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#1 Edited by Ariketh (606 posts) -

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever. This question is really fucked up. If a normal school were to ask this question, the teacher would get in a lot of trouble...

Here is the question:

You have just proposed to, or have been proposed to, the person of your dreams. You two are in love and are planning a September 2012 wedding. While doing some work at your parish to prepare for marriage, you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates. he/she is willing to talk about their "issue" but doesn't know if they're going to be able to change.

  • a-b) What are the two biggest concerns that you have with your fiancee's problem? list them and explain how you would deal with this issue.
  • c-d)list two of the potential benefits for your marriage if both you and your fiancee make a renewed effort at chastity both before and after your wedding day.
#2 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

i would not see it as a problem in the slightest. unless the porn was kids or animals or both

#3 Edited by Doctorchimp (4076 posts) -

a-b) My biggest concern is I'm a petty vengeful person that judges someone for touching a body part for around 15 minutes a day and I'm a hypocrite who will continue to judge and pretend as though my fiancee is all alone in the world perpetuating a hate crime. I could off myself or realize my fiancee isn't doing anything wrong.

c-d) The biggest benefit at renewing my chastity with my loved one, and I do mean chastity in the purest sense of the word so I don't anger God who's looking at my idle hands, is that I wouldn't spawn a child that I would brainwash and psychologically damage with my insane emotional baggage that will continue to get worse as I pass off all responsibility in my life to a man in the sky that makes me follow rules from a book.

Another benefit if I were to ambush my fiancee into a renewal of our chastity because he/she continues to watch people take their clothes off is the off-chance that they will realize that I have no business saddling another human being with my bullshit and leave me so they find someone that isn't emotionally stunted.

What's my grade Kotter?

EDIT: Right when I posted this I got a blue screen from windows and had to restart my computer...

Which obviously means Scientology is the true religion and the thetans are completely out of whack.

#4 Posted by JustKamToo (684 posts) -

"you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates"

sounds like my ideal mate.

#5 Posted by CookieMonster (2417 posts) -

That is an odd one. The teacher sounds like a bit of a mentallist.

#6 Posted by Matfei90 (1288 posts) -

Wait, viewing pornography and jackin' it is an issue?
 
Goddamn I'm doomed to burn in hell.

#7 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

The only correct answer is porn is awesome!

#8 Posted by Bwast (1342 posts) -

Considering the people that go to these schools, wouldn't the person of their dreams not be guilty of those alleged sins?

#9 Posted by bushpusherr (786 posts) -

This sounds like a Catholic school.

Also, the answer clearly is "have sex daily so there is no need for jackin' it or pornography." Boom, healthy relationship.

#10 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@Ariketh said:

Christian American High School.

Says it all really.

#11 Posted by Ariketh (606 posts) -

@bushpusherr said:

This sounds like a Catholic school.

I think it is.

#12 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

What the fuck do these Christians have against my lady jerking it? Hell, I think I can hear her masturbating right now. Am I gonna stop that shit? Hell no! Why the hell would I? Explain that to me, Christian peoples.

#13 Posted by mscupcakes (612 posts) -

A renewed effort at chastity? Really? Do they really think they can brainwash students with this idiocy? If I were in that class I would pinpoint the benefits of safe sex over chastity. And in answer to the first question; if one of us didn't want to have sex for some reason then the other person can go watch porn, I don't see the problem with that.

#14 Edited by Still_I_Cry (2494 posts) -

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever. This question is really fucked up. If a normal school were to ask this question, the teacher would get in a lot of trouble...

Here is the question:

You have just proposed to, or have been proposed to, the person of your dreams. You two are in love and are planning a September 2012 wedding. While doing some work at your parish to prepare for marriage, you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates. he/she is willing to talk about their "issue" but doesn't know if they're going to be able to change.

  • a-b) What are the two biggest concerns that you have with your fiancee's problem? list them and explain how you would deal with this issue.
  • c-d)list two of the potential benefits for your marriage if both you and your fiancee make a renewed effort at chastity both before and after your wedding day.

Yup, totally fucked up to ask a question about something that goes against the religious beliefs of the school the person is attending.

What the fuck.

The "issue" is a spiritual one, I hope you gauged it as such. It is a problem, if you are both Christian, as it goes against Christian doctrine. It is an issue for the same reasons I just mentioned.

So yeah, totally fucked up question to ask in a Christian school.

A,B - Make up a dumbass answer about how masturbation is ok and viewing porn is great, that I think sounds witty.

C,D - Insult religious people because I am an atheist and because I can.

Done.

#15 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -
  1. Shes not having sex with me.
  2. ???
#16 Posted by Dany (7887 posts) -

You want us to do the homework of your student?

Am I missing something?

#17 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2687 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

@Ariketh said:

Christian American High School.

Says it all really.

Sorry, you bolded the wrong part, dipshit.

Yeah, this is fucked up, but guess what, religion is retarded. Big news, I know.

#18 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever. This question is really fucked up. If a normal school were to ask this question, the teacher would get in a lot of trouble...

Here is the question:

You have just proposed to, or have been proposed to, the person of your dreams. You two are in love and are planning a September 2012 wedding. While doing some work at your parish to prepare for marriage, you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates. he/she is willing to talk about their "issue" but doesn't know if they're going to be able to change.

  • a-b) What are the two biggest concerns that you have with your fiancee's problem? list them and explain how you would deal with this issue.
  • c-d)list two of the potential benefits for your marriage if both you and your fiancee make a renewed effort at chastity both before and after your wedding day.

Yup, totally fucked up to ask a question about something that goes against the religious beliefs of the school the person is attending.

What the fuck.

The "issue" is a spiritual one, I hope you gauged it as such. It is a problem, if you are both Christian, as it goes against Christian doctrine. It is an issue for the same reasons I just mentioned.

So yeah, totally fucked up question to ask in a Christian school.

A,B - Make up a dumbass answer about how masturbation is ok and viewing porn is great, that I think sounds witty.

C,D - Insult religious people because I am an atheist and because I can.

Done.

Where in the Bible does it say no masturbation?

#19 Posted by Pepsiman (2478 posts) -

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever.

For the record, while the government of China itself as a communist entity might not be all that into religion, that doesn't mean it's inherently reflected entirely in the people and history. Quite the opposite, actually. As the founding nation of Confucianism and a historically major exporter of Buddhism (particularly to Japan), it's a country that's done much to influence worldwide religious practices throughout centuries and even nowadays, religion is still very much so alive in the country. It continues to maintain a not insignificant Muslim population and has state-run Catholic churches with their own sets of bishops (the political and religious implications of which are naturally complicated, but that's another topic for another day), among other things. China might often be perceived as an atheist country and certainly a lot of natives nowadays don't necessarily have a religious affiliation, but Chinese parents sending their kid to a Christian high school doesn't immediately raise red flags for me when considering the historical and cultural precedent.

Major tangent, I know, but I just wanted to put out another perspective on that bit specifically.

#20 Posted by Still_I_Cry (2494 posts) -

@Dagbiker: See now, the bible is not the end all be all of Christianity. I loathe when people run to the "does the bible say it?!!?" argument, it shows profound ignorance in regard to how church teaching evolves to address new issues as technology and society evolves. The bible, as I understand it, is seen more as a guide, or a recollection of history rather than something set in stone, immovable even though time is moving onwards.

It is likely that originally, the apostles did not consider masturbation. We have to look at the time period in which the bible was written. As time progressed, through studying the teachings of Jesus and other church thinkers, it was determined by church authorities or what have you that it violated chastity and the sanctity of marriage. Although, Genesis 38:8-10 has been interpreted as stating wasting ones seed is a bad thing to do if you need a bible passage to satiate your desire for knowledge.

#21 Posted by gorkamorkaorka (442 posts) -

I gave up pornography for awhile. Real women actually become a lot more attractive. It's also such a waste of time. It's "okay" in society but I can no longer say (after being without it) that it is a "good" thing.

#22 Edited by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever. This question is really fucked up. If a normal school were to ask this question, the teacher would get in a lot of trouble...

Here is the question:

You have just proposed to, or have been proposed to, the person of your dreams. You two are in love and are planning a September 2012 wedding. While doing some work at your parish to prepare for marriage, you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates. he/she is willing to talk about their "issue" but doesn't know if they're going to be able to change.

  • a-b) What are the two biggest concerns that you have with your fiancee's problem? list them and explain how you would deal with this issue.
  • c-d)list two of the potential benefits for your marriage if both you and your fiancee make a renewed effort at chastity both before and after your wedding day.

Yup, totally fucked up to ask a question about something that goes against the religious beliefs of the school the person is attending.

What the fuck.

The "issue" is a spiritual one, I hope you gauged it as such. It is a problem, if you are both Christian, as it goes against Christian doctrine. It is an issue for the same reasons I just mentioned.

So yeah, totally fucked up question to ask in a Christian school.

A,B - Make up a dumbass answer about how masturbation is ok and viewing porn is great, that I think sounds witty.

C,D - Insult religious people because I am an atheist and because I can.

Done.

Where in the Bible does it say no masturbation?

There is a bit about Onan who was punished for "spilling the seed". It was a crime back then because it decreased the possibility of the survival of the tribe.

"(...) when Onan had sex with Tamar, he disregarded this principle (give Tamar offspring and preserve the faimly line) when he withdrew before climax and "spilled his seed on the ground", since any child born would not legally be considered his heir. He disregarded the principle of a Levirate union, and was accordingly slain by the LORD for his wickedness."

So if you want to go biblically the correct course would be to kill your fiancee I guess.

#23 Edited by believer258 (11914 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever. This question is really fucked up. If a normal school were to ask this question, the teacher would get in a lot of trouble...

Here is the question:

You have just proposed to, or have been proposed to, the person of your dreams. You two are in love and are planning a September 2012 wedding. While doing some work at your parish to prepare for marriage, you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates. he/she is willing to talk about their "issue" but doesn't know if they're going to be able to change.

  • a-b) What are the two biggest concerns that you have with your fiancee's problem? list them and explain how you would deal with this issue.
  • c-d)list two of the potential benefits for your marriage if both you and your fiancee make a renewed effort at chastity both before and after your wedding day.

Yup, totally fucked up to ask a question about something that goes against the religious beliefs of the school the person is attending.

What the fuck.

The "issue" is a spiritual one, I hope you gauged it as such. It is a problem, if you are both Christian, as it goes against Christian doctrine. It is an issue for the same reasons I just mentioned.

So yeah, totally fucked up question to ask in a Christian school.

A,B - Make up a dumbass answer about how masturbation is ok and viewing porn is great, that I think sounds witty.

C,D - Insult religious people because I am an atheist and because I can.

Done.

Where in the Bible does it say no masturbation?

It never explicitly says that. There's a part where some fellow pulls out and "spills his seed" or something of that sort and he wasn't supposed to, but I believe that was a very specific event and doesn't have to do with everyone. Don't quote me on that one.

The issue isn't with the act of having a wank, it's with the lust that comes with it. The best way to keep your fiancee from watching porn and jerking it would probably be to provide him with a bit of action of his own.

I can understand the issue with porn, and it's the same issue that some might have with their significant other looking at and talking about people other than the person they're with. It could provide a point of contention between the two lovers. I guess you can say that "anyone like that isn't secure in their relationship", but then realize that people who are constantly lusting at those other than their significant other are much more likely to cheat. It's understandable when someone becomes anxious that maybe they don't look good enough for their boyfriend or girlfriend or wife or husband or whatever.

Masturbation, on the other hand (teehee!), I don't see much of the issue behind. Hey, everyone has needs, and sometimes those needs can't be filled. Or that person is beating it to the porn they just watched, I dunno.

Finally, the teacher in question should be emailed this:

EDIT: Also, for the record, China has Christians, a significant enough number for there to be a Wikipedia article on it.

#24 Posted by Flawed_System (388 posts) -

Well, are we talking purely religious or just in general?

#25 Edited by Ariketh (606 posts) -

@Pepsiman said:

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever.

For the record, while the government of China itself as a communist entity might not be all that into religion, that doesn't mean it's inherently reflected entirely in the people and history. Quite the opposite, actually. As the founding nation of Confucianism and a historically major exporter of Buddhism (particularly to Japan), it's a country that's done much to influence worldwide religious practices throughout centuries and even nowadays, religion is still very much so alive in the country. It continues to maintain a not insignificant Muslim population and has state-run Catholic churches with their own sets of bishops (the political and religious implications of which are naturally complicated, but that's another topic for another day), among other things. China might often be perceived as an atheist country and certainly a lot of natives nowadays don't necessarily have a religious affiliation, but Chinese parents sending their kid to a Christian high school doesn't immediately raise red flags for me when considering the historical and cultural precedent.

Major tangent, I know, but I just wanted to put out another perspective on that bit specifically.

I'm aware of the history. I've lived in China for 2 years now, and some people here are religious - though they don't flaunt it, and some don't even admit to it. But when you go to a temple and everyone starts bowing and buying incense or burning paper to talk to their ancestors, you realize that some religion has simply become part of their culture and common belief. Actually, a lot of the religious sites were destroyed or abandoned over the years. But that's common in any country. But most countries don't get the attention China does when it happens.

However, meeting people who are Christians is incredibly rare for me. Meeting Muslims is far more common, and I tend to prefer Muslim restaurants, but most people here follow Buddhism. Her family is from Inner Mongolia though, which is a place that I've never been to. Still, she doesn't fit the bill, especially considering some of the things she posts on her RenRen (Chinese Facebook).

#26 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

@Contrarian said:

@Ariketh said:

Christian American High School.

Says it all really.

Sorry, you bolded the wrong part, dipshit.

Yeah, this is fucked up, but guess what, religion is retarded. Big news, I know.

No need for rudeness ........ that wouldn't happen in a religious in my country, so there is a difference.

#27 Posted by Flawed_System (388 posts) -

@Doctorchimp said:

a-b) My biggest concern is I'm a petty vengeful person that judges someone for touching a body part for around 15 minutes a day and I'm a hypocrite who will continue to judge and pretend as though my fiancee is all alone in the world perpetuating a hate crime. I could off myself or realize my fiancee isn't doing anything wrong.

c-d) The biggest benefit at renewing my chastity with my loved one, and I do mean chastity in the purest sense of the word so I don't anger God who's looking at my idle hands, is that I wouldn't spawn a child that I would brainwash and psychologically damage with my insane emotional baggage that will continue to get worse as I pass off all responsibility in my life to a man in the sky that makes me follow rules from a book.

Another benefit if I were to ambush my fiancee into a renewal of our chastity because he/she continues to watch people take their clothes off is the off-chance that they will realize that I have no business saddling another human being with my bullshit and leave me so they find someone that isn't emotionally stunted.

What's my grade Kotter?

EDIT: Right when I posted this I got a blue screen from windows and had to restart my computer...

Which obviously means Scientology is the true religion and the thetans are completely out of whack.

This post made me laugh. Not for the intended reasons though.

#28 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever. This question is really fucked up. If a normal school were to ask this question, the teacher would get in a lot of trouble...

Here is the question:

You have just proposed to, or have been proposed to, the person of your dreams. You two are in love and are planning a September 2012 wedding. While doing some work at your parish to prepare for marriage, you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates. he/she is willing to talk about their "issue" but doesn't know if they're going to be able to change.

  • a-b) What are the two biggest concerns that you have with your fiancee's problem? list them and explain how you would deal with this issue.
  • c-d)list two of the potential benefits for your marriage if both you and your fiancee make a renewed effort at chastity both before and after your wedding day.

Yup, totally fucked up to ask a question about something that goes against the religious beliefs of the school the person is attending.

What the fuck.

The "issue" is a spiritual one, I hope you gauged it as such. It is a problem, if you are both Christian, as it goes against Christian doctrine. It is an issue for the same reasons I just mentioned.

So yeah, totally fucked up question to ask in a Christian school.

A,B - Make up a dumbass answer about how masturbation is ok and viewing porn is great, that I think sounds witty.

C,D - Insult religious people because I am an atheist and because I can.

Done.

I think the main problem with it is that regardless of what is in the Christian doctrine, the question is phrased as though it is entirely objective. Even if, as a Christian, it is objectively wrong to do these things, it does not mean, whatsoever that the person will have problems with such a thing, or that chastity will actually improve a marriage. The objectivity lies in that God said they're wrong. Not any far reaching effects of such actions, positive or negative.

#29 Posted by Ariketh (606 posts) -

@Dany said:

You want us to do the homework of your student?

Am I missing something?

Hahaha, no. I'm just asking, "is this fucked up to you too, or have I become too sensitive after living in China?" The girl is like...14 or 16 maybe? She's quite young by Chinese standards. In China, most girls date and marry 1 man, and most don't even date until college, if not later. Even so, they live with their families until they are married, so they don't live alone very often either. At least, women don't.

I know one woman (a coworker) who is 32 years old and has never lived away from her parents. She was born, raised, and lived in the same house her entire life. They live VERY sheltered lives. Most Chinese don't even know that "cock" is a bad word and argue with me that "it means a male chicken." Yet if I call my pet turtles my babies, they go crazy because "turtle" means a cuckold child.

For the record, every contract I've signed in China states that expressing your religious views in China is forbidden and you can be deported for it. Perhaps I should say that, since most people probably aren't aware of that.

#30 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

It's only okay if the porn involves girls dressed as nuns.

@Pepsiman said:

For the record, while the government of China itself as a communist entity might not be all that into religion, that doesn't mean it's inherently reflected entirely in the people and history. Quite the opposite, actually. As the founding nation of Confucianism and a historically major exporter of Buddhism (particularly to Japan), it's a country that's done much to influence worldwide religious practices throughout centuries and even nowadays, religion is still very much so alive in the country. It continues to maintain a not insignificant Muslim population and has state-run Catholic churches with their own sets of bishops (the political and religious implications of which are naturally complicated, but that's another topic for another day), among other things. China might often be perceived as an atheist country and certainly a lot of natives nowadays don't necessarily have a religious affiliation, but Chinese parents sending their kid to a Christian high school doesn't immediately raise red flags for me when considering the historical and cultural precedent.

Major tangent, I know, but I just wanted to put out another perspective on that bit specifically.

You are a font of interesting-ass facts. Though you've missed an opportunity to point out that China's nickname is the "Show-Me State" :P

#31 Posted by Bocam (3753 posts) -

@Ravenlight said:

It's only okay if the porn involves girls dressed as nuns.

This man speaks the truth.

#32 Edited by Flawed_System (388 posts) -

@Ariketh said:

@Dany said:

You want us to do the homework of your student?

Am I missing something?

Hahaha, no. I'm just asking, "is this fucked up to you too, or have I become too sensitive after living in China?"

Oh, so that's it. No, it's not "fucked up" in my opinion. Especially given the statistics on these things amongst our youth. You need to take into account what the school is, it's a religious school that's supposed to teach the students about the religion, by asking these questions that is exactly what it's doing (It forces the students to THINK about why it's considered "wrong" and how to solve the problem). It points out pornography and masturbation are unacceptable (In concordance with Catholic teachings), chastity is of utmost importance in a marriage (Again, stemming from Catholic teachings), and to work together to solve a problem instead of just getting divorced or calling off the marriage (Which is amicable in my opinion).

In addition I don't believe China is as innocent and as pure as you make it out to be. Just because they live with their parents and don't know the crude English term for male genitalia does not make them any more sheltered than children in America. I'm sure if you asked a kid in America that knew Mandarin or Cantonese what it meant (in either of those languages) they wouldn't know what you were talking about.

#33 Edited by Pepsiman (2478 posts) -

@Ariketh said:

@Pepsiman said:

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever.

For the record, while the government of China itself as a communist entity might not be all that into religion, that doesn't mean it's inherently reflected entirely in the people and history. Quite the opposite, actually. As the founding nation of Confucianism and a historically major exporter of Buddhism (particularly to Japan), it's a country that's done much to influence worldwide religious practices throughout centuries and even nowadays, religion is still very much so alive in the country. It continues to maintain a not insignificant Muslim population and has state-run Catholic churches with their own sets of bishops (the political and religious implications of which are naturally complicated, but that's another topic for another day), among other things. China might often be perceived as an atheist country and certainly a lot of natives nowadays don't necessarily have a religious affiliation, but Chinese parents sending their kid to a Christian high school doesn't immediately raise red flags for me when considering the historical and cultural precedent.

Major tangent, I know, but I just wanted to put out another perspective on that bit specifically.

I'm aware of the history. I've lived in China for 2 years now, and some people here are religious - though they don't flaunt it, and some don't even admit to it. But when you go to a temple and everyone starts bowing and buying incense or burning paper to talk to their ancestors, you realize that some religion has simply become part of their culture and common belief. Actually, a lot of the religious sites were destroyed or abandoned over the years. But that's common in any country. But most countries don't get the attention China does when it happens.

However, meeting people who are Christians is incredibly rare for me. Meeting Muslims is far more common, and I tend to prefer Muslim restaurants, but most people here follow Buddhism. Her family is from Inner Mongolia though, which is a place that I've never been to. Still, she doesn't fit the bill, especially considering some of the things she posts on her RenRen (Chinese Facebook).

Ah, my apologies for the presumptuousness. Sometimes it's hard to read a person's circumstances from just an OP, so I'm sorry if I came across as being condescending. As a Japanese resident myself, I certainly know how religious practices can very easily just be more of a cultural practice than an actual pronouncement of any faith of some sort, as well as the generally combative history towards religious institutions both native and foreign. With the additional information you've now provided, it now makes sense why you brought up that stuff in the first place. Again, my apologies, especially if what I wrote rubbed you the wrong way. You definitely have more first-hand knowledge of what I was talking about in the first place, from the sounds of it.

#34 Posted by CptChiken (1987 posts) -

I see no problem here.

Except that religious posts in these forums always seems to go downhill. Fast.

#35 Posted by pyromagnestir (4324 posts) -

I would only care if they were addicted to porn, or if the porn was disturbing in it's content. But I'm not religious, so I don't count, I guess.

#36 Posted by Galiant (2193 posts) -

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Dagbiker: See now, the bible is not the end all be all of Christianity. I loathe when people run to the "does the bible say it?!!?" argument, it shows profound ignorance in regard to how church teaching evolves to address new issues as technology and society evolves. The bible, as I understand it, is seen more as a guide, or a recollection of history rather than something set in stone, immovable even though time is moving onwards.

Isn't the bible supposed to be the "word of god"? That would mean that altering it, or ignoring certain parts, would make you go against your religion, your god. Who has the authority to choose what to follow and not to follow from the bible? At that point, you're worshiping the word of whoever made those choices, not god, which is incredibly hypocritical in itself isn't it? It's in direct violation of one of the ten commandments! At no point does the bible state "pick and choose which rules you want to follow and interpret them however you like, it's all good!". If the bible was meant to be updated and follow an evolving society, wouldn't god come and tell someone what the new rules are?

This is the core of what I'm getting it: There are people that claim homosexuality and same-sex marriage is against against their religion because the bible says so (something about the sanctity of marriage). Who decides that they should enforce that, but ignore other parts of the bible? How can you use "it's in the bible" as an argument when you actively ignore other parts of it because it doesn't belong in a modern society? How can you allow someone to alter the word of god without being a huge hypocrite?

Please respond, as I am honestly curious.

#37 Posted by Matiaz_Tapia (269 posts) -

Answer is forgive, don't judge, trust the person you claim to love and help them. That is you actually believe in what your book says.

Personally I think it's something you would only ask during the middle ages, but yeah....Christians masturbate, the only difference is deep shame.( er...deeper shame ) I'm assuming it's a guy of course, since as far as christianity goes, women are made to feel even deeper shame and can practice more self-restrain...and there's apparently less porn made for them.

So yeah, she can look and look for the perfect christian guy that has never masturbated or watched porn...and marry a liar :).

#38 Edited by mandude (2669 posts) -

@Galiant: Different branches of Christianity execute this differently. The role of the Pope and Catholic priesthood is to ensure continued relevance in the religion and to interpret the bible, so in a way, as far as Catholicism goes, the word of the bible alone is not enough. I'm not sure, but most other branches of Christianity will take the bible at its word to a greater degree.

#39 Posted by BraveToaster (12589 posts) -

@imsh_pl said:

@Dagbiker said:

Where in the Bible does it say no masturbation?

There is a bit about Onan who was punished for "spilling the seed". It was a crime back then because it decreased the possibility of the survival of the tribe.

"(...) when Onan had sex with Tamar, he disregarded this principle (give Tamar offspring and preserve the faimly line) when he withdrew before climax and "spilled his seed on the ground", since any child born would not legally be considered his heir. He disregarded the principle of a Levirate union, and was accordingly slain by the LORD for his wickedness."

So if you want to go biblically the correct course would be to kill your fiancee I guess.

Onan is a cool motherfucker. Fuck that child support shit.

#40 Edited by Flawed_System (388 posts) -

@Galiant said:

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Dagbiker: See now, the bible is not the end all be all of Christianity. I loathe when people run to the "does the bible say it?!!?" argument, it shows profound ignorance in regard to how church teaching evolves to address new issues as technology and society evolves. The bible, as I understand it, is seen more as a guide, or a recollection of history rather than something set in stone, immovable even though time is moving onwards.

1). Isn't the bible supposed to be the "word of god"? 2/3). That would mean that altering it, or ignoring certain parts, would make you go against your religion, your god. Who has the authority to choose what to follow and not to follow from the bible? At that point, 4).you're worshiping the word of whoever made those choices, not god, which is incredibly hypocritical in itself isn't it? It's in direct violation of one of the ten commandments! At no point does the bible state "pick and choose which rules you want to follow and interpret them however you like, it's all good!". 5). If the bible was meant to be updated and follow an evolving society, wouldn't god come and tell someone what the new rules are?

This is the core of what I'm getting it: There are people that claim homosexuality and same-sex marriage is against against their religion because the bible says so 6). (something about the sanctity of marriage). 7). Who decides that they should enforce that, but ignore other parts of the bible? 8). How can you use "it's in the bible" as an argument when you actively ignore other parts of it because it doesn't belong in a modern society? 9). How can you allow someone to alter the word of god without being a huge hypocrite?

Please respond, as I am honestly curious.

I can answer some of this:

1). Yes. The men who wrote it were Divinely inspired when it comes to the actual teachings (This DOES NOT include passages on what to eat and wear. Number 5).

2). No. None of the words have been altered. People take many of the teachings and provide their own interpretation. Whether it's true or not is debatable.

3). The Pope is infallible when it comes to Scripture. Furthermore, I refer you to the various Councils (Such as the Council of Trent) and other such meetings (Vatican II), Catechism of the Catholic Church etc.)

4). No. Never do you worship the "word".

5). No. The "rules" never change. Again, I refer you to the historical context. People tend to cherry pick passages on food and clothing.

6). The people you are conversing with are not referencing the correct passage. The Bible explicitly states that homosexuality is a punishable offense.

7/8). I refer you to 5 and 1.

9). Look at 2.

I don't feel like arguing about religion. I hope this clears everything up for you.

#41 Posted by Galiant (2193 posts) -

@Flawed_System: Thanks for an interesting reply! I still have a few questions, I but I feel I might have gone too far off-topic already.

#42 Posted by MikkaQ (10291 posts) -

You get marks for that?

Fuck, man. I had to do math and shit for my high school degree. Now I wish I had gone to one of those schools.

#43 Posted by JOURN3Y (230 posts) -

It would be totally cool if my fiancee masturbated a lot or viewed porn. It is not a big deal to me. I like a girl who is so sexually sure of herself. The chastity thing before marriage is cool. It would have to be a mutual choice between the two of us and I would be ok with it, honestly, it would make the sex that much better after the marriage.

As someone who is Chinese and moved to America at a young age, I completely understand why your former student was sent to a religious school (it was a Catholic school right?). Some people when they immigrate believe they should complete integrate into the society. One of which is religion. A Chinese family close to where I live sent all their children to Catholic schools and they are very religious. Religion knows no race nor nationality.

#44 Posted by Ariketh (606 posts) -

@Flawed_System said:

@Ariketh said:

@Dany said:

You want us to do the homework of your student?

Am I missing something?

Hahaha, no. I'm just asking, "is this fucked up to you too, or have I become too sensitive after living in China?"

Oh, so that's it. No, it's not "fucked up" in my opinion. Especially given the statistics on these things amongst our youth. You need to take into account what the school is, it's a religious school that's supposed to teach the students about the religion, by asking these questions that is exactly what it's doing (It forces the students to THINK about why it's considered "wrong" and how to solve the problem). It points out pornography and masturbation are unacceptable (In concordance with Catholic teachings), chastity is of utmost importance in a marriage (Again, stemming from Catholic teachings), and to work together to solve a problem instead of just getting divorced or calling off the marriage (Which is amicable in my opinion).

In addition I don't believe China is as innocent and as pure as you make it out to be. Just because they live with their parents and don't know the crude English term for male genitalia does not make them any more sheltered than children in America. I'm sure if you asked a kid in America that knew Mandarin or Cantonese what it meant (in either of those languages) they wouldn't know what you were talking about.

I'm not saying they're all innocent. They're just naive as hell about sex. And no, they really don't know. They will say "play with me" when they mean "let's go watch a movie" or "go to ktv/karaoke." They really don't understand how dirty that sounds.

#45 Posted by Ariketh (606 posts) -

@Pepsiman said:

@Ariketh said:

@Pepsiman said:

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever.

For the record, while the government of China itself as a communist entity might not be all that into religion, that doesn't mean it's inherently reflected entirely in the people and history. Quite the opposite, actually. As the founding nation of Confucianism and a historically major exporter of Buddhism (particularly to Japan), it's a country that's done much to influence worldwide religious practices throughout centuries and even nowadays, religion is still very much so alive in the country. It continues to maintain a not insignificant Muslim population and has state-run Catholic churches with their own sets of bishops (the political and religious implications of which are naturally complicated, but that's another topic for another day), among other things. China might often be perceived as an atheist country and certainly a lot of natives nowadays don't necessarily have a religious affiliation, but Chinese parents sending their kid to a Christian high school doesn't immediately raise red flags for me when considering the historical and cultural precedent.

Major tangent, I know, but I just wanted to put out another perspective on that bit specifically.

I'm aware of the history. I've lived in China for 2 years now, and some people here are religious - though they don't flaunt it, and some don't even admit to it. But when you go to a temple and everyone starts bowing and buying incense or burning paper to talk to their ancestors, you realize that some religion has simply become part of their culture and common belief. Actually, a lot of the religious sites were destroyed or abandoned over the years. But that's common in any country. But most countries don't get the attention China does when it happens.

However, meeting people who are Christians is incredibly rare for me. Meeting Muslims is far more common, and I tend to prefer Muslim restaurants, but most people here follow Buddhism. Her family is from Inner Mongolia though, which is a place that I've never been to. Still, she doesn't fit the bill, especially considering some of the things she posts on her RenRen (Chinese Facebook).

Ah, my apologies for the presumptuousness. Sometimes it's hard to read a person's circumstances from just an OP, so I'm sorry if I came across as being condescending. As a Japanese resident myself, I certainly know how religious practices can very easily just be more of a cultural practice than an actual pronouncement of any faith of some sort, as well as the generally combative history towards religious institutions both native and foreign. With the additional information you've now provided, it now makes sense why you brought up that stuff in the first place. Again, my apologies, especially if what I wrote rubbed you the wrong way. You definitely have more first-hand knowledge of what I was talking about in the first place, from the sounds of it.

It's cool.

#46 Posted by plaintomato (599 posts) -

@imsh_pl said:

@Dagbiker said:

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Ariketh said:

you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates.

Yup, totally fucked up to ask a question about something that goes against the religious beliefs of the school the person is attending.

What the fuck.

The "issue" is a spiritual one, I hope you gauged it as such. It is a problem, if you are both Christian, as it goes against Christian doctrine. It is an issue for the same reasons I just mentioned.

So yeah, totally fucked up question to ask in a Christian school.

A,B - Make up a dumbass answer about how masturbation is ok and viewing porn is great, that I think sounds witty.

C,D - Insult religious people because I am an atheist and because I can.

Done.

Where in the Bible does it say no masturbation?

There is a bit about Onan who was punished for "spilling the seed"...

So if you want to go biblically the correct course would be to kill your fiancee I guess.

@believer258 said:

The issue isn't with the act of having a wank, it's with the lust that comes with it. The best way to keep your fiancee from watching porn and jerking it would probably be to provide him with a bit of action of his own.

What believer said. Try Matt 5:28. That's pretty overtly in the Bible considering it'd be kind of hard to jerk to porn without a little looketh-lust going on. But I think it's a fact that real life bit-of-action doesn't stop spankers from spanking...try finding a fiancee that is up for porn style gymnastics three times a day - if you do, she's not judging you, she'll help you make up a dumbass answer about how masturbation is ok and viewing porn is great...but I wouldn't bet on 'til death do you part.

#47 Posted by abdo (1037 posts) -

@Ariketh said:

You have just proposed to, or have been proposed to, the person of your dreams. You two are in love and are planning a September 2012 wedding.

Oh man, around here I was really hoping for a Mayan calendar situation.

#48 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Dagbiker: See now, the bible is not the end all be all of Christianity. I loathe when people run to the "does the bible say it?!!?" argument, it shows profound ignorance in regard to how church teaching evolves to address new issues as technology and society evolves. The bible, as I understand it, is seen more as a guide, or a recollection of history rather than something set in stone, immovable even though time is moving onwards.

It is likely that originally, the apostles did not consider masturbation. We have to look at the time period in which the bible was written. As time progressed, through studying the teachings of Jesus and other church thinkers, it was determined by church authorities or what have you that it violated chastity and the sanctity of marriage. Although, Genesis 38:8-10 has been interpreted as stating wasting ones seed is a bad thing to do if you need a bible passage to satiate your desire for knowledge.

You need to tell Christians this then, because apparently no one told them. No one told them that they should change with the times. Because they are still all up in arms about this Homosexuality thing. I think the worlds population wont fall too far if a couple of guys go off into the woods and play together.

#49 Posted by Flawed_System (388 posts) -

@Ariketh said:

@Flawed_System said:

@Ariketh said:

@Dany said:

You want us to do the homework of your student?

Am I missing something?

Hahaha, no. I'm just asking, "is this fucked up to you too, or have I become too sensitive after living in China?"

Oh, so that's it. No, it's not "fucked up" in my opinion. Especially given the statistics on these things amongst our youth. You need to take into account what the school is, it's a religious school that's supposed to teach the students about the religion, by asking these questions that is exactly what it's doing (It forces the students to THINK about why it's considered "wrong" and how to solve the problem). It points out pornography and masturbation are unacceptable (In concordance with Catholic teachings), chastity is of utmost importance in a marriage (Again, stemming from Catholic teachings), and to work together to solve a problem instead of just getting divorced or calling off the marriage (Which is amicable in my opinion).

In addition I don't believe China is as innocent and as pure as you make it out to be. Just because they live with their parents and don't know the crude English term for male genitalia does not make them any more sheltered than children in America. I'm sure if you asked a kid in America that knew Mandarin or Cantonese what it meant (in either of those languages) they wouldn't know what you were talking about.

I'm not saying they're all innocent. They're just naive as hell about sex. And no, they really don't know. They will say "play with me" when they mean "let's go watch a movie" or "go to ktv/karaoke." They really don't understand how dirty that sounds.

Again, I don't think they are naive about sex.

"Research by the United Nations Population Fund published in 2003 indicates that the use of contraception in China is almost universal – at 83 percent."

"A study conducted in 2004 by the Medical Center of Fudan University in Shanghai and the International Health Research Group found premarital sex among China's urban youth was becoming more common."

"The abortion rate in China is about 28 percent" (Which is higher than the U.S. rate)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-01/18/content_410003.htm

#50 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (1215 posts) -

@Ariketh said:

One of my former students sent me a message and asked me if I could help her answer these questions. For some reason, her parents (Chinese) enrolled her into an Christian American High School. I thought it was weird, considering that China doesn't really like religion, but whatever. This question is really fucked up. If a normal school were to ask this question, the teacher would get in a lot of trouble...

Here is the question:

You have just proposed to, or have been proposed to, the person of your dreams. You two are in love and are planning a September 2012 wedding. While doing some work at your parish to prepare for marriage, you find out that your fiancee both habitually views pornography and masturbates. he/she is willing to talk about their "issue" but doesn't know if they're going to be able to change.

  • a-b) What are the two biggest concerns that you have with your fiancee's problem? list them and explain how you would deal with this issue.
  • c-d)list two of the potential benefits for your marriage if both you and your fiancee make a renewed effort at chastity both before and after your wedding day.

I have had a GF who watched more porn than me.

a-b) She was too upfront about, so that's what I would be worried about again. I don't want family/friends to know that my GF watches hardcore porn. My friends would continuously joke about it and I would get pissed or my family would find out and it would be awkward around them (they are mostly older, traditional hispanic women.)

c-d) It would probably be really banging on our honeymoon. The push pull effect is real, so I would want her more than anything.

I would be proud of myself and her for waiting for so long.