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#101 Posted by golguin (3842 posts) -

@kishan6 said:

@golguin said:

@kishan6 said:

@golguin said:

@jams said:

@golguin said:

@mcghee said:

@golguin:

Wouldn't it be hilarious then for a known gang member to look somewhat like you and for the police to role up on you as you walk down the street and pump you full of holes "on site?" What you are saying is so ludicrous I feel like I am getting trolled and there is no point in discussing this anyway.

I don't think it would be funny. You never answered my question about seeing people killed in front of you. Have you ever seen real gang members with your own two eyes in person? I'm not talking about people wearing saggy pants and a wife beater. I'm talking about confirmed gang members.

Before you ask how you "confirm" if someone is a gang member please refrain from asking such a question.

I know exactly what you're talking about. It can be pretty unnerving day to day wondering if some fucker is going to roll up on you and that's it. I grew up with some Mexican kids that were in gangs and I was friends with some of them and cool with others. I was lucky since I was a white kid they were actually super nice to me (at least it made them not have to worry about me being in a gang). I even got in some fights myself and some would come back me up.

If they saw another Mexican they didn't recognize then here comes the puffed out chest, mad dogging and who do you roll with shit.

I saw a guy get his head bashed in by another guy at my school. That fucker was out to kill. Once that one kid hit the floor the other one aimed for his head and started kicking as hard as he could. I don't even know if they've ever met each other before that day. All I know is only one guy made it out alive.

That's essentially what I'm talking about. I'm sure that guy @mcghee has led a pretty cushy life if he thinks gang members shouldn't be disposed of in the quickest way. Once you've seen people killed right in front of you and have had friends shot for no reason you'd sing a different tune. It always amazing me how people can't understand something like "snitches get stitches" when they live in a nice neighborhood with real police protection. They don't understand that there are areas in the US where you have to be conscience of everyone around you so you don't accidentally look at someone the wrong way and end up getting hurt.

Yeaaaaaaaaaa. I get the whole "gangsters are the scum of the earth and deserve to die" thing somewhat. But really though this is just a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons.

1. The harmful effects on the minds of the witnesses of this. Witnessing things like murders can have extremely detrimental effects on the mental health of those that witness it.

2. Increased violence against police. If the police start shooting the gangs start shooting back. I HAVE seen a shootout between police and gang members before and if an officer shoots their friend and is going to shoot them too the gang members wont just sit there and take it. Not only that but If somebody kills a bangers brother then that dude will try and get revenge, especially if they know the police will do the same thing to them if they see them.

3. This could also evolve into massive wars between police and gangs. And the gangs generally would get the first shot off, considering the police would be driving around in cruisers and most of the time wearing uniforms.

4. It could also quite possibly raise racial tensions quite a bit because the vast majority of gang members are minorities and we really dont need to go to a minorities vs. whites situation again in this country.

I'm not saying gangs are a good thing. But the notion that police should just shoot gang members on sight is completely ludicrous.

The reasons you listed are exactly why we need to get rid of gang bangers. You don't have to kill them on the street in some shootout. You can start with those that are already in jail. Police should worry less about their safety and what their actions would cause and more about how their inaction has breed gang activity. Your reasoning is exactly why cops stay out of areas that are known gang hideouts. They don't want to get shot it. Isn't it their job to get rid of those gangs to make it safe for people that actually live there?

Okay so then you agree shooting on sight is a bad idea.

But man really? Police should worry less about their safety and what their actions would cause? That is completely insane.

And man if they really want anything positive to come out of this situation, then they should institute more programs to let prisoners get higher education while incarcerated. Many prisons nowadays have programs for them to get their GED's but nowadays that really doesnt qualify you to get a much better job than 10-12 bucks an hour and that most likely wouldnt be enough to motivate these guys to give up a life of crime and potentially actually help society instead of hurting it. Killing all the gangsters in prison will just leave a lot of bitter mothers and siblings, depressed their loved one chose the wrong life and wasnt given a second chance to try and make their lives right.

We should help gang bangers out by spending tax dollars to get them fixed up so they can lead a normal life? Do you know what the recidivism rate is for gang members? We have enough problems trying to get funding for healthcare, education, and basis infrastructure, but you're proposing we spend more money on a failed system?

As for police officers and keeping them safe how about they go out and stop more violent crime instead of hiding around corners to fill their ticket quota? They don't want to go into risky neighborhoods and do their job because they're afraid of getting shot. Then tell me who's job it is to curve gang violence when the police refuse to do it. Do you want the people living in those areas to take care of their own shit like they've been doing? That hasn't worked out well.

#102 Posted by Hunkulese (2642 posts) -

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

#103 Posted by Darkstorn (463 posts) -

Again, I live in Oakland and people are simply wrong about how dangerous it is.

I'm white, clean cut, and I walk all around the city. I've never been the target of a crime. Ever. Not even close. And I walk around with headphones in and a satchel slung over my shoulder. I nod at the homeless and down-and-out people and they nod back, often saying to have a good day.

The area you will be staying in is wealthy and overwhelmingly low crime, just take a look at Google Street View. The houses up in the hills are very nice, and homeless people tend to hang around downtown where they can get handouts from shoppers.

You're going to be fine, Oakland is far from the shithole people are making it out to be. If I were you, I'd explore it while I was in town, it has it's own working-class charm. The artist community here is younger and grittier than in San Fran, which has more of an NYC Bohemian hipster crowd. Oaktown has some awesome bars too!

#104 Edited by golguin (3842 posts) -

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

#105 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are low income for a reason?

And your last point about putting more money into a failed rehabilitation program doesn't sound so great either. The only real way to try to make a change is through prevention. You have to start young and try your best to prevent kids from going down the path of becoming a gang member because once they cross that line it can be damn near impossible to walk back. The gang culture can consume their whole life that they don't exactly have anywhere else to turn, inside or outside of prison.

#106 Posted by development (2066 posts) -

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are low income for a reason?

And your last point about putting more money into a failed rehabilitation program doesn't sound so great either. The only real way to try to make a change is through prevention. You have to start young and try your best to prevent kids from going down the path of becoming a gang member because once they cross that line it can be damn near impossible to walk back. The gang culture can consume their whole life that they don't exactly have anywhere else to turn, inside or outside of prison.

It's essentially a cult: anyone not a member doesn't matter; you don't leave; you do what you're told. I lived with a gang member for a year (didn't know it when we agreed to have him) and that shit (his friends, that culture/lifestyle, the way he did... everything) is just appalling on so many levels. If anyone wants to hear horror stories... well actually don't ask, because I'd like to forget that year ever happened.

#107 Edited by wjb (1637 posts) -

This thread sure did go places...

HAVE FUN DURING YOUR TRIP, GUYS! STAY SAFE AND TAKE PICZ!

#108 Edited by Hunkulese (2642 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

#109 Posted by golguin (3842 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

#110 Posted by Slag (3995 posts) -

@duskvamp: oh is he worried about getting carjacked or a Driveby? That still happens obviously across the country although it's a bit less en vogue than it was ten years ago. And it's not like you guys guys are going to Detroit, which for a while an insane number of then. And Detroit itself is a lot better than it used to be.

Personally I don't think you'll have any problems driving through Oakland. Drivebys and such can happen, but there's isn't really anything you can do to prevent that anywhere in America.

If you're worried about carjackings, stick to as many us routes and freeways as you can. When you need to get gas and such do it somewhere you feel ok. Avoid side streets with lots of stop lights and don't roll your windows down even if somebody is rapping on it. Most of those dudes are harmless, generally people who would do that just want a couple bucks to wash your windows or want to ask some random question. But you know no point in making it easy for a ne'er do well.

#111 Posted by OneManX (1680 posts) -

If you're kinda nervous about it... then the best option might be to just not go... I've been to Oakland a few times, but I am large black guy, so no one really gives me any static when I was walking around so...

Results May Vary?

#112 Posted by Undeadpool (4908 posts) -

@duskvamp: You've chosen a good area, just be sure that when you're actually coming into SF to take the right on-ramps and exits, it can get a little tricky knowing which highway you're on and which direction you're going on that highway. But yeah, don't be out too late and you'll be fine.

#113 Edited by Wrighteous86 (3738 posts) -

Man, this thread is BANANAS.

If you outlaw guns, than only outlaws will have guns. Street justice!

#114 Posted by Jams (2959 posts) -

Man, this thread is BANANAS.

If you outlaw guns, than only outlaws will have guns. Street justice!

This is how the story goes

#115 Edited by Darkstorn (463 posts) -

@undeadpool: SF is a very safe city. Average rent in SF is on par with Manhattan, so obviously gangbangers and hoodrats cannot afford it. The Tenderloin has homeless people, sure, but that's one tiny part of SF and they're too disenfranchised to be aggressive.

The only SF crime stat higher than the average U.S. city is home robbery and the OP isn't staying in SF. As I said, people have wayyyy overblown ideas of how dangerous Oakland and SF are. Take it from a local.

#116 Edited by Undeadpool (4908 posts) -

@darkstorn: I think you got the wrong end of the stick there, I'm saying that the stuff being said in this thread is titanically overblown and that the only REAL problems they're likely to face is navigating the highway system. I've lived in damn near every area of SF and never had (direct) problems. And I know multiple people who've lived in Oakland and likewise haven't had issue.

#117 Edited by Hunkulese (2642 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

#118 Posted by golguin (3842 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

No, you don't. Maybe you specifically have the option to pick up and move whenever you want at the drop of a dime, but there are millions of people who are stuck in their current household. You think that people living in a crime infested ghetto stay there because they love the violent atmosphere?

#119 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are lowincome for a reason?

I didn't know the concept of impoverished families was that hard to grasp.

#120 Posted by golguin (3842 posts) -

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

@colourful_hippie said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are lowincome for a reason?

I didn't know the concept of impoverished families was that hard to grasp.

Neither did I. I guess people who grew up with money can't comprehend a world where poor people exist. It must have been nice to grow up with so much money that the concept of "poor people" never even crosses your mind.

#121 Posted by YOU_DIED (702 posts) -

@duskvamp have you tried checking north of Oakland like Berkeley and El Cerrito? It's much nicer up there IMO, plus there's a BART stop nearby for easy access to downtown SF

#122 Posted by YOU_DIED (702 posts) -

@mcghee said:
@golguin said:

@mcghee said:

@golguin said:

@rorie said:
@mcghee said:

@duskvamp said:

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I checked out the crime rates and they don't look worrying in that area *touch wood*. From Google Street view it looks like a quiet cul-de-sac. We'll just be sure not to drive around downtown late at night and keep the doors locked.

@i_stay_puft: The thought of guns terrifies me. I'm sure they scare everyone, but being a quiet, little Brit that's never heard a real gun shot I'd probably hide under the bed for the whole trip if I heard some. First thing my mum told me when I said I was going to the US was "Be careful! They have guns there!!"

It's a cute little cottage though, and the reviews look really promising, so we are going to book it.

Thanks again everyone for your advice!

The vast majority of gun violence is from gangs. You don't really have anything to worry about . . . unless you randomly stumble into a gang war.

Unfortunately the new thing in the Bay Area is for people to walk up to someone, ask "You in a gang?" and then shoot them before they can even respond. That might be more of a SF thing, though.

Me and my cousin were approached by a guy who was driving by and stopped his car to see if we were members of a rival gang. He asked if we gang banged and what area we came from. We figured he had to have had a gun on him because any one of us would have been enough to smash this guy's face in. After a minute he decided we weren't in a gang and got in his car and left. This happened about a year ago.

It's stuff like that which makes me hope that for a law that allows for gang members to be killed on site by police. If they were as persistent in doing their job as they were with catching Chiristopher Dorner where it didn't matter if they shot up two women then our society would be a better place.

This might seriously be the dumbest fucking thing I've read at least 10 internet days. Let's give police executioner powers, like they don't shoot enough people already. Jesus Fucking Christ.

How many people have you seen killed in front of you?

What's even the point of this stupid question?

#123 Edited by Hunkulese (2642 posts) -

@golguin said:

@colourful_hippie said:
@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

@colourful_hippie said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are lowincome for a reason?

I didn't know the concept of impoverished families was that hard to grasp.

Neither did I. I guess people who grew up with money can't comprehend a world where poor people exist. It must have been nice to grow up with so much money that the concept of "poor people" never even crosses your mind.

You have no idea about my background so don't make assumptions.

You always have a choice where you live. It doesn't mean moving to a posh neighborhood but it does mean moving your family somewhere where they're not terrified to be outside. Like I said earlier their is a big difference between a bad neighborhood and what you're describing. Not every low income neighborhood is a warzone.

#124 Posted by golguin (3842 posts) -

@golguin said:

@colourful_hippie said:
@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

@colourful_hippie said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are lowincome for a reason?

I didn't know the concept of impoverished families was that hard to grasp.

Neither did I. I guess people who grew up with money can't comprehend a world where poor people exist. It must have been nice to grow up with so much money that the concept of "poor people" never even crosses your mind.

You have no idea about my background so don't make assumptions.

You always have a choice where you live. It doesn't mean moving to a posh neighborhood but it does mean moving your family somewhere where they're not terrified to be outside. Like I said earlier their is a big difference between a bad neighborhood and what you're describing. Not every low income neighborhood is a warzone.

You keep insisting that people do have a choice about where they live and yet you continue to fail to explain why people live in violent neighborhoods. If they truly had the choice to leave that terrible environment don't you think they would leave? I don't have any idea about your background, but your baffling comments leads me to believe you don't know what it's like to live poor and not have an option to move away. Here's a hint. I do know.

#125 Posted by Hunkulese (2642 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@colourful_hippie said:
@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

@colourful_hippie said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are lowincome for a reason?

I didn't know the concept of impoverished families was that hard to grasp.

Neither did I. I guess people who grew up with money can't comprehend a world where poor people exist. It must have been nice to grow up with so much money that the concept of "poor people" never even crosses your mind.

You have no idea about my background so don't make assumptions.

You always have a choice where you live. It doesn't mean moving to a posh neighborhood but it does mean moving your family somewhere where they're not terrified to be outside. Like I said earlier their is a big difference between a bad neighborhood and what you're describing. Not every low income neighborhood is a warzone.

You keep insisting that people do have a choice about where they live and yet you continue to fail to explain why people live in violent neighborhoods. If they truly had the choice to leave that terrible environment don't you think they would leave? I don't have any idea about your background, but your baffling comments leads me to believe you don't know what it's like to live poor and not have an option to move away. Here's a hint. I do know.

People continue to live in violent neighborhoods because they choose to live their and are unwilling to do what is necessary to find something better. If Oakland has zero neighborhoods for low income families that aren't war zones then get out of Oakland. I grew up poor but safe and happy because my mom wasn't about to raise us living in the middle of a gang battleground.

#126 Posted by golguin (3842 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@colourful_hippie said:
@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

@colourful_hippie said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are lowincome for a reason?

I didn't know the concept of impoverished families was that hard to grasp.

Neither did I. I guess people who grew up with money can't comprehend a world where poor people exist. It must have been nice to grow up with so much money that the concept of "poor people" never even crosses your mind.

You have no idea about my background so don't make assumptions.

You always have a choice where you live. It doesn't mean moving to a posh neighborhood but it does mean moving your family somewhere where they're not terrified to be outside. Like I said earlier their is a big difference between a bad neighborhood and what you're describing. Not every low income neighborhood is a warzone.

You keep insisting that people do have a choice about where they live and yet you continue to fail to explain why people live in violent neighborhoods. If they truly had the choice to leave that terrible environment don't you think they would leave? I don't have any idea about your background, but your baffling comments leads me to believe you don't know what it's like to live poor and not have an option to move away. Here's a hint. I do know.

People continue to live in violent neighborhoods because they choose to live their and are unwilling to do what is necessary to find something better. If Oakland has zero neighborhoods for low income families that aren't war zones then get out of Oakland. I grew up poor but safe and happy because my mom wasn't about to raise us living in the middle of a gang battleground.

So they are unwilling to do what is necessary to find something better eh? What is this "necessary" thing you speak of? It sounds like you have the answer, but are unwilling to share the solution to solving this whole low income family problem.

#127 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3738 posts) -

@golguin: They move to the suburbs and chase all the white people out, haha.

#128 Edited by golguin (3842 posts) -

@golguin: They move to the suburbs and chase all the white people out, haha.

You know that is more true than you can imagine. There used to be several areas in the city that people knew as "white areas" because there were more expensive homes there. They are now simply known as the "rich areas" because Mexicans moved in and the older white people didn't want to deal with that so they moved out.

#129 Posted by CaptainCharisma (339 posts) -

This page got depressing, here's hoping for a safe trip to you both. Just be on guard and I think you folks will be fine.

Do people still ghost ride the whip in Oakland or have I just outdated myself...?

So this is amazing. That is all.

#130 Posted by Hunkulese (2642 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@colourful_hippie said:
@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

@colourful_hippie said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are lowincome for a reason?

I didn't know the concept of impoverished families was that hard to grasp.

Neither did I. I guess people who grew up with money can't comprehend a world where poor people exist. It must have been nice to grow up with so much money that the concept of "poor people" never even crosses your mind.

You have no idea about my background so don't make assumptions.

You always have a choice where you live. It doesn't mean moving to a posh neighborhood but it does mean moving your family somewhere where they're not terrified to be outside. Like I said earlier their is a big difference between a bad neighborhood and what you're describing. Not every low income neighborhood is a warzone.

You keep insisting that people do have a choice about where they live and yet you continue to fail to explain why people live in violent neighborhoods. If they truly had the choice to leave that terrible environment don't you think they would leave? I don't have any idea about your background, but your baffling comments leads me to believe you don't know what it's like to live poor and not have an option to move away. Here's a hint. I do know.

People continue to live in violent neighborhoods because they choose to live their and are unwilling to do what is necessary to find something better. If Oakland has zero neighborhoods for low income families that aren't war zones then get out of Oakland. I grew up poor but safe and happy because my mom wasn't about to raise us living in the middle of a gang battleground.

So they are unwilling to do what is necessary to find something better eh? What is this "necessary" thing you speak of? It sounds like you have the answer, but are unwilling to share the solution to solving this whole low income family problem.

Are you really that ignorant? Doing what is necessary means doing what is necessary to not raise your family in a warzone. There's no step by step guide to show people what to do and everyone's situation is different. The one constant is that there is always a solution. I'm not going to make assumptions about your family so how do you expect me to give you the answer? I'm pretty sure you don't want to get into why your family was stuck living where they were on some silly internet forum.

#131 Edited by Hunkulese (2642 posts) -

@duskvamp: You're overreacting quite a bit. There is no city in the United States that is unsafe for tourists. Sure there are rough neighborhoods but you're not going to see them if you're doing touristy things and have made any kind of plan. There's also not really anything to worry about driving through these neighborhoods unless you're doing so at 3 in the morning and going out of your way to make people notice you. Don't overact to every bad thing you hear about a place. It's extremely rare for anyone (gang members included) to just kill some random person walking down the street.

As a tourist you're even safer because gangs aren't stupid. They know that if anything is going to increase police presence to a level that will matter to them it will be national coverage of some random tourist murdered for no reason.

#132 Posted by golguin (3842 posts) -

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@colourful_hippie said:
@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Why would anyone choose to live in a bad area? Are you being serious?

There's a difference between a bad area and this picture of hell you're trying to portray. There's is no way I would let my kids grow up in a neighborhood where people getting shot outside my front door was a common occurrence or if just being outside would make my kids terrified that anyone they looked at would shoot them. There is no reason to raise a family in that environment no matter how low your income is.

I see. If that's the case then why do people live in bad areas? You talk as if people always have a choice in choosing where to live.

You do always have a choice of where you live.

@colourful_hippie said:

@hunkulese said:

@golguin: If everything is as bad as you say it is why would your parents choose to raise a family in that neighborhood?

Have you ever considered the fact that those neighborhoods are lowincome for a reason?

I didn't know the concept of impoverished families was that hard to grasp.

Neither did I. I guess people who grew up with money can't comprehend a world where poor people exist. It must have been nice to grow up with so much money that the concept of "poor people" never even crosses your mind.

You have no idea about my background so don't make assumptions.

You always have a choice where you live. It doesn't mean moving to a posh neighborhood but it does mean moving your family somewhere where they're not terrified to be outside. Like I said earlier their is a big difference between a bad neighborhood and what you're describing. Not every low income neighborhood is a warzone.

You keep insisting that people do have a choice about where they live and yet you continue to fail to explain why people live in violent neighborhoods. If they truly had the choice to leave that terrible environment don't you think they would leave? I don't have any idea about your background, but your baffling comments leads me to believe you don't know what it's like to live poor and not have an option to move away. Here's a hint. I do know.

People continue to live in violent neighborhoods because they choose to live their and are unwilling to do what is necessary to find something better. If Oakland has zero neighborhoods for low income families that aren't war zones then get out of Oakland. I grew up poor but safe and happy because my mom wasn't about to raise us living in the middle of a gang battleground.

So they are unwilling to do what is necessary to find something better eh? What is this "necessary" thing you speak of? It sounds like you have the answer, but are unwilling to share the solution to solving this whole low income family problem.

Are you really that ignorant? Doing what is necessary means doing what is necessary to not raise your family in a warzone. There's no step by step guide to show people what to do and everyone's situation is different. The one constant is that there is always a solution. I'm not going to make assumptions about your family so how do you expect me to give you the answer? I'm pretty sure you don't want to get into why your family was stuck living where they were on some silly internet forum.

You're obviously implying that my family didn't do what was necessary to raise my sister and me in a different environment. Maybe my dad should have made more money so we could live in a safer area? Maybe he shouldn't have been born in Mexico and leave for the US with a grade school education because he was forced to work as a kid? I have no problem talking about my childhood and how my family lived in a single bedroom place because that was what they could afford.

I can't understand your insistence that families should simply do "what is necessary to not raise your family in a warzone." You make it sound so simple. I'm sorry that I can't find the simplicity in doing the necessary thing so I'd like you to explain it to me.

#133 Posted by Levio (1783 posts) -

In America, two-thirds of all gun-based deaths are suicides. So just keep a gun out of your hands and you can improve your survival rate quite a bit.

#134 Edited by DuskVamp (681 posts) -

@hunkulese: I don't think it's overreacting to ask if this is a safe area of what is supposedly one of the most dangerous cities in the US to stay in for a week. I already said right near the start that we decided to book it cos we thought we'd be safe and I wasn't worried about driving through that part of town.

#136 Posted by Fattony12000 (7040 posts) -

Crime is confusing. Crime is confusing.

#138 Posted by Matt (957 posts) -

As someone who is also planning a trip to SF and staying in Oakland this thread has done a good job of scaring the shit out of me.

#140 Edited by Wrighteous86 (3738 posts) -

We've successfully survived half a day in Oakland. Even popped down to the local supermarket and back in one piece. Six days to go. Wish us luck!

#141 Posted by wjb (1637 posts) -

Yay!

"Don't get captured."

#142 Edited by Wrighteous86 (3738 posts) -

Don't worry. I've beaten Tomb Raider. I think I know a little something about surviving hostile environs.

#143 Posted by Hunter5024 (5538 posts) -

@wrighteous86 said:

Don't worry. I've beaten Tomb Raider. I think I know a little something about surviving hostile environs.

In that case Oakland should be worried about surviving you.

#144 Posted by TyCobb (1945 posts) -

I am curious how the road trip was. I figured there would have been updates on that. That's most of the fun.