For sure. I would also like to throw out that Evangelion (though Gainax has made some of my favorite animes) is the worst anime ever. some one had to say it. "
I used to be the person that always shunned anime for the usual cliches associated with it. Then an ex of mine showed me some Cowboy Bebop episodes and movies like Spirited Away and Howls Moving Castle, and I really enjoyed them. I've also been watching Samurai Champloo, and I really think it is a great series. There are a few others that I want to see as well, but I also know that a lot of the anime out there is definitely not for me. So I guess its like the others are saying, there is plenty to like and not to like, it just depends on your preference is all.
For sure. I would also like to throw out that Evangelion (though Gainax has made some of my favorite animes) is the worst anime ever. some one had to say it. "
Thank you. I HATE Evangelion. "
Well Evangelion lost its way, story wise because the director was in therapy for the whole of the production and the story suffered as a result. I wouldn't say it's the worst anime ever, I just say it's definitely one of the wierdest ever. Deckchairs.
If I viewed anime through the spectrum of its most popular shows, I would think its awful too. Most anime is awful and most anime fans are into the awful anime. If you want that general impression people have of anime to change make something that isn't Bleach/Sailor Moon/Naruto/DBZ-esc wildly popular. And if that's the kind of shit you like, just take your lumps because the impression people have is accurate as far as shit like that goes. Why should people think of something like Cowboy Bebop first when that's not at all a typical show or even a popular one compared to the above mentioned shows? As if Bebop is anything other than an exception to the rule. You can't just point at the one exceptional show that comes out every 4 years and say "see all anime is awsome".
I don't care whether people think it's shitty or think I'm a creep or idiot for watching anime. I enjoy it, so I'm going to watch it. People that stereotype anime-watchers (I guess that's an alright term?) are just like the people that all of us hate - the idiots on mainstream media outlets that are always shitting on video games, and blaming everything on video games. They make a judgment on it by a very small amount of what they've watched and think it's all the same because most people who aren't actually into anime at least slightly think it's all weird school-girl melodramatic kiddie-porn bullshit. Which is certainly is not.
Also: @Delta_Ass:
Looks exactly the same to me and exactly as you described all anime looking like!
Edit: Also, I'm not trying to say there isn't anime like you described, but that's not the stuff you should judge anime as a whole by.
" @SeriouslyNow: Something tells me that you do not understand the nature of evidence. A negative comment on a medium as a whole is exactly when examples are moot. Negative claims are inherently difficult to provide evidence for as they are generally built on the lack of evidence for a corresponding positive claim. Were I to list thirty examples that were quite the same (and if you've seen anime you know that this would not be a difficult task), it would be irrelevant. One could simply respond that their similarities have no bearing on the thousands of entries in the medium (and they would be correct). It is incumbent upon those arguing that anime is a medium of variety that have the burden of proof. While it is true that examples are useless for my argument, I will admit to having a poor working memory of anime. I've seen perhaps fifty films and thirty series (the latter often consisting of a single episode), but it all runs together. The lack of variety and quality combined with a lack of immediate familiarity makes it difficult to recall titles that I didn't enjoy. What little I did enjoy is hardly relevant, as its the same crap damned near anyone enjoys. Your take on variety seems to be genre-based, but mine is on execution. Particular situations occur far too frequently and are handled in the same way damned near every time. Hell, the framing has become so repeated that ostensibly interesting shots have become banal as hell. Be it a shot of the protagonist walking down a dark alley with his hands in his pockets drawn from rooftop height, the why protagonist being awkward with the girl, the abilities that characters suddenly develop with no explanation, or any of the other tropes, there just isn't as much innovation as there should be. In the '80s, many directors were experimental and tried new things. Based on their success, though, the industry is mired in copy/paste. "
Something tells me that your head is so far up your bumhole that you think you're more than a match for my intellect. You're not, so drop the pretense of educator and stop the strawman delivery drop as a means to avoid actual examples which I asked for.
All of that and I mean ALL of it was just general, wave of my magic wand distraction garbage. If you want to be seen to be intelligent, prove it, otherwise stop wasting my time and kindly remove yourself from my line of vision. You're getting in the way of some good porn.
" If I viewed anime through the spectrum of its most popular shows, I would think its awful too. Most anime is awful and most anime fans are into the awful anime. If you want that general impression people have of anime to change make something that isn't Bleach/Sailor Moon/Naruto/DBZ-esc wildly popular. And if that's the kind of shit you like, just take your lumps because the impression people have is accurate as far as shit like that goes. Why should people think of something like Cowboy Bebop first when that's not at all a typical show or even a popular one compared to the above mentioned shows? As if Bebop is anything other than an exception to the rule. You can't just point at the one exceptional show that comes out every 4 years and say "see all anime is awsome". "
I don't think anyone in this thread is citing Cowboy Bebop as a show to prove that all anime is awesome. Only that there are shows of high quality in the inevitable sea of mediocrity that consumes any medium.
" @Hailinel: Never saw any "uncut versions" (not sure if they exist), but the censoring/editing was a bummer. The super high pitched Goku voice got annoying enough to him that it justified taking edits/censoring over the worse main character VA. "
I remember when people in grade school used to say there was an uncut version of DBZ that had sex scenes. Yeah. How dumb was that?
" what's up with it? Anime is for jerks, that's what. "
At no point was that joke ever funny or clever.
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @DarkShaper said:
" @Cloneslayer said:
For sure. I would also like to throw out that Evangelion (though Gainax has made some of my favorite animes) is the worst anime ever. some one had to say it. "
Thank you. I HATE Evangelion. "
Well Evangelion lost its way, story wise because the director was in therapy for the whole of the production and the story suffered as a result. I wouldn't say it's the worst anime ever, I just say it's definitely one of the wierdest ever. Deckchairs. "
Now that you mention it it's not the worst anime ever.
" @SeriouslyNow: Something tells me that you do not understand the nature of evidence. A negative comment on a medium as a whole is exactly when examples are moot. Negative claims are inherently difficult to provide evidence for as they are generally built on the lack of evidence for a corresponding positive claim. Were I to list thirty examples that were quite the same (and if you've seen anime you know that this would not be a difficult task), it would be irrelevant. One could simply respond that their similarities have no bearing on the thousands of entries in the medium (and they would be correct). It is incumbent upon those arguing that anime is a medium of variety that have the burden of proof. While it is true that examples are useless for my argument, I will admit to having a poor working memory of anime. I've seen perhaps fifty films and thirty series (the latter often consisting of a single episode), but it all runs together. The lack of variety and quality combined with a lack of immediate familiarity makes it difficult to recall titles that I didn't enjoy. What little I did enjoy is hardly relevant, as its the same crap damned near anyone enjoys. Your take on variety seems to be genre-based, but mine is on execution. Particular situations occur far too frequently and are handled in the same way damned near every time. Hell, the framing has become so repeated that ostensibly interesting shots have become banal as hell. Be it a shot of the protagonist walking down a dark alley with his hands in his pockets drawn from rooftop height, the why protagonist being awkward with the girl, the abilities that characters suddenly develop with no explanation, or any of the other tropes, there just isn't as much innovation as there should be. In the '80s, many directors were experimental and tried new things. Based on their success, though, the industry is mired in copy/paste. "
Something tells me that your head is so far up your bumhole that you think you're more than a match for my intellect. You're not, so drop the pretense of educator and stop the strawman delivery drop as a means to avoid actual examples which I asked for.
All of that and I mean ALL of it was just general, wave of my magic wand distraction garbage. If you want to be seen to be intelligent, prove it, otherwise stop wasting my time and kindly remove yourself from my line of vision. You're getting in the way of some good porn. "
ChristOnIce really isn't worth interacting with. He always comes in a thread acting like he's the most knowledgeable person to ever grace the topic at hand, and then just spews bullshit trying to sound smart.
" @Hailinel: Never saw any "uncut versions" (not sure if they exist), but the censoring/editing was a bummer. The super high pitched Goku voice got annoying enough to him that it justified taking edits/censoring over the worse main character VA. "
I remember when people in grade school used to say there was an uncut version of DBZ that had sex scenes. Yeah. How dumb was that? "
DBZ never had sex scenes but the manga and early anime was rife sexual allusions (virility being the most common) and gross sexual humour.
" @Hailinel: Never saw any "uncut versions" (not sure if they exist), but the censoring/editing was a bummer. The super high pitched Goku voice got annoying enough to him that it justified taking edits/censoring over the worse main character VA. "
I remember when people in grade school used to say there was an uncut version of DBZ that had sex scenes. Yeah. How dumb was that? "
My friend used to always tell me that, and I would always believe him.
" Evangelion is fine, its just not the best thing ever. "
Agreed. It's an interesting, entertaining show. Not the best thing ever, and who knows how it might have turned out had Anno not fallen into serious depression during the production. It gets a lot of flack for its ending, and then the movie that redoes the ending in an even crazier fashion, but at the same time it's far from terrible.
@Delta_Ass: There's PLENTY more anime out there that's very good and not cliche. I'm not sure why I would spend more than 5 minutes gathering photos though, as it's obviously not going to change your opinion.
" what's up with it? Anime is for jerks, that's what. "
At no point was that joke ever funny or clever.
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @DarkShaper said:
" @Cloneslayer said:
For sure. I would also like to throw out that Evangelion (though Gainax has made some of my favorite animes) is the worst anime ever. some one had to say it. "
Thank you. I HATE Evangelion. "
Well Evangelion lost its way, story wise because the director was in therapy for the whole of the production and the story suffered as a result. I wouldn't say it's the worst anime ever, I just say it's definitely one of the wierdest ever. Deckchairs. "
Now that you mention it it's not the worst anime ever. "
Yeah that was bad but it was just a modernised re-imagining of this.
" It's more the fans than the actual material that I dislike. You guys might be normal, but take a step back and just look at anime fans as a whole. "
What would you define as normal? I for one may not seem normal to many people, but to other anime fans I am. "
Normal people can function in society and can relate to people about things other than anime/japan. They have hobbies that don't involve watching fansubs or translations of scans or anything like that.
EDIT: They have friends that exist outside of the internet, and enjoy the time spent doing things that aren't online.
The biggest turnoff for me has always been the lack of variety in simple motions. Things like walking and talking seem to only have several frames of animation and I feel like I'm watching something someone put very little time and effort into.
" It's more the fans than the actual material that I dislike. You guys might be normal, but take a step back and just look at anime fans as a whole. "
What would you define as normal? I for one may not seem normal to many people, but to other anime fans I am. "
Normal people can function in society and can relate to people about things other than anime/japan. They have hobbies that don't involve watching fansubs or translations of scans or anything like that. "
Yeah these normal people spend their time watching Reality TV and wondering when LadyGaga is going to finally reveal her pre-op penis. Great world you normal people have made for yourselves. Keep it, it's yours.
" It's more the fans than the actual material that I dislike. You guys might be normal, but take a step back and just look at anime fans as a whole. "
What would you define as normal? I for one may not seem normal to many people, but to other anime fans I am. "
Normal people can function in society and can relate to people about things other than anime/japan. They have hobbies that don't involve watching fansubs or translations of scans or anything like that. "
You do realize that there are a lot of people that would consider it abnormal to care about video games to the point of posting on internet message boards dedicated to the subject and attending conventions like PAX, right?
" @SeriouslyNow: So you've totally proved you're not "The Smug Internet Guy". Hooray, you're non conformist and edgy. "
Wait, so because I dislike the current downward trends in 'normal' societal values, I'm labelled as non conformist and edgy? Whatever floats your boat I guess.
" @Wes899: There are tons of people that are hardcore into anime that can do all of the things you mentioned. "
Really, tons? "
Yes, just because you go to Anime conventions and cosplay doesn't mean you can't function I the real world. I do both those things and I am a fully functional person.
I just wish everyone who liked anime could do so in their little corner and we'd stop talking about it. I have no interest in anime, but to be honest the discussion about "why do people hate anime" and "I hate anime" annoys me far more than the actual anime itself does.
@ChristOnIce: No, I am implying that American cinema and literature can produce works just as insipid as anything else. Sure, we have The Godfather and Lord of the Rings, but we also have Meet the Spartans and Batman & Robin.
" I just wish everyone who liked anime could do so in their little corner and we'd stop talking about it. I have no interest in anime, but to be honest the discussion about "why do people hate anime" and "I hate anime" annoys me far more than the actual anime itself does. "
Why can't people who hate Anime do so in their little corner?
Looks exactly the same to me and exactly as you described all anime looking like!
Edit: Also, I'm not trying to say there isn't anime like you described, but that's not the stuff you should judge anime as a whole by. "
So you picked examples from the 5% of anime that doesn't look like what I described, which is the other 95%. Grats. That's some great work there.
I see no reason why I can't judge it by the 95%.
"
Most romances have romance in them. What's your point? Anime is made in a single country and has a specific creative pipeline, hence its more homogeneous than something people all over the world participate in. The real fallacy here is separating anime from animation. Why should you expect the same amount of variety you get in movies from a fucking sub-sub genre? No other genre gets this kind of scrutiny, and really no other genre is so parsed and segregated needlessly as anime. Its animated. Sometimes there's drama, sometimes there's action, whatever. There are visual consistencies, kind of like how America does and Europe does. Similarities end there. Should there be a new genre made for the pointy style common now in American cartoons and popularized by Batman? Because if you parsed that made up genre, you would have Batman and Justice League then 200 Saturday Morning action cartoons that suck. So then fools like you would be in the precarious position of calling a show like Batman shitty by lopping it together arbitrarily with some other shit that happens to be made in the same country and happens to resemble the art style and creating a genre that really isn't a genre. That wouldn't be fair to the good shows that happen to share some cosmetic similarities with the shit shows, would it? No it wouldn't. And you'd be calling Batman shitty, and that would be shitty and inaccurate. And people like you would be dismissing Batman without even trying it, because its pointy like Ben 10 so it probably sucks. And then your stupid logic tricked you out of seeing a great show. In a world that made some fucking sense these shows would be segregated by their theme, so just like you wouldn't watch high school date drama Degrassi now the anime that's basically the same shit is put in the same category. So now you can't hate action movies because they're live action like Degrassi, which is basically what you're doing here with your blanket statement.
Melodrama is terrible art. Anime = Japanese melodrama.
Japan overall has a bizarre, surreal culture that helps make anime even more ridiculous. Its terrible that, because of Japanese culture, a majority of the female characters haev enormous breasts and are none too shy about being so...fucking...annoying about it.
Which brings me to my major ahtred of anime: Childish depictions of sexuality.
With a character like Bayonetta, the sexuality is empowering and very dominatrix-esque in a non-torture porn style where she is a stronger character and has no worries about doing her "stripper moves" as Ryan has called them, making the viewer nonplussed by it. However, anime girls (besides very few exceptions, like Suzuka from Outlaw Star) generally have a very 10-year old Japanese boy characterization of sex and women. So, in accordance, all the females of early anime, and popular modern anime, are always very flagrant about their huge tits but are also very shy in character, and are almost "dominated" by the males of the shows, novels, whatever.
So in a polar opposite of Bayonetta, where we are comfortable with her as a super sexualized character, anime girls are really embarassing in their hyper-stylized sexuality and tension of opposites in the same damn character and I think that's the main turn-off (at least for me) for anime...make strong and less breast-asized female characters, a la Outlaw Star (minus that shitty cat chick, whose name I'm blanking on).
" I just wish everyone who liked anime could do so in their little corner and we'd stop talking about it. I have no interest in anime, but to be honest the discussion about "why do people hate anime" and "I hate anime" annoys me far more than the actual anime itself does. "
Why can't people who hate Anime do so in their little corner? "
Generally people who hate like to do it in the open and tell as many people as possible. That being said I am not condoning the actions of hating anything. Hate is generally useless, but it can spawn creativity in a few situations.
I also guess society is running out of groups to generally hate. Racism, homophobia, those kinds of things are becoming less and less accepted. Hating something as a group helps establish group identity.
This post is probably going to look retarded when I read it tomorrow. I should really stay off the internet when it is 3 AM.
" Melodrama is terrible art. Anime = Japanese melodrama. Japan overall has a bizarre, surreal culture that helps make anime even more ridiculous. Its terrible that, because of Japanese culture, a majority of the female characters haev enormous breasts and are none too shy about being so...fucking...annoying about it. Which brings me to my major ahtred of anime: Childish depictions of sexuality. With a character like Bayonetta, the sexuality is empowering and very dominatrix-esque in a non-torture porn style where she is a stronger character and has no worries about doing her "stripper moves" as Ryan has called them, making the viewer nonplussed by it. However, anime girls (besides very few exceptions, like Suzuka from Outlaw Star) generally have a very 10-year old Japanese boy characterization of sex and women. So, in accordance, all the females of early anime, and popular modern anime, are always very flagrant about their huge tits but are also very shy in character, and are almost "dominated" by the males of the shows, novels, whatever. So in a polar opposite of Bayonetta, where we are comfortable with her as a super sexualized character, anime girls are really embarassing in their hyper-stylized sexuality and tension of opposites in the same damn character and I think that's the main turn-off (at least for me) for anime...make strong and less breast-asized female characters, a la Outlaw Star (minus that shitty cat chick, whose name I'm blanking on). "
@ryanwho: What are you talking about? You're right, most romances do have a lot of romance. And I don't like romances for that reason. There aren't visual consistencies in American animation. Batman TAS doesn't look like The Simpsons. The Simpsons doesn't look like South Park. South Park doesn't look like Family Guy. Family Guy doesn't look like Rug Rats. Rug Rats doesn't look like Doug. Doug doesn't look like ExoSquad. ExoSquad doesn't look like TaleSpin. TaleSpin doesn't look like Hey Arnold. Hey Arnold doesn't look like TMNT.
Anime usually looks the same. And I happen to dislike the aesthetic they chose to go with. And I don't like tentacle rape. And I don't like dick girls. And I don't like sparkly fields of hyperspace where people throw pokeballs. And I don't like super deformed bullshit. So I don't like anime. That's what's with my disdain for it. It's that simple.
Anime just isn't worth my time. Western cinema/television is far superior when it comes to crafting a good story and telling that story in a compelling way. There also exists much more variety in western story telling. For example, when you think of anime there are only a handful of archetypes and stories told/presented. In my opinion anime is a waste of time when there exists a wealth of high quality cinema. Aside from this, why should anyone have to justify their preferences anyway? I cant believe I just wasted sixty seconds on this thread.
" I just wish everyone who liked anime could do so in their little corner and we'd stop talking about it. I have no interest in anime, but to be honest the discussion about "why do people hate anime" and "I hate anime" annoys me far more than the actual anime itself does. "
Why can't people who hate Anime do so in their little corner? "
Um, the title of this thread is "So what is with the distain for anime?" The OP asked for this, frankly.
Actually, that's one of the few anime films that I wasn't talking about. I thought that most anime fans would know which series I'm talking about. Miyazaki's keeping the especially good anime spirit alive in a sea of crap. In fact, Miyazaki films are quite the contrar of what I was hatin' on. Thanks for reminding me for future posts.
" I just wish everyone who liked anime could do so in their little corner and we'd stop talking about it. I have no interest in anime, but to be honest the discussion about "why do people hate anime" and "I hate anime" annoys me far more than the actual anime itself does. "
Why can't people who hate Anime do so in their little corner? "
Um, the title of this thread is "So what is with the distain for anime?" The OP asked for this, frankly. "
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