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Posted by MonetaryDread (2177 posts) -

 Wow, Mac Defense Force comes out in full swing. I received a hateful PM in response to a comment I made about Mac's being more expensive than PC's and OS X sucking.  I wrote out a response but it ballooned to such a degree I decided to just put it into a blog post.
 
 My Reasoning for Why PC's are Better Than Mac's

 In the end it all comes down to preferences. Mac may be easier to use, but I would compare it to Photoshop Essentials. Yeah, it's easier to use and looks prettier, but in the end you are sacrificing usability and options. They are all style and no substance. You say that Mac's don't have viruses, but my dad had to take his Mac in for that very reason. My PC also since I built my last computer (something you can't do with a Mac) two years ago there hasn't been a single infection. On top of that, the only reason that viruses are more prevalent in PC's than Mac's isn't because of the OS, it is because OS X has around 5% of the market share. Now, before you start shouting, "but Mac's internet browser isn't connected to the registry, like a windows PC, you aren't able to receive a virus from no fault of your own." The problem with that reasoning is that hackers, crackers, and malware programmers do it for the challenge (or to get a job), so if the popularity roles were reversed you bet that Mac's would be just as plagued. Hell, I read on CNET a while back that at a hacking contest it was actually proven that Mac's were easier to hack than Vista, which is easier to hack than Windows 7.
On to cost. You say that if cost wasn't an issue Mac's would be more popular. In theory that might be true, but the reality is that Mac's aren't cheaper. They are significantly more expensive than a PC. A similar Mac to a PC is over double (and in some cases triple) the cost of a PC. Plus the design is to make things so complicated that you want to purchase a new Mac instead of upgrading when things get old. Even if you did want to just install a new video card (because you new $2000 computer has an ATI 4670 256mb video card that was worth $70 when it was released almost two years ago), like my dad did a month ago, is a hassle compared to it's PC counterpart.
Then there is the whole software component. Sure OS X has a better suite of free media tools that come packaged with the OS, I'll give you that one. Then again, they are all like Photoshop Elements. Dumbed down software that is all convenience and flash to the point where it becomes a hindrance if you are someone who actually knows what you are doing. In that case you are forced to purchase expensive software that is available on the PC as well, and it always runs just as well on a PC. Now before the defense force comes out again, I use Photoshop all the time, on both my Dad's mac and my own PC. The mac version looks nicer, but it has been proven time and again that the windows version just runs a lot faster than a Mac with the same spec'd hardware. That is because OS X has a lot more overhead, or essential programs running in the background. I have heard people say that the windows version crashes and is buggy, but I have been using the program since Photoshop 4 and I have never had the program crash on me (my own personal experience, but I look at it like my Xbox 360 - just because mine has never red ringed doesn't mean that others hasn't). 
Finally we come to the whole "Windows doesn't come with Microsoft word, PowerPoint and all that jazz," problem. Yeah, it's not on the disk right now, but Microsoft Office 2010 is free. You need to download it, but it is still free, and if you don't want to use it I can think of over two dozen free alternatives. Sure there are free alternatives on Mac as well, but it pales in comparison to the amount of free quality software on the PC. Plus, if you want to spend the money on software, you have the option.
I lied, there is a couple more things I want to point out. If you really think that Mac's are better try this for me. Open up Finder and try to cut and paste files or open a two-pane tree view of your folders. After that try to do a complete customization of your desktop theme (wallpaper, task-bar, wallpapers, fonts). Plus c'mon, the Apple Dock sucks, especially when compared to the convenience of files on a desktop.

#1 Posted by MonetaryDread (2177 posts) -

 Wow, Mac Defense Force comes out in full swing. I received a hateful PM in response to a comment I made about Mac's being more expensive than PC's and OS X sucking.  I wrote out a response but it ballooned to such a degree I decided to just put it into a blog post.
 
 My Reasoning for Why PC's are Better Than Mac's

 In the end it all comes down to preferences. Mac may be easier to use, but I would compare it to Photoshop Essentials. Yeah, it's easier to use and looks prettier, but in the end you are sacrificing usability and options. They are all style and no substance. You say that Mac's don't have viruses, but my dad had to take his Mac in for that very reason. My PC also since I built my last computer (something you can't do with a Mac) two years ago there hasn't been a single infection. On top of that, the only reason that viruses are more prevalent in PC's than Mac's isn't because of the OS, it is because OS X has around 5% of the market share. Now, before you start shouting, "but Mac's internet browser isn't connected to the registry, like a windows PC, you aren't able to receive a virus from no fault of your own." The problem with that reasoning is that hackers, crackers, and malware programmers do it for the challenge (or to get a job), so if the popularity roles were reversed you bet that Mac's would be just as plagued. Hell, I read on CNET a while back that at a hacking contest it was actually proven that Mac's were easier to hack than Vista, which is easier to hack than Windows 7.
On to cost. You say that if cost wasn't an issue Mac's would be more popular. In theory that might be true, but the reality is that Mac's aren't cheaper. They are significantly more expensive than a PC. A similar Mac to a PC is over double (and in some cases triple) the cost of a PC. Plus the design is to make things so complicated that you want to purchase a new Mac instead of upgrading when things get old. Even if you did want to just install a new video card (because you new $2000 computer has an ATI 4670 256mb video card that was worth $70 when it was released almost two years ago), like my dad did a month ago, is a hassle compared to it's PC counterpart.
Then there is the whole software component. Sure OS X has a better suite of free media tools that come packaged with the OS, I'll give you that one. Then again, they are all like Photoshop Elements. Dumbed down software that is all convenience and flash to the point where it becomes a hindrance if you are someone who actually knows what you are doing. In that case you are forced to purchase expensive software that is available on the PC as well, and it always runs just as well on a PC. Now before the defense force comes out again, I use Photoshop all the time, on both my Dad's mac and my own PC. The mac version looks nicer, but it has been proven time and again that the windows version just runs a lot faster than a Mac with the same spec'd hardware. That is because OS X has a lot more overhead, or essential programs running in the background. I have heard people say that the windows version crashes and is buggy, but I have been using the program since Photoshop 4 and I have never had the program crash on me (my own personal experience, but I look at it like my Xbox 360 - just because mine has never red ringed doesn't mean that others hasn't). 
Finally we come to the whole "Windows doesn't come with Microsoft word, PowerPoint and all that jazz," problem. Yeah, it's not on the disk right now, but Microsoft Office 2010 is free. You need to download it, but it is still free, and if you don't want to use it I can think of over two dozen free alternatives. Sure there are free alternatives on Mac as well, but it pales in comparison to the amount of free quality software on the PC. Plus, if you want to spend the money on software, you have the option.
I lied, there is a couple more things I want to point out. If you really think that Mac's are better try this for me. Open up Finder and try to cut and paste files or open a two-pane tree view of your folders. After that try to do a complete customization of your desktop theme (wallpaper, task-bar, wallpapers, fonts). Plus c'mon, the Apple Dock sucks, especially when compared to the convenience of files on a desktop.

#2 Posted by sodiumCyclops (2644 posts) -

Apple users are so cool they won't even read that wall-o-text.

#3 Edited by apertura (196 posts) -

What?  
 
EDIT: I guess PC users have problems with paragraphing.

#4 Posted by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

There is no actual advantage of a mac over a pc. You might say viruses, however even my ps3 online browser doesn't get viruses, that means nothing. Any advantage is percieved by mac propaganda no normal pc gamer can understand.

#5 Posted by Mono_Listo (428 posts) -

PC
A. Cost
B. Software
C. Ease and cost of repair and/or upgrade
 
In regards to UI and usability, you can pretty much emulate the experience in Windows or Linux if you want.

#6 Posted by apertura (196 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:
"

There is no actual advantage of a mac over a pc. You might say viruses, however even my ps3 online browser doesn't get viruses, that means nothing. Any advantage is percieved by mac propaganda no normal pc gamer can understand.

"
There are many advantages to Macs. Why do you think almost all professional movie studios, photo studios, designers and journalists (Giant Bomb comes to mind) use Macs? They are stable and easy to use.  They are, relative to their hardware and contrary to popular belief, fast. OS X is designed in a smart way. Let's take an example. To watch a video or view a picture on your desktop, you don't have to open any program. No Picture Viewer, not VLC, not Windows Media Player, not Quicktime. You just click the file once to select it and press the space bar. No program is started, there is no wait (you can see Jeff doing this in the Mortal Kombat office discussion). Keep in mind, this is just and example.  
 
 
Macs are pricy, although partially because it's a trendy brand, but because of the engineering that goes into making them. I will say once again, they are not dumbed down computers. The engineering of the cases and screens is beyond any $499 Dell laptop. Apple makes the best screens (excluding the $7000 printing factory screens). They are expensive to make. The multi-touch glass trackpad is expensive to make. The body, which on the MacBook Pro's and the enormous 27" iMac are all one piece. They are expensive to make. 
 
 
Of course, there are advantages to PCs. You can get a terrific gaming computer for the same price as a $2699 Mac (although the power bill you will get from the gaming PC will have a scary amount of digits).  
  
It all comes down the personal preference. I choose Macs as the computer I use for everything but the occasional PC gaming.
#7 Edited by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -
@apertura: 90% of the market is windows and don't you justify yourself to me about preference, i'm one of the biggest pc gamers on the site. I feel indifferent and indifferent to valve's decision to let you play our games. 90% of the entire world and their operating system sides with me. I'm the last one anyone here should even reply to about this particular topic, the last one.  
 
I honestly don't give a shit about opening stuff, that's normal to me and every other pc user in the world as a standard. You try playing pc games on a mac through steam and tell me it's the smartest way or most efficient or effective since everyone says it's not. I don't want to buy a new imac when I need to upgrade. I am using a 40" hdtv as a monitor, don't justify yourself to me. Also compatibility, something macs aren't known for, only they are known for big icons and shiny features that does nothing for me. If I need that, then i'll just upgraded to windows 7 if I care, which I don't.
 
If any mac users wants to reply to me, maybe think twice about it because i'm a total windows and pc user and a pc gamer. Nothing about what the osx can do appeals to me on any level. I can edit things in photoshop, adobe premiere, which has compatiblity issues with osx. What, windows can't create sites? (see what I said, a perceived advantage by mac propaganda, that's what I mean, not a real advantage, rather perceived) I argued with mac users before, I've done my homework I know your weaknesses well and it will be a long arguement that I don't want to be a part of. I'm only acknowleding a mac because gabe newell decided to let you play our games and every mac users complains about how it's slow. Sorry your macs are totally opposite to everything I understand and I won't take a mac if someone gave me the best one in the world for free. I'll sell it, however I won't use it. I don't dislike the iphone or ipod, only the imac. We can do everything you can do but better and with more compatibility. Don't think for a second your imacs are worth it, having the same parts as pc tripling the price, it really makes no sense to me, yet you can only use certain gpus on it.
 
There is a reason why all mac users will dual boot windows through boot camp and why no windows users in their right minds will ever dual boot osx, they don't like to downgrade to an irrational brand with compatibility issues. The fact ppl are dual booting windows is because their macs can't do everything, yet windows can do everything.
#8 Posted by armaan8014 (5448 posts) -
@sodiumCyclops said:
" Apple users are so cool they won't even read that wall-o-text. "
lol
#9 Posted by Jaqen_HGhar (963 posts) -

I think you are spot on. My reasons for why PCs are better than Macs are a bit simpler. 
 
I have absolutely no need to use or even touch a Mac. They are useless to me. My PC can do everything it can, and more, so why the hell would I pay out my ass for something that only costs that much because of its name? This goes for every Apple product really.

#10 Posted by mubblegum (250 posts) -

I own both because I use them for different things. My main reason for getting a Mac initially was because I was doing a photography degree and the software was all much more compatible with the ones at the university, to save any file issues. Now it's become my most used one as it's very simple, seamless and I don't have any blue screens anymore - however the battery is dying. 
Now that my Mac is capable of gaming, I'm even more psyched and only drag my blue-screening Alienware out when I want more RAM-heavy games or ones not available on OSX.

#11 Edited by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@apertura said:

" @HitmanAgent47 said:

"

There is no actual advantage of a mac over a pc. You might say viruses, however even my ps3 online browser doesn't get viruses, that means nothing. Any advantage is percieved by mac propaganda no normal pc gamer can understand.

"
There are many advantages to Macs. Why do you think almost all professional movie studios, photo studios, designers and journalists (Giant Bomb comes to mind) use Macs? They are stable and easy to use.  They are, relative to their hardware and contrary to popular belief, fast. OS X is designed in a smart way. Let's take an example. To watch a video or view a picture on your desktop, you don't have to open any program. No Picture Viewer, not VLC, not Windows Media Player, not Quicktime. You just click the file once to select it and press the space bar. No program is started, there is no wait (you can see Jeff doing this in the Mortal Kombat office discussion). Keep in mind, this is just and example.    Macs are pricy, although partially because it's a trendy brand, but because of the engineering that goes into making them. I will say once again, they are not dumbed down computers. The engineering of the cases and screens is beyond any $499 Dell laptop. Apple makes the best screens (excluding the $7000 printing factory screens). They are expensive to make. The multi-touch glass trackpad is expensive to make. The body, which on the MacBook Pro's and the enormous 27" iMac are all one piece. They are expensive to make.   Of course, there are advantages to PCs. You can get a terrific gaming computer for the same price as a $2699 Mac (although the power bill you will get from the gaming PC will have a scary amount of digits).    It all comes down the personal preference. I choose Macs as the computer I use for everything but the occasional PC gaming. "
1.  You're talking as if this is 1990. Twenty years have passed since Macs held the lead in any professional production capacity. Pro shops don't use macs much anymore and what the GB (and their Whiskey affiliates) journalists choose to use doesn't reflect the industry.  Most movie and TV studios use Kinetix Flame, Flint, Combustion and so on PC built production boxes.  Final Cut Pro and Premiere are both available on PC and are used on that platform far more so than on Mac.  The same goes for Photoshop and After Effects (which are now primarily developed on PC for PC, the Bonjour and MDNSResponder portions are for Mac interoperability based on x86 and x86_64 UNIVERSAL binaries because Adobe no longer make Mac Only destination products and haven't for a long time).  Audio Production hasn't been an Apple strong suit for a long time too, almost all professional grade Pro Tools studio installations are built around Windows PCs and Apple's purchasing of Emagic didn't increase LOGIC's sales, it actually decreased sales of the product to the point where it fell from Number 1 to Number 12 within 18 months of the buyout.  That's not say that Logic 7 and upwards aren't used by professionals but it is to say that aren't using it in the numbers they once did. Publishing houses primarily use PC because, in terms of colour separation, Windows offers far more selections of WYSIWG colour palletes aside from Apple having only ever licensed PANTONE.  The best photo editing and screen printing monitors are made by a variety of companies, are usually still CRTs or sometimes extremely high end DLP LCD but none of them are made by Apple.  In fact, Apple's 7K LCD is a an EZIO licensed product.  Apple don't make shit.  Oh wait, yes they do.  They make rebranded stuff, charge a premium for FROG DESIGNS engineers to make it look good and then release it as if it's god's gift to computing when in reality it's nothing more than any other OEMed product. 
 
2. What you're describing does use those programs to show those pictures, it's just piped output via xml through the UI.  My Linux installation can do the same thing.  Big Deal.  That's not worth the 500% markup.
#12 Posted by bellmont42 (325 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:
" @apertura: 90% of the market is windows and don't you justify yourself to me about preference, i'm one of the biggest pc gamers on the site. I feel indifferent and indifferent to valve's decision to let you play our games. 90% of the entire world and their operating system sides with me. I'm the last one anyone here should even reply to about this particular topic, the last one.   I honestly don't give a shit about opening stuff, that's normal to me and every other pc user in the world as a standard. You try playing pc games on a mac through steam and tell me it's the smartest way or most efficient or effective since everyone says it's not. I don't want to buy a new imac when I need to upgrade. I am using a 40" hdtv as a monitor, don't justify yourself to me. Also compatibility, something macs aren't known for, only they are known for big icons and shiny features that does nothing for me. If I need that, then i'll just upgraded to windows 7 if I care, which I don't.  If any mac users wants to reply to me, maybe think twice about it because i'm a total windows and pc user and a pc gamer. Nothing about what the osx can do appeals to me on any level. I can edit things in photoshop, adobe premiere, which has compatiblity issues with osx. What windows can't create sites? (see what I said, a perceived advantage by mac propaganda, that's what I mean, not a real advantage, rather perceived) I argued with mac users before, I've done my homework I know your weaknesses well and it will be a long arguement that I don't want to be a part of. I'm only acknowleding a mac because gabe newell decided to let you play our games and every mac users complains about how it's slow. Sorry your macs are totally opposite to everything I understand and I won't take a mac if someone gave me the best one in the world for free. I'll sell it, however I won't use it. I don't dislike the iphone or ipod, only the imac. We can do everything you can do but better and with more compatibility.   There is a reason why all mac users will dual boot windows through boot camp and why no windows users in their right minds will ever dual boot osx, they don't like to downgrade to an irrational brand with compatibility issues. The fact ppl are dual booting windows is because their macs can't do everything. "
lol
#13 Posted by gunslingerNZ (1928 posts) -
@Durandir said:
" I think you are spot on. My reasons for why PCs are better than Macs are a bit simpler.  I have absolutely no need to use or even touch a Mac. They are useless to me. My PC can do everything it can, and more, so why the hell would I pay out my ass for something that only costs that much because of its name? This goes for every Apple product really. "
#14 Edited by RE_Player1 (7526 posts) -

They are both good.... I have an iMac at home and a gateway laptop for school. I love my situation as I have the best of both worlds. 

#15 Posted by Dipstick (546 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow: Don't feed the troll ;)
#16 Edited by apertura (196 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:

" @apertura: 90% of the market is windows and don't you justify yourself to me about preference, i'm one of the biggest pc gamers on the site. I feel indifferent and indifferent to valve's decision to let you play our games. 90% of the entire world and their operating system sides with me. I'm the last one anyone here should even reply to about this particular topic, the last one.   I honestly don't give a shit about opening stuff, that's normal to me and every other pc user in the world as a standard. You try playing pc games on a mac through steam and tell me it's the smartest way or most efficient or effective since everyone says it's not. I don't want to buy a new imac when I need to upgrade. I am using a 40" hdtv as a monitor, don't justify yourself to me. Also compatibility, something macs aren't known for, only they are known for big icons and shiny features that does nothing for me. If I need that, then i'll just upgraded to windows 7 if I care, which I don't.  If any mac users wants to reply to me, maybe think twice about it because i'm a total windows and pc user and a pc gamer. Nothing about what the osx can do appeals to me on any level. I can edit things in photoshop, adobe premiere, which has compatiblity issues with osx. What, windows can't create sites? (see what I said, a perceived advantage by mac propaganda, that's what I mean, not a real advantage, rather perceived) I argued with mac users before, I've done my homework I know your weaknesses well and it will be a long arguement that I don't want to be a part of. I'm only acknowleding a mac because gabe newell decided to let you play our games and every mac users complains about how it's slow. Sorry your macs are totally opposite to everything I understand and I won't take a mac if someone gave me the best one in the world for free. I'll sell it, however I won't use it. I don't dislike the iphone or ipod, only the imac. We can do everything you can do but better and with more compatibility. Don't think for a second your imacs are worth it, having the same parts as pc tripling the price, it really makes no sense to me, yet you can only use certain gpus on it.  There is a reason why all mac users will dual boot windows through boot camp and why no windows users in their right minds will ever dual boot osx, they don't like to downgrade to an irrational brand with compatibility issues. The fact ppl are dual booting windows is because their macs can't do everything. "

Your argument has so many flaws, it's hilarious. "Don't justify yourself"? Where am I attempting to justify myself? You speak with such arrogance, as if one has to seek audience in order to talk to you. You come across as an elitist idiot. I was mentioning simple things and the perks and advantages of OS X, I wasn't trying to convert you into using Macs. Also, where the hell did I mention that I play Steam games on a Mac? I think you should get an eye exam, or you need to learn to read better. I even explicitly mentioned in my last paragraph that I do all my computer gaming on PCs (apart from WoW). You are replying to things you think I have said, but I haven't. It makes your arrogance look even dumber. You mention that Photoshop and the like have compatibility problems with OS X, which is pure horseshit. You read into things which aren't there. That's a bad habit, and I suggest you ditch it.
 
Do you think anyone gives a shit if you are "one of the biggest PC gamers of the site, SO THINK TWICE BEFORE REPLYING TO ME!! I'M DANGEROUS!"?  
It doesn't make you look like a badass or make you better than anyone else - quite the opposite. And holy shit, you are acknowledging Macs users, only because Gabe Newell did this and that? I feel so honored! (no, I don't)   
 
 
Your only argument is that games don't run good on Macs. Of course they don't, Macs aren't made for gaming. Apart from that, your arguments are largely ignorant. 
I like PCs. They are damn good for playing games. But for everything else, I use Macs. I like how they work, how they looks and how they run more. This makes their price worth it to me. I don't understand why you feel the need to say "don't for one second think your iMac is worth it!". Do you know what I feel is worth putting my money into? No, you don't. You're not the one who decides that. I am. 
 
In the end, it all comes down to personal preference, and HitmanAgent47 doesn't seem to know what that is. 
#17 Posted by Vinchenzo (6192 posts) -

Anybody on a gaming website will know why a PC is better than a Mac.

#18 Posted by qlum (33 posts) -

apple sucks and so does osx and icrap.
you can't game on a mac excluding some valve and blizzard ports.
 also you cand change parts individual/upgrade they are more expensive than a home build one.

#19 Edited by DCFGS3 (1054 posts) -

Yeah but-but-but-but Macs are shiny!!!! And they're so easy to use when you're down at Starbucks writing your novel, and with the new Macbook air, it's so thin it goes with my jeans! And using photobooth, well, I hardly need to mention how handy it is when you need to re-straighten your fringe on-the-go (and I'm 'on-the-go' so much, between collecting the groceries for my organic vegan dinner and protesting against the war/Government/Fast food companies/corporate fat cats/rich white people/pop-culture-which-suffocates-my-alternative-indy-music-tastes-that-are-in-no-way-mainstream-at-all). 
 
Really why would you want to be so mainstream and have a PC?

#20 Posted by Mono_Listo (428 posts) -
@apertura: 
 
1. Mac hasn't been an industry leader in years. I used to be a system support specialist for a major camera and printing company, about six years ago. Even back then Windows had gained dominance. As far as film and animation is concerned, Apple is barely a blip on the radar.
 
2. Macs are just stock x86 hardware, they're not "dumbed down PCs", they're just PCs with Mac installed on them and the price jacked up to absurd levels
 
3. Those displays are OEM. Like just about all of the hardware Apple uses for their desktops and laptops, they can be found in other products.
#21 Posted by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -
@apertura: Whatever you say, keep telling yourself I made no points because you don't accept them. My main point is 90% of the market is pc, we don't need to explain ourselves to you. We have all the compatibility, power, performance and market shares. I'm surprised how the world is so unconvinced, so keep listening to the propaganda of macs. My point is 90% of the preference is pc and windows, lol at your point about perference. Hey if I want to spend more than $4500, to get an operating system that needs windows to dual boot, that can only use a hd4850 at most or whatever it is now with a monitor and rig that isn't upgradable to tell myself these mac programs are suppose to work better with a flashy interface and icons, paying mostly for an apple logo, with a lack of compatibility unless I dual boot osx, then maybe i'll get a mac.  
 
#22 Posted by Termite (2398 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:
" @apertura: 90% of the market is windows and don't you justify yourself to me about preference, i'm one of the biggest pc gamers on the site. I feel indifferent and indifferent to valve's decision to let you play our games. 90% of the entire world and their operating system sides with me. I'm the last one anyone here should even reply to about this particular topic, the last one.   I honestly don't give a shit about opening stuff, that's normal to me and every other pc user in the world as a standard. You try playing pc games on a mac through steam and tell me it's the smartest way or most efficient or effective since everyone says it's not. I don't want to buy a new imac when I need to upgrade. I am using a 40" hdtv as a monitor, don't justify yourself to me. Also compatibility, something macs aren't known for, only they are known for big icons and shiny features that does nothing for me. If I need that, then i'll just upgraded to windows 7 if I care, which I don't.  If any mac users wants to reply to me, maybe think twice about it because i'm a total windows and pc user and a pc gamer. Nothing about what the osx can do appeals to me on any level. I can edit things in photoshop, adobe premiere, which has compatiblity issues with osx. What, windows can't create sites? (see what I said, a perceived advantage by mac propaganda, that's what I mean, not a real advantage, rather perceived) I argued with mac users before, I've done my homework I know your weaknesses well and it will be a long arguement that I don't want to be a part of. I'm only acknowleding a mac because gabe newell decided to let you play our games and every mac users complains about how it's slow. Sorry your macs are totally opposite to everything I understand and I won't take a mac if someone gave me the best one in the world for free. I'll sell it, however I won't use it. I don't dislike the iphone or ipod, only the imac. We can do everything you can do but better and with more compatibility. Don't think for a second your imacs are worth it, having the same parts as pc tripling the price, it really makes no sense to me, yet you can only use certain gpus on it.  There is a reason why all mac users will dual boot windows through boot camp and why no windows users in their right minds will ever dual boot osx, they don't like to downgrade to an irrational brand with compatibility issues. The fact ppl are dual booting windows is because their macs can't do everything, yet windows can do everything. "
That's right brother! PC Power for life! Wait while I get a picture of a mac burning in a fire tattooed on my chest. 
 
All of you Mac users out there, beware. I know your game and if you get anywhere near me I swear I will throw down the GAUNTLET. Don't justify yourself to me! I have learned all of your stinking weaknesses and I am immune to your propaganda. Me and my PC brothers can do everything you Mac users can do but better. We are perfection. Windows can do everything. Want to convert those nasty TARGA files to JPEGs? We've got your back. Back itchy? Yeah, we've got that covered. Is your hair on fire? The pure, unadulterated power shower that is Windows will douse you in super-cooled, liquid OS goodness. 
 
Seriously HitmanAgent, calm down.
#23 Posted by apertura (196 posts) -
@DCFGS3 said:
" Yeah but-but-but-but Macs are shiny!!!! And they're so easy to use when you're down at Starbucks writing your novel, and with the new Macbook air, it's so thin it goes with my jeans! And using photobooth, well, I hardly need to mention how handy it is when you need to re-straighten your fringe on-the-go (and I'm 'on-the-go' so much, between collecting the groceries for my organic vegan dinner and protesting against the war/Government/Fast food companies/corporate fat cats/rich white people/pop-culture-which-suffocates-my-alternative-indy-music-tastes-that-are-in-no-way-mainstream-at-all) "
And all PC users are ugly, pimply faced, hunchback forever virgins who live in their basements and masturbate to anime and Nvidias latest graphics card update! I know this is true.
 
See, I can generalize too.
#24 Edited by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

@apertura: Macs are all feminine, hip trendy, metrosexuals, hangs around starbucks with their imacs college students when no one cares. I can generalize too with their overpriced, underpowered rigs.

 

Oh wait, someone else mentioned starbucks too? Lol.

#25 Posted by Termite (2398 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:
" @apertura: Macs are all feminine, hip trendy, metrosexuals, hangs around starbucks with their imacs when no one cares. I can generalize too. "
You just replied to somebody who was replying to somebody else making generalizations about macs with the same generalizations, and the sad part is I think you thought you had something there.
#26 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow:You just owned that guy.
#27 Edited by ShiftyMagician (2133 posts) -
@apertura said:

" @HitmanAgent47 said:

"

There is no actual advantage of a mac over a pc. You might say viruses, however even my ps3 online browser doesn't get viruses, that means nothing. Any advantage is percieved by mac propaganda no normal pc gamer can understand.

"
There are many advantages to Macs. Why do you think almost all professional movie studios, photo studios, designers and journalists (Giant Bomb comes to mind) use Macs? They are stable and easy to use.  They are, relative to their hardware and contrary to popular belief, fast. OS X is designed in a smart way. Let's take an example. To watch a video or view a picture on your desktop, you don't have to open any program.
I'm sorry, but even though I understand what you are trying to say, I stopped right there, as you need to run a program in order to view or edit any file.  It's just that there isn't any actual names associated with the programs used in a Mac that allows you to view programs.  This just means that all of what you need is already covered via Apple with first-party programs installed with the OS, which is all fine and good.
 
But saying that you don't need a program to run a file?  Please educate yourself further in how software works.  Mac's use programs, just like any other OS.
 
ON-TOPIC: My opinion on this matter is that you cannot truly state which platform is better in the usual sense, as finding which is better is a subjective question that differs to each person.  I know many people that prefer a mac, because they do not go beyond basic functionality needs such as e-mail, internet access, and image and video viewers.  
 
However if you ask which is the platform with the most hardware flexibility, or which one will perform the most, then it is the PC no question.  The most expensive Mac's have some pretty solid hardware specs, however they are no match to hand-picked top quality parts assembled in a case of the user's choice, with allowable space to add liquid cooling for better performance and to regulate temperatures better.  Of course, they will end up being more expensive in isolated cases, but this makes sense as you are purchasing different sets of parts that are not on offer by Apple.  Even then, if you were aiming for top performance, cost is a non-issue, so PC is the way to go at that point.  
 
Apple is aiming at mainstream demographics, and aren't really worried about servicing heavy-duty specific crowds with the parts they need.  PC's and the ability to customise them at any time in almost any way has all bases covered and more, but are unfortunately downplayed by the public nowadays as the process of building a new computer is falsely seen as a difficult task.
#28 Posted by apertura (196 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:
" @apertura: Whatever you say, keep telling yourself I made no points because you don't accept them. My main point is 90% of the market is pc, we don't need to explain ourselves to you. We have all the compatibility, power, performance and market shares. I'm surprised how the world is so unconvinced, so keep listening to the propaganda of macs. My point is 90% of the preference is pc and windows, lol at your point about perference. Hey if I want to spend more than $4500, to get an operating system that needs windows to dual boot, that can only use a hd4850 at most or whatever it is now with a monitor and rig that isn't upgradable to tell myself these mac programs are suppose to work better with a flashy interface and icons, paying mostly for an apple logo, with a lack of compatibility unless I dual boot osx, then maybe i'll get a mac.    "
Further proof that you don't know what personal preference is, and that your opinion and only your opinion is the right one! You shake of all my points with "whatever lol". I think it's hilarious. 90% of the market share means you don't need any arguments! Well, I guess you're all set, since you seem to lack them all. Except, of course, that Macs don't do gaming very well, which can easily be explained by the fact that they aren't build for gaming, but hey, your computer has 90% of the market share, you don't need to explain yourself. Fuck facts, 90%! 
 
It's hilarious!
#29 Edited by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -
http://www.spike.com/blog/top-10-worst-types/74309?page=2&numPerPage=1 
 
Read who are the worst fanboys and try to understand the situation better. Besides your perference is irrelevent, if your not a celebrity, site owner, using it for media, a pc gamer, it makes absolutly no sense to own a mac. Unless you think it's fabulous by all the flashy icons and the trendy apple logo using your apple products at starbucks. Some of us cares more about value, power, gaming, compatibility and functionality.
 

2. PC Snob

The PC Snob is the diametric opposite of (and a response to) the Mac fanboy. They didn't even know that they were PC fanboys until the Mac creeps decided to make a big deal out of it. Now they spend most of their time talking about all the free programs and shareware you can only get on a personal computer, or how real-time strategy games and first-person shooters  should only be played with a mouse and keyboard. Most of their time isn’t spent raising the PC up on a pedestal – it’s pretty much market saturated. Rather, their forum time is spent comparing and contrasting PCs with their mortal enemies, the Macs.   Generally this is accomplished with a heavy-handed flame war.

Forum Battle Cry: Kombatibility is King 

1. Mac Fanboys

 

Ugh.   Mac fanboys are the worst of the worst. I mean I hate iPhonephiles, but the Mac fanboy encompasses them and takes the dogma to a whole new, awful level.   Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have anything against Apple.   I like their design aesthetic, and their devices work well, but just cause I eat at Burger King doesn’t mean I don’t want to get a Frostee from Wendy’s every now and again. Mac fanboys foolishly believe that any art-related program runs better on their machine and that they will never get a virus. At least they're willing to play a video game console every once in a while. They don't really have a choice since there aren't many games for Macs. Maybe it’s the cult of soon-to-be-martyred Steve Jobs, but something is causing this clique to be the most grating on the interwebz. .  

Forum Battle Cry: I’m a Mac (uttered dismissively with a raised eyebrow)     

#30 Posted by apertura (196 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:
" http://www.spike.com/blog/top-10-worst-types/74309?page=2&numPerPage=1 
 
Read who are the worst fanboys and try to understand the situation better.  
 

2. PC Snob

The PC Snob is the diametric opposite of (and a response to) the Mac fanboy. They didn't even know that they were PC fanboys until the Mac creeps decided to make a big deal out of it. Now they spend most of their time talking about all the free programs and shareware you can only get on a personal computer, or how real-time strategy games and first-person shooters  should only be played with a mouse and keyboard. Most of their time isn’t spent raising the PC up on a pedestal – it’s pretty much market saturated. Rather, their forum time is spent comparing and contrasting PCs with their mortal enemies, the Macs.   Generally this is accomplished with a heavy-handed flame war.

Forum Battle Cry: Kombatibility is King 

1. Mac Fanboys

 

Ugh.   Mac fanboys are the worst of the worst. I mean I hate iPhonephiles, but the Mac fanboy encompasses them and takes the dogma to a whole new, awful level.   Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have anything against Apple.   I like their design aesthetic, and their devices work well, but just cause I eat at Burger King doesn’t mean I don’t want to get a Frostee from Wendy’s every now and again. Mac fanboys foolishly believe that any art-related program runs better on their machine and that they will never get a virus. At least they're willing to play a video game console every once in a while. They don't really have a choice since there aren't many games for Macs. Maybe it’s the cult of soon-to-be-martyred Steve Jobs, but something is causing this clique to be the most grating on the interwebz. .  

Forum Battle Cry: I’m a Mac (uttered dismissively with a raised eyebrow)     

"
Ah yes, Spike! The most credible of all credible websites!  
 
90% MOTHERFUCKER!
#31 Edited by illmatic19 (964 posts) -
@apertura:  Whats more funny is that its not even made by a staff member at Spike. Just some dude from the Spike community. Very credible.
#32 Posted by ElusiveCamel (21 posts) -

@DCFGS3 said:

"Yeah but-but-but-but Macs are shiny!!!! And they're so easy to use when you're down at Starbucks writing your novel, and with the new Macbook air, it's so thin it goes with my jeans! And using photobooth, well, I hardly need to mention how handy it is when you need to re-straighten your fringe on-the-go (and I'm 'on-the-go' so much, between collecting the groceries for my organic vegan dinner and protesting against the war/Government/Fast food companies/corporate fat cats/rich white people/pop-culture-which-suffocates-my-alternative-indy-music-tastes-that-are-in-no-way-mainstream-at-all). 
 
Really why would you want to be so mainstream and have a PC? " 
 
Hahaha, love it 
 

@SeriouslyNow
said:
1.  You're talking as if this is 1990. Twenty years have passed since Macs held the lead in any professional production capacity. Pro shops don't use macs much anymore and what the GB (and their Whiskey affiliates) journalists choose to use doesn't reflect the industry.  Most movie and TV studios use Kinetix Flame, Flint, Combustion and so on PC built production boxes.  Final Cut Pro and Premiere are both available on PC and are used on that platform far more so than on Mac.  The same goes for Photoshop and After Effects (which are now primarily developed on PC for PC, the Bonjour and MDNSResponder portions are for Mac interoperability based on x86 and x86_64 UNIVERSAL binaries because Adobe no longer make Mac Only destination products and haven't for a long time).  Audio Production hasn't been an Apple strong suit for a long time too, almost all professional grade Pro Tools studio installations are built around Windows PCs and Apple's purchasing of Emagic didn't increase LOGIC's sales, it actually decreased sales of the product to the point where it fell from Number 1 to Number 12 within 18 months of the buyout.  That's not say that Logic 7 and upwards aren't used by professionals but it is to say that aren't using it in the numbers they once did. Publishing houses primarily use PC because, in terms of colour separation, Windows offers far more selections of WYSIWG colour palletes aside from Apple having only ever licensed PANTONE.  The best photo editing and screen printing monitors are made by a variety of companies, are usually still CRTs or sometimes extremely high end DLP LCD but none of them are made by Apple.  In fact, Apple's 7K LCD is a an EZIO licensed product.  Apple don't make shit.  Oh wait, yes they do.  They make rebranded stuff, charge a premium for FROG DESIGNS engineers to make it look good and then release it as if it's god's gift to computing when in reality it's nothing more than any other OEMed product.    
2. What you're describing does use those programs to show those pictures, it's just piped output via xml through the UI.  My Linux installation can do the same thing.  Big Deal.  That's not worth the 500% markup. "

I have no idea what you said, but you used a lot of figures and abbreviations so I'm going to assume you know what you're saying and agree. Macs got told. 
 
#33 Edited by Ineedaname (4319 posts) -

I didn't want to comment, but it's been one of those things, and sat here browsing just makes me want to. 
Apertura, why do you omit everyone's comments whilst replying, apart from Hitman's, you say Hitman's argument is flawed, but don't bother commenting against the others presented.

#34 Posted by ElusiveCamel (21 posts) -

@SeriouslyNow said:

1.  You're talking as if this is 1990. Twenty years have passed since Macs held the lead in any professional production capacity. Pro shops don't use macs much anymore and what the GB (and their Whiskey affiliates) journalists choose to use doesn't reflect the industry.  Most movie and TV studios use Kinetix Flame, Flint, Combustion and so on PC built production boxes.  Final Cut Pro and Premiere are both available on PC and are used on that platform far more so than on Mac.  The same goes for Photoshop and After Effects (which are now primarily developed on PC for PC, the Bonjour and MDNSResponder portions are for Mac interoperability based on x86 and x86_64 UNIVERSAL binaries because Adobe no longer make Mac Only destination products and haven't for a long time).  Audio Production hasn't been an Apple strong suit for a long time too, almost all professional grade Pro Tools studio installations are built around Windows PCs and Apple's purchasing of Emagic didn't increase LOGIC's sales, it actually decreased sales of the product to the point where it fell from Number 1 to Number 12 within 18 months of the buyout.  That's not say that Logic 7 and upwards aren't used by professionals but it is to say that aren't using it in the numbers they once did. Publishing houses primarily use PC because, in terms of colour separation, Windows offers far more selections of WYSIWG colour palletes aside from Apple having only ever licensed PANTONE.  The best photo editing and screen printing monitors are made by a variety of companies, are usually still CRTs or sometimes extremely high end DLP LCD but none of them are made by Apple.  In fact, Apple's 7K LCD is a an EZIO licensed product.  Apple don't make shit.  Oh wait, yes they do.  They make rebranded stuff, charge a premium for FROG DESIGNS engineers to make it look good and then release it as if it's god's gift to computing when in reality it's nothing more than any other OEMed product.    
2. What you're describing does use those programs to show those pictures, it's just piped output via xml through the UI.  My Linux installation can do the same thing.  Big Deal.  That's not worth the 500% markup. "
 
I have no idea what you said but you used a lot of figures and abbreviations so I'm going to assume you know what you're talking about and agree. Macs got told. 

@DCFGS3 said:
"Yeah but-but-but-but Macs are shiny!!!! And they're so easy to use when you're down at Starbucks writing your novel, and with the new Macbook air, it's so thin it goes with my jeans! And using photobooth, well, I hardly need to mention how handy it is when you need to re-straighten your fringe on-the-go (and I'm 'on-the-go' so much, between collecting the groceries for my organic vegan dinner and protesting against the war/Government/Fast food companies/corporate fat cats/rich white people/pop-culture-which-suffocates-my-alternative-indy-music-tastes-that-are-in-no-way-mainstream-at-all). 
 
Really why would you want to be so mainstream and have a PC? "

Hahaha, love it.
#35 Posted by OllyOxenFree (4988 posts) -

Oh look, it's this thread again!
 
Just use whatever you want, goddamn.

#36 Posted by DCFGS3 (1054 posts) -
@apertura said:
" @DCFGS3 said:
" Yeah but-but-but-but Macs are shiny!!!! And they're so easy to use when you're down at Starbucks writing your novel, and with the new Macbook air, it's so thin it goes with my jeans! And using photobooth, well, I hardly need to mention how handy it is when you need to re-straighten your fringe on-the-go (and I'm 'on-the-go' so much, between collecting the groceries for my organic vegan dinner and protesting against the war/Government/Fast food companies/corporate fat cats/rich white people/pop-culture-which-suffocates-my-alternative-indy-music-tastes-that-are-in-no-way-mainstream-at-all) "
And all PC users are ugly, pimply faced, hunchback forever virgins who live in their basements and masturbate to anime and Nvidias latest graphics card update! I know this is true. See, I can generalize too. "
Totally, not like us Mac users with our chakras aligned and our vegan only diet with herbal tea. Hey man we should totally get together and compare bandannas-that-we-use-as-scarves-but-are-totally-not-scarves and discuss our love for music produced by unshaven men with guitars who are just so much more 'real' than everybody else. Us Mac users are the only ones who 'get it'.
#37 Edited by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

1 in 10 ppl are mac users, 1 in 10 are _ _ _, coincidence? (no offense, however I am explaining why 10% of the ppl perfers a mac)
 
There is a rumor floating around if we are talking about perferences, even floating around on all mac forums too. I won't fill in the blanks however you can google that yourself, you will find a hundred sites (evidence) about it and you can draw your own conclusions about correlations. It also makes sense from an asthetic point of view and very abstract, visual, right brained (women are very right brained compared to men, whatever that means) iconic interface too why they don't like windows which is a very left brain logical sort of operating system. It explains the starbucks and the vegan diet. If you aren't a celebrity, media site creator, or a graphic designer, you shouldn't be using a mac. Any left brained logical indivudual like myself can't understand the whole concept of a mac at all.   
 
Really it is about preferences in more ways then one. Macs doesn't appeal to 90% of the population.

#38 Posted by Whisperkill (2969 posts) -

I honestly don't know why someone would buy a mac over a pc other than that they are extremely smug and like to waste money.

#39 Posted by Baillie (4284 posts) -

Wow, sad. You guys getting all defensive about your PCs/Macs. 
 
Life, GET!

#40 Edited by Tinky_Winky (2 posts) -
@MonetaryDread:  
 
I used to think that Mac was better until I started using one (for work). Os X rot, beachball of death, slow reboot, slow everything.... plus rubbish components. My MacBook is 2.5 years old and is on its 3rd HD and second battery. You may pay more for Mac but you actually get less. 
#41 Posted by dopeman (387 posts) -

aren't people over this yet.

#42 Posted by kamoku (62 posts) -
@Vinchenzo said:
" Anybody on a gaming website will know why a PC is better than a Mac. "
/thread
#43 Edited by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -
@kamoku said:

" @Vinchenzo said:

" Anybody on a gaming website will know why a PC is better than a Mac. "

/thread "

   
 -macs has alot of compatibility issues with osx
-macs are expensive for components
-macs can't play pc all games, only can through steam or dual booting windows in bootcamp, which is still windows 
-gaming on macs is affected by the low powered outdated components because it's not upgradable on the imac's monitor without buying a new one
-Windows 7 can do everything a mac can do and more
-limited to the ati hd4850 for gpu, no room for sli, crossfire in the monitor's imac rig
-sata hardrive only and only one hardrive for that monitor
-windows own almost 90% of the market share rendering macs irrelevent
-Imacs fits everything in the monitor, it limits your upgrade potential of more powerful components without having to buy a new one 

-pc components are a fraction of the cost compared to the mac store, you get better performance and value
-pc is upgradable, macs are difficult to upgrade without buying a new monitor 
-pcs are more powerful, especially as gaming machines
-windows 7 is compatible with almost every program out there 
-pc is compatible with the latest and greatest cpus and videocards and other pc parts, macs aren't 
-pc can play pc games 
-pc has all the programs it needs for media, graphic design and video editing 
-pc can expand to more than one hardrive and it can use sata2 and sata 2, SSD hardrives which is better for storage and speed than macs  
-pc can do everything a mac can do and more
-pc is customizable, you can pick your own case and the brand of your own parts
#44 Posted by Hats (360 posts) -

  
Macs are pricy, although partially because it's a trendy brand, but because of the engineering that goes into making them. I will say once again, they are not dumbed down computers. The engineering of the cases and screens is beyond any $499 Dell laptop. Apple makes the best screens (excluding the $7000 printing factory screens). They are expensive to make. The multi-touch glass trackpad is expensive to make. The body, which on the MacBook Pro's and the enormous 27" iMac are all one piece. They are expensive to make.  

but because of the engineering that goes into making them 
I take it you mean all the engineering by other company's unless your using apple specific software your paying for brand nothing more 
you like using a mac use it but you are paying more for that
ill be sitting here playing games that came out less than 1 1/2 years ago and arguing with douche bags on the internet and paying less for it
#45 Posted by skrutop (3615 posts) -
@MonetaryDread:  "My Reasoning for Why PC's are Better Than Mac's"... a better title would be "Reasons why I think PCs are better than Macs," since that was basically your argument.
#46 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47 said:
" Really it is about preferences in more ways then one. Macs doesn't appeal to 90% of the population. "
 That's not true....there are probably quite a lot of people out there who want a Mac but just can't afford it do to the cost.....just because Macs take up only 10% of the market doesn't mean that they only appeal to 10% of the population.....you obviously have a very poor understanding of economics.
#47 Edited by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

@Unknown_Pleasures: You aren't seeing the big picture, I don't want to insult anyone on the site or types of ppl. Macs had less of a market share before a few years ago, it's around 10% not exactly, it's probally lower. It's more than a computer preference, that's all i'm saying and why certain ppl and their preferences (not computer) will automatically eventually buy a mac. Most ppl with a normal preference will never ever use a mac if they don't have to. Read between the lines, macs appeals asthetically to certain types of ppl because it's fabulous. A bitten apple is an insult to adam and eve, a man and a women, the mac is more asthetically pleasing, has bigger icons and is more right brained. Do you get it? It's more than a computer preference. That's the correllation, no one if they had a choice will buy a mac if they are totally normal in thinking, it makes no sense to them. Dispite economics, we weren't always in a recession before and the market shares didn't really change.  
 

#48 Posted by Hitchenson (4682 posts) -

Macs better than PCs? Nobody believes that, don't be silly.

#49 Edited by Vonocourt (2167 posts) -
@HitmanAgent47: 
Seems like you wised up and decided to erase that little mac users=homosexuals line.
#50 Posted by JJWeatherman (14571 posts) -
@OllyOxenFree said:
" Oh look, it's this thread again!  Just use whatever you want, goddamn. "
Agreed! Christ guys. PCs are for power users, Macs are not. That's basically what it comes down to. I can totally get why different people would buy either of them.