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#1 Posted by dudeglove (8142 posts) -

Any North American duders out there affected by all the riots in Montreal and elsewhere? If anyone else is not aware, basically since February, what started as student fee protests have descended into full scale clashes with police.

#2 Posted by scalpel (314 posts) -

And here was I thinking Canadians only rioted about hockey.

#3 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

Yeah. I was killed in them.

#4 Posted by Foghorn6 (35 posts) -

RIP CL60

#5 Posted by IAmNotBatman (658 posts) -

@CL60: Do they have videogames in the afterlife? Seeing as you're here and all...

#6 Edited by Kidavenger (3599 posts) -

Canadians getting upset about our heavily government subsidized tuition is hilarious. Anyone that deserves to be in university has a scholarship or can afford it, the rest are just wasting 4 years.

Edit:

Tuition in Canada, McGill University $4,132 per year Bcomm http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees

Tuition in the US, UCLA $12,686 per year http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/budget.htm

And somehow Canadians are the ones rioting.

If you can't afford tuition in Canada, you probably also aren't well connected and will have a terrible time finding a job and will probably either endup in retail or some other entry level job that doesn't require university or even end up like this loser http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/rob-carrick/a-29-year-old-on-the-difficulties-of-landing-a-first-job/article2434807/

Too many people go to university in Canada because it's cheap and there are almost no entry requirements(you need a 60% average in your last year of high school) and end up saddled with debt and job prospects no better than what they would have found had they gone straight into the workforce.

#7 Posted by Floope (193 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

Canadians getting upset about our heavily government subsidized tuition is hilarious. Anyone that deserves to be in university has a scholarship or can afford it, the rest are just wasting 4 years.

That's some terrible reasoning.

#8 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

I've not even heard about it.

#9 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -
@IAmNotBatman

@CL60: Do they have videogames in the afterlife? Seeing as you're here and all...

Unfortunately, there is only 1 game. Turns out this is where they put all the copies of E.T
#10 Edited by ashleychittock (136 posts) -

Rioting over $4000 tuition? In Europe we don't riot for any less than £9000. No I'm serious.

#11 Posted by Bwast (1342 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

Canadians getting upset about our heavily government subsidized tuition is hilarious. Anyone that deserves to be in university has a scholarship or can afford it, the rest are just wasting 4 years.

Edit:

Tuition in Canada, McGill University $4,132 per year Bcomm http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees

Tuition in the US, UCLA $12,686 per year http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/budget.htm

And somehow Canadians are the ones rioting.

If you can't afford tuition in Canada, you probably also aren't well connected and will have a terrible time finding a job and will probably either endup in retail or some other entry level job that doesn't require university or even end up like this loser http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/rob-carrick/a-29-year-old-on-the-difficulties-of-landing-a-first-job/article2434807/

Too many people go to university in Canada because it's cheap and there are almost no entry requirements(you need a 60% average in your last year of high school) and end up saddled with debt and job prospects no better than what they would have found had they gone straight into the workforce.

They're protesting because the Quebec Government is planning to raise the tuition over the next 5 years, not because they're too high now. You seem to like facts but that's a very key fact that you seem to be ignorant of.

#12 Posted by Sweep (8948 posts) -

Bloody Canadians, jumping on the bandwagon!

Moderator
#13 Posted by Kidavenger (3599 posts) -

@Bwast said:

@Kidavenger said:

Canadians getting upset about our heavily government subsidized tuition is hilarious. Anyone that deserves to be in university has a scholarship or can afford it, the rest are just wasting 4 years.

Edit:

Tuition in Canada, McGill University $4,132 per year Bcomm http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees

Tuition in the US, UCLA $12,686 per year http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/budget.htm

And somehow Canadians are the ones rioting.

If you can't afford tuition in Canada, you probably also aren't well connected and will have a terrible time finding a job and will probably either endup in retail or some other entry level job that doesn't require university or even end up like this loser http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/rob-carrick/a-29-year-old-on-the-difficulties-of-landing-a-first-job/article2434807/

Too many people go to university in Canada because it's cheap and there are almost no entry requirements(you need a 60% average in your last year of high school) and end up saddled with debt and job prospects no better than what they would have found had they gone straight into the workforce.

They're protesting because the Quebec Government is planning to raise the tuition over the next 5 years, not because they're too high now. You seem to like facts but that's a very key fact that you seem to be ignorant of.

No shit, they should be going up, everything else is, maybe you think the professors and service staff should never get raises? Please enlighten us with what they are expected to be in 5 years? $4500? $5000? wow, outrageous!

#14 Edited by No0b0rAmA (1490 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

Too many people go to university in Canada because it's cheap and there are almost no entry requirements(you need a 60% average in your last year of high school) and end up saddled with debt and job prospects no better than what they would have found had they gone straight into the workforce.

What kind of shitty program did you go into? 60% average? You can barely get into some college college programs with those grades.

#15 Edited by Bwast (1342 posts) -

@Kidavenger: Everything goes up while income stays the same. Gee I wonder why they're opposed to this? The actual numbers are something like 75% over 5 years. Granted, not a huge spike in pure dollars but for a University student barely making ends meet, that extra $1,000-1,500 is a lot of money when you have food, transportation and housing to look after. But, that's no big deal, according to you if they can't afford it, they don't deserve to be there to begin with.

#16 Posted by Herocide (443 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

@Bwast said:

@Kidavenger said:

Canadians getting upset about our heavily government subsidized tuition is hilarious. Anyone that deserves to be in university has a scholarship or can afford it, the rest are just wasting 4 years.

Edit:

Tuition in Canada, McGill University $4,132 per year Bcomm http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees

Tuition in the US, UCLA $12,686 per year http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/budget.htm

And somehow Canadians are the ones rioting.

If you can't afford tuition in Canada, you probably also aren't well connected and will have a terrible time finding a job and will probably either endup in retail or some other entry level job that doesn't require university or even end up like this loser http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/rob-carrick/a-29-year-old-on-the-difficulties-of-landing-a-first-job/article2434807/

Too many people go to university in Canada because it's cheap and there are almost no entry requirements(you need a 60% average in your last year of high school) and end up saddled with debt and job prospects no better than what they would have found had they gone straight into the workforce.

They're protesting because the Quebec Government is planning to raise the tuition over the next 5 years, not because they're too high now. You seem to like facts but that's a very key fact that you seem to be ignorant of.

No shit, they should be going up, everything else is, maybe you think the professors and service staff should never get raises? Please enlighten us with what they are expected to be in 5 years? $4500? $5000? wow, outrageous!

I'd like to point out that McGill is one of the cheaper universities tuition-wise in Canada and is by no means an average or standard by any measure. I live in Nova Scotia (heralded as the Education Province due to our many universities and colleges) and tuition is not that cheap. Most of the schools around here range from 6k to 8k/year for an undergrad. You may as well compare community college to Harvard.

#17 Posted by mosespippy (4366 posts) -

@Kidavenger: Tuition will increase $1625 in Quebec over the next 5 years. From a percentage point of view that is a huge jump. The riots right now aren't about tuition costs though. The protests over tuition have been going on for 100 days now. Every once in a while I'd see news articles saying there were around 100 arrests at the protests. The provincial government has now rushed through anti protest legislation that has been criticized as being a violation of the charter of rights and freedoms. A few days ago under the new law they arrested 500 students. I'd estimate that since February around 1500-2000 students have been arrested.

#18 Posted by dudeglove (8142 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

And somehow Canadians are the ones rioting.

It's ballooned well past just tuition fee hikes, and for good reason. The Quebec government is passing/has passed a draconian law - under the pretext of "emergency" - to fine protestors up to thousands of dollars.

The new emergency legislation says that any individual protester found guilty of an offense that forces the cancellation of classes would be liable to a fine of $1,000 to $5,000. If the offense is committed by a senior officer or representative of a student group or federation, the fine could be as much as $35,000. The bill includes a requirement to report to police in advance of any public demonstration over 50 people. The protests are aimed at making a mockery of this gross violation of the right to free assembly. Been described as worse than the War Measures Act of 1970.

Some universities are blocking students from studying altogether on top of the class boycotts.

@McGhee: It's kind of bizarre the whole thing isn't getting much attention outside of Canada. Pales in comparison to the OWS bunch arsing around on Union Square.

@scalpel: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/05/hockey-fans-throwing-weird-crap-ice-city-city-breakdown/1992/

#19 Edited by MattyFTM (14423 posts) -

@Sweep said:

Bloody Canadians, jumping on the bandwagon!

Yeah, us Brits rioted about tuition fees before it was cool!!!

Moderator
#20 Posted by MacEG (256 posts) -

I think the title of this thread should be, "So, uh... Canadian riots, ey?"

#21 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

<Insert random joke about Canadians here>

Fight da power!

#22 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18954 posts) -
@MacEG said:

I think the title of this thread should be, "So, uh... Canadian riots, ey?"

#23 Posted by Tylea002 (2295 posts) -

@MattyFTM said:

@Sweep said:

Bloody Canadians, jumping on the bandwagon!

Yeah, us Brits rioted about tuition fees before it was cool!!!

I was in London when they wrote the letter A and hit the window of that HSBC round the corner from forbidden planet.

Those daring teenagers, what will they think of next?

#24 Posted by Kidavenger (3599 posts) -

@Herocide said:

I'd like to point out that McGill is one of the cheaper universities tuition-wise in Canada and is by no means an average or standard by any measure. I live in Nova Scotia (heralded as the Education Province due to our many universities and colleges) and tuition is not that cheap. Most of the schools around here range from 6k to 8k/year for an undergrad. You may as well compare community college to Harvard.

So the tuition at the school where most of the protesters go is not only much less than the US, it's also much less than other universities in Canada; essentially the lowest tuition in north america; these are the ones protesting...

#25 Posted by Hailinel (25201 posts) -

@mosespippy said:

@Kidavenger: Tuition will increase $1625 in Quebec over the next 5 years. From a percentage point of view that is a huge jump. The riots right now aren't about tuition costs though. The protests over tuition have been going on for 100 days now. Every once in a while I'd see news articles saying there were around 100 arrests at the protests. The provincial government has now rushed through anti protest legislation that has been criticized as being a violation of the charter of rights and freedoms. A few days ago under the new law they arrested 500 students. I'd estimate that since February around 1500-2000 students have been arrested.

From an American standpoint, that's still a hilariously stupid thing to protest given what college tuition costs here.

#26 Edited by Sumbog (496 posts) -

In Alberta we pay higher university tuition, and on top of that we get to pay for the tuition subsidy's in Quebec, its a great system.

#27 Posted by 49th (2813 posts) -

£9000 fees represent! 
I didn't riot anyway because I got in before the increase. 

#28 Posted by dudeglove (8142 posts) -

@Sumbog said:

In Alberta we pay higher university tuition, and on top of that we get to pay for the tuition subsidy's in Quebec, its a great system.

I've heard about that too, in the sense that the rest of Canada (non-Quebecois) are pissed off at the francophones wanting it both ways. Commentators are likening it to the current state of Germany and Greece.

#29 Posted by Drakoji (230 posts) -

You have to understand why our tuition fees are so cheap is because we are the most taxed province in Canada.

And like some people said, this is not a protest/riot about tuition fees anymore, it became a fight where all of those in Québec who feels wronged by their government joins the students in the streets to fight the state. And that's a problem because the students who was protesting now don't really have a way to fight for their cause since the protests about ten or more things rather than tuition fees.

#30 Posted by heatDrive88 (2381 posts) -

@dudeglove said:

@Sumbog said:

In Alberta we pay higher university tuition, and on top of that we get to pay for the tuition subsidy's in Quebec, its a great system.

I've heard about that too, in the sense that the rest of Canada (non-Quebecois) are pissed off at the francophones wanting it both ways. Commentators are likening it to the current state of Germany and Greece.

Francophones always want it both ways in their favour. It's a mirror-image of Quebec Sovereignty referendums all over again.

#31 Posted by mosespippy (4366 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@mosespippy said:

@Kidavenger: Tuition will increase $1625 in Quebec over the next 5 years. From a percentage point of view that is a huge jump. The riots right now aren't about tuition costs though. The protests over tuition have been going on for 100 days now. Every once in a while I'd see news articles saying there were around 100 arrests at the protests. The provincial government has now rushed through anti protest legislation that has been criticized as being a violation of the charter of rights and freedoms. A few days ago under the new law they arrested 500 students. I'd estimate that since February around 1500-2000 students have been arrested.

From an American standpoint, that's still a hilariously stupid thing to protest given what college tuition costs here.

American tuition only costs that much because no one bothers to object when costs increase. I'm sure that if no one raised a stink about costs increasing here then the costs would continue to go up until it was unaffordable. The universities here have most of their costs covered by the government. Thats why the cost to students is so low compared to American schools. This move is seen as the government trying to save money at the expense of students.

#32 Posted by Animasta (14718 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@mosespippy said:

@Kidavenger: Tuition will increase $1625 in Quebec over the next 5 years. From a percentage point of view that is a huge jump. The riots right now aren't about tuition costs though. The protests over tuition have been going on for 100 days now. Every once in a while I'd see news articles saying there were around 100 arrests at the protests. The provincial government has now rushed through anti protest legislation that has been criticized as being a violation of the charter of rights and freedoms. A few days ago under the new law they arrested 500 students. I'd estimate that since February around 1500-2000 students have been arrested.

From an American standpoint, that's still a hilariously stupid thing to protest given what college tuition costs here.

this just shows Canadians actually care about higher education while we don't.

#33 Posted by Drebin_893 (2926 posts) -

@ashleychittock: And even that shit was dumb.

Online
#34 Posted by Heylook (235 posts) -

America is dumb.

#35 Posted by Hunkulese (2835 posts) -

I don't see how you can call why they're doing rioting.

#36 Posted by ashleychittock (136 posts) -

@49th said:

I didn't riot anyway because I got in before the increase.

Word up, same. 1992 was a good year to be born. Young enough to ride the tidal wave of pokemon, old enough to avoid going into adulthood with 40k of debt. aww yeah.

#37 Edited by Pr1mus (3959 posts) -

@Drakoji said:

You have to understand why our tuition fees are so cheap is because we are the most taxed province in Canada.

And like some people said, this is not a protest/riot about tuition fees anymore, it became a fight where all of those in Québec who feels wronged by their government joins the students in the streets to fight the state. And that's a problem because the students who was protesting now don't really have a way to fight for their cause since the protests about ten or more things rather than tuition fees.

This.

People that don't understand the real situation here probably shouldn't comment. Comments like "Hey my country is fucking garbage so you better not complain that your country is headed this way too!" aren't exactly constructive. Sorry to you Americans if it makes you mad that we don't feel like our country becoming a mess like yours.

I'd add that a system where students leave school with a degree and reading to go to work and without starting in life bankrupted is a pretty good system and its worth defending it.

#38 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@mosespippy said:

@Kidavenger: Tuition will increase $1625 in Quebec over the next 5 years. From a percentage point of view that is a huge jump. The riots right now aren't about tuition costs though. The protests over tuition have been going on for 100 days now. Every once in a while I'd see news articles saying there were around 100 arrests at the protests. The provincial government has now rushed through anti protest legislation that has been criticized as being a violation of the charter of rights and freedoms. A few days ago under the new law they arrested 500 students. I'd estimate that since February around 1500-2000 students have been arrested.

From an American standpoint, that's still a hilariously stupid thing to protest given what college tuition costs here.

We should be the ones protesting. College tuition is insanely, unfairly expensive here. I was lucky enough to have most of mine paid for. I feel sorry for all the people who get out of college $20-30,000 in debt.

#39 Posted by BraveToaster (12588 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

Canadians getting upset about our heavily government subsidized tuition is hilarious. Anyone that deserves to be in university has a scholarship or can afford it, the rest are just wasting 4 years.

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

#40 Posted by Winternet (8035 posts) -

I thought these were considered normal.

#41 Posted by Gargantuan (1887 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@mosespippy said:

@Kidavenger: Tuition will increase $1625 in Quebec over the next 5 years. From a percentage point of view that is a huge jump. The riots right now aren't about tuition costs though. The protests over tuition have been going on for 100 days now. Every once in a while I'd see news articles saying there were around 100 arrests at the protests. The provincial government has now rushed through anti protest legislation that has been criticized as being a violation of the charter of rights and freedoms. A few days ago under the new law they arrested 500 students. I'd estimate that since February around 1500-2000 students have been arrested.

From an American standpoint, that's still a hilariously stupid thing to protest given what college tuition costs here.

From a Swedish standpoint it's hilarious that Americans complain about gasoline prices when it's twice as expensive here.

#42 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

So like trashing stores and destroying cars and stuff like that for no reason? 
 
"Hey that's not true, there's totally a reason that I destroyed some old couples shop and their car and other peoples property!"  
Fuck off

#43 Posted by Animasta (14718 posts) -

@Gargantuan said:

@Hailinel said:

@mosespippy said:

@Kidavenger: Tuition will increase $1625 in Quebec over the next 5 years. From a percentage point of view that is a huge jump. The riots right now aren't about tuition costs though. The protests over tuition have been going on for 100 days now. Every once in a while I'd see news articles saying there were around 100 arrests at the protests. The provincial government has now rushed through anti protest legislation that has been criticized as being a violation of the charter of rights and freedoms. A few days ago under the new law they arrested 500 students. I'd estimate that since February around 1500-2000 students have been arrested.

From an American standpoint, that's still a hilariously stupid thing to protest given what college tuition costs here.

From a Swedish standpoint it's hilarious that Americans complain about gasoline prices when it's twice as expensive here.

yeah well you have decent public transportation systems

#44 Posted by Strife777 (1610 posts) -
@ZeForgotten
So like trashing stores and destroying cars and stuff like that for no reason? 
 
"Hey that's not true, there's totally a reason that I destroyed some old couples shop and their car and other peoples property!"  
Fuck off
Most riots are started by a small group of people who are generally not even there for the "cause", just there to start trouble while there's a lot of people around so there's less chance of getting arrested. The vast majority of protesters do it peacefully.
#45 Edited by NegativeCero (3024 posts) -

Apparently they passed a law in Quebec that limits students' ability to demonstrate. Other than that, I don't know much about it, besides it being about tuition being raised. Link

#46 Posted by SomeJerk (3361 posts) -

They have very good reasons to be angry, but the rioting assholes, especially the ones who go there from other countries, just to riot, need to be taken care of. Their rich white academic parents don't care for them, maybe we should.

#47 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -
@Strife777 said:
@ZeForgotten
So like trashing stores and destroying cars and stuff like that for no reason? 
 
"Hey that's not true, there's totally a reason that I destroyed some old couples shop and their car and other peoples property!"  
Fuck off
Most riots are started by a small group of people who are generally not even there for the "cause", just there to start trouble while there's a lot of people around so there's less chance of getting arrested. The vast majority of protesters do it peacefully.
Oh no doubt, I was just wondering if it was at that stage where people who just wanna cause trouble had joined.  
But yeah, starts out peacefully but then some "total badass motherfuckers" join and start destroying things while wearing masks because, you know, they're not really badass and then don't want mommy to find out.  
#48 Posted by MarkWahlberg (4606 posts) -

@mosespippy said:

American tuition only costs that much because no one bothers to object when costs increase. I'm sure that if no one raised a stink about costs increasing here then the costs would continue to go up until it was unaffordable. The universities here have most of their costs covered by the government. Thats why the cost to students is so low compared to American schools. This move is seen as the government trying to save money at the expense of students.

Aside from being totally untrue, that's a very poor explanation of how things work in terms of financial shtuff. We can and do raise a stink all the time, but that hasn't stopped schools from getting their state funding cut in half, or prevented schools from giving preference to out-of-state students who have to pay twice as much, or a million other things that drive up the price barrier. This issue is way more complicated than 'Americans just need to get stop being so submissive'.

#49 Posted by iAmJohn (6131 posts) -

@MarkWahlberg said:

@mosespippy said:

American tuition only costs that much because no one bothers to object when costs increase. I'm sure that if no one raised a stink about costs increasing here then the costs would continue to go up until it was unaffordable. The universities here have most of their costs covered by the government. Thats why the cost to students is so low compared to American schools. This move is seen as the government trying to save money at the expense of students.

Aside from being totally untrue, that's a very poor explanation of how things work in terms of financial shtuff. We can and do raise a stink all the time, but that hasn't stopped schools from getting their state funding cut in half, or prevented schools from giving preference to out-of-state students who have to pay twice as much, or a million other things that drive up the price barrier. This issue is way more complicated than 'Americans just need to get stop being so submissive'.

The bigger issue are for-profit universities - like my wonderful alma mater Boston University - who spend millions of dollars willy-nilly on ridiculous overpriced vanity projects, demand tuition be raised every year to pay for said vanity projects, and then lobby against state governments against passing laws forcing for-profit universities to be more transparent with what they do with their money. We've gotten to a point where these schools are practically the only game in town if you want a degree of "value" and we let them control everything to make as easy and quick a buck as possible since they know that the majority of the money is probably going to come from the government anyway.

#50 Posted by deathstriker666 (1337 posts) -

@mosespippy said:

American tuition only costs that much because no one bothers to object when costs increase. I'm sure that if no one raised a stink about costs increasing here then the costs would continue to go up until it was unaffordable. The universities here have most of their costs covered by the government. Thats why the cost to students is so low compared to American schools. This move is seen as the government trying to save money at the expense of students.

Nevermind the paramilitary we call a civic police force. Or the fact the Government is heavily influenced by Corporate interests backed up with legal bribery. Nope, it's because Americans are fat and lazy