Quit Praising Obama and Blaming Bush!

AgentJ, I don't think we can quite criticize Jazzy's claims. What we have here is a semantics error that could go either way, and we should clear it up.

Uhh, J. Public debt is government debt. Just like public healthcare is government healthcare, and a public park is a park administrated and maintained by the government.

Private debt is debt held by individuals

to be honest...i have no idea.

but i'll make a case out of it or something. it's all a matter of semantics, just like how government "consumption" has been renamed "investment", all you have to do is change around some words.

Investment is literally savings. It's when you save money in the present and divert it into something for the future. This means you replace consumption, and instead, you save. However, in the new administration, consumption in the present is considered investment by the government and without saving first.

So all the Obama administration and the media have done, is changed the words around. Consumption is now investment, savings is now hoarding and not investment. The very laws of economics have been changed by semantics.

So I can just go ahead and switch around the terms "deficit" and "surplus". If other people can do it, why can't I?

Bush left office with a surplus. I rest my case.

Orwell would love/hate you, burt. Depending on whether or not you believe what was said about Orwell after he died.

ha, what was said about him after he died?

A surplus in the fiscal budget doesn't equate to Clinton bringing us out of debt. There were a few periods during Clinton's time in office where he had a surplus in the budget, but overall, he drove us deeper in the hole. Please go to this site and punch in Clinton's dates (Jan 20, 1993 - 2001).

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=npI'm sick of people not knowing the facts, or interpreting them incorrectly. Please do your own homework and stop listening to the media, which is almost always slanted in one direction or the other. Anyone who knows anything about this shit knows Clinton left office with a 5.7 Trillion dollar debt."

Snipz' wise selection of Doonesbury comics has hit the nail on the head. Since Reagan (and arguably, going back to Nixon, if not further back), Republican Party Candidates and Elected officials (and their mouthpieces) have spouted the rhetoric of fiscal responsibility, the rhetoric of free markets, the rhetoric of balanced budgets and lower taxes, but the reality is the opposite. While the Democrats may in fact be 'taxers and spenders', the Republicans are big spenders with selective tax cutting, and net-tax increases and under Bush 43, the U.S. government underwent the single largest expansion of power in American history.

Having said all that, it's not as though Obama is trying to shrink the size of the government at all. The U.S. is creating a Singapore/PR China/UAE-style Sovereign Wealth Fund, and it's using the Economic crisis as cover.

*bump*

<3 AgentJ

"*bump*<3 AgentJ"

well find one then and bring him in here...

LBJ can be very easily compared to Bush. He did not have a chance than to do anything else but commit fully to Vietnam. He wanted to establish a great society in America, his vision for America was a tremendous one and he may have been one of the greatest presidents. If he had ran for election himself, if he and won and if he could have established his own polices. But  JFK was assassinated and he had to step into office. He was left with a country slowing being sucked into a war.  You claim that if 9/11 had not happened, maybe Bush would have been great. Maybe LBJ would have been great. But Vietnam did happen and so did 9/11. It is the Presidents job to step up the plate and do his duty for his country. He was given the power and the responsibility of that power by the people. He has to deal with the tragedies and the disasters because he promised he would.

Yet, when 9/11 happened and America needed a strong leader, Bush was not there. Saddam Hussein, however horrible he was, did not cause 9/11 to happen. The perpetrators of the heinous crime of 9/11 are not a country. They are terrorists and terrorists do not reside in any one country or have any specific allegiance. Even if the Bush Administration had pin-pointed the scum, they did not say they were in Iraq. Bush went into Iraq for different reasons then 9/11.
 
Bush went to war because he saw massive deposits of oil and a convenient excuse to access them through the righteous action of uprooting a dictator. Bush is to blame for that, simple as.  He made decisions that effected the entire country and yes, maybe the average Joe could say "Well,at the time it seemed right.", but he can not. The power of a country is too immense, he had too many people around him who advised him and too many other options than for you to say it's not his fault.

Whatever about Obama as a president, Bush was a terrible one and he is responsible for everything. It was not his fault that on September 11th, terrorists struck. It was not his fault that a hurricane hit New Orleans. But it his fault that he did not act correctly.

Shazam, 9/11 was less justification of the Iraq war than it was a catalyst that lead to the war. The US had been teasing the idea of a war before, but simply didn't act. It began when Iraq refused to allow the U.N. to inspect the country for WMDs. Shortly after, President Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act into law. The Act stated that the United States would pursue an Iraqi regime change due to crimes the nation had committed. Once again, 9/11 wasn't the direct cause of the invasion, but it prompted action. 

"Shazam, 9/11 was less justification of the Iraq war than it was a catalyst that lead to the war. The US had been teasing the idea of a war before, but simply didn't act. It began when Iraq refused to allow the U.N. to inspect the country for WMDs. Shortly after, President Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act into law. The Act stated that the United States would pursue an Iraqi regime change due to crimes the nation had committed. Once again, 9/11 wasn't the direct cause of the invasion, but it prompted action. "

I wouldn't touch this thread with a ten foot pole.

"JazzyJeff said:

"Where do people get the information that Clinton left office with a surplus? We haven't been out of debt in a loooooong time."

Exactly, whatever he left us wasn't his doing he just got lucky and was left with "technically" a surplus but most of it wasn't cause of him. He didn't contribute the much to our economic state. He didn't hurt us but he didn't help either. Not that that is a bad thing cause its not. But give credit were credit is due and he shouldn't be given credit."

Damn you for bumping a political thread!

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