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#151 Posted by TheHT (11148 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@red12b: Truth be told, no, I don't like Kasavin. His participation in that contest left a sour impression of him on me and I don't feel the need to be apologetic about that. But that's hardly the only reason I dislike him and I don't feel obligated in any way to go further in my explanation here because you dredging this up was unwarranted.

What contest?

Online
#152 Edited by Skytylz (4031 posts) -

@jakob187 said:

1. If North Korea DID launch a nuke towards the U.S., the chances of it actually getting to land on soil is about a million to one, as our missile defense systems along the West Coast are ridiculous.

2. If North Korea DID launch towards South Korea, our defense systems would also stop that at U.S. military bases as well as through military plane drills...or even drones.

3. If North Korea would decide to stop being such ass-spelunkers, they might realize that HEY, PEOPLE AREN'T SO BAD AFTER ALL! Unfortunately, the world doesn't really like tyranny OH WAIT THERE ARE A TON OF GLOBAL POWERS THAT ARE TYRANNICAL.

If anything, I think it's odd that China, Russia, the United States, and England - four countries who have an iron fist clench on their people when it comes to politics and the amount of law controlling their peoples' lives - constantly talk about North Korea being tyrannical. It's kind of ironic.

With all that said, I could only hope they'd be able to get a nuke on soil and wash away the pretentious nature of this goddamn country.

Is that you HitmanAgent47?

Edit: Fuck, someone beat me to it.

#153 Edited by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

I won a GameSpot contest where I got to hang out with Kasavin for a day and he beat the shit out of me.

#154 Posted by Daveyo520 (6682 posts) -

@peasantabuse: I would stop being an enemy in an Elder Scrolls game. But that is just me.

#155 Edited by TheHT (11148 posts) -

I won a GameSpot contest where I got to hang out with Kasavin for a day and he beat the shit out of me.

Sounds fair.

Online
#156 Edited by Hailinel (24413 posts) -

@theht said:

@hailinel said:

@red12b: Truth be told, no, I don't like Kasavin. His participation in that contest left a sour impression of him on me and I don't feel the need to be apologetic about that. But that's hardly the only reason I dislike him and I don't feel obligated in any way to go further in my explanation here because you dredging this up was unwarranted.

What contest?

Back when Kasavin was still the editor in chief at Gamespot, there was a semi-official "Developer for a Day" contest that was put together and judged by members of the staff. Site users could each submit an entry that would be summarily judged, and prizes were handed out to the winners. One of the entrants that made it to the top ten was a mysterious "September23" who hadn't posted to the site before. He ended up winning. The following year, the contest was held a second time, and September23 resurfaced, entered, and won again. Kasavin then unmasked himself as September23.

He cheated by hiding his identity as an anonymous usert to gain entry to the contest and then won twice by impressing his coworkers, whom he knew better than any site user. The revelation that he stepped on users backs to win a contest that wasn't intended for staff just redefined him as an opportunistic dick. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he stepped on the backs of others while working on Command & Conquer and Spec Ops to get where he is now.

#157 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@theht said:

@hailinel said:

@red12b: Truth be told, no, I don't like Kasavin. His participation in that contest left a sour impression of him on me and I don't feel the need to be apologetic about that. But that's hardly the only reason I dislike him and I don't feel obligated in any way to go further in my explanation here because you dredging this up was unwarranted.

What contest?

Back when Kasavin was still the editor in chief at Gamespot, there was a semi-official "Developer for a Day" contest that was put together and judged by members of the staff. Site users could each submit an entry that would be summarily judged, and prizes were handed out to the winners. One of the entrants that made it to the top ten was a mysterious "September23" who hadn't posted to the site before. He ended up winning. The following year, the contest was held a second time, and September23 resurfaced, entered, and won again. Kasavin then unmasked himself as September23.

He cheated by hiding his identity as an anonymous usert to gain entry to the contest and then won twice by impressing his coworkers, whom he knew better than any site user. The revelation that he stepped on users backs to win a contest that wasn't intended for staff just redefined him as an opportunistic dick. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he stepped on the backs of others while working on Command & Conquer and Spec Ops to get where he is now.

How long ago was that contest?

How long ago was the article Greg K wrote explaining the situation and making sure everybody knew what happened so it was on the up and up?

How long ago did Greg K direclty respond to you

http://www.giantbomb.com/greg-kasavin/3040-78340/forums/greg-kasavin-doing-a-pax-panel-438293/#0

a near 3 year old thread, about pax in Greg K's forum, talking bout a panel he'l be hosting.

GregK

#4 Posted by GregK (34 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago

@Hailinel said:
"He's ambitious, I'll give him that, but he's also a tool for cheating his way into two amateur game design contests run by a fellow GameSpot editor while he was still at GS. He also won, no doubt due to his inside knowledge. Once he revealed his identity to the world, it basically ruined all of the good will that I felt the contest had. "

For some reason the idea that someone could think I cheated to win that old contest provoked me into responding here. If you're interested in my side of the story on what happened, this is the article I wrote where I "outed" myself as a contest participant and explain everything that happened in some detail. It's an interesting article for me to look back on now that I've been tooling around in game development for a few years, so thank you for giving me a reason to look it up.

To the rest of you guys, yeah...! I'm hosting a PAX panel, which I still need to prepare for a bunch. If you could make it that would be great.

You're the tool here.

#158 Edited by TheHT (11148 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@theht said:

@hailinel said:

@red12b: Truth be told, no, I don't like Kasavin. His participation in that contest left a sour impression of him on me and I don't feel the need to be apologetic about that. But that's hardly the only reason I dislike him and I don't feel obligated in any way to go further in my explanation here because you dredging this up was unwarranted.

What contest?

Back when Kasavin was still the editor in chief at Gamespot, there was a semi-official "Developer for a Day" contest that was put together and judged by members of the staff. Site users could each submit an entry that would be summarily judged, and prizes were handed out to the winners. One of the entrants that made it to the top ten was a mysterious "September23" who hadn't posted to the site before. He ended up winning. The following year, the contest was held a second time, and September23 resurfaced, entered, and won again. Kasavin then unmasked himself as September23.

He cheated by hiding his identity as an anonymous usert to gain entry to the contest and then won twice by impressing his coworkers, whom he knew better than any site user. The revelation that he stepped on users backs to win a contest that wasn't intended for staff just redefined him as an opportunistic dick. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he stepped on the backs of others while working on Command & Conquer and Spec Ops to get where he is now.

Interesting. Reading the confession post and looking over the Developer for a Day FAQ (for anyone else interested), I'm not seeing any 'cheating' going on.

  • Kasavin entered under a pseudonym to be considered as just another contestant.
  • He didn't judge submissions the two years he entered (and won) of the four years the contest was held.
  • Judges were announced after submissions, so tailoring his entry to appeal to specific coworkers wasn't an option.
  • None of the actual contest rules were broken.
  • He says he didn't take the prize money.

Some of those points are of course if you're willing to believe his own account of the situation, but that there's sound rationale behind his entering anonymously leads me to believe that particular deceit doesn't degrade him to being one that would take the money and then lie about it. I see how the revelation could be seen as completely skeezy, and that was my initial feeling after reading your post, but he seems to have not taken it lightly nor with ill intent.

I don't see how it could be called 'stepping on users' backs' though. It was a community run contest open to all entries, which were judged on the merit of the ideas presented. Doesn't seem like he had a leg up that any other contestant couldn't have had.

Of course he could very well be a secret asshole, but I'm not seeing any reason to think so. Certainly not this.

Online
#159 Edited by Hailinel (24413 posts) -

@red12b: Yes, and looking back on that thread in which Greg responded to me, you apparently felt the need to step in and tell me I got served. Here you are, years later, still harping on me despite being the one that resurrected the topic in this thread. You're an obsessive one.

#160 Edited by Red12b (9084 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@red12b: Yes, and looking back on that thread in which Greg responded to me, you apparently felt the need to step in and tell me I got served. Here you are, years later, still harping on me despite being the one that resurrected the topic in this thread. You're an obsessive one.

well i guess the old adage "Takes one to know one" comes into play on this...

Not that I feel obligated to explain myself, it's more.. I suppose I'd like to at least let you in on why I chose to bring this up cause it looks like it's come out of nowhere.,

I don't think I've encountered someone who is so high on their self-righteousness, even in the face of direct replies and explanations and other points of view, I have never seen you admit that you are wrong or back down from a misguided opinion, I may have been able to admire such a brazen indignance, if it wasn't just surrounded in an air of inept verisimilitude, you cling onto and spread your BS sledging other people who aren't there to answer back, you do this in safety and when someone calls you out on your bullshit you dance around the issue and continue on sledging

It's not that I hunt your posts down, (i don't rate you high enough to warrant such a waste of time, the less I read of your posts the better,) it's moreso that when I do come across your posts say on phil fish's "apparent" racism or you sledging an old site friend of mine HD (Who i must admit did have a penchant for taking you to task, in a somewhat... malicious manner,) you never, ever, let sleeping dogs lie.

and it gets on my tits,

I don't shy away from confrontation, if I see something that gets on my tits I'll usually say something about it cause if you don't try nothing changes, i suppose that is where this comes from,

nice way of ignoring what TheHT brought up by the way, kinda proving my point there........

@theht said:

@hailinel said:

@theht said:

@hailinel said:

@red12b: Truth be told, no, I don't like Kasavin. His participation in that contest left a sour impression of him on me and I don't feel the need to be apologetic about that. But that's hardly the only reason I dislike him and I don't feel obligated in any way to go further in my explanation here because you dredging this up was unwarranted.

What contest?

Back when Kasavin was still the editor in chief at Gamespot, there was a semi-official "Developer for a Day" contest that was put together and judged by members of the staff. Site users could each submit an entry that would be summarily judged, and prizes were handed out to the winners. One of the entrants that made it to the top ten was a mysterious "September23" who hadn't posted to the site before. He ended up winning. The following year, the contest was held a second time, and September23 resurfaced, entered, and won again. Kasavin then unmasked himself as September23.

He cheated by hiding his identity as an anonymous usert to gain entry to the contest and then won twice by impressing his coworkers, whom he knew better than any site user. The revelation that he stepped on users backs to win a contest that wasn't intended for staff just redefined him as an opportunistic dick. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he stepped on the backs of others while working on Command & Conquer and Spec Ops to get where he is now.

Interesting. Reading the confession post and looking over the Developer for a Day FAQ (for anyone else interested), I'm not seeing any 'cheating' going on.

  • Kasavin entered under a pseudonym to be considered as just another contestant.
  • He didn't judge submissions the two years he entered (and won) of the four years the contest was held.
  • Judges were announced after submissions, so tailoring his entry to appeal to specific coworkers wasn't an option.
  • None of the actual contest rules were broken.
  • He says he didn't take the prize money.

Some of those points are of course if you're willing to believe his own account of the situation, but that there's sound rationale behind his entering anonymously leads me to believe that particular deceit doesn't degrade him to being one that would take the money and then lie about it. I see how the revelation could be seen as completely skeezy, and that was my initial feeling after reading your post, but he seems to have not taken it lightly nor with ill intent.

I don't see how it could be called 'stepping on users' backs' though. It was a community run contest open to all entries, which were judged on the merit of the ideas presented. Doesn't seem like he had a leg up that any other contestant couldn't have had.

Of course he could very well be a secret asshole, but I'm not seeing any reason to think so. Certainly not this.

#161 Edited by Red12b (9084 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@red12b: Yes, and looking back on that thread in which Greg responded to me, you apparently felt the need to step in and tell me I got served. Here you are, years later, still harping on me despite being the one that resurrected the topic in this thread. You're an obsessive one.

Just out of unhealthy curiosity, did you have a game design that lost out to GregK in that comp?

Because then I might slightly understand your indignanation on the matter

#162 Edited by TruthTellah (8801 posts) -

@red12b: @hailinel: Come on, guys. We're talking about a real life situation and the possibility of a war. While it's cool to get off topic on occasion, this sounds a lot more like a personal conflict rather than simply an off-topic disagreement. Neither the quality of Greg Kasavin or Hailinel's personality have anything to do with North Korea. Could you please take it to a PM and try to talk out your differences there instead? I'm sure everyone would appreciate showing that courtesy.

#163 Edited by Red12b (9084 posts) -

eh, there's not much fretting about it will do, NK are children looking for attention, if the nukes drop the nukes drop,

#164 Posted by TruthTellah (8801 posts) -

@red12b said:

eh, there's not much fretting about it will do, NK are children looking for attention, if the nukes drop the nukes drop,

Seriously?

#165 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -

well what good is worrying going to do? keep informed, sure, but worry about something wholly out of my control? no chance.

#166 Edited by Jeust (10552 posts) -

A dog that barks doesn't bite. If they really wished to strike South Korea, NK wouldn't be prancing around.

#167 Edited by StrikeALight (1114 posts) -

This guys sums up North Korea pretty elequently - BBC LINK

Scroll down to the video interview with BBC correspondent, John Sweeney.

#168 Posted by cosi83 (395 posts) -

I'm off to S Korea next week and I don't want to be nuked. It aint going to happen. They just bluffing

#169 Posted by heatDrive88 (2311 posts) -

#170 Edited by Hailinel (24413 posts) -

@red12b: @hailinel: Come on, guys. We're talking about a real life situation and the possibility of a war. While it's cool to get off topic on occasion, this sounds a lot more like a personal conflict rather than simply an off-topic disagreement. Neither the quality of Greg Kasavin or Hailinel's personality have anything to do with North Korea. Could you please take it to a PM and try to talk out your differences there instead? I'm sure everyone would appreciate showing that courtesy.

I was done talking about it, anyway.

@red12b said:

eh, there's not much fretting about it will do, NK are children looking for attention, if the nukes drop the nukes drop,

@red12b said:

well what good is worrying going to do? keep informed, sure, but worry about something wholly out of my control? no chance.

Well, you're certainly not worth talking to about this. I can see that much now.

#171 Edited by RenegadeDoppelganger (407 posts) -

This thread kind of began and ended with @nivash's detailed summation of why nobody wants a war on the Korean Peninsula.

All sides are actively trying to avoid an armed conflict because it puts countries on both sides in a terrible position with absolutely no foreseeable gains other than NK leadership feeling good about themselves for a day before targeted airstrikes effectively introduce regime change.

NK is basically the guard dog hanging out on China's front porch. NK's job is to look big and mean, pace around and bark up a storm to keep people away from China's house. China needs to keep the dog on a short leash though, if it attacks one of the neighbours they are probably going to get dragged into a long and costly conflict because the dog was their responsibility. Also the dog will probably be put down as a result, which is not good because then no one is guarding your house and your neighbours feel like they can stroll over your lawn any time they please. China will eventially get raise at work and decide to a install a gate, some high walls and security cameras. Then maybe China's house looks a little intimidating and people don't want to walk so close to it anymore.

Also China's house is the bank and everyone in town has several maxed out credit cards with them, so everyone needs to play nice and get along.

#172 Posted by AziMuttyo (82 posts) -

I'm touching my hairy chest

#173 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@truthtellah said:

@red12b: @hailinel: Come on, guys. We're talking about a real life situation and the possibility of a war. While it's cool to get off topic on occasion, this sounds a lot more like a personal conflict rather than simply an off-topic disagreement. Neither the quality of Greg Kasavin or Hailinel's personality have anything to do with North Korea. Could you please take it to a PM and try to talk out your differences there instead? I'm sure everyone would appreciate showing that courtesy.

I was done talking about it, anyway.

@red12b said:

eh, there's not much fretting about it will do, NK are children looking for attention, if the nukes drop the nukes drop,

@red12b said:

well what good is worrying going to do? keep informed, sure, but worry about something wholly out of my control? no chance.

Well, you're certainly not worth talking to about this. I can see that much now.

hahaha, whatever, you're not worth my time anyway.

#174 Posted by MightyDuck (1521 posts) -

@strikealight: Just watched that link. Pretty interesting perspective, thanks for posting.

#175 Edited by Subjugation (4720 posts) -

When did this thread become about Greg Kasavin? The hell?

Way to take a serious topic and dilute it with meaningless drivel.

#176 Posted by Krullban (1034 posts) -

Kasavin Jong-Ill

#177 Posted by NekuSakuraba (7240 posts) -

It's kind of amazing how we went from talking about North Korea and Kim Jong Un to Greg Kasavin and Gamespot.

How the fuck does that even happen?

#178 Edited by mrpandaman (864 posts) -

This thread kind of began and ended with @nivash's detailed summation of why nobody wants a war on the Korean Peninsula.

All sides are actively trying to avoid an armed conflict because it puts countries on both sides in a terrible position with absolutely no foreseeable gains other than NK leadership feeling good about themselves for a day before targeted airstrikes effectively introduce regime change.

NK is basically the guard dog hanging out on China's front porch. NK's job is to look big and mean, pace around and bark up a storm to keep people away from China's house. China needs to keep the dog on a short leash though, if it attacks one of the neighbours they are probably going to get dragged into a long and costly conflict because the dog was their responsibility. Also the dog will probably be put down as a result, which is not good because then no one is guarding your house and your neighbours feel like they can stroll over your lawn any time they please. China will eventially get raise at work and decide to a install a gate, some high walls and security cameras. Then maybe China's house looks a little intimidating and people don't want to walk so close to it anymore.

Also China's house is the bank and everyone in town has several maxed out credit cards with them, so everyone needs to play nice and get along.

There's only so much China can do and if they cut off support to N. Korea, this gives N. Korea a bigger reason to risk conflict as they would have "nothing to lose." China, however, is obligated under an agreement signed about 50 years ago to defend N. Korea should they be attacked. They already have a contingent of their army moving to the China-N.Korea border to prepare for such a conflict and to receive refugees from N. Korea.

One thing, unmentioned, is if the US does enter another war/conflict how long could we sustain it? In an economy that is barely recovering, could the US handle another long drawn out conflict that may very well deal with another regime change? Meaning, we must occupy the country until the region can stabilize. Last time I checked the US is nowhere near as economically stable to start a long conflict as they were before deciding to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. However, if the US is drawn into a fight, they have to fight and worry about winning first and then worry about the repercussions later.

No one wants this war to happen. Like nivash said, China would probably rather wait later than sooner, because they will be surpassing the US in a decade or so should nothing crazy happen. The US and their allies do not want enter another conflict after being in one for almost a decade and would rather refocus on internal recovery and find a way to delay China's ascendance.

#179 Edited by Nivash (241 posts) -

@mrpandaman: Whether or not the US could afford a war with China is a bit of non-issue, considering that the economies of both countries would probably implode at the outbreak of hostilities anyway. Their economies are way too intertwined at this point. Really, the only way the two could sustain a war would be a bizarre agreement where they promise to limit their fight to, say, Korea, while promising to keep trading on the side. Which is obviously impossible. And the world economy would tank anyway due to the loss of the South Korean economy (which would happen even in a limited war with North Korea too, even if they win quickly - South Korea would still be a war zone for weeks to months, which isn't exactly a good thing for affected stockholders)

This as the new MAD doctrine for our time. A nicer one, if you ask me. A total war between the US and China would still be possible, of course, but they would largely have to fight with what resources they already have with limited resupply options. In any case it's unlike either population will stand it for long.

As for affording a war with North Korea I don't think it would be that big of a deal. It would be more similar to the intervention in Libya (which didn't really cost all that much) than Iraq in that ground combat could largely be left to the ROK with the US mainly providing air and naval support. Of course it would be on a much bigger, and costlier, scale and the US would still both be involved on the ground and suffer much higher losses but a large scale US invasion and occupation isn't really necessary unless North Korea turns out to be far tougher than expected. And like I said, any occupation is far better handled by South Korea. In any case the world market crash I mentioned would dwarf any military costs. It might actually cost less to intervene than not to, if it means a greater chance of preserving South Korean industries.

As for the Chinese agreement with North Korea it's nowhere near as ironclad as it sounds. It's quite different to, say, the agreement between the US and Taiwan: the US stands to lose a great deal if they don't follow it since they have several other agreements with other countries that would be questioned, severely harming the US geostrategic objective. Hell, if the US refuses to support an invaded ally the entirety of NATO could be jeopardised.

This is not the case with China. Their relationship with North Korea is rather unique. China doesn't really have military alliances, at most they express mutual security interests in cooperation with other countries - like regarding American activities in Asia. They interact on this level with some big players, like Russia and Pakistan, but it's all rather low profile. Then there's the fact that no-one actually likes North Korea. So while Japan would be concerned if say the US ignored an attack on Taiwan, no one would really care if China ignored North Korea since no one really identifies with them. That's the downside of acting like a rogue state.

And I should probably have mentioned this sooner: the agreement is one of mutual defence. China has no obligation whatsoever to support anything started by North Korea. In fact, Kim Il-sung tried to gain Chinese support for an invasion of South Korea in 1975 but was turned down. And with the strong dislike expressed by China over North Korea's nuclear ambitions, an invasion of North Korea by the West because of them could very well result in China refusing to help because of that fact alone.

China would only enter the war if they felt like it's their only option - as it stands, it really isn't.

#180 Posted by Funkydupe (3311 posts) -

China is too busy purchasing and terraforming Africa. It is a nice continent once you get proper plumbing and Wi-Fi installed.

#181 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

North Korea go home your drunk.

#182 Edited by Brodehouse (9876 posts) -

I would welcome it if only to generate the political capital to go and liberate the hundreds of thousands suffering in death camps. I find it absolutely unconscionable that we allow that to happen and use the economy as a scapegoat. Not to throw childish tantrums and racist allegations, but I don't think we'd tolerate it if it were white folk in those camps. When there's genocide and suffering in the Balkans, NATO is on it immediately throwing all sorts of wicked shit around. When it happens to blacks or Asian folk, suddenly it's 'imperialism' and 'foreign adventurism'. You tell me we're going into North Korea to rescue people being starved to death by their own government, I'm enlisting, straight up, zero fucks given. I'm low skilled and in substandard health, zero fucks given. Strap me up and send me out there.

#183 Posted by Tireyo (6409 posts) -

North Korea needs to leave everyone alone and stop flashing their penis. We don't need help pressing the self-destruct button.

#184 Edited by Nivash (241 posts) -

@brodehouse: I actually heard someone else express the same sentiment today, and I hear where you're coming from. I'm just not sure there's much we can do about it. In case of a war those same people we would be trying to rescue would probably be the first to completely have their rations cut - unless they simply choose to execute them en masse to spare the hassle. It's simply doubtful that we would be able to reach them in time. What forces we had would be busy fighting the North Koreans to begin with and there wouldn't be many left to head off liberating any camps.

To make matters worse, most of the camps are far to the north and contain tens of thousands of prisoners. Getting in, securing the area and getting that many people out would be a logistical nightmare even when you're not fighting a bloody war around the DMZ.

As was mentioned earlier, North Korea lacks fuel for more than 30 days of fighting - but a war lasting less than 30 days is highly unlikely. 30 days is a lot of time to starve, especially for people who are malnourished to begin with.

#185 Edited by Brodehouse (9876 posts) -

Well GODDAMMIT.