#1 Posted by Zojirushi (65 posts) -

Russia possibly invading Ukraine, wtf?

Shit might just have got real.

Starting to get a little nervous over here (Germany).

Could you guys please get your red dots ready to help us out, please?

#2 Edited by OtakuGamer (1237 posts) -

I don't think it's much a big deal for us outside Ukraine. The likely outcome is condemnation by the UN and NATO with more harsher sanctions. I'm sure Russia will be joining North Korea on their little private island by the end of it.

#3 Posted by INCSlayer (37 posts) -

I live in Bulgaria (not a native though) and none of my friends are worried about it.

#4 Posted by halfashandy (3 posts) -

Everytime I worry about this (I live in the UK) I always get told to not worry about it and no-one else around me is worried. I guess as a 22 year old I just fear being involved in the fight myself. But everytime I tell people that they tell me to stop worrying and enjoy life! Can't really comment on the situation though however calling it a 'call of duty' is a bit far.

Online
#5 Posted by Danteveli (1186 posts) -

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

#6 Edited by Mcfart (1624 posts) -

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

#7 Posted by BisonHero (6526 posts) -

Ukraine tensions ain't got shit on actual Cold War tensions with the Soviets.

#8 Edited by Ares42 (2663 posts) -

@mcfart: Hm, I dunno.. Living in a country that borders Russia while having a military that would crumble in hours is cause enough for concern for me. Sure, we will never get occupied if our allies comes to our rescue, but even then if things get out of hand it could easily turn my life up-side down pretty quickly.

#9 Edited by Mcfart (1624 posts) -

@ares42 said:

@mcfart: Hm, I dunno.. Living in a country that borders Russia while having a military that would crumble in hours is cause enough for concern for me. Sure, we will never get occupied if our allies comes to our rescue, but even then if things get out of hand it could easily turn my life up-side down pretty quickly.

Well worrying about it will accomplish nothing, as your only option is to emigrate. If that's not an easy possibly, then just live life and don't worry.

#10 Posted by Danteveli (1186 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

What???

Maybe you have forgotten but Russia wasn't like host of last Olympics??? Don't think North Korea ever held such an event. Plus Europe is dependent on the Russian gas. Oh and by the way I think its in like Council of United Nations.

Saying Russia is like North Korea is just super silly.

#11 Posted by Freshbandito (686 posts) -
@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

I believe that in the period where European Union member nations have slashed their military budgets by up to half in some cases Russia has increased theirs by 20% steadily, Military analysts for the EU predict that it's member's ability to stop a full blown russian invasion should it occur look very shaky.

#12 Posted by dudeglove (7849 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

If Russia was anything remotely like North Korea, you ought to be concerned, because for one the DPRK's mandatory military service for all men is 10 years minimum.

Due to hideous issues with dedovshina (the so-called "Rule of the Grandfather" hazing rituals) and other problems with Russia's mandatory military service such as the sheer ease to dodge the draft through bribery or beating the system through other means (medical certificate, having kids etc.), Russia slashed that period down to just one year. As such the military itself is extremely unfit on all fronts, especially considering you have to be either an actual idiot or a criminal to end up in its ranks.

Thousands of Ukrainians have been killed in the east of the country in the past half year, while approx 300,000 more have been displaced due to the civil war. Yeah, real funny.

#13 Posted by doomocrat (130 posts) -

Those underestimating the Russian military aren't thinking about the possible ROE. A ground war against a nuclear nation won't happen. Air and naval engagements against the RF's naval and air resources would be something the US hasn't seen since fighting repurposed Russian MIG's over Vietnam, and even then not on the same scale. Russia's higher tech military power is 100% designed to cause havoc to NATO forces and American/European power would take losses. In the kind of battle that would actually be fought the U.S. is better armed but nowhere near as invincible as it's been the past 30 years.

So it's more like Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. I guess.

#14 Posted by hermes (1486 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

Worst things started with much less (like WW 1 being about Austria invading Serbia)

I don't want to go all cold-war to you, but Russia is most definitely NOT Korea. There is a matter of scale there...

#15 Posted by T_wester (191 posts) -

You shouldn't overestimated Russia's military power the hybrid war they are fighting in Ukraine shows they know that. The use of commandos without insignia, arming of separatists, massive propaganda and misinformation have shrouded the whole conflict and made the European leaders to lenient on Russia.

#16 Edited by Athadam (692 posts) -

I think that there's a serious problem in this world with increasingly biased media coverage and the lost of journalistic integrity. The internet has evolved into a place where clickbait headlines attract and mislead and where news stories are updated and written so fast that they hardly ever cover the whole issue. The facts are set aside while people choose and read what they wish to believe. Furthermore, you now have religious extremists and militant groups with the power to spread their propaganda and mobilize people from all over the world to do their bidding.

Don't forget that over 80% of Russians support Putin. He is not a lone wolf dictator who is pushing against the West. He is an intelligent and cunning individual who makes calculated risks and has the ability to unify a nation that has been largely ignored by the West since the fall of the USSR.

Western media says one thing. Russian media says another.

To this day, Russians believe that the Ukrainian jet shot down MH-17. That Russia is not funding or aiding the separatists in Ukraine. And a large number even believe that the West is ruled by corrupt "neo-facists" billionaire oligarchs. There is swath of rhetoric reminiscent of Russia's strength against evildoers in WWII.

I think that Americans have a lot to be worried about. There are a various domestic issues that the US is struggling to solve even for itself, not to even mention its losing/lost position as the lead nation of the free world. Cybersecurity and surveillance is pretty much dying off after Snowden.

No one besides a few countries in the West trusts the US. Couple this, with the fact that extremists fundamentalists are literally trying to recruit Americans and British citizens, it's only a matter of time until suicide bombings take place in our nations.

#17 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4208 posts) -

This post title needs a re-name, I think.

#18 Edited by Willza92 (263 posts) -

Hey, @Russia

#19 Posted by SaucyGiraffe (22 posts) -

This hurts Russia more than anyone else in the long run, I don't really understand Putin's motivation for the whole charade.

#20 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3091 posts) -

@athadam said:

I think that there's a serious problem in this world with increasingly biased media coverage and the lost of journalistic integrity. The internet has evolved into a place where clickbait headlines attract and mislead and where news stories are updated and written so fast that they hardly ever cover the whole issue. The facts are set aside while people choose and read what they wish to believe. Furthermore, you now have religious extremists and militant groups with the power to spread their propaganda and mobilize people from all over the world to do their bidding.

Don't forget that over 80% of Russians support Putin. He is not a lone wolf dictator who is pushing against the West. He is an intelligent and cunning individual who makes calculated risks and has the ability to unify a nation that has been largely ignored by the West since the fall of the USSR.

Western media says one thing. Russian media says another.

To this day, Russians believe that the Ukrainian jet shot down MH-17. That Russia is not funding or aiding the separatists in Ukraine. And a large number even believe that the West is ruled by corrupt "neo-facists" billionaire oligarchs. There is swath of rhetoric reminiscent of Russia's strength against evildoers in WWII.

I think that Americans have a lot to be worried about. There are a various domestic issues that the US is struggling to solve even for itself, not to even mention its losing/lost position as the lead nation of the free world. Cybersecurity and surveillance is pretty much dying off after Snowden.

No one besides a few countries in the West trusts the US. Couple this, with the fact that extremists fundamentalists are literally trying to recruit Americans and British citizens, it's only a matter of time until suicide bombings take place in our nations.

Well, I guess they're not totally misinformed.

#21 Edited by Abendlaender (2806 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

What

#22 Posted by Brodehouse (9949 posts) -

This is Jack Swagger's fault.

#23 Posted by Nictel (2412 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

I believe that in the period where European Union member nations have slashed their military budgets by up to half in some cases Russia has increased theirs by 20% steadily, Military analysts for the EU predict that it's member's ability to stop a full blown russian invasion should it occur look very shaky.

Jup, we even have to retrieve the patriots from Turkey cause we simply can't maintain them.

#24 Posted by SSully (4186 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

Except they have a nuclear stock pile to rival the USA, an army with competent modern training, and much better technology then NK. They are really nothing alike.

I still don't think anything like WW3 will happen, but it's incredibly dismissive to compare Russia to NK.

#25 Posted by Crembaw (411 posts) -

This hurts Russia more than anyone else in the long run, I don't really understand Putin's motivation for the whole charade.

Ukraine and Russia have heavily interwoven histories with many points of shared cultural heritage, and a not insignificant number of people consider Ukraine to be part of Russia. Beyond that, their defensive strategies all revolve around keeping Ukraine protected, because whosoever controls Ukraine has a straight shot at Russia's agricultural heartland and oil reserves. If Russia's only concern is its own prosperity then it makes complete sense to secure Ukraine from both strategic and sociopolitical standpoints. Whether that means annexing only parts of it, installing a puppet government, or taking it entirely into itself remains to be seen.

None of that makes it better or acceptable in any way, of course. I hope everyone remains safe and unharmed by whatever ends up happening there, and I strongly hope Ukraine remains independent.

#26 Edited by SaucyGiraffe (22 posts) -

@crembaw: is Ukriane really worth the hit in international trade? Russia is a big country, Russia's exports in agriculture are going to suffer cause of what, a need to prove itself with Ukriane?

#27 Posted by Crembaw (411 posts) -

@saucygiraffe Considering that possessing Ukraine gives them a straight shot at the regions that provide most of Russia's food and oil? Yes, absolutely. Put bluntly, these are the same regions which Germany sought to control to continue their war effort late in World War 2

#28 Edited by Giantstalker (1651 posts) -

What's most troubling is that this could usher in a new era of proxy warfare, something which harkens back to the late '70s/'80s.

It's been happening for decades in west Africa and certain regions in the middle east, but Russia is proving it's possible elsewhere - closer to Europe - and nobody really cares enough (yet) to deal with it.

With a reticent America and a bloated NATO, I'd argue such a course of action is easier than ever in the modern climate. It ain't Call of Duty, but rather something more subtle and potentially more dangerous.

#29 Posted by jArmAhead (299 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

First of all, Russia actually has a pretty decent military. And a very large standing army. And a lot of military hardware and technology. It may not be quite as fancy as the stuff we have here in the states, but lets say things pop off and NATO finds itself in an actual war with Russia. This means fighting a conventional war against a conventional enemy with a massive amount of land, resource control, and a very capable military along with a shit ton of idiots serving in it. Even with a generally lackluster fighting force in terms of motivation and training, Russia poses a real threat. And while basic forces are pretty undisciplined, have no doubt that Russia has some bad ass operators. All of this would be completely in contrast with the unconventional, arid, guerrilla style enemy we've been fighting in the middle east. And it would come at a time when the US military is decreasing funding, cutting down on the number of forces, and switching to a completely different mode, as is most of NATO.

Saying Russia is basically like North Korea but bigger is incredibly ignorant. That's like saying one of the little islands that the US bought is like the US, only smaller (or vis versa). They are not that similar. Korea is no where near as powerful, and no where near as relevant. Russia has the might to back up it's bark. NK does not. Russia is fucking huge and that alone is enough to drive it's reach pretty fucking hard. The question is not if Russia is capable of a real conflict, it's whether they will instigate one.

#30 Posted by Slaps2 (251 posts) -

If you live in Germany, you don't need to be worried. You're in a NATO member state.

#31 Posted by jArmAhead (299 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

First of all, Russia actually has a pretty decent military. And a very large standing army. And a lot of military hardware and technology. It may not be quite as fancy as the stuff we have here in the states, but lets say things pop off and NATO finds itself in an actual war with Russia. This means fighting a conventional war against a conventional enemy with a massive amount of land, resource control, and a very capable military along with a shit ton of idiots serving in it. Even with a generally lackluster fighting force in terms of motivation and training, Russia poses a real threat. And while basic forces are pretty undisciplined, have no doubt that Russia has some bad ass operators. All of this would be completely in contrast with the unconventional, arid, guerrilla style enemy we've been fighting in the middle east. And it would come at a time when the US military is decreasing funding, cutting down on the number of forces, and switching to a completely different mode, as is most of NATO.

We're talking about a nation with as many military personal as China. And that's without them even really TRYING. If they behaved anything like NK, their military would be bursting at the fuckin' seams. Even without any of that, they have a couple hundred thousand on us here in the states, and that is based on 2013 numbers which aren't representative of changes to the US military and probable changes to Russia's military (being decreased and increased respectively).

Saying Russia is basically like North Korea but bigger is incredibly ignorant. That's like saying one of the little islands that the US bought is like the US, only smaller (or vis versa). They are not that similar. Korea is no where near as powerful, and no where near as relevant. Russia has the might to back up it's bark. NK does not. Russia is fucking huge and that alone is enough to drive it's reach pretty fucking hard. The question is not if Russia is capable of a real conflict, it's whether they will instigate one.

#32 Posted by mlarrabee (2957 posts) -

@mcfart said:

@danteveli said:

The not being worried talk reminds me about the appeasement. Talk about it not being your problem until Putin is at your doorstep with Kalashnikov.

He doesn't stand a chance against first world countries. Russia's basically like North Korea, but bigger. Just laugh at their shenannigans and move on.

If Russia was anything remotely like North Korea, you ought to be concerned, because for one the DPRK's mandatory military service for all men is 10 years minimum.

Due to hideous issues with dedovshina (the so-called "Rule of the Grandfather" hazing rituals) and other problems with Russia's mandatory military service such as the sheer ease to dodge the draft through bribery or beating the system through other means (medical certificate, having kids etc.), Russia slashed that period down to just one year. As such the military itself is extremely unfit on all fronts, especially considering you have to be either an actual idiot or a criminal to end up in its ranks.

Thousands of Ukrainians have been killed in the east of the country in the past half year, while approx 300,000 more have been displaced due to the civil war. Yeah, real funny.

For first-world superpowers, war hasn't been about soldiers since WWII. Russia is third or forth in military might, and nations 1-3 haven't done anything beyond sanctioning. I'm undecided as to whether the US should intervene beyond its current actions, but I believe that the UK, Italy, and other military mights should make it clear that this behavior is unacceptable.